Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine

[thorbiorn]

If the warhead of the Oreshnik is very, very hot, how much heat might it hold? Since it most likely consists of different components, we would need to know the specific heat capacity of each and how warm they are. While some may reach a temperature of 3900, that is most likely not all. It is complicated to evaluate the total amount of stored heat in the missile on impact, but worth trying.

Using this calculator I found some values for the heat capacity of common materials:
Ice at -10 C (solid): 2.05 J/g*K
Water at 25 C: 4.1813 J/g*K
Water at 100 C (gas): 2.05 J/g*K
Animal tissue: 3.5 J/g*K (A body contains mostly water, though for humans it depends on sex and constitution, women are on average less watery, and so are people with a significant fatty tissue percentage. )

The values for metals are compared to the heat capacity of water low, mostly:
Tungsten: 0.134 J/g*K
Uranium: 0.116 J/g*K
Armour penetrating ammunition can be made from heavy metals similar to the two above.

As tank armour improved during World War II, anti-vehicle rounds began to use a smaller but dense penetrating body within a larger shell, firing at a very-high muzzle velocity. Modern penetrators are long rods of dense material like tungsten or depleted uranium (DU) that further improve the terminal ballistics.

Lead (solid) 0.127 J/g*K
Bismuth (solid) 0.133 J/g*K
Silver: 0.233 J/g*K
Copper (solid): 0.385 J/g*K
Steel (solid): 0.466 J/g*K
Titanium (solid) 0523 J/g*K
Aluminium (solid): 0.897 J/g*K
Sodium (solid): 1.23 J/g*K
Lithium (solid): 3.58 J/g*K
Lithium at 181 C (liquid): 4.379 J/g*K

Then there is are the heat capacity of non-metals:
Glass, silica (solid): 0.84 J/g*K
Diamond: 0.509 J/g*K
Brick (solid): 0.84 J/g*K

Air (at sea level): 1.00 J/g*K (The mass of 1 liter of air at 15 C is listed as 1.255 g. Air consists mainly of nitrogen and oxygen and the values of both are similar, but with the first being slightly higher than the second)

If ceramic materials are used in the construction of the missiles, it turns out that for some ceramic metals, the heat capacity increases sharply with the temperature, which even to begin with is higher than for many metals. For an idea, compare that of silica with that of tungsten or iron.

The abstract of this paper Thermal Conductivity and Specific Heat Capacity of Different Compositions of Yttria Stabilized Zirconia-Nickel Mixtures reads:

Ceramic-metal composites also known as functionally gradient materials (FGM) are composite materials which are fabricated in order to have a gradual variation of constituent materials’ thermal and mechanical properties so as to have a smooth variation of the material properties in order to improve the overall performance and reduce the thermal expansion mismatch between ceramic and metal. The objective of the study is to determine the thermal properties of various percentage composition of Yttria stabilized zirconia-Nickel mixtures for application as thermal barrier coating materials in automotive turbocharger turbine volute casing. Specific heat capacity of different percentage composition of ceramic-metal powder composite were determined using DSC822 differential scanning calorimeter (Mettle Tolodo, Switzerland) at temperature ranges between 303K to 873K. While the thermal conductivity of the different percentage composition of ceramic-metal composite structures were determined using P5687 Cussons thermal conductivity apparatus (Manchester, UK) which uses one-dimensional steady-state heat conduction principle. The results have indicated that the specific heat capacity of the FGM increases sharply with an increase in temperature while the thermal conductivity of the FGM decreases with an increase in temperature. These results strongly agree with the theoretical and experimental values as well as the rule of mixtures obtainable in literature, which indicated the suitability of these FGM materials for thermal barrier coating applications.

If the thermal conductivity is low at high temperatures, a metal ceramic of the above type would also give off the heat slowly. An everyday example of differences in thermal conductivity between different materials is that we can hold a cup of warm tea more easily if the cup is made of ceramics than if it made of stainless steel, because steel conducts heat better than ceramics. Although on its own the heat conductivity is low of metal ceramics what happens if they are crushed and mixed with other components on impact?

Using the data to calculate the accumulated heat energy in a 100 kg warhead
I am not sure about how to make a good model, using the data above, to evaluate the accumulated heat energy in the warhead, because there is so much we don't know, but what is lost from trying? So here we go:

Assume first that the warhead has a mass of 100 kg (100,000 g) and an average heat capacity of 1 J/g*K which is higher than one would expect for many metals and silica, but still includes the possibility of a sharp increased heat capacity of some ceramic metals.
Next assume that the average temperature of the warhead is 1000 C above the temperature of the environment, this is more than most electronics can sustain, but if it is well insulated form more hot parts, who knows?

Inserting these numbers using the formula for heat, we can estimate the stored energy,
Q = mc ΔT where, Q= heat, m = mass of the body, c = specific heat, and ΔT = temperature difference.
This gives inserting the previous values,
Q=100,000g * 1J/g*K * 1000K
The above gives
Q = 100,000,000 J which can also be written as 100 *10^6 J or 100 MJ
If we add 100 MJ of stored heat energy to the estimated kinetic energy of 200 MJ, as estimated in the earlier post, there is a total of 300 MJ. It is enough to evaporate all the water in a body, about 150 MJ according to this calculation of the energy assuming the initial temperature is 37 degrees.
The Specific Heat Capacity of water is approximately 4.185 J/g°C
From 37 to 100 degrees C, there are 63 degrees, one gram of water at 37 degrees heated to 100 would require 63*4.185 J/g°C=264 J
Add to this the energy needed to evaporate the water 2260 J
From 37 degrees Celsius to vapor requires 2524 J For one kg we need, 2.524 MJ
Assuming the body of a man consists of 60 % water and the person weighs a 100 kg then there would be 60 kg to evaporate. This would require 60* 2.524 MJ or roughly 150 MJ, and half for a person of 50 kg (30 kg of water).

However it is not sufficient for an outright cremation. allegedly 1,400 -2,500 MJ according to this Quora answer

This ends all the calculations and estimates. From future observations it will be possible to make adjustments, but already now there is a rough idea.

Reflection
After the process of working on the problem, I woke up wondering if there actually are people in power, in the military industrial complex, and among active duty officers who would press for provoking Russia just to make sure it shows more cards, including using the weapons it has, some of which they are unable to create themselves, but would like to copy and make too? No matter the underlying motives, in the process of pressing for escalation they cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands fo people, and risk the lives of millions and billions. They are completely irresponsible.

 

[taratai]

If that theory is correct, it is strange that Putin is making it easier to blame impacts on Russia by comparing the impact of the Oreshnik to a large meteor:

It's not strange if he's not aware of an incoming meteor bombardment. I don't think many people in power have even a faintest clue about it, and those who are aware, don't know when exactly it can happen. It might not happen in our lifetimes, or it might happen in a year or two.

Plus, he is influenced by higher density forces and/or picking up traces of information about incoming meteors just as much as everyone else. He is not a god. And he might get glimpses from the future without realizing it.

However it is not sufficient for an outright cremation. allegedly 1,400 -2,500 MJ according to this Quora answer

We know about cases where people got completely dustified in their homes, leaving no trace other than a charred spot, and sometimes their feet on the ground: spontaneous human combustion. And that involves electric current, which causes plasma.

To me, Putin talking about dustification and meteor-like behavior confirms that plasma is indeed at work here, which means that, unless someone here is good at plasma physics, we have absolutely no clue what the impact of such projectile would be. Perhaps the point of it is that it doesn't even require an active warhead to cause massive destruction - the plasma somehow causes the destructive force (which might also involve creating brief bleedthroughs, similar to meteors).

Perhaps we'll know for sure when this weapon is used again...

 

[Cosmos]

Putin also stated something I haven’t thought about but which makes sense:

When I speak of improvement, it primarily concerns the balance between range and warhead.

The greater the range, the smaller the warhead; conversely, the shorter the range, the more potent the warhead. The system is capable of lifting a greater payload in this scenario, that’s the crux of it. For targets at varying distances, different missile types are required, or at least, distinct configurations of these missiles, specifically the warhead equipment. This is an area requiring attention. It is not a straightforward task, and it will likely necessitate additional research and development work, etc.

So it looks like: If the amount of warheads is the same in two different Oreshnik missiles, that the one that is targeting a target that is further away then the other, that the weight of the warheads in that missile is then reduced and therefore the destructiveness compared to the other one is reduced as well. But since it seem like one Oreshnik missile can hold/deliver up to 36 warheads that you can get around that by reducing that number while making the remaining ones heavier: So you can make one single warhead more destructive at long ranges with the downside that you have less warheads to deliver/deploy in one missile.

 

[Cosmos]

I'd say the anti-gravity tech's purpose is to get the missile to hypersonic speed as fast as possible after launch, thereby making it much more difficult to shoot down. The weakness of standard ICBMs is that they take time after launch to reach hypersonic speed, making them vulnerable to shoot-down.

That would be my guess as well. If so, that might be one reason why other countries don’t come even close to those speeds and destructive capabilities and that the Russians are rather confident that it will take them quite a while to catch up.

 

[thorbiorn]

This ends all the calculations and estimates. From future observations it will be possible to make adjustments, but already now there is a rough idea.

To me, Putin talking about dustification and meteor-like behavior confirms that plasma is indeed at work here, which means that, unless someone here is good at plasma physics, we have absolutely no clue what the impact of such projectile would be. Perhaps the point of it is that it doesn't even require an active warhead to cause massive destruction - the plasma somehow causes the destructive force (which might also involve creating brief bleedthroughs, similar to meteors).

Perhaps we'll know for sure when this weapon is used again...

I had not seen the released pictures before I posted the estimates, but the rough idea and calculations must be wrong by one or more orders of magnitude. The estimates may not be entirely wrong by themselves and seen from a classical perspective, just as they may help to argue for the position that the new weapons are indeed extraordinary. From the pictures and the size of the craters it might be possible to evaluate the involved energy. For that we need to know a bit more.

 

[msasa79]

That would be my guess as well. If so, that might be one reason why other countries don’t come even close to those speeds and destructive capabilities and that the Russians are rather confident that it will take them quite a while to catch up.

Remember some time ago when there was quite a stir in the West that Russians were testing and developing satellite-killer weapons and missiles? Those could have been the tests for Oreshnik-base carriers, where the carrier sort of a rocket reaches extra high altitudes (possibly by the use of anti-gravity tech) and now, there in the low density medium, releases the aerodinamically shaped smaller nuts/missiles to essentially free-fall like meteorites to the ground. Just by sheer free-falling, with no initial speed whatsoever, excluding the air resistance, from mid LEO altitudes of 1000 km, the object/projectile would reach cca Mach 13 (13 times speed of sound in the air) when hitting the ground (online calculator), regardless of its mass. In that sense it would really be like a meteorite.
FWIW.

 

[Lucius]

In that sense it would really be like a meteorite.

Putin compares Russia’s new missile to meteorite​

The Oreshnik is capable of penetrating heavily fortified complexes, the president has warned

Russian President Vladimir Putin. © Sputnik/Ramil Sitdikov
The strike power of Russia’s new state-of-the-art Oreshnik ballistic missile is similar to a meteorite impact, President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday. The hypersonic weapon is capable of successfully hitting heavily fortified targets, he added.

Moscow already has several such missiles at its disposal and has begun mass production of the advanced weapon system, Putin told a summit of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) in Kazakhstan’s capital, Astana.

“This is like a falling meteorite. We know from history where meteorites had fallen and what the consequences were. What lakes were formed,” the Russian leader said.

Putin did not elaborate, although one of the world’s largest impact crater lakes – Lake Manicouagan in Canada – has a multiple-ring structure with a diameter amounting to some 100km. Its inner ring diameter is around 70km.

The Oreshnik system also has dozens of homing warheads capable of hitting targets while traveling ten times faster than the speed of sound, Putin stated.

A massive strike with such missiles would be comparable to a nuclear blast, he added. “Anything located in the strike center is obliterated into elemental particles, reduced to dust,” the president said.

The Russian military is selecting targets for potential Oreshnik strikes, Putin warned. The system could be used in retaliation against the “Kiev regime” if Ukrainian attacks against Russia using Western-provided long-range missiles and data continue, he added.

READ MORE: Oreshnik missiles could be used to strike Kiev – Putin
These targets could include Ukrainian “decision-making centers” as well as military and industrial facilities, Putin stated. Last week, Russia deployed the Oreshnik missile system to strike a large weapons factory in the Ukrainian city of Dnepropetrovsk (also known as Dnepr in Ukraine), as part of what was called a combat test. According to Putin, the strike was a response to “aggressive actions of NATO members” who back Kiev.

The Ukrainian military has recently launched several strikes against targets in Russia’s Bryansk and Kursk regions, using US-made ATACMS as well as British-French Storm Shadow/SCALP missiles. On Monday, Washington confirmed that it had lifted range restrictions on the use of ATACMS by Kiev’s troops. Paris had earlier confirmed that it would allow Ukraine to use SCALP missiles at their maximum range.

Speaking at the CSTO summit on Thursday, Putin said Moscow’s weapons are superior in several aspects to Western-made missiles. Russia is also producing much more of them than the entire NATO bloc, he stated. The Oreshnik in particular “has no counterparts in the world, of course, and I believe none will appear anytime soon,” the president added

 

[Natus Videre]

The West needs to start building crystal bunkers if it wants to survive an Oreshnik!

Q: (V) In meditation, I saw crystals coming up during Earth changes. Is this what is going to happen?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) How come this crystal didn't shatter or break up during the subsidence of Atlantis?

A: Extraordinarily strong. An atomic bomb would not shatter it. The chain reaction of a thermonuclear explosion would be absorbed into the crystal and transferred into pure energy. That relates to the design function.

For Zelensky, the protection will mostly come from crystal meth.

 

[Nević Nenad]

From what Putin is saying it seems like that one single Oreshnik missile is ejecting, quote “dozens“ of warheads! I previously assumed that they used 6 of those missiles that can be seen in the now famous video, coming to a total of 36 warheads. But it now seems like they maybe just used one missile that “ejected“ 36 warheads!

One missile which caries six warheads in it. When launched and in specific spot in its flight, missiles "opens" and release six warheads (smaller missiles of a sort) and every one of them with six smaller submissions/bomblets, actually bombs in it. When warheads reach needed speed, they release their bombs to the target.

So, first you have big missile for launch and to get all that to desired height and speed, than warheads to reach desired speed in "falling down" (and thats probably higher speed then the whole big missile), and then bomblets for the final approach to the target. Thats 1x6x6=36. And thats also the old concept for the intercontinental (flies from continent to continent) ballistic (flies in parabolic, bow like trajectory) missiles.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Aa far as I understand it, the plasma is consequence of the speed, because of the presurizing of the molecules of air. But as it starts, it also protect the structure from further heating. Nothing to do with impact. Energy released on the impact is only missile mass plus its velocity (speed). Which is kinetic energy. And that can be strengthen with various types of explosive loads, all the way to the nuclear one. So, you can have only kinetic (impact) energy for piercing and destructing, and then also the real detonation from the explosive warhead.

 

[Jtucker]

If that theory is correct, it is strange that Putin is making it easier to blame impacts on Russia by comparing the impact of the Oreshnik to a large meteor:

Putin compares Russia’s new missile to meteorite

The president has likened the strike power of the Oreshnik ballistic missile to that of a sizeable meteorite impact

www.rt.com

A connection to the specific "meteorite" attributes of Oreshnik mentioned by President Putin reminded me of a post from the Jan.13.2024 Session from Ark where he quotes a Russian book entitled "A Guide To Eternity":

The "Valley of Death" itself stretches along the right tributary of the Vilyu River. If you look at the map of the area, it is a whole chain of valleys along its floodplain. In the last century, the famous researcher Vilyuya R. Maak wrote in his diary: "On the bank of the river "Algy timirnit", which literally means "a large cauldron has sunk", there really is a giant copper cauldron. Its size is unknown, since only the edge is visible above the ground, but several trees grow in it..."

In the proposed search area, Terentyev's group found this boiler and more than one. All the "artifacts" found are completely mysterious structures ranging in size from six to nine meters in diameter, made of a metal similar in color to copper unknown to the search group. But these "copper boilers were not taken" even by a sharpened chisel, which "explored" the walls of the taiga engineering product more than once. The metal did not break off and was not forged. According to the researchers, the hammer would have left noticeable dents or cuts on the copper. But the boilers remained intact even after active "research attacks" on their integrity.

It was also impossible to chip or scratch it. As noted in her reports, the vegetation around these "boilers" is abnormal - it does not look at all like what grows around. It is more lush: large-leaved burdocks, very long vines, strange grass, one and a half to two times taller than a human. Scientists have thoroughly investigated their mysterious find.

One interesting detail is that a large amount of information about the trip was "erased" from the memory of absolutely all members of the expedition. They could not remember the details literally on the eve of the completed work. But the research itself was recorded on paper, in photographs and in tape recordings. It was for them that it was not difficult to prepare accounting documents in Moscow. Terentyev personally took these working materials on the work of the group in the "Valley of Death" to the Russian Security Council and the Federal Security Service. The further fate of the Yakut expedition reports is not known to the authors of this book. But, at one time, there were rumors in narrow circles that scientists from secret laboratories of the special services worked on them, who, after comprehensive research, developed a number of technologies that are used today to create new weapons."

The main Author of the book is Lieutenant-General A. Yu. Savin. "General Savin Aleksey Yurievich is the leader of the Soviet program "Brain Wars".

The above is a summation of only part of the whole "Yakutian Cauldrons" legends/research. There's quite a bit more information out there - especially on Yandex, but I'll outline what's out there if anyone's interested, as it could tie in to some element of Russia's development of "super" weapons.

- Months after the Tunguska explosion, Russian scientists reached the remote Siberian area and interviewed the local Yakutians about what they saw. The Yakutians reported that just as the meteorite swarm appeared, towers of metal emerged from the taiga and released beams or columns of flames that destroyed the incoming swarm. The explosion that destroyed the meteorites caused the flattening of the forests. Anyone nearby was killed or suffered extreme burns.

- The towers then retreated into the ground where the top domes or cauldrons can still be found in the Valley of Death mentioned above.

- Subsequent Russian scientists and explorers sought out the "cauldrons" and some were located and explored. A number of reports have people suffering radiation burns, lost time, disorientation and severe illness when coming in contact with them.

Here's a short YT video overview of the alleged phenomenon:

Siberian Cauldrons

If, as the C's say, there was an ancient advanced Siberian civilization that was aware of the devastating overhead bombardments from space objects it would make sense that they set up some sort of defence system. Would it remain functional, or automated, millennia later? Who knows? Or is it the work of the undergrounders? Could Russian scientists, as mentioned above, have figured out how it works after all these decades of studying it? If it does exist and it is functional, can it take down the new hyper-sonic missiles? Or was the tech borrowed and back engineered in some way that contributed to the development of the Russian missile program?

This is all speculation, of course, but an interesting idea considering how many different threads covered over the years by the C's it touches on.

 

[Joe]

The Oreshnik missile that Russia used against Ukraine last week is likely a modified version of the relatively modern RSM-56 Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missile. The Bulava measures 12m long x 2m diameter and has a max payload of 1150kgs and a range of 8,300kms. The payload weight can be increased by sacrificing operational range.

The Oreshnik was fired from the border with Kazakhstan, about 800kms from the target in Ukraine. So the payload could have been easily increased.

So let's say: 1 missile with 36 "warheads" i.e. 36 pyramidal-shaped pieces of metal (tungsten) weighing, let's say, 100kgs each, for a total of 3.6 tons payload. Distance to target 800kms. 100kgs hitting the ground at 3200m/s = approx. 500megajoules of energy on impact. A US-made 900kg bomb (often used by Israelis in Gaza and Lebanon this year to level apartment blocks) produces approx. 200megajoules of energy on impact.

So a 100kg Oreshnik projectile hitting the ground produces approx. 2.5 times the energetic force of one MK84 1 ton bomb.

36 x 100kg Oreshnik projectiles therefore = the destructive power of almost 80 MK84 bombs. That's about twice the maximum payload of a B-52 bomber.

So the factory in Ukraine was, essentially, hit with the equivalent energy of two fully-laden B-52 bombing runs. And it was done by Russia with ONE missile launch.

Granted, the destruction would be different compared to high explosives, perhaps less wide ranging, but the energy would have been more or less equal.

p.s. 50 cubic centimeters of tungsten weighs 1 ton. So getting heavy objects in there is not a problem. And interestingly, it has a melting point of 3410 C.

 

[youlik]

Honestly, I am very embarrassed to interrupt an exciting discussion of Oreshnik, but my "beloved" Estonians cannot leave me indifferent. After all the "heroic", on the verge of insanity, statements about preventive strikes against Russia and promises to "tear up" the Russian army, the genuine plan of the Estonians for a potential conflict with Russia is finally beginning to manifest itself.

Estonia has announced its plan of war with Russia: evacuate its entire population abroad and blow up cities

Estonia has announced its plan of war with Russia — to quickly blow up everything and flee to Finland.

"Major General Andrus Merilo: "We must be ready to evacuate people outside the danger zone, and in the worst case, the danger zone covers the whole of Estonia. If necessary, the Estonian army itself will begin to destroy Estonian cities.

For example, in Narva, you need to be prepared for the fact that the urban infrastructure and streets will become impassable for the enemy. Whether we like it or not, if a war breaks out between NATO and Russia, due to our geographical location, fighting will begin in our area. Estonia is a border country. If a war breaks out, we will still lose one thing or another — people, infrastructure, territory.”

Finland would be the most logical country to escape from, as Estonia has a close maritime connection with Finland. Latvia's southern neighbor will be a less likely evacuation target, because if Russia attacks Estonia, it will probably attack Latvia as well.

The Rail Baltic railway crossing the Baltic could transport civilians to Central Europe, but it will not be completed until the next decade."

https://rusvesna.su/news/1732887572

It is not only Estonians who are fleeing. Ukrops are just now beginning (I hope) to practice the Estonian plan.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine are fleeing from the front in whole units, sometimes even in the middle of a battle, the Associated Press news agency reports.

"The main thing is that they leave combat positions during the fighting, and their comrades die because of this," the publication points out.

"We had several situations when detachments fled, small or large. They exposed their flanks, and the enemy came out on these flanks and killed their brothers in arms, because those who stood in positions did not know that there was no one around," the Ukrainian official admitted in an interview with reporters.

That's how in October, in a matter of weeks, the APU left the city of Ugledar. There are times when some deserters return, but only to escape again soon.

https://rusvesna.su/news/1732871380

Spoiler: Russian spelling

Мне, честное слово, очень неловко прерывать захватывающее обсуждение Орешника, однако мои "любимые" эстонцы не могут меня оставить равнодушным. После всех "героических", на грани безумия, заявлений о превентивных ударах по России и обещаний "порвать" российскую армию, наконец то начинает проявляться подлинный план эстонцев на потенциальный конфликт с Россией.
Бегут не только эстонцы. Укропы как раз сейчас начинают (я надеюсь) на практике отрабатывать эстонский план.

 

[Natus Videre]

Honestly, I am very embarrassed to interrupt an exciting discussion of Oreshnik, but my "beloved" Estonians cannot leave me indifferent. After all the "heroic", on the verge of insanity, statements about preventive strikes against Russia and promises to "tear up" the Russian army, the genuine plan of the Estonians for a potential conflict with Russia is finally beginning to manifest itself.

Stress can drive people mad, especially when psychopaths are in the driver's seat. Your "beloved" Estonians would benefit from our "ballistic" discussion just like Putin would benefit from hyperbaric treatments!

Q: (Joe) Does Putin have any kind of significant chronic illness?

A: No. Just stress. He would also benefit from hyperbaric treatments!