Questions About Objectivity

[FRV]

I tried to pick the best thread for this to fall under but please move if this is not an appropriate fit.

After reading more on https://paleochristianity.org/documents/FOTCM_Statement_of_Principles.pdf
and reading more on this forum website in general I am starting to witness a blind spot of mine and would like to ask for feedback if possible from anyone.

Please keep in mind the below WAS my train of thought while being brutally honest and I am now shifting out of that line of thinking due to an intake of information. I am still open to people pointing out further blind spots in the below line of thinking/feeling because as we all know it takes work, time, and effort to peel away the layers and just because I've had a deep realization right now does not mean this will completely stick without the feedback and proper action to integrate new beliefs it into one's being.

I was turned off from this "object and rational only" view of FOTCM and Laura's work because it left me rather confused. What separates us from a robots if all we care about is the cold hard truth of objectivity and rationality? Why are emotions looked down on, isn't being totally emotionless a sign of sleeping matter and psychopathology? What is so wrong with following your heart?! (I laugh as I type this as I can clearly see how the love/light new age has crept into my belief system). Considering there is beaming and EMF and so much more that effect our emotional state which is often a product of hormones and chemicals there can be a lot "wrong with following one's heart".

What is wrong with subjective experience, do we not become like zombies in a controlled hive mind if we all think in the exact same way, eat in the exact same way? Which is funny I had unconscious beliefs that is what was being pushed when there are MANY threads of Guidance and suggestions for/from Members who remind others there is no one size fits all or quick fixes as individuals require different inputs. Why is there an unconscious fear that this is all a cult? I really do not wish to hold this belief but have come to realize it is there so I must face this harsh reality. I really look up to this forum + the members, Laura, and the books so how is it possible this fear is hidden within?

I have also felt very off about the love/light + new ages beliefs, the only think positively spiritual by passing without The Work being done, only Divine Love Exists (not saying this is wrong but felt off about the angle that love/light and new age comes at it), the whole mainstream "manifest your dream life" rhetoric.

Yet I felt off about viewing life extremally objectively?? How strange because thinking objectively and keeping emotions in check by doing The Work is what felt like what was missing in the new age fluff.

Part of the The Work is facing those unpleasant parts and experiences, being honest with how we contribute to our own downfall and other's which takes observation, honesty, objectivity, grace, and feedback. This resonates with me. I thought something was wrong with me because I have been doing The Work for a very long time but still struggle with depression knowing partly the true state of our world which is ran by psychopaths who are being manipulated by 4D STS for food and other reasons we may or may not know.

This has taken a bit of an unexpected urn as I find myself now struggling to convey what I intended to in the first place. What books on the recommended reading list will help with cultivating an objective and observant outlook both inwards and outwards. I am re reading the wave series but what other books of Laura's do you recommended first? Youtube videos?

Now that I have uncovered this hesitation for objectivity, what are ways members recommended in approaching this in order to cultivate a habit to view objectively instead of subjectively. Does this mean subjective experience is null or rather subjective experience to be viewed WITH objectivity once experience? I am sure MUCH of this is answered as I dive deeper into research so maybe guidance on where to focus my attention and effort on this topic is more appropriate than advice on how to?

Also this hurts too because I do believe I was cultivate an observers mind with objectivity but I can see in ways how I got sucked back into a very emotional subjective experience. I feel quite embarrassed and am worried that I will be looked down on yet this is not what the forum is for, yes there may be harsh truths BUT it is because of the love of the cosmic mind and thus it's creations.

Even suggestions on how to create better posts on this forum would be helpful as well. I feel like I post mainly on here about myself but that isn't really helping in terms of network. Obviously, the first suggestion is to stop posting about myself. When I feel like I can relate to someone's thread/experience is it better to leave that off and try to find some articles that help the topic of the thread continue in discussion, both? Suggestions. I want to become more active but I'd like to become more scientific in thought than personal.

Is what I wrote simply word salad? If so, how can I improve?

edited due to spelling mistakes

 

[Glenn]

Why are emotions looked down on, isn't being totally emotionless a sign of sleeping matter and psychopathology?

Well, no one has said you have to be totally emotionless. But the C's have highlighted limiting emotions...

From,

Session 9 September 1995​

...

Q: (L) So, you are saying that the path to illumination is knowledge and not love?

A: That is correct.

Q: (L) Is it also correct that emotion can be used to mislead, that is emotions that are twisted and generated strictly from the flesh or false programming?

A: Emotion that limits is an impediment to progress. Emotion is also necessary to make progress in 3rd density. It is natural. When you begin to separate limiting emotions based on assumptions from emotions that open one to unlimited possibilities, that means you are preparing for the next density.

 

[Menna]

Now that I have uncovered this hesitation for objectivity, what are ways members recommended in approaching this in order to cultivate a habit to view objectively instead of subjectively. Does this mean subjective experience is null or rather subjective experience to be viewed WITH objectivity once experience? I am sure MUCH of this is answered as I dive deeper into research so maybe guidance on where to focus my attention and effort on this topic is more appropriate than advice on how to?

Well sometimes you don’t know what is subjective until time passes and truth is revealed. Memory and non buffering is important so you can remember timelines and happenings…Do you think you choose to turn away from or are hesitant about objectivity because of past trauma when you were objective?

Journaling/writing is important. Create an experiment. Create a month long goal and set out towards it. What takes you away from it. When in you helps you accomplish it. Knowing yourself and reality is a way to sift through subjective ness, programming or things in you that don’t serve you.

You have to be able to see objectivity and be aware enough to recognize it. Through programming buffering and sacred cows it is harder for one to see objectivity as there are illusions and assumption in oneself that takes one farther away from B influences and keeps one in A influences (subjective)

Regarding EMF and all that I unplug my wi fi at night and plug it back in - in the morning. One can also sleep in a faraday cage or on a grounding/PEMF Mat … this things help me along with brain hemisphere synchronization…

 

[Anthony]

Now that I have uncovered this hesitation for objectivity, what are ways members recommended in approaching this in order to cultivate a habit to view objectively instead of subjectively. Does this mean subjective experience is null or rather subjective experience to be viewed WITH objectivity once experience? I am sure MUCH of this is answered as I dive deeper into research so maybe guidance on where to focus my attention and effort on this topic is more appropriate than advice on how to?

Subjectivity exists within a broader context which is objective reality. Both are necessary and cannot be done without, though reality should always take precedent over our subjective whims. Being objective does not mean being emotionless or relying purely on reason (none of which is possible to begin with), so your hesitation about it might be more about the view you have about it. It's not a robotic mode of being and far from it, as it involves loving/knowing something above yourself.

This has taken a bit of an unexpected urn as I find myself now struggling to convey what I intended to in the first place. What books on the recommended reading list will help with cultivating an objective and observant outlook both inwards and outwards. I am re reading the wave series but what other books of Laura's do you recommended first? Youtube videos?

The Wave series would be the best place to start and there's also: Recommended books: List and Guide.

 

[Ina]

Read, live, observe inwards and outwards, make up your mind, stick around or not, and Repeat.
Doesn’t matter where you start. Trust and follow the process.

 

[nicklebleu]

Doesn’t matter where you start.

I think that‘s a very important point … take any thread, pull at it, and it will reveal an aspect of reality to you. Take another thread, the same will happen. Over time you will come to realise, that everything is connected in weird and wonderful ways, you will be able to ’connect the dots’.

Objectivity and subjectivity, emotions and intellect, all of them need to be harmoniously enmeshed to give us the best representation of reality, one doesn’t work without the other.

 

[placematt]

Afternoon FRV, appreciate your post!
I think for me, the big question i ask myself is do I trust my own thinking? generally the answer is no. And so I ask, if I don’t trust my thinking, can I trust my ability to see, observe and make good choices. Im certainly getting better at this and the forum has been a huge part of that. I think because of the focus on objectivity
it’s sort of this invitation to listen, learn and receive feedback which you have talked about.

In terms of where to start, I think making peace that it’s a life long process and maybe following your intuition. What are you biggest challenges and struggles, and the recommended reading list linked above is a great place to map out how you want to approach those issues from a number of different angles.

 

[FRV]

Thank you all for your input, it will be useful :)

 

[Liliea]

What is wrong with subjective experience, do we not become like zombies in a controlled hive mind if we all think in the exact same way, eat in the exact same way? Which is funny I had unconscious beliefs that is what was being pushed when there are MANY threads of Guidance and suggestions for/from Members who remind others there is no one size fits all or quick fixes as individuals require different inputs. Why is there an unconscious fear that this is all a cult? I really do not wish to hold this belief but have come to realize it is there so I must face this harsh reality. I really look up to this forum + the members, Laura, and the books so how is it possible this fear is hidden within?

Experiences as such are always subjective which means that they do not allow you to see from other points of view, if you have prejudices or tendentious thoughts imposed by unconscious programs or incorrect thoughts these will only limit the real-reality of the event that is why it is necessary to share to "overcome" the subjectivity and be able to think clearly, then you must overcome this clarity with more objectivity.

Most "Zombies" do not think for themselves (what we call thinking with a hammer) because their subjective and emotional experience is accepted by others and is comfortable, that leads them to believe in lies and divide people into their "equalities" which is why they do not accept the basically objective.

Unconscious fear is faced with knowledge (There is a thread on the subject), however a good symptom of a cult is one that does not allow you to think for yourself when you believe it does, so it is necessary once again, to be very objective prepare yourself with intelligence, intuition, wisdom before becoming a member of a "cult" so that they do not restrict you in your free will as Los Cass say
It is up to you.

 

[FRV]

Experiences as such are always subjective which means that they do not allow you to see from other points of view, if you have prejudices or tendentious thoughts imposed by unconscious programs or incorrect thoughts these will only limit the real-reality of the event that is why it is necessary to share to "overcome" the subjectivity and be able to think clearly, then you must overcome this clarity with more objectivity.

Most "Zombies" do not think for themselves (what we call thinking with a hammer) because their subjective and emotional experience is accepted by others and is comfortable, that leads them to believe in lies and divide people into their "equalities" which is why they do not accept the basically objective.

Unconscious fear is faced with knowledge (There is a thread on the subject), however a good symptom of a cult is one that does not allow you to think for yourself when you believe it does, so it is necessary once again, to be very objective prepare yourself with intelligence, intuition, wisdom before becoming a member of a "cult" so that they do not restrict you in your free will as Los Cass say
It is up to you.

I appreciate your response.

Why is there an unconscious fear that this is all a cult

What I have discovered about my above fear is a projection of how there is a part of me that may think critically, with a hammer as the forum says, BUT this is still very underdeveloped and needs more deep nurturing. I see now the fear comes from me unconsciously absorbing information as "truth" "wisdom" and "knowledge" without being vigilant and properly diligent. That's why this there a feeling of "cultish vibes" for lack of a better term, it was due to my projection of blindly taking in the Cassieopean transcripts and The Wave as "Truth" at a subconscious level even though I thought I was taking it with a grain of salt. I see this clearly now that there is a bit too much openness in wanting to find "The Truth" and a need for a much more objective perspective. As Laura (I believe but could be wrong) said in one of the books "Think with an open yet critical mind."

I also read a pdf from the FOTCM website that mentions being objective does not mean we do not see the negativity or evil but we approach it from an objective perspective to see an expanded view than viewing it from a limited space of reactive emotions.

Thank you again for your thoughtful response

 

[FRV]

Afternoon FRV, appreciate your post!
I think for me, the big question i ask myself is do I trust my own thinking? generally the answer is no. And so I ask, if I don’t trust my thinking, can I trust my ability to see, observe and make good choices. Im certainly getting better at this and the forum has been a huge part of that. I think because of the focus on objectivity
it’s sort of this invitation to listen, learn and receive feedback which you have talked about.

This helps me understand the value of networking as well, if we cannot completely trust our own thinking it is important to align with others on the objective path to help us see blind spots as we all have them. As I feel into some toxic/unhealthy mainstream "spiritual" views such as doing everything alone. I am thankful to be coming out of an isolated mindset that I was somewhat unaware I even had. Ahh the power of community. The power of being in network with an ALIGNED community.

In terms of where to start, I think making peace that it’s a life long process and maybe following your intuition. What are you biggest challenges and struggles, and the recommended reading list linked above is a great place to map out how you want to approach those issues from a number of different angles

Oh yes, it's a lifelong process that probably expands into other lifetimes we have/will/are experiencing. I suppose my questions were a bit unclear. I am overwhelmed by the reading list and not sure where to start but that is up to me and I will let my intuition guide me. adjust with knowledge as needed.

Thanks again for your input!

 

[FRV]

Well, no one has said you have to be totally emotionless. But the C's have highlighted limiting emotions...

From,

Session 9 September 1995​

...

Q: (L) So, you are saying that the path to illumination is knowledge and not love?

A: That is correct.

Q: (L) Is it also correct that emotion can be used to mislead, that is emotions that are twisted and generated strictly from the flesh or false programming?

A: Emotion that limits is an impediment to progress. Emotion is also necessary to make progress in 3rd density. It is natural. When you begin to separate limiting emotions based on assumptions from emotions that open one to unlimited possibilities, that means you are preparing for the next density.

This is the session I read recently that brought to light my subconscious beliefs as I didn't even realize I was pairing objectivity with being emotionless . What a great sync that you posted this exact part of the session that spoke to me deeply and shook me "awake" so to speak in this specific context . Thanks !

 

[FRV]

Well sometimes you don’t know what is subjective until time passes and truth is revealed. Memory and non buffering is important so you can remember timelines and happenings…Do you think you choose to turn away from or are hesitant about objectivity because of past trauma when you were objective?

Yes, thank-you for reminding me that time is factor and sometimes time will need to pass to see more clearly. Reminds me of something I read in a book recently about someone dropping something in water and everyone looking for it caused ripples and the mud to dirty the water making it hard to see anything let alone the item dropped. The people were instructed to step out and wait. Let the water settle before going to look for the dropped item again. Time had to pass for the mud to settle. Once it did they found the item right away. This is a great metaphor for what you speak of "until time passes and truth is revealed"

Journaling/writing is important. Create an experiment. Create a month long goal and set out towards it. What takes you away from it. When in you helps you accomplish it. Knowing yourself and reality is a way to sift through subjective ness, programming or things in you that don’t serve you.

I used to journal a lot. Stopped and have started again recently. I look forward to bringing this suggestion into my journaling. Thanks!

You have to be able to see objectivity and be aware enough to recognize it. Through programming buffering and sacred cows it is harder for one to see objectivity as there are illusions and assumption in oneself that takes one farther away from B influences and keeps one in A influences (subjective)

Regarding EMF and all that I unplug my wi fi at night and plug it back in - in the morning. One can also sleep in a faraday cage or on a grounding/PEMF Mat … this things help me along with brain hemisphere synchronization…

Again the importance of networking is being displayed through what you typed. I have to do The Work myself but it doesn't have to be an isolated journey, having others to help and also helping others expands all of us at an exponential rate than doing it alone. As we cannot see all our blind spots without mirrors (each other)

Thanks for the suggestions for EMF !! I will look into this further

 

[Honzap]

Emotions have been addressed already.

Another thing is that there can hardly be any objectivity if your own internal and also external programming stands in the way or downright prevents it. Recommended reading is a place to start. Know your machine.

At the beginning I would read a page from any of the psychological books and had to periodically come back to re-read parts, because I would forget what it was about in the middle. My mind had to be "trained" to absorb this type of knowledge. It took a while. Now with that out of the way different challenges manifested in terms of the implications to myself, my own programming, so coming to terms with it and making adjustments is a huge undertaking.

The more you know your own machine and the more you eliminate or neutralize your harmful programs, the more objective your view of reality will become.

 

[Menna]

I think when something happens an event including variables like people or relationships or business or anything likened to these things there are different segments of objectivity and then a macro objectivity of everything.

For example: If I run a business and a customer is being loud and cursing in my store. I get emotionally upset and push physically the customer out AND call police.

It is objective to say that my emotional center is not clean I over reacted and my emotional center has a strong hold on my intellectual center that controls my rational decision making. It’s also objective that the customer was being inappropriate in my place of business and it wasn’t warranted. Those two dynamics are objective and then there is the objective ness of how to properly handle the situation within proper reality… but there are different realities based on where this examples take place. I know if you take pictures inside a persons business in some cultures you can be physically harmed and arrested.

Objectivity considers EVERYTHING and to do that it takes knowledge, experience, wisdom, time, analysis, thought….

I wouldn’t look at what is objective about 3D earth interactions I would look at what is objective for YOU at your own pace/place and time here and now. What’s objective for you based on your level of being may not be objective for you 4 years from now.

All you really can do is work on yourself and put yourself in the best position within life. If you are dealing with other people and other dynamics objectivity can be hard to pinpoint as others come from different cultures, educations, upbringings and so forth. What’s objective to me being raised in the 90’s in New York May not be what’s objective for someone else being raised in the 70’s in Russia. We are both human but our early experiences might as well put us on two different planets. Objectivity can be subjective when we are talking about objectivity in and for others…

If we are talking about objectivity of a natural or scientific event then it’s easier to pinpoint that happenings but when we include complications such as relationships, business, people and so on…. Well the only objectivity to me is that there are objective differences

Then to get to objectivity with others THEY have to be able to tell the truth when they are ran by their programs and subconscious … it’s objective that it’s hard to find objectivity with others.

To find out objectivity how a fire started or why a volcano erupted 2 + 2 = 4 …. To find out why 3 other people act a certain way 2 + 2 = Dog