re: Unfriending People in Realtime

[Buddy]

Hi Lisa. I'm sorry you're having to experience this apparent psychological reversal by a previous co-worker. I don't know much about people with 'handlers', but I am familiar with how basic beliefs involving personal powerlessness and personal worthlessness can drive similar changes in behavior in some people.

In fact, I've recently finished re-reading A Structural Theory of Narcissism and Psychopathy, having found myself interested in the 'roots' of certain behaviors. As a brief reminder, Wolf and Kohut (though they are speaking mainly in terms of a group) seem to ascribe similar motivations for their thesis as Robert Fritz does in his The Path of Least Resistance: basically feeling helpless and powerless.

But I was also thinking that if you add that to what psychologist Albert Ellis called the "worthless-piece-of-sh*t" syndrome, one might then see how the "victim" of this syndrome could deny this aspect of self--to split off from and project their "bad self" onto some other target--say, all Jews. I can't say for sure, of course, but for all I know, perhaps that "woman who used to date one of the people who were stalking me on the internet" played the key role here? At any rate, this particular pattern is as old as history and knowingly exploited by people in positions to influence others. And he is certainly not going to see it since he's right in the middle of it.

And as if all that weren't enough, there is Gurdjieff and Don Juan explaining how people on a path can come to a point where they do a 180, turning against the 'teacher' or 'joining the petty tyrants.'

You may already know all this, so I just wanted to say thanks for posting your thoughts and feelings. I'm sure it feels bad to experience this kind of thing from people you've worked with. When pressure mounts, more people may experience this phenomena from their 'friends', so don't be sad and disheartened for long.

You have a winner mentality that deserves to be supported all the way, OSIT. :)

 

[Nook]

I'm sorry Lisa that this turned out the way it did and you had to let him go but you did the right thing. And if it can make a difference for him, it still can as the links you've shared with him should still be available for him to see. (on his wall at least)

I also unfriended someone recently. She turned out to be ex-israeli military but I didn't know her all that well, so it's not comparable to you losing your friend.

I was also thinking about revealing the fact that I'm part Jewish (Ashkenazi) on my fb as your Israeli activist friend did but not yet have done so. Kind of waiting for the 'right moment' as there are many people who would probably be very surprised on my friends list and some people from my native country were raised to be racists..

Was also thinking of the Law of Octaves when I read the OP.

Will read more on Hitler and watch the documentary.

 

[lilies]

[..]

In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in ESQUIRE that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

That's what has been bothering me for years. Basically all we do is reacting to actions of psychopaths. Writing articles about mass killings in Middle East and South Africa, studying psychopathic events like 911, pointing out deadly radiation from TSA scanners, reporting nuclear disasters, reporting malevolent political maneuvers, warning of price hikes, food scarcity, food toxicity. Almost all of the news in the world are the result of psychopath action. Our reaction is knee-jerk analysis, reports, trying to figure out who did what, who benefited, writing books about psychopathic history, trying to figure out what really happened, because psychopaths liked to put their imagined history to writing and destroy books containing observations about objective reality.

Genuine action however, born from contemplation about objective reality, writing about exo-political topics, borrowing ideas from a higher order universal intelligence [nobody in his/her whole life had not one out-of-the-box idea like Tesla, really?], finding examples of new technology and writing about it are rare. Things that are new in thought and original in action, totally outside this forced reality that is continually created by Psychopaths, I think are rarely mentioned. Our thinking is preoccupied too much with things psychopaths do and did. These reactions seem mechanical to me. I think more originality is needed in all currently studied fields and pursued activity, to disconnect our minds and deeds more from these people:
"We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.".

 

[anart]

Genuine action however, born from contemplation about objective reality, writing about exo-political topics, borrowing ideas from a higher order universal intelligence [nobody in his/her whole life had not one out-of-the-box idea like Tesla, really?], finding examples of new technology and writing about it are rare. Things that are new in thought and original in action, totally outside this forced reality that is continually created by Psychopaths, I think are rarely mentioned. Our thinking is preoccupied too much with things psychopaths do and did. These reactions seem mechanical to me. I think more originality is needed in all currently studied fields and pursued activity, to disconnect our minds and deeds more from these people:
"We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.".

That's actually quite a twist you're putting on things, lilies. This is where we are - what good would "exo-politics" do us when we are - right now - in the trenches with the real aliens. If we don't understand our own current reality and our own selves - and I mean deeply understand - then we're dead already anyway and have accomplished nothing. You seem to be wanting to turn away from the number one lesson humanity needs to learn at this point in time in order for humanity to overcome it and move on. We, as a species, are exactly where we are right now in this timeline due to the psychopathic influence among us and it is highly likely (if not certain) that this is by design by hyperdimensional forces that benefit from the situation. If we don't learn this one, there is nothing else. Turning away from it because you don't like it and it's not "rewarding enough" for you just means 'they' are never understood by the masses and never stopped by the masses.

It's not just about "studying what they do" - it's about understanding exactly what they are and why they're here and our role in it and how to change it - all of it - and educating as many others as we have breath to educate because without a general understanding and recognition of "them", nothing will ever change. What are you doing to that end? What are you doing that's creative? What are you doing that is illuminating? What are you doing - each and every day - that shines some light on the dreadful condition of humanity and human cognition, emotion and psychic health - as a direct result of these psychopaths that you don't want to "study"?

Apologies if that all sounds too strong to your ears, but this is it - this is the topic of topics - and this is the key to releasing humanity from its death spiral because the psychopathic influence on the human spirit IS the invasion, it IS the exo-politics - it IS the decline and destruction of the human race and it is happening right now.

 

[supriyanoel]

I relate since I have someone who was like a sister growing up. I've had problems regarding comments made referring to Hitler, by her. She had said Hitler had the right idea and I didn't comment further at the time. There were ignorant comments also made regarding the Nordics being superior, which she is one of. The whole "master race" and how she is also of this persuasion. Genetically superior.Superwhite, Superwoman. We were young at the time and ignorant of the reality of who and what Hitler really was. As we grew older we both were interested in this topic, but she always downplayed the horrors of the Nazi's. Its one thing admiring German workmanship in cars and uniforms, but thinking Hitler was a person of real intelligence isn't an option, since his actions prove otherwise. Saying its not about Truth, but Will. says it all to me. Sounds like the master narcissist Crowley.My friend, I believe is a very insecure person who is here to prove her own supremacy by being as near to her idea of perfect as possible. It plays out in rigid self-disipline in regard to eating, working out, never screwing up on the job(she is a homicide detective).She is treated badly by many of the males in the dept. and she is also extremeley attractive in a very proportionate way(was a model) but doesn't compromise and does the right thing,by her standards. Hardly Third Reich material right? Maybe, maybe not. You can eaily see her cavoting with members of the elite and it is this image I believe seduces her, as immature and unrealistic as it seem. As acedemically scoring high I have witnessed the lack she has of being able to absorb horrors of war and rather romanticizing it in a way I can almost descibe as sexual, now that I think of it. It always has to do with men in iniform of either the Third Reich or the Civil war. Which means its personal, or Karmic. She has also revealed an unusually high libido that has been the cause of pain. As I see it it is not the libido itself but a lack of discernment on the partners she chooses and the troulble being the the harnessing and understanding of this energy.She has let these control systems rule her, thus creating much pain, no where to turn . Instead of inward, enter: fundemental christianity! She who had nothing to do with organized religion. A lazy Lutheran. Now a real stew is-a-brewin!And she is becoming lunch for many I'll wager.Being in Florida the churches are on every corner, so she was swept away as I see it. I feel it is only a matter of time till she sees whats really happening there. I grew up with her like a sister and she notices things that most people don't when shes not in pain. I mean we were always junior detectives and didn't follow the usualtenets of childhood.We were very industrious, ran schools for kids on the summer, had bazaars, opened a restaurant. All before we were 12 trs old. So the basis of these comments have nothing to do with critiacal thinking.Still they are not appropriate to me in any way. .She is run by her control systems and is unaware and unwilling to change that. Therein lies the problem I think. My major beef is this resistance. She is afraid to self-examine, and I've witnessed this firsthand. There must be blame put somewhere in a compartment to further alienate her from the true self. That is when I should have been quiet and either just listened or retreated, but I didn't. I finally had it out with her when she became this born-again Christian professing this special relationship with Jesus that I wouldn't understand. I lost and called her an Aryan white supremacist threw out a few expletives, and hung up on her. Well a few years went by and I didn't feel good about the way I left off. I wrote and apologized and also said I didn't take Hitler comments lightly and that I take the holocaust seriously. In fact personally I feel a need to give back, and hope I have to some extent with survivors of the holocaust and their offspring. That is only for me, however. I, myself am not Jewish. I am on speaking terms now with her through letters, as I know there is still a bond of love there. Karma is a funny thing, as ofttimes appearances are deceiving, and hide the underlying cause. Still the cause is truth and there is so much learning on my part to be living that truth by my actions.Had I been living it I may have observed, considered externally and the outcome would of kept peace and balance within me, and realization of allowing the other their own path.He is taking actions that back up his beliefs in no uncertain terms, no matter what the underlying cause. OSIT Its sad but necessary.Attachment and waking up to the realization of an-others diffentness and need to Detach always brings lots of feelings to process and release so we can continue on our own path. Its the allowance of this that determines just how painful its gonna feel. Thank you for bringing this up as it helps me in many many ways to this important connection and lesson.I am definitely the one with a willful agenda here , and my last letter just told her I was here for her. She is now dealing with the care of her mother as I had previously gone through. My investment was more attached I think because of me being an only child, and her having 2 sistersl, who I grew up with also.There is love there. I know it, which is why it is a worthwhile relationship, and the timing will tell. Thanks for letting me get all this out. Sorry for being lengthy.

 

[Nawd]

[..]

In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in ESQUIRE that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

That's what has been bothering me for years. Basically all we do is reacting to actions of psychopaths. Writing articles about mass killings in Middle East and South Africa, studying psychopathic events like 911, pointing out deadly radiation from TSA scanners, reporting nuclear disasters, reporting malevolent political maneuvers, warning of price hikes, food scarcity, food toxicity. Almost all of the news in the world are the result of psychopath action. Our reaction is knee-jerk analysis, reports, trying to figure out who did what, who benefited, writing books about psychopathic history, trying to figure out what really happened, because psychopaths liked to put their imagined history to writing and destroy books containing observations about objective reality.

Genuine action however, born from contemplation about objective reality, writing about exo-political topics, borrowing ideas from a higher order universal intelligence [nobody in his/her whole life had not one out-of-the-box idea like Tesla, really?], finding examples of new technology and writing about it are rare. Things that are new in thought and original in action, totally outside this forced reality that is continually created by Psychopaths, I think are rarely mentioned. Our thinking is preoccupied too much with things psychopaths do and did. These reactions seem mechanical to me. I think more originality is needed in all currently studied fields and pursued activity, to disconnect our minds and deeds more from these people:
"We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.".

Doing the study and speaking of which we speak/write, is what has been called 'the devil is in the details.' Well it tends as well to be inside of us (details/devil).

I don't see many people on this forum in a reactionary state, quite the opposite. It's a study of details to get to "The Truth." And in order to get even a fraction from this truth, one has to dig and study and read.

Objective reality is just that, however to learn to be actually objective is a skill you may still be working on, as are all of us.

IMO.

 

[Buddy]

[..]

In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in ESQUIRE that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

That's what has been bothering me for years. Basically all we do is reacting to actions of psychopaths. Writing articles about mass killings in Middle East and South Africa, studying psychopathic events like 911, pointing out deadly radiation from TSA scanners, reporting nuclear disasters, reporting malevolent political maneuvers, warning of price hikes, food scarcity, food toxicity. Almost all of the news in the world are the result of psychopath action. Our reaction is knee-jerk analysis, reports, trying to figure out who did what, who benefited, writing books about psychopathic history, trying to figure out what really happened, because psychopaths liked to put their imagined history to writing and destroy books containing observations about objective reality.

Interesting post. I recall my thoughts upon reading that arrogant "proclamation of the US Neo-conservatives." I thought something like "Dammit! we'll show you." My thoughts were that we needed to somehow push ourselves up onto the 'cowcatcher' of the reality train (Pirsig). Then we could be at the forefront of whatever is being planned next so that we can warn each other and possibly throw a monkeywrench in certain plans.

Alas, this seems not yet possible.

Genuine action however, born from contemplation about objective reality, writing about exo-political topics, borrowing ideas from a higher order universal intelligence [nobody in his/her whole life had not one out-of-the-box idea like Tesla, really?], finding examples of new technology and writing about it are rare. Things that are new in thought and original in action, totally outside this forced reality that is continually created by Psychopaths, I think are rarely mentioned. Our thinking is preoccupied too much with things psychopaths do and did. These reactions seem mechanical to me. I think more originality is needed in all currently studied fields and pursued activity, to disconnect our minds and deeds more from these people:
"We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.".

Your idea to 'disconnect' doesn't make much sense as a solution, though--at least not in the context of this forum's purpose as I understand it. I 'saw' that if there is a way to achieve what I indicated above, it will be by way of understanding the devil in the details well enough that our pattern recognition circuitry can take over and provide necessary detection and warning notifications. There's the 'quantum' in 'quantum future group', OSIT.

At least, this is my current thinking.

 

[lilies]

What am I doing to that end? As other people, who read Ponerology: everything I can at my level of understanding. My inside opposes oppression and the feeding frenzy that holds this world captive. It would be a dream come true if neighbors and strangers could continue to be kind and peaceful toward each other and not snap and lock up and be constricted. The life environment we have to cope with is twisted to an extent now that is near impossible to live.

By disconnect I mean a mechanical connection between psychopath action [dictating] and knee-jerk reaction of people [following], that needs to be severed. Its as if normal humanity and psychopaths are chained together like two actors on a stage, when one moves, the chains force the other mans limbs to move too.

I may have overly focused my attention on news that introduce added stress factors: environmental catastrophes caused by negligence, market manipulation, taking of lives. It feels so good, when I can read that an oppressing party has to do damage control in the media.

Looking on the world today and seeing that oppressors and their followers have most resources - assets, land, money, etc.. - and our hands are bound, because we have so little yet have to fight them is infuriating.

 

[name]

Only when a chameleon has already marked its prey is when it shows its true colors.

 

[Maya]

There is no need to be sad about him Lisa, he has coosen his path obviouslly..and his lessons... and you know where you stand.
Interfering with him couse of 'good old times' sake or any kind of emotions is selfish - it's STS way of acting I think. At least I see it that way - I had similar situations with my 'ex friends and family' ...and some time I was really sad because of this and then I let go...it's the way it has to be if we want some changes in the world.. :/
Like Istina said - that's probably the way the universe will clean the house... or natural selection in a way that the most objective, honest to oneself and truthfull one will survive and evolve
When we realise oneself from charge of their manipulations, illusions and wishfull thinking we're free (to network and occupy with people who are in same path like we are and sharing the right informations - I see it like fishing, you throw a great bait and if someone recognise that and hunt himself down -and keeps on learning - great job for us - and him !)

You're doing an amazing job here and are a true inspiration to all of us, anyway... rock on ;)

 

[Arwenn]

Re: Unfriending People in Realtime

Hi Lisa,

I empathise with your feelings of loss, hurt & betrayal & thanks for sharing this experience. Its not a nice feeling to be in a situation like this. I guess as Laura states in the Wave series, you never know when Agents of the Matrix can be activated, & those closest to you are most likely the conduits of attack! What a strange reality I find myself slowly waking up to!

There is no need to be sad about him Lisa, he has coosen his path obviouslly..and his lessons... and you know where you stand.
Interfering with him couse of 'good old times' sake or any kind of emotions is selfish - it's STS way of acting I think. At least I see it that way - I had similar situations with my 'ex friends and family' ...and some time I was really sad because of this and then I let go...

You're doing an amazing job here and are a true inspiration to all of us, anyway... rock on ;)

I couldn't have said it better. Entangling yourself further with mutual FB friends, trying to make them see your point of view, perhaps adds to the entropy, creates more misery & hurt for yourself (& hence extracts more 'juice' for the hyperdimensional entities in charge)! Having the courage to cut the bonds of friendship is probably the best thing that you could have done, as obviously no matter how much you try to prove your point, he is under this lady's influence,& has an emotional investment in her. Logic cannot prevail. Refer to the excellent article by Ryan X where he talks about emotional reasoning

"A recent imaging study by psychologist Drew Westen and his colleagues at Emory University provides firm support for the existence of emotional reasoning. Just prior to the 2004 Bush-Kerry presidential elections, two groups of subjects were recruited - fifteen ardent Democrats and fifteen ardent Republicans. Each was presented with conflicting and seemingly damaging statements about their candidate, as well as about more neutral targets... Unsurprisingly, when the participants were asked to draw a logical conclusion about a candidate from the other - "wrong" - political party, the participants found a way to arrive at a conclusion that made the candidate look bad, even though logic should have mitigated the particular circumstances and allowed them to reach a different conclusion. Here's where it gets interesting.

When this "emote control" began to occur, parts of the brain normally involved in reasoning were not activated. Instead, a constellation of activations occurred in the same areas of the brain where punishment, pain, and negative emotions are experienced (that is, in the left insula, lateral frontal cortex, and ventromedial prefrontal cortex). Once a way was found to ignore information that could not be rationally discounted, the neural punishment areas turned off, and the participant received a blast of activation in the circuits involving rewards - akin to the high an addict receives when getting his fix.

Ultimately, Westen and his colleagues believe that "emotionally biased reasoning leads to the 'stamping in' or reinforcement of a defensive belief, associating the participant's 'revisionist' account of the data with positive emotion or relief and elimination of distress. 'The result is that partisan beliefs are calcified, and the person can learn very little from new data,'" Westen says. Westen's remarkable study showed that neural information processing related to what he terms "motivated reasoning" ... appears to be qualitatively different from reasoning when a person has no strong emotional stake in the conclusions to be reached.

The study is thus the first to describe the neural processes that underlie political judgment and decision making, as well as to describe processes involving emote control, psychological defense, confirmatory bias, and some forms of cognitive dissonance. The significance of these findings ranges beyond the study of politics...

 

[Maya]

We're all castaways in the stormy 3D ocean of ignorance....
those who are willing to learn and can swim - will swim to save themself..
this forum and people who share valuable informations (without 'raping' someones mind of free will) are true warriors ...they're kind of life belt send by the Universe...
But if someone's choice is to get drowned it iresponsible towards ourself to waste our time and energy to save him... let it be...
Or we'll end up drown deaht with him....

 

[jclimacus]

Upon what ground should friendship, or indeed any relationship, be based? An agreement to seek the truth, no matter where it leads us, and to follow it, no matter the cost. When you find such a person in this world, its time to "kill the fatted calf" and have a celebration. Any other criteria, that's not based on a commitment, in word and deed to seek truth and first principles, is just sentimentality.

"Have no friend who is not your equal." Confucius, The Analects.

I was confused and offended by this necessity of drawing lines in the sand over "friendships" for a long time, to my cost. There really is no other way to preserve ourselves, than by cutting the cord when it needs to be cut. The pain is better than losing oneself. And one's self is always the price of continuing in a relationship we shouldn't be in.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

The cord is cut.

 

[jclimacus]

Thanks for sharing this Lisa, you are a strong spirit and an example for others. Keep up the good fight!