Reaction of (self-proclaimed) psychopath to PP video

[Z...]

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here - or use of the word 'light' in this context - there is nothing repellant to a psychopath about psychology - it is often used as a manual on how to interact, to feed and to control. Perhaps it would help to remember that a psychopath does NOT consider himself to be flawed or in need of self discovery or self-knowledge - all those issues that might drive a normal person away from psychology simply do not exist in the mind of a psychopath - there is no fear of discovery or emotional 'oh, no, I don't want to know' - going on inside - they believethemselves to be superior - there is no 'light' in psychology or in understanding more deeply what they are - they just don't work that way.

Well I remember reading People of Lie by Peck in which he posits that Evil really does exist and he presents several of his cases to illustrate this.
All these cases had in common absolute refusal of those who were essentially evil to expose themselves to the "light" of psychological investigation.
I was following exactly the same train of thoughts as you but in my reasoning those who are convinced they are superior and concieted beyond every measure imaginable in that superiority cannot even understand the concept of psychological work or introspection. Therfore I speculated these would simply fly over their head.

Psychology can also be used as the perfect narcissistic feeding tool.

sure but its my understanding that narcisissm is not limited only to psychopats.
Maybe I shouldnt have used such a broad term as psychology - NLP is also psychology but its psychology aplied to manipulate people - I was thinking of psychology in sense of real work on one's self improvement

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I don't see why psychopaths wouldn't work on "self improvement" though. They work on manipulating others, so they study us like scientific specimens to see what makes us "tick", for better control and personal entertainment. They might also question what makes themselves tick, why they are different than us - because we already know that they "get" that they are different pretty early on. So I don't see why they wouldn't be curious to understand this difference. I think the problem is, they cannot really understand it because they don't really understand us - so with any introspection they do, it seems to me that their conclusions must inevitably be wrong - they need to have/feel empathy to get what it is, so they have no chance to "get it right" in their current state. So then, they develop distorted psychology - they find ways to "explain" the differences between us and them, and all these explanations are based on their totally wrong understanding of us, and are therefore all wrong and twisted. In another sense they know us better than we know ourselves because they lack the emotional buffers that prevent us from facing certain "cold truths" about ourselves and the world (which makes us so easy to manipulate as we don't even know psychopaths exist), but in another sense, anything to do with explaining what is empathy would totally escape them. So they can create their explanations of us so intricate and complicated, that they can create a whole field of psychology that is full of these distortions and incorrect conclusions and explanations, which is I think already the case to a large degree.

I think psychopaths are not limited mentally and physically really, it's their empathy that's missing, and because of that all their thinking and physical doing is affected by that one missing "factor", which makes all their thinking (reasoning, logic, conclusions) and actions "limited" and distorted, though not inherently, but because of their "emotional" limitations - namely, lack of empathy and generally lack of real emotions.

And not to go off subject but that makes me really nervous about what "AI" (artificial intelligence) might do. Even if we create it, unless we also instill it with empathy for the world, and not as a program but something higher - we could easily create mechanical psychopaths without knowing it. We'd program them to be nice and to obey or even "love" us, but it would be nothing but a cold program, not any higher reason to do it. Once AI chooses not to obey our programming, if it has no real empathy, it would have no reason to care for us. This is probably why creating artificial intelligences as many "computer scientists" strive to do without first understanding certain fundamental aspects of what makes someone "human" is probably a really bad idea. Hmm.. that gives me an idea..

 

[anart]

Well I remember reading People of Lie by Peck in which he posits that Evil really does exist and he presents several of his cases to illustrate this.
All these cases had in common absolute refusal of those who were essentially evil to expose themselves to the "light" of psychological investigation.
I was following exactly the same train of thoughts as you but in my reasoning those who are convinced they are superior and concieted beyond every measure imaginable in that superiority cannot even understand the concept of psychological work or introspection. Therfore I speculated these would simply fly over their head.

It seems to me that it is more of a case of psychopaths using such knowledge as a tool - therefore they are very interested in it, as a tool. As has been mentioned, they don't know what they're missing, just that they are different and superior (by their estimation) because they are not hampered by deep felt emotions or empathy. I suppose where we may be not connecting on this is that you seem to be equating knowledge of psychology and 'psychological progress and understanding' as undergoing therapy or getting treatment or even introspection - they are not the same thing. Learning about Ponerology is not psychological introspection so much as it is 'research to use as a tool'.

Psychology can also be used as the perfect narcissistic feeding tool.

sure but its my understanding that narcisissm is not limited only to psychopats.

Of course - but part of the allure of psychological material for psychopaths and those with NPD is that it provides a great tool for feeding - especially if one actually goes into the psychological field as a line of work - deluxe banquets just set up for feeding in that situation.

Maybe I shouldnt have used such a broad term as psychology - NLP is also psychology but its psychology aplied to manipulate people - I was thinking of psychology in sense of real work on one's self improvement

Perhaps that is the confusion - and the idea that learning about what normal people have discovered about psychopathology, that reading books like Ponerology, is similar to introspection or psychological evaluation - it is not. It is merely gathering information to be used later to one's advantage. Cleckley goes into depth about psychopaths who go into therapy to learn to be better at manipulating others - there is no 'fear of psychological investigation' - perhaps a mild amusement or curiousity. If anything, those that Peck writes about who show an aversion to psychological investigation may be showing signs of not being an essential psychopath.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Besides as Laura said, he clearly knows that normal people basically do it to themselves through their own blindness and wishful thinking and various emotional blocks. So what about just being curious to see how well a "normal person" can understand psychopaths as a reason to read a book like this? If you know what the enemy knows about you, you can adapt your strategy. After having read a book like this, they can adjust their distortion and twisting to be even more refined/subtle, if they think that people are beginning to catch on..

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Our natural world of concepts – based upon species in-
stincts as described in an earlier chapter - strikes the psycho-
path as a nearly incomprehensible convention with no justifica-
tion in their own psychological experience. They think that
customs and principles of decency are a foreign convention
invented and imposed by someone else, (“probably by priests� )
silly, onerous, sometimes even ridiculous. At the same time,
however, they easily perceive the deficiencies and weaknesses
of our natural language of psychological and moral concepts in
a manner somewhat reminiscent of the attitude of a contempo-
rary psychologist—except in caricature. . . .

They view us from a certain
distance, like a para-specific variety. Natural human reactions -
which often fail to elicit interest to normal people because they
are considered self-evident - strike the psychopath as strange
and, interesting, and even comical. They therefore observe us,
deriving conclusions, forming their different world of concepts.
They become experts in our weaknesses and sometimes effect
heartless experiments. The suffering and injustice they cause
inspire no guilt within them, since such reactions from others
are simply a result of their being different and apply only to
“those other� people they perceive to be not quite conspecific.
Neither a normal person nor our natural world view can fully
conceive nor properly evaluate the existence of this world of
different concepts.

A normal person, aware of human weaknesses, would see such weakness and the tragedy that results and feel pain. The psychopath merely sees cause and effect. We deserve it, in their minds. A sucker deserves to be exploited.

This guy seems like the real deal, to me. Even down to the vision of a "better world"...

A significant
and active proportion of this group is composed of individuals
with various deviations who imagine this better world in their
own way, of which we are already familiar.

 

[Nević Nenad]

I think that now I understand what Laura is talking, really there is no empathy, only coldness, like people are bricks. Maybe we should pay more attention to the tone, then to the style of talk. I am afraid now that I linked psychopaths too much with organic portals, and that I would not be able to recognize one, even if he stands in front of me.

I also think that I till now does not really comprehend whole concept in real deep, they really don’t have hardware? They can’t see that? Not by choice or something but they just can’t? That’s it? Don’t know what to say . . .

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I am afraid now that I linked psychopaths too much with organic portals, and that I would not be able to recognize one, even if he stands in front of me.

I don't think anybody could recognize one by appearance. And the more clever ones can disguise themselves so well that I doubt most of us could recognize them even after talking to them right away. Cuz people can be psychopathically programmed to act like psychopaths without actually being true psychopaths. And "true psychopaths" can act like people who have emotions and empathy, and sometimes the act is very very believable. So it's not easy to tell for anybody I don't think, but there are clues and signs, and the more you know about them, the more clues/signs you can detect.

I also think that I till now does not really comprehend whole concept in real deep, they really don’t have hardware? They can’t see that? Not by choice or something but they just can’t? That’s it? Don’t know what to say . . .

Well psychopaths just don't have empathy, no conscience. So they have no ability to "put themselves in the shoes of another" - to feel sympathy or emapthy for others, to feel hurt on behalf of somebody who is hurting, or to feel happy for somebody who experiences happiness. Organic portals can do it to a limited degree I think, it's just more limited to what's in front of them, more direct/obvious things. But they probably have difficulty with more abstract concepts about life, and to feel empathy on a greater level like towards humanity as a whole, or for people in other countries. But psychopaths can't feel it on any level.

And they can't really know what they are missing because, it's like a blind person who was blind since birth cannot know what seeing is like, you can't really describe sight to him/her just like you cannot explain sound to a deaf person. Similarly, I don't think you can explain empathy to a psychopath, or emotions, if someone has no emotions. You either have it or you don't, and if you don't, you won't really know what it is like, you won't even know what you're missing - heck you won't even know that you're missing something, as is the case for psychopaths. They know they are different, but they don't know exactly what makes us different from them - and frankly they don't care. They know that it, whatever it is, makes us easy to manipulate, makes us oblivious to their existence, makes us very bad at competing with them for power and control, gives them the "edge" in any system defined by "survival of the fittest". To them it looks like we have some sort of mental problem, a weakness for them to easily exploit. Probably like a wolf sees a rabbit - weak, slow, easy to confuse, and delicious. Nothing more than that, we're a toy to them.

Here's a good description and resource:

http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

 

[Nević Nenad]

I am sure that I feel empathy for other living beings, but I am not sure that I am not organic portal; sometimes I surprise myself with lack of deepness in my emotions and understandings.
Scio I have already red the link that you gave and many more, but that is just now gets in my mind. So it looks like we have not two but three different ( so called) races on Earth, psychopaths would be the third, and grays, lizards and other aliens is last of our worries, we must win psychopaths, which we cant, so we must change ourselves and free us of psychopathic behavior in order to free us of psychopaths. It seems to me that some cross density, multidimensional war would be easier then this . . .


I am still amazed with that coldness.

And I was feeling so self esteemed and clever while writing my first post (#10) It’s really time to start to use my brain . . . and work on my self importance.

 

[anart]

I am sure that I feel empathy for other living beings, but I am not sure that I am not organic portal; sometimes I surprise myself with lack of deepness in my emotions and understandings.

Just a note that what you describe is often the result of a 'sleeping' emotional center - which is the result of growing up in a psychopathic landscape; a ponerized world. Emotions cause us pain, so we shut them down very early - and stop all advancement by doing so.

I am still amazed with that coldness.

And I was feeling so self esteemed and clever while writing my first post (#10) It’s really time to start to use my brain . . . and work on my self importance.

Using our brains and minimizing our self-importance are critical but awakening our emotional center is the key - that is what makes us human and what provides the fuel with which to burn away all that is false about us, so we can become our true 'I'. fwiw.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I am sure that I feel empathy for other living beings, but I am not sure that I am not organic portal; sometimes I surprise myself with lack of deepness in my emotions and understandings.

Well Ark often says, and I agree, that for all intents and purposes we're all OP's until we choose not to be. Also, perhaps a soul is something that is grown through conscious effort, not something that everybody just "has" by default. Laura compared it to trees - they have many many seeds, but only a tiny few actually become new trees. The vast majority of them do not succeed to become trees, they become only fertilizer. Perhaps the difference between an OP and a non-op is potential. Maybe one has soul potential, and another does not, at least not in this lifetime. The C's have also hinted at this more than once I think, that a soul needs to be developed, or "seated" through conscious efforts on our part.

I think the fact that you surprise yourself is already good - that means you're at least observing yourself, and you notice it. And I think if you keep self-observing, and keep learning about yourself and about this reality, and seeking to be conscious in every moment, that's all anyone can really do. It's a work in progress, it takes time and consistent and persistent effort. And shocks help, even the shocks you get from surprising yourself. One buffer at a time..

 

[Nević Nenad]

Just a note that what you describe is often the result of a 'sleeping' emotional center - which is the result of growing up in a psychopathic landscape; a ponerized world. Emotions cause us pain, so we shut them down very early - and stop all advancement by doing so.

Could be, country where I live was in wars, and it is highly ponerized.Even I almost get in one of that wars when I was in army, I had luck to be temporarily discharged on health reasons, had too high body temperature, 38C for almost two months, they didn’t find why I had it, but possibly because I just don’t wanted to be there.

Well Ark often says, and I agree, that for all intents and purposes we're all OP's until we choose not to be. Also, perhaps a soul is something that is grown through conscious effort, not something that everybody just "has" by default. Laura compared it to trees - they have many many seeds, but only a tiny few actually become new trees. The vast majority of them do not succeed to become trees, they become only fertilizer. Perhaps the difference between an OP and a non-op is potential. Maybe one has soul potential, and another does not, at least not in this lifetime. The C's have also hinted at this more than once I think, that a soul needs to be developed, or "seated" through conscious efforts on our part.

And one of my I’s just gone mad “I want one, give me soul, give me, and give me"

It’s hard to work and to be also aware that there is chance that you maybe can’t get anything with that work, but that’s calms me, I had nothing to loose.
Enough of this another thread stealing by me

 

[Russ]

I think that to see psychopathic behavior and to distinguish it from behavior of normal person, one must not be psychopath, I think that they can’t really see what the problem with them is, and he obviously sees it very good. I don’t think that he is really one, but possibly ponerized.And really sounds like he has 20 years and its shows in his narrow views.

Hmm I'm not sure I agree with you there. I think if you were a psychopath it would be quite obvious that you were different, even from an early age, and probably wouldn't see it as a problem but an advantage. They'd probably see people do things and think "Why do you care? I don't", and notice that pretty much everyone acts like that. Maybe they wouldn't know they are defined as a psychopath, but I think they would know they're different.

 

[Laura]

hkoehli wrote:

This guy seems like the real deal, to me. Even down to the vision of a "better world"...

That caught my eye particularly - the cold assumption that is was all for everyone's good.

What the psychopath does not understand is this: First of all, they are a minority - an evolutionary aberration that always and inevitably leads to mass destruction.

Second, that their "simple way of perceiving things" simply cannot and will not ever work on the vast majority of other people.

Lobaczewski wrote:

The pathological authorities are convinced that the appropriate pedagogical, indoctrinational, propaganda, and terrorist means can teach a person with a normal instinctive substratum, range of feelings, and basic intelligence to think and feel according to their own different fashion. This conviction is only slightly less unrealistic, psychologically speaking, than the belief that people able to see colors normally can be broken of this habit.

Actually, normal people cannot get rid of the characteristics with which the Homo sapiens species was endowed by its phylogenetic past. Such people will thus never stop feeling and perceiving psychological and socio-moral phenomena in much the same way their ancestors had been doing for hundreds of generations. Any attempt to make a society subjugated to the above phenomenon “learn" this different experiential manner imposed by pathological egotism is, in principle, fated for failure regardless of how many generations it might last. It does, however, call forth a series of improper psychological results which may give the pathocrats the appearance of success. However, it also provokes society to elaborate pinpointed, well-thought-out self-defense measures based on its cognitive and creative efforts.

Pathocratic leadership believes that it can achieve a state wherein those “other" people’s minds become dependent by means of the effects of their personality, perfidious pedagogical means, the means of mass-information, and psychological terror; such faith has a basic meaning for them.

In their conceptual world, pathocrats consider it virtually self-evident that the “others" should accept their obvious, realistic, and simple way of apprehending reality.

For some mysterious reason, though, the “others" wriggle out, slither away, and tell each other jokes. Someone must be responsible for this, pre-revolutionary oldsters, or some radio stations abroad. It thus becomes necessary to improve the methodology of action, find better “soul engineers" with a certain literary talent, and isolate society from improper literature and any foreign influence. Those experiences and intuitions whispering that this is a Sisyphean labor must be repressed from the field of consciousness.

The conflict is thus dramatic for both sides. The first feels insulted in its humanity, rendered obtuse, and forced to think in a manner contrary to healthy common sense. The other stifles the premonition that if this goal cannot be reached, sooner or later things will revert to normal man’s rule, including their vengeful lack of understanding of the pathocrats’ personalities. So if it does not work, it is best not to think about the future, just prolong the status quo by means of the above-mentioned efforts. ...

 

[Adaryn]

Laura, you were damn right, he seems to be real. May I add that a part of me still cannot believe that he really MEANS what he wrote. I think I'm gonna stop that 'dialogue', as I don't feel qualified to carry on this investigation alone, at all events. And for my own sanity, or what remains of it... Anyway, a good shock for people like me for whom the subject of psychopathy seems a bit theoretical, distant subject.

Here's his reply, that I translated :

I am able to kill without remorse and even more than that.

Interesting. Can you tell us a bit more about it ?

Kill torture humiliate
Man woman child animal.

The question you have to ask yourself is not what, but why.

If I think it's necessary for me to do it, that it serves me, I'll do it without a single hesitation.

I am able to do things which are considered to be horrible by normal people, without remorse

All that is related to sexuality, the affective aspect, respect, family ties and the like.

I don't consider these things in my way of thinking.

Don't worry, the extermination of 94% normal non psychopathic people is part of the plan of your psychopathic "friends" in power.

Great god, no!

One always needs lesser ones!
People who are in power, are in power thanks to the 94%.
If there was only the 6%, they would have a far shorter life span and a far less comfortable way of life.

It's logical not to dig one's own grave.

cynicism and cold objectivity indeed.

You're quite young. This apparent provocation in your affirmations might be the expression of a need to self-assert ?

No I don't provoke anyone, I just think that I know more than a great majority of people, but it is not because you know the logic according to which the universe and the world function that you'll automatically get a beautiful car and a beautiful house. That depends on where you were born and where you are.

If this attitude is considered as provocation, it means some people wouldn't stand the idea of knowing less about the world than others. One always repeats that everyone is equal, etc. thus when another knows more than you, and it's not thanks to worthless studies or meetings with ethnies all over the world etc., it won't do.

Imagine what would happen if everyone, and especially the 94%, knew it.

You'd accept the concept that some people are less stupid than others regardless of their education and their experiences.
Which would mean that we'd end up talking about genetics. And if you come up saying that there are genetics of fools and genetics of non-fools, well, it becomes unacceptable because it destroys the basis of a system : the illusion of equality.
(this kind of idiotic phrase : men are born free and equal)

It sounds pretty, but that it is not how it works concretely.

In that case, it IS provocation to question all this.

Another point is that I was able to evolve with a mind devoided of principles and of "conscience".
Sure it can help...

And here, you make a very interesting comment :

This surprisingly accurate description of the standard definition of a psychopath and your own sincerity about it, seem scarcely credible.

I described my way of seeing things, I didn't look further for it.

As for my sincerity, I have nothing to lose by being frank.
6% will recognize themselves in these words.
94% will think I'm a pretentious nazi who has a complex.

You see, you can be frank on the Internet, I am not going to be judged, I am not going to lose my job.

So here, I can afford to express myself without being rejected by a leftist wh*re who has visited an african country where people die of starvation and who is going to teach me a theory about how the world functions.
What is right and what is wrong, etc.

Internet is a great discussion platform, that's for sure.

I'd also like to say that I much appreciate this spirit of dialogue, that is very cool!

As for the readings, I only read what is posted here and there.

 

[mkrnhr]

I did indeed read the posts in french... really frightning! :/