Rfid's; cause of cancer in pets

[Ripred]

Yes, our dogs were chipped as we adopted from the pound. So no choice. I've read this stuff about chipping and worry about the dangers but it can reunite the animal with home. Collars with tags can fall off if a dog gets lost. I'm not defending the practice which seems clearly like programming for getting the rest of us used to the idea being chipped.

 

[Guardian]

Yes, our dogs were chipped as we adopted from the pound. So no choice. I've read this stuff about chipping and worry about the dangers but it can reunite the animal with home. Collars with tags can fall off if a dog gets lost. I'm not defending the practice which seems clearly like programming for getting the rest of us used to the idea being chipped.

Another option to prove identity and ownership is a tattoo on the inside of the leg. I've been told it can be done completely painlessly with a topical anesthetic. Considering my current lifestyle, I don't think it's necessary, but it might be an option for active river runners and others who take their dogs into high risk environments?

 

[loreta]

My two dogs are chipped and I regretted. I was not aware at that time, not wake up at all. It is too late now to change anything but my next dog will not be chipped. My three cats are not.

 

[Ripred]

Great idea with the tattoo and yes, for dogs living in wilderness or rural areas or just scent-driven hound types that are prone to go off after a scent or prey.

 

[mcb]

My two dogs are chipped and I regretted. I was not aware at that time, not wake up at all. It is too late now to change anything but my next dog will not be chipped. My three cats are not.

Our two rescue cats were already chipped, so I didn't have any particular reason to research it at the time. But while there are believable accounts of ID chips resulting in tumors, I have not seen any actual evidence so far that the incidence rate is anything but "very low" -- something to be viewed in the context of all the other risks that pets face.

What I have seen is people trying to manipulate pet owners into worrying about it as if the incidence rate were higher. Whenever you read such material you need to engage your critical thinking, put things in context, and ask appropriate questions.

Before I can form an opinion one way or the other, I need some information about a risk that I have been repeatedly warned about, from our vet and others, which is that of pets (particularly) cats wearing collars and snagging them on things. Some collars also make noise, either from dangling tags or from having a bell -- Cassie came to us wearing a bell :) . Can anyone here comment on that risk?

 

[anart]

My two dogs are chipped and I regretted. I was not aware at that time, not wake up at all. It is too late now to change anything but my next dog will not be chipped. My three cats are not.

Our two rescue cats were already chipped, so I didn't have any particular reason to research it at the time. But while there are believable accounts of ID chips resulting in tumors, I have not seen any actual evidence so far that the incidence rate is anything but "very low" -- something to be viewed in the context of all the other risks that pets face.

What I have seen is people trying to manipulate pet owners into worrying about it as if the incidence rate were higher. Whenever you read such material you need to engage your critical thinking, put things in context, and ask appropriate questions.

Before I can form an opinion one way or the other, I need some information about a risk that I have been repeatedly warned about, from our vet and others, which is that of pets (particularly) cats wearing collars and snagging them on things. Some collars also make noise, either from dangling tags or from having a bell -- Cassie came to us wearing a bell :) . Can anyone here comment on that risk?

Yes, it's a risk. Life is filled with risks. What we can do is minimize those we are aware of. EM radiation emitted directly into the soft tissue around rfid chips harms cells and has resulted in tumor growth. Personally, that's a risk I would avoid. My cat, who lived until she was 21, never wore a collar, so I avoided that risk too (though she was an indoor cat who only got outside on a leash and I always felt bad about how that affected her quality of life) - but - we're on planet earth, so there will always be pain. The best we can do is minimize that which we have some opportunity to control.

 

[Jones]

I don't know how common it is Megan, since I have never read any statistics on it - but it is a risk and one that I'd prefer to avoid. Also I'm not sure how a cat might react, but I'm assuming it may be similar to a dog? Thing is that they can panic and try to pull away, all the while twisting and turning trying to get loose, which worsens the problem.

I know of 2 dogs who got their collar snagged and died. One was where a two dogs were playing, one grabbed the other by the collar and got it's lower jaw caught in the collar of the other. In the ensuing struggle the collar got twisted one dog died and the other had extensive soft tissue damage to it's jaw. Thing is that they can panic and try to pull away, all the while twisting and turning, which worsens the problem.

The other was where the dog's ID tags got caught in one of the small gaps in a timber deck/patio floor.

For that reason I like these collars:

http://www.keepsafecollar.com/View.aspx?page=dogs/products/collars/keepsafe/description

If the dog does get caught up in something then that could mean that they will still be without identification, but I think I'd prefer to risk that rather than the other.

 

[Guardian]

Our two rescue cats were already chipped, so I didn't have any particular reason to research it at the time. But while there are believable accounts of ID chips resulting in tumors, I have not seen any actual evidence so far that the incidence rate is anything but "very low" -- something to be viewed in the context of all the other risks that pets face.

I was in the same thinking space Megan. My dog was chipped years ago, and my rescue kitty came pre-chipped so I didn't go digging until I got a new furkin.

I think what bothered me most is how hard the microchip industry is trying to hide the results of long term tests, as well as other evidence of cancer caused by chipping.

This is a good site to start on for your research:
http://www.antichips.com/

 

[Guardian]

Another HUGE issue is that your pet can never get an MRI safely after being chipped

http://www.antichips.com/the-health-risks.htm

 

[mcb]

...EM radiation emitted directly into the soft tissue around rfid chips harms cells and has resulted in tumor growth.

That is another point I would like to clarify, but for which I don't have enough information. So far as I know, the RFID implant chips are of the "passive" type -- they have no internal power source and cannot radiate energy unless they receive power from outside (e.g. from a scanner).

Parallel commented in the original post in this topic that "It would make sense that animals with implanted chips trotting around in fields of wireless radiation would attract a lot of stress around the implanted area." I can see where there could be a real concern about this for a pet living indoors in a house with high EMF levels, but the pet and the humans would have other health risks as well from the direct effects of the EMF, and that would be the first thing to address, starting with cell phones, Wi-Fi, and cordless phones (and possibly household wiring errors as well). The implant chip has an antenna that could concentrate energy from certain frequencies.

Of course any time anything is implanted there is a risk of complications. This might be lower in pets because they are smaller and don't live as long, or higher because they are more susceptible for other reasons; I don't know. It would be helpful to know something about the incidence of complications and about the actual recovery rate.

...Personally, that's a risk I would avoid. My cat, who lived until she was 21, never wore a collar, so I avoided that risk too (though she was an indoor cat who only got outside on a leash and I always felt bad about how that affected her quality of life) - but - we're on planet earth, so there will always be pain. The best we can do is minimize that which we have some opportunity to control.

Given an opportunity I would take a close look at the risks posed by implants, with any new pet. We are not likely to take in any more "rescue" cats, because their issues (that improve but never go away) somehow seem to become our issues.

Our cats also only go out with a harness and leash, and I don't feel good about that and neither do they. Neither one seems to have much chance of surviving on her own, though, and it seems like the better alternative. Cassie is small, weak, and not very agile, and Bella is prone to panic, probably from whatever happened in her first three years before she joined us. That is how this otherwise intelligent cat came to find herself freezing and starving 100 feet from our house. She was afraid to come out of the "safe space" that she found across the street. All it takes is a slight noise to send her into a panic.

Without reliable data to show that the implants have any real benefit, I would be inclined to avoid them.

 

[Sirius]

I would never ever have an implanted pet, rather no pet at all if there were no other choices. Animals are not meant to be cyborgs.

Before I can form an opinion one way or the other, I need some information about a risk that I have been repeatedly warned about, from our vet and others, which is that of pets (particularly) cats wearing collars and snagging them on things. Some collars also make noise, either from dangling tags or from having a bell -- Cassie came to us wearing a bell . Can anyone here comment on that risk?

Chain your leg with a lead ball, that's how it must be for cat to wear a collar with a bell. They can no longer hunt or play hunting, for example. If there is no bell attached, cats get used to it usually. But they can no longer clean their fur around the neck properly. They will also scratch that area too much as a result.

 

[mcb]

I would never ever have an implanted pet, rather no pet at all if there were no other choices. Animals are not meant to be cyborgs.

Having an implant is equivalent to being a cyborg? We certainly weren't going to reject Cassie or Bella because of a stupid implant.

Before I can form an opinion one way or the other, I need some information about a risk that I have been repeatedly warned about, from our vet and others, which is that of pets (particularly) cats wearing collars and snagging them on things. Some collars also make noise, either from dangling tags or from having a bell -- Cassie came to us wearing a bell . Can anyone here comment on that risk?

Chain your leg with a lead ball, that's how it must be for cat to wear a collar with a bell. They can no longer hunt or play hunting, for example. If there is no bell attached, cats get used to it usually. But they can no longer clean their fur around the neck properly. They will also scratch that area too much as a result.

This was a sick cat at the time (three years ago), and we even left the bell on for a short while to keep track of her while she became accustomed to the house, but we couldn't stand it either. When we had gone to the rescue house, she was hiding in the fireplace and stayed there until we took her with us. She couldn't run and jump, and there is nothing to hunt in our house except bugs anyway. I think you might be taking mental images of a different situation and trying to apply them here.

Before (with bell, on arrival) and now...

 

[Sirius]

Having an implant is equivalent to being a cyborg? We certainly weren't going to reject Cassie or Bella because of a stupid implant.

Only in case of getting a new pet. Even a severely ill or invalid cat can be one's loved one. What I meant: Pathological ideas must not cross the door and enter one's house.

I think you might be taking mental images of a different situation and trying to apply them here.

I know it from young and lively cats. Ordinary pet holders, as it so common for human beings, express control urges, so they search ways so limit their pet's latitudes in unnecessary ways. Collars are not critical and can be taken off, of course, from time to time.

 

[loreta]

Thanks for this thread and discussion. Surely in this subject too information is vital, for us and for our friends 2D. Our battle is so huge!

 

[Nienna]

Having an implant is equivalent to being a cyborg? We certainly weren't going to reject Cassie or Bella because of a stupid implant.

Only in case of getting a new pet. Even a severely ill or invalid cat can be one's loved one. What I meant: Pathological ideas must not cross the door and enter one's house.

So if there was a needy dog who had been chipped and you were the only one who could save it, you would rather let it stay needy and possibly be killed rather than taking it into your house? Your thinking on this issue does not make a lot of sense to me and I know what you are saying. It's rather illogical to me.