Risk v. Safety

[avivalevy3]

Who knows what else may be in the mix. The possible fact that you may have had past life experiences with the people in this group should also be considered. Without knowing the exact truth about these types of things, it can be confusing. Standing firm in your present commitment to exploring rather than reacting to these feelings that pop up might help a bit. A type of weeding process without commitments.

From personal experience, meeting a female that recognized me from a past life and I also recognized her, we hugged. This hug was more out of mutual respect and genuine care than anything. That hug was a beautiful experience for both of us. I don't think there was any sexual interaction between us in past lives, but that wasn't even considered during the exchange. This type of hug, to me, was genuine Agape ĺove.

Yes, the teacher of the first class and I had that same experience. Recognition. This particular guy was also in the first teacher training program 12 years ago and he dropped out, so he's not casually stopping by for pickup opportunities, he's shy, he doesn't drive, the kibbutz is not accessible by train, so for him to participate at all was more of an effort that someone would make for an easy date, and he does not get very many dates...he's not "easy," at all, he's just lonely and wanting the same love/safety we all want.

 

[Expedition26]

I journaled so much about this it is turning into a book. I did not dismiss the seek10 answer and I did read the link but romance reading has no interest for me. We're not teenagers, we're old people : ). I am not seeking "romance" nor do I want casual sex or to "fall" in love. I want to learn about intimacy, non-verbal communication and the rest is exercise. If I meet somebody who wants to exchange unconditional love in an affectionate relationship of some kind, great, but that's not the purpose of the workshop. People do meet at all sorts of events, they follow up outside the workshop. I myself am interested in this method as an effective treatment for Parkinson's. I would like to pursue it and see how good I can get at it, and eventually lead groups for Parkinson's patients.

The questions I am asking are not about "this person" so much as about the dynamic of people coming to these intimacy groups hungry for intimacy and yet we (myself included) seem unable to accept what is offered without a struggle of some kind. I want clarity about the quality of what we call "love." The leaders teach agape/STO. Some of the participants say they want agape and appear to want something else. Do we kick people out when they exhibit STS behavior, like hitting on participants? Or do we teach them? If so, what is an STO response to an STS behavior when the individual who comes to the class says they seek one kind of love (unconditional) and yet their behavior exhibits STS (hitting on the women for sex). The groups do attract mostly women.

When he asked me the day before, "do I mind if he hits on other women?" I honestly said, "not at all," because he and I are not a couple. What I did not say is that the leader might mind. The women might mind. This could be why he's unsuccessful in finding a woman, if he's turning a human intimacy exercise into a pickup opportunity, but it's not my place to tell him to stop it. Unless C's have some suggestions, I'll just continue to attend and see what happens.

I was discussing this issue with one of the leaders the other day. She said that when one of her students acted in this way, she kicked him out because he's thinking with his privates not with his heart. I am not sure this is the right path. I know this guy, he wants agape. He's struggling. I myself need guidance in what action to take, because in this context every motion has meaning. Is it a matter of crossed signals? Or of karmic past between myself and this particular guy?

If my questions are still unclear, let me know, I'll try again.

Shalom from Akko, Israel

The romance reading project isn’t about falling in love or sex or is even being in love, but if you’re uninterested I will not speak of it further.

With all things people have to want to learn, want to change and we need to respect their free will in doing so. Maybe the participants of your group don’t want to learn the ways of STO. Why try and convince them to be a certain way if they are not open to it? Why spend the energy on changing other people? If they aren’t adhering to the rules of said group then yes kick them out, they don’t want to learn the same things that are being taught, no point in wasting energy trying to persuade them of something different.

Also, if I was a single guy I would totally be joining groups where there are single women looking to learn about love. Sounds like practical place to meet singles. That might not be the purpose behind the group but I’m sure there are women in your group that wouldn’t mind a guy asking them out after class either.

I think most people are either searching for their “soulmate” or for casual sex regardless of what platonic groups they may be enrolled in. Everyone is seeking their person consciously or unconsciously.

 

[WIN 52]

Yes, and could also be Love bite.

Based on interactions post hug, it was most definitely not a love bite.

As stated, mutual recognition, respect and a sense of kinship not often found in 2021. Definitely Agape love in my mind and as far as can be understood in her mind as well.

 

[siftingmaterials]

This idea, that we have to balance the two, came up repeatedly for me over the past week. First, it came up with my therapist, in a discussion about private hugs with a partner. We had what I would call a series of hugs. Some were very emotionally nurturing for me. Others were sort of "pro forma," just being polite kind of "meh" hugs. Then, when I would get ready to leave and ask if he wanted a hug, he would say, "no but I'll give you a hug if you want one." I decided I did not like this and asked him what he feels when we hug. Something like this:
He says, "you overcomplicate things."
"Why?"
"Why do you have to ... demand that I feel something instead of accepting what I do feel?"
"What do you feel?"
"I feel nothing."Accusing you of overcomplicating the issue is a defense mechanism. It's not complicated. Some times we are suffering.

It sounds like he lashed out at you. It doesn't sound like you overcomplicated the situation to me. It sounds like he was suffering and lashed out.

Then the next day, a long stare.
Am I refusing to receive love?
Are we confusing signals?
Are we both afraid to receive love?
Is this love, or something else?

The answers to these questions, honestly, are most likely to come from you. Go into it. What is love? Why do we refuse it? What is fear? Why do we embrace it? What is the mind's role? Why What is confusion and what is choice? The answers to these questions might help remind you what's happening in your life.

We are both in our 60s. Neither of us has ever married. A series of very strange events led to our meeting.
Can I ask the Cs what's going on here, with this "dance?"
Even "dance" itself is a repeating theme.
I return to Israel, 18 months ago. After many years in the states. I've never danced.
Then, I find out I have Parkinson's. (C's? Comment? Is it Parkinson's? Not Parkinson's? What is it then? 5 neurologists: 1 says no. 1 says maybe something else. 3 say Parkinson's. 1 of those 3 is a Professor. Are any of them right?).
A year of laying around feeling sorry for myself then looking at retirement/nursing homes. Very depressing.
I decide to stay in Akko on my own. It worked out.
Now, all these questions.
The therapist says we each want to know if our love will be received before we risk giving it.
Then is it love? Isn't that a condition? It can't be STO if it's conditional, can it? It has to be agape.
So we hesitate, or we stand there, weighing the chance of rejection. STS, no? another word is ego? Too much thinking?
On the other hand, we don't want to accept something that has psychic strings attached, or an ulterior motive, like sex.
This leads to a question about sex. The therapist & I say sex is not love and love is not sex. I say sex is an expression of love. I think my dance partner knows this, but he says the opposite. It's frustrating.
Before the class, he says to me, "will you be upset if you see me hit on women?"
I say, "of course not."
The irony is my "dance partner" was one of the first Biodanza participants. Biodanza is not a singles activity. It's an intimacy workshop. Why does a 61 year old act like a 16 year old or what's really going on here?
Why do so very many of us have trouble accepting agape/love without conditions? Why can't we look one another in the eye? Why do people refuse to turn off their cell phones at dinner, even if they are not "religious," just to see who is at the table? Why has human touch become something scary?
Biodanza seeks to encourage human connection on more than just a sexual level....perhaps to remember together what that's like. Is it just a hippy renewal Israeli style? The 1960s Haight Ashbury all over again? I don't think so. I don't see any drugs. My teacher does not smoke anything. She takes prescription meds, so do I, nothing else. I did not see any tie dye or scraggly jeans. Just regular people, mostly older, maybe mostly single, maybe mostly lonely but some with jobs, kids...
Your thoughts?
Shalom from Akko, Israel


I want to give love, first, then receive. Or:
I want to give & receive love simultaneously with my partner (context is a Biodanza exercise).
My partner only wants to give love, He stands facing me, making eye contact, with his hand on his heart.
I stand facing him, making eye contact, first with my two hands on my heart.
I have confused the signals (explained tonight by another teacher)

 

[siftingmaterials]

What's desire? And what's desires relationship to time? There are many useful paths of inquiry. Also, more information from him would help dispell confusion. But I'd say, at the end of the day, information from him will only help you reach what you already know and feel on some level.

I say sex is an expression of love. I think my dance partner knows this, but he says the opposite. It's frustrating.

Yeah that's wild resistance. Reminds me of the "do you want a hug" reaction. Some times an invitation to consent reminds people that they are ensnared by larger cycles to which they did not consent. Pain. The mind. Desire. Time. He'd know better than any of us what's going on there.

Why has human touch become something scary?

What is the relationship between time and suffering? We want to be the thing we don't believe we are, maybe. We wish we were somewhere else. We want to fast forward or rewind. Go back or go ahead to when touch isn't scary. What is the feeling associated with that question? Despair? Helplessness?