Russia Begins Operations in Syria: End Game for the US Empire?

Today on Berlins initiative Wladimir Putin and Angela Merkel had a phone talk about Syria, Ukraine and some other stuff.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) - Russian President Vladimir Putin and German Chancellor Angela Merkel discussed, in a phone call, overcoming negative trends on global financial markets, Syria, the Kremlin press service said in a statement Wednesday.
"Some issues related to overcoming negative trends on global financial markets were touched upon," the statement said.
The conversation took place at Berlin's initiative.

The situation in Syria, Ukraine
"The sides discussed some issues related to Syrian settlement. The Russian president informed [Merkel] about the Russia-Turkey arrangements to stabilize the situation in Idlib de-escalation zone, reached at the talks with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on September 18 in Sochi," the statement said.

"The sides confirmed mutual commitment to promoting the settlement of Ukrainian conflict, including within the Normandy format," the press service added.

Russia-Turkey Agreements on Syria's Idlib
Vladimir Putin informed Angela Merkel about Russian-Turkish agreements on stabilization in the Idlib de-escalation zone in Syria, the Kremlin's press service said.

"Issues of the Syrian settlement were discussed, and the Russian president informed [Merkel] about the Russian-Turkish agreements on stabilization in the Idlib de-escalation zone, reached at the talks with Turkish President [Recep Tayyip] Erdogan in Sochi on September 17," it said.

Putin and Erdogan on Monday agreed in Sochi to create by October 15 a demilitarized zone along the contact line of the armed opposition and government troops in the Syrian province of Idlib, and the defense ministers of the two countries signed a memorandum on stabilizing the situation in the Idlib de-escalation zone.

Situation After DPR Head Murder
Russian President Vladimir Putin expressed concern to German Chancellor Angela Merkel about the situation that resulted from the murder of the head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR), Alexander Zakharchenko.

"Vladimir Putin expressed his concern about the situation that resulted from the assassination of DPR head Zakharchenko. He again stressed the need for the complete implementation of the 2015 Minsk Package of Measures, including registering the region's special status legislatively by Kiev," it said.

Zakharchenko was killed in a bomb blast at the Separ cafe in downtown Donetsk on August 31. DPR Finance Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Timofeev, who accompanied Zakharchenko, is in serious condition in a hospital.

I was a bit surprised that it happened on the initiative on Berlin to talk with Putin, but I think it is a good step and now nobody on the German site can say, we didn't know about anything. Especially considering when Merkel already thought about on taking initiative military actions in Syria against Assad and Putin.
 
There was an article published on a Lebanese news site yesterday, Sept 13, 2018, stating that Russia was able to recover 22 tons of gold and 3 billion US dollars from a convoy of takfiri fighters headed to Turkey from Idlib, with support of the Turkish Army. www.addiyar.com/article/1602656-الطيران-الحربي-الروسي-يمنع-نقل-22-طن-ذهب-ذهب-وثلاث-مليارات-دولار-طائرات-سوخوي-35

I was unable to find a decent translation that made sense, but it basically says that Russia, working with the Belgium Agency that tracks terrorists movements, were able to intercept the convoy and recover the gold, stolen over the past 7 years from Syrian citizens and jewelry shops. Russian Sukhoi 35 fighter jets bombed a perimeter around the convoy, then sent teams of helicopters to gain control of the cache. The Turkish Army did not intervene. Russia then secured and transported the loot to their airbase, where they will keep it until transporting it to the Central Bank in Damascus, giving a much needed financial boost for reconstruction of Syrian infrastructure.

I've been unable to find this story published anywhere else, but if true, Viva la Putin for returning this to the Syrians! Somebody(s), somewhere is really ticked off. :lol:

Just working a timeline here:

* Friday 7 Sep, 2018 - tri-party talks in Tehran, Iran (Iran - Turkey - Russia) Erdogan failed to get his Cease-fire.
Driving out militants from Syria’s Idlib now top priority – Putin


* Mon. Sept. 10, 2018 - Turkey Warns Attack on Syria's Idlib would cause Humanitarian Disaster
Turkey warns attack on Syria's Idlib would cause humanitarian disaster


* Wed. Sept. 12, 2018 - Russian Air Force shifts attention from Idlib to east Syria
Russian Air Force shifts attention from Idlib to east Syria


* Thurs. Sept. 13, 2018 - (Lilou's) article appears in a Lebanese news site - Russia recovers 22 tons of Gold, 3 Billion US Dollars
www.addiyar.com/article/1602656-الطيران-الحربي-الروسي-يمنع-نقل-22-طن-ذهب-ذهب-وثلاث-مليارات-دولار-طائرات-سوخوي-35


* Friday Sept. 14, 2018 - Lavrov disputes claims of imminent offensive in Idlib
Lavrov disputes claims of imminent offensive in Idlib


* Sat. Sept. 15, 2018 - (Pierre's) article "Air Strikes Target Damascus: Syrian Officials Say "Israeli Missile Attack" Thwarted"
Air Strikes Target Damascus: Syrian Officials Say "Israeli Missile Attack" Thwarted


* Sun. Sept. 16, 2018 - Israel targeted Iranian cargo plane at Damascus Airport
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/israel-targeted-iranian-cargo-plane-at-damascus-airport-report/


* Mon. Sept. 17, 2018 - (Youlik) article Russian plane disappears from radars during Israeli attack on Syria’s Latakia – MoD
Russian plane disappears from radars during Israeli attack on Syria’s Latakia


* Mon. Sept. 17, 2018 - Russian Aircraft went off Radar near Hmeymim Airbase in Syria, Military Reports
Russian Aircraft Went Off Radar Near Hmeymim Airbase in Syria, Military Reports


* Mon. Sept. 17, 2018 - Putin - Erdogan meeting on Syria in Sochi
Putin and Erdogan meet in Sochi to discuss Idlib's fate (video)


* Mon. Sept. 17, 2018 - Breaking: Putin and Erdogan agree to establish demilitarized zone in Idlib
Breaking: Putin and Erdogan agree to establish demilitarized zone in Idlib


As noted above, on Sunday Sept. 16th, Israel targeted the Damascus Airport, in essence, an attack on Assad. The next day, "a Russian Ilyushin Il-20 plane that was flying back to the airbase at Syria’s Hmeymim crashed over the Mediterranean Sea late on Monday. http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13970628000248

In Lilou's article, there is this statement: "Russia then secured and transported the loot to their airbase, where they will keep it until transporting it to the Central Bank in Damascus ... " My assumption - the loot was transported to Syria’s Hmeymim Airbase?

" According to the Defense Ministry, four Israeli F-16 fighter jets were delivering airstrikes on Syrian targets in the Latakia governorate at the moment. The ministry said the Russian Il-20 was shot down by Syria’s air defense over the Mediterranean Sea
because Israel’s F-16 fighter jets used it as a cover, since the Israeli command centers and the F-16s’ pilots could not but see the Russian plane, which was approaching the (Hmeymim) runway from an altitude of five kilometers. Fifteen Russian crew members died."

My thought's are ...

The Israeli pilots set up a maneuver - where one of their jets - shadowed the Russian plane (as cover) while it was approaching a runway to land at Hmeymim. The Syrian missile, probably locked on the coordinates of the Israeli jet (now going the same speed as the Russian plane) accelerated it's speed when it detected the missile - making the Russian plane an easy target?

It was a pre-mediated plan, by the Israeli's (Netanyahu), for a Syrian missile to attack a Russian plane, before it could land at Hmeymim. I feel, the events "lend some creditability" to Lilou's article?

Add this to the timeline - Sunday evening, Sept. 16th, Israeli and Turkish envoy's flew to Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) to hold secret meetings. They departed Monday morning - Sept. 17th, the day Putin and Erdogan were meeting in Sochi.

September 17, 2018 - Israel, Turkey hold secret talks in UAE
Israel, Turkey hold secret talks in UAE

UAE-abu-dhabi-generic-buildings.jpg

Abu Dhabi, UAE [File photo]

Israeli and Turkish envoys yesterday flew to Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) to hold secret backchannel talks on restoring diplomatic relations.

According to a Hebrew language report by Ynet, “an Israeli executive jet and a Turkish government executive plane took off at 09:00 [GMT] to the United Arab Emirates and stopped for a short time. The planes landed in Abu Dhabi at 14:30 and took off again [Monday] morning.” The Times of Israel added that both aircrafts flew via the Jordanian capital Amman, but while “the flights are believed to be connected to the ongoing talks […] neither government has confirmed their purpose”.

It is not known exactly what will be discussed by the two parties, but if the secret talks prove successful they are expected to return their respective ambassadors in early October, after the Jewish holiday season draws to a close, according to the Times of Israel.

Relations between Israel and Turkey have been severed since May when both countries became embroiled in a diplomatic spat against the backdrop of the US embassy move to Jerusalem and the Israeli massacre of Palestinian protesters during the Great March of Return in the besieged Gaza Strip. On 15 May, Turkey asked Israeli Ambassador Eitan Naeh to leave the country. In retaliation, Turkey’s consul general in Jerusalem Gurcan Turkoglu was summoned by the Israeli Foreign Ministry and asked to leave.

Relations were further soured when Turkish President, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, took to Twitter to condemn Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He tweeted: “Netanyahu is the PM of an apartheid state that has occupied a defenseless people’s lands for 60+ yrs in violation of UN resolutions. He has the blood of Palestinians on his hands and can’t cover up crimes by attacking Turkey.”

Netanyahu responded via Twitter, saying: “Erdogan is among Hamas’s biggest supporters and there is no doubt that he well understands terrorism and slaughter. I suggest that he not preach morality to us.”

The crisis deepened on 17 May when Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Recep Akdag claimed that the Israeli and Egyptian governments had prevented a Turkish aircraft from transporting Palestinians injured in the Great March from Gaza to Turkey. Akdag called on the World Health Organization (WHO) to intervene, explaining: “I called the head of the World Health Organization and asked for support, similar to what they have done in the 2014 crisis when they put pressure on [Israel].”

That the talks are being held in the UAE will also be seen as significant in light of the Gulf state’s normalization of relations with Israel. In September, the UAE agreed to allow the Israeli national anthem to be played and the flag to be flown at an international judo tournament slated to be held in Abu Dhabi next month. The tournament will also see Israeli and Emirati judoists compete side by side.

Israel-UAE relations have also extended to security and political fields. In August it emerged that the UAE purchases Israeli security technology via a firm called Asia Global Technology, which is run by Israeli-American businessman Mati Kochavi. In June, an exposé by the New Yorker revealed that Israel and the UAE have been engaged in secret normalization talks since the Oslo Accords of the 1990s. These meetings discussed the possibility of the UAE purchasing F-16 fighter jets from the US, which are known to be comprised of Israeli technology. The Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi, Mohammed Bin Zayed, also gave his blessing for delegations of influential American Jews to be brought to Abu Dhabi to meet with Emirati officials and establish an intelligence-sharing relationship.


19 September، 2018 - President al-Assad sends cable of condolence to President Putin on the martyrdom of Russian soldiers
President al-Assad sends cable of condolence to President Putin on the martyrdom of Russian soldiers – Syrian Arab News Agency

President Bashar al-Assad sent on Wednesday a cable of condolence to Russian President Vladimir Putin, expressing deep regret over the martyrdom of Russian soldiers in the incident of Russian warplane fall in the Mediterranean, affirming that the incident was a result of the Israeli usual revelry.

“On behalf of the Syrian people and by my name, we express our deep condolence over the fall of the Russian jet on the Mediterranean, causing the martyrdom of the Russian heroes who were doing their noble duties along with their colleagues of the Russian military forces in the fight against terrorism in Syria,” the President said in the cable.

The cable added that the regrettable incident was a result of the Israeli usual revelry which always uses the dirtiest means to achieve its low purposes and carry out its aggression in our region.

“We are confident that such painful acts would not affect you and us to continue fighting terrorism,” the cable said.
 
By the expression on Putin's face, I doubt Israel/Netanyahu will be able to wiggle out of this "downing of the Russian IL-20" incident?
On the surface, Putin might appear "diplomatic" but Syria isn't the Gaza strip and Russia doesn't play by Israel's dictates.

September 18, 2018
Russian President Vladimir Putin

September 18, 2018 - Putin: Chain of Tragic Circumstances Led to Downing of Russian Aircraft over Syria
Putin: Chain of Tragic Circumstances Led to Downing of Russian Aircraft over Syria

Russian President Vladimir Putin has addressed the downing of the Russian IL-20 by a Syrian surface-to-air missile on Monday evening. Earlier Moscow blamed Israeli jets for having provoked the tragic accident.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has offered condolences over the death of the crew of the aircraft Il-20 downed in Syria.

“When people die, especially in such tragic circumstances, it is always a tragedy, a tragedy for us all, for the whole country and for the families of our dead friends. In this connection, I certainly offer my condolences to the relatives of those who got killed in the crash,’ Putin said at a press conference with Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban in Moscow.

Putin stated that the Russian side is set to thoroughly investigate the case.

“Most certainly, we have to sort the case out most seriously. And our attitude to the tragedy is outlined in the Russian Defense Ministry’s statement,” he noted, adding he personally approved it.

“Russia’s retaliatory measures with regard to the Il-20 downing will be directed primarily at stepping up security of Russian military officers in Syria, our military facilities in the Syrian Arab Republic,” he said. “These will be the steps everyone will notice” he stressed.

“When it comes to comparing the Il-20 crash with other incidents, namely an attack on a Russian plane, when a Russian plane was downed by a Turkish military jet, this is still a different situation,” Putin noted, adding that the latest incident looks like “a chain of tragic accidental circumstances.”

The Il-20 aircraft has been downed by Syrian military forces after ‘Israel’ jets put it under attack off the Syrian coast, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov stated. According to the spokesman, the Israeli jets deliberately created a dangerous situation in Latakia.


18 September 2018 - Russia Defense Minister: Israel Bears Full Responsibility for Downing of IL-20 Off Syrian Coast
https://www.globalresearch.ca/russi...for-downing-of-il-20-off-syrian-coast/5654516

Russia’s Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu officially stated that Israel bears full responsibility for the downing of Russian IL-20 plane off Syrian coast because its actions had led to this situation.

“The blame for the downing of the Russian plane and the deaths of its crew members lies squarely on the Israeli side,” Shoigu said during a conversation with Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman on the phone. “The actions of the Israeli military were not in keeping with the spirit of the Russian-Israeli partnership, so we reserve the right to respond.”

Earlier, the Russian Defense Ministry revealed that Israeli warplanes used the IL-20 to hide from Syrian air defense fire during the September 17 strike on targets in the war-torn country.

On September 4, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) stated that over the last 1.5 years Israel has carried out around 200 airstrikes on Syria using 800 munitions. The scale of the strikes shows Israel’s long-standing intention to remain a powerbroker in the ongoing Syrian conflict. It’s interesting to note that in most of the cases, the IDF strikes led to a further escalation of the war thus making situation more complicated. The situation is developing.


September 18, 2018 - Israel’ Determined to Stop Iran in Syria, PM Tells Putin
‘Israel’ Determined to Stop Iran in Syria, PM Tells Putin


Zionist Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed Tuesday that ‘Israel’ would keep acting against Iran in Syria, after a Russian aircraft was accidentally downed there by Syria during an Israeli missile strike.

Netanyahu’s office said he told Russian President Vladimir Putin by phone that “Israel is determined to stop Iranian military entrenchment in Syria, and the attempts by Iran, which calls for the destruction of Israel, to transfer to Hezbollah lethal weaponry (to be used) against Israel.”


2018-09-20 - Israel MoD blames ‘unprofessional’ Syrian military for shooting down Russian aircraft
Israel MoD blames 'unprofessional' Syrian military for shooting down Russian aircraft

The Israeli Minister of Defense Avigdor Lieberman stated on Thursday morning that the ‘unprofessional’ Syrian military was to blame for shooting down the Russian aircraft off the coast of Latakia on Monday evening.

“The plane was shot down by irresponsible and unprofessional Syrian air defense personnel who fired when (our) air force jets had already returned to Israeli territory,” Lieberman told Israel’s Army Radio.

Lieberman expressed his sorrow for the lost Russian servicemen, while also acknowledging Russian President Vladimir Putin’s words regarding the downing of the IL-20 reconnaissance aircraft.

“I accept Russian President (Vladimir Putin’s) words that it was a tragic mistake, but the one responsible for this tragic mistake is (Syrian President Bashar al-) Assad’s army,” Lieberman added.

However, the Russian Embassy in Israel did not see eye-to-eye with Lieberman on this claim, as they blamed the Israeli military for the downing of the aircraft.

“Moscow views as irresponsible and unfriendly actions of Israeli Air Force, which exposed Russian Il-20 aircraft to danger and lead to the death of 15 servicemen,” the official Twitter account of the Russian Embassy in Israel tweeted on Thursday.

“Russia would take all necessary measures to eliminate threat to life and security of our military fighting against terrorism,” they added.


20.09.2018 - Israel Reiterates Its Stance on Russian IL-20 Downing in Syria
Israel Reiterates Its Stance on Russian IL-20 Downing in Syria

Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman said he understands Moscow's accusations of involvement in the Russian Il-20 crash, but reiterated that the responsibility for the incident lies on the Syrian militaries.

"We also expressed our condolences in connection with the death of 15 officers of the Russian army in this plane, shot down by the Syrians. I spoke with the Russian Minister of Defense. Naturally, one can understand their attitude at this time," Lieberman said on air.

"I agree that … it was a tragic accident, but the army of [Syrian President Bashar] Assad is responsible for it," the minister added.

In the radio interview with radio station Galei Tzahal, Lieberman emphasized that Israel has no alternative but to continue operations in Syria to counter Iran's military presence and the transfer of modern weapons to the Hezbollah movement in Lebanon.

"We will do everything necessary to ensure the safety of Israeli citizens," he added.

The minister did not answer the question of what to do if Russia, in response to the crash of the Il-20, corrects the existing coordination arrangements in Syria and takes measures that restrict the freedom of action of the Israeli Air Force in this country.

"We have told Russians that we are ready to provide all information and data. The commander of the Israeli Air Force is coming to Russia. We have nothing to hide here," Lieberman told the Army Radio station.

The defense minister noted that the main reason of the Russian plane crash appears to be "the Syrian Army’s excess of self-confidence," and again expressed condolences over the death of the Russian servicemen.

Commenting on the accident later in the day, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova stated that it will require additional investigations and explanations from Israel.

"The tragedy that took place on September 17 will require additional investigations and explanations from the Israeli side, and I am confident that they will follow in the very near future," Zakharova said at a briefing.

"For my part, I believe that the Israeli pilots, as a result of whose actions a threat was created and the Russian aircraft was destroyed, acted at least unprofessionally," she said.

The Russian Hmeymim air base had lost contact with the crew of the Russian Il-20 military aircraft late on Monday during an attack by four Israeli F-16 aircraft on Syrian targets in the province of Latakia.


2018-09-20 - US Navy is aware of Russia’s IL-20, ready to provide assistance if needed
US Navy is aware of Russia's IL-20, ready to provide assistance if needed

The US Navy 6th Fleet is informed about the Russian Il-20 deadly aircraft crash in the Mediterranean and is ready to provide assistance at sea to any country if needed, the 6th Fleet public affairs officer, Cmdr. Kyle Raines,
told Sputnik.
“We are aware of the reporting on the loss of a Russian military aircraft. Our ships stand ready to assist any nation when called upon to render assistance at sea, which is a fundamental element of responsible mariners,” Raines said on Wednesday.

Raines, however, did not say if the Russian Defense Ministry had requested the assistance of the US side in relation to the incident.

The Russian Hmeymim airbase lost contact with the Il-20 military aircraft late on Monday during the attack of four Israeli F-16 aircraft on Syrian targets in the Syrian western Latakia province. All 15 servicemen on board the plane were killed in the crash.

The Russian Defense Ministry said on Tuesday that a search and rescue operation, involving eight Russian vessels, had been launched after the aircraft crash.

The ministry accused the Israeli forces of the deadly incident, pointing out that the Israeli military deliberately created a dangerous situation by using the Russian aircraft as a shield against Syrian air defense systems.


2018-09-20 - Israeli air force chief arrives in Moscow to hand data on Il-20 incident over to Russia
Israeli air force chief arrives in Moscow to hand data on Il-20 incident over to Russia

Israeli Air Force Chief Major General Amikam Norkin arrived in Moscow on Thursday to hand information concerning the downing of the Ilyushin Il-20 aircraft over to Russian authorities, Israel Defense Forces Spokesman Jonathan Conricus told TASS.

"Yes, I can confirm," he said in response to a question as to whether the air force chief was on a visit to Moscow.

On Wednesday night, the Israeli Defense Forces said that Norkin would fly to Moscow on Thursday morning to provide Russia with information about the September 17 incident, including conclusions drawn by Israel. Norkin is accompanied by head of the International Cooperation Unit Brigadier General Erez Maisel and officers from the Intelligence Directorate and the Operations Directorate.

Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Wednesday that Russian President Vladimir Putin in a Tuesday telephone conversation with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had agreed to allow a group of experts led by the Israeli air force chief to bring their data on the Il-20 crash to Moscow. Peskov added that as far as the downing of the aircraft was concerned, Putin was guided by information provided by the Russian Defense Ministry but Russian experts would also study the information Israel would share.


2018-09-20 - Israeli air force chief holds meetings on Il-20 crash with Russian military commanders
http://tass.com/world/1022515

Israeli Air Force Chief Major General Amikam Norkin has held meetings with senior Russian military commanders concerning the downing of Russia’s Ilyushin Il-20 aircraft over the Mediterranean Sea, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said in a statement.

"The IDF delegation to Moscow, led by the Commander of the IAF, Maj. Gen. Amikam Norkin, has held several meetings with the Commander of the Russian Air Force, senior commanders of the Russian army and other officials of the Russian Air Force," the statement reads.

"The Israeli officers presented the situation report regarding the downing of the Russian plane by Syrian anti-aircraft fire on Monday night, as well as the pre-mission information and the findings of the IDF's inquiry of the event," the Israel Defense Forces said, adding that "the meetings were conducted following the agreement between the Israeli Prime Minister, Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu and the Russian President, Mr. Vladimir Putin."

"The meetings were held in good spirits and the representatives shared a professional, open and transparent discussion on various issues. Both sides emphasized the importance of the states' interests and the continued implementation of the deconfliction system," the statement says.

"In addition, the IDF presented the ongoing Iranian attempts to establish its military presence in Syria and to transfer strategic weapons to the Hezbollah terror organization," the IDF noted. "The Israeli delegation continues its meetings and will return to Israel tomorrow morning, as planned."

Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Wednesday that Russian President Vladimir Putin in a Tuesday telephone conversation with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had agreed to allow a group of experts led by the Israeli air force chief to bring their data on the Il-20 crash to Moscow. Peskov added that as far as the downing of the aircraft was concerned, Putin was guided by information provided by the Russian Defense Ministry but Russian experts would also study the information Israel would share.


20.09.2018 - Putin, Security Council Discuss Servicemen Security in Syria After IL-20 Crash
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201809201068212174-russia-discuss-security-il20-crash/

Russian President Vladimir Putin discussed on Thursday with permanent members of the Russian Security Council the security issues of the Russian military personnel in Syria, as well as the results of the September 9 elections in Russia, cooperation with Belarus and a number of other topics, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.

"The agenda included the issue of raising the level of security of Russian servicemen in Syria after the crash of the Russian Il-20 plane near the Hmeymim base," Peskov said.

"There was an exchange of views on the results of the elections in Russia that took place on September 9," he added.

According to the Kremlin spokesman, the participants of the meeting also discussed current issues of Russia's social and economic development, as well as Russian-Belarusian cooperation ahead of Putin-Lukashenko meeting in Russia's Black Sea resort of Sochi on September 21.


They Shouldn’t Mess With Us: Shoigu Explains Why Starting a Fight With Russia is Just NOT Worth It
Published on Sep 19, 2018 (18:48 min.)

The Interview with Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu on the military maneuvers (above) Transcript:
https://russia-insider.com/en/they-...arting-fight-russia-just-not-worth-it/ri24800


Russian aircraft shot down during Israeli airstrikes - TV7 Israel News
Published on Sep 18, 2018 (10:00 min.)


Israel sends military delegation to Moscow, after downing of Russian plane - TV7 Israel News
Published on Sep 20, 2018 (10:00 min.)


The Usual Tricks! Israeli Pilots Baited Syrian Missile By Hiding Under Wing of Russian Aircraft
Published on Sep 20, 2018 (8:23 min.)


As a side note for History buff's ....

Global Security can not be achieved through conspiracies - Munich agreement which became the prelude to World War 11
Lavrov: If We Are to Learn From History, Then Secret Munich Betrayal By US/UK a Good Lesson

Published on Sep 20, 2018 (3:25 min.)
 
Adding this one that I've not seen mentioned yet (as it seems plausible to me):

FULL ANALYSIS: RUSSIAN DISINFO CAMPAIGN 'BLAMES' ISRAEL FOR IL-20 PLANE DOWNING, YET EXONERATES FRANCE - Fort Russ

Published on: Sep 19, 2018 @ 01:06 – Russia appears to be involved in an appropriate and strategically prudent disinformation campaign to avoid any further irreparable damage in Franco-Russian relations. FRN will analyze why it is most probable that France took down the Russian Il-20 military aircraft, and not the SAA air defense systems as first Israeli, and then Russian media have today begun to officially report.

It will be critical of course to establish the key necessities in making the case. Means, motive, and opportunity. Once these are established, we then proceed to establishing that this is the most probable case even as others had one, two, or even all three of these and this will be done in part by countering some of the nevertheless intelligent but imperfect reasoning now being printed regarding possible theories. In general, the pro-Russian media sphere is at this time ‘following up’ on the quite recent Russian official pronouncements that the SAA themselves accidentally shot down the Il-20, even while nominally blaming Israel and naming it ‘responsible’ for the incident.

What the Russians claim is that Israeli craft using the Il-20 for cover ‘confused’ the SAA system and that the SAA system hit the Russian Il-20. We will explain that while this is possible, it is unlikely, and in fact the least likely of any realistic scenarios given the tremendous preparation and planning that goes into these events.

Why France?

The US wants to further damage Franco-Russian relations. France under multiple governments since 2011, has called for Assad to step down, and has already threatened ‘military action’ against Syria, so relations between these two countries are already ‘ruined’. But relations between France and Syria aren’t critical for peace, stability, and the general project for Eurasian-European integration. However, Franco-Russian relations are very critical, and while it’s been noted previously by experts that the aim of the U.S is to permanently poison EU-RF relations, Russia therefore is the obvious party that has the least interest in escalating tensions or further souring relations with France.

We can see this in any number of cases, but specifically in how they dealt with the Turkish downing of the Russian plane a few years ago over Syrian skies. Their aim was to de-escalate, and ultimately show that the Turkish pilot involved was part of a directly NATO controlled part of the Turkish military that was operating, essentially ‘rogue’ and not under Erdogan’s orders. When the coup attempt happened later, this same Turkish pilot was named in that group of anti-Erdogan coup-plotters. Russia did not use the opportunity to try to further worsen ties with Turkey. In fact, they used the opportunity to eventually strengthen ties with Turkey. This was wise, and most prudent, regardless of what actual facts were in play.

Last night Lattakia was attacked by navy assets off the Syrian coast, as well as Israeli airforce, and Russia appears to be saying it was ‘also’ France insofar as they report that ‘French missile launches were detected’ during the attack. FRN is clear that Russia ‘appears’ to be saying it was France that hit Lattakia, but isn’t saying this conclusively. This point will be explained.

This is an observational approach to information sharing, rather than deductive or conclusive. It also runs the two lines of information together, without necessarily connecting them. Russian official announcements, and Russian state run or synergy media like Sputnik, have all run the story the same way – running the two lines of information together, back to back, without necessarily connecting them causally or deductively. This will be important in untangling what Russia is officially, vs. not officially saying regarding the downing of the Russian Il-20 military aircraft off the coast of Syria and the death of 15 of its crew. The following screen shot with arrows and explanation added by FRN is meant to help prove and illustrate how Russian media is approaching this question.

.



.

So we have a Russian plane downed possibly by French Naval ship, or by the SAA air defense forces protecting Lattakia itself. The second proposition is least credible. So let’s now look at how the story looks specifically about the downed Russian Il-20 military aircraft. Hopefully, in terms of the veracity of FRN’s claims, Sputnik refrains from changing its textual presentation here, so nevertheless we provide screen shots immediately below which will allow us to see two things.





One, that the pattern fits the same as the screen shot above, an event is registered as happening, and the activities of another party are named, but no connection is specifically made. Fact 1 and Fact 2 are divided. The reader is left to make of it what they will.

If this led some readers to ‘mistakenly’ conclude at first that France had something to do with the take down of the Il-20, they would, by Russian accounts, be ‘officially’ wrong, but most probably right. We can see the same Russian official method of information dissemination is used in the above screen shot, but in fact and indeed, Russia is not specifically ruling out that the registered missile launches had something to do with what hit Lattakia.

At the same time, (and this gets more complicated, but referring to the above map will help,) we propose instead that something else happened. Israeli warplanes hit Lattakia, and perhaps Israeli ground systems were also aimed and hit Lattakia (we have no reports of the latter), and perhaps also French naval vessels’ missiles hit Lattakia, but again this last point is not in fact established by Russian media per se. If Russia later revises or updates this story has events emerge, and diplomatic interactions take a certain, or more clear, or more definable direction, then perhaps Russian reportage on this will change, retroactively. But this is where the infowar stood at the time of the events, and through the early afternoon of September 18th, Belgrade time.

Secondly, readers will take note of the inclusion of the French denial. This French denial is bizarre and entirely out of place, since no one accused France. Do innocent parties randomly and yet officially deny involvement in things of which they are not formally accused? In most cases, no they do not.



The Russian Defense Ministry has shared a map of the September 17 attack in Syria.



From Sputnik, also:

<<“Israeli Side Is Fully Responsible For Il-20 Crash” – Russian defense minister

“The Russian Defense Ministry has repeatedly called on the Israeli side to refrain from attacks on Syrian territory, which threaten the security of Russian servicemen,” the Russian Defense Ministry said.

“Israel is fully responsible for the crash of the Russian Il-20 military aircraft off the coast of Syria and the death of its crew”, Russian Defense Minister Shoigu stated.

It’s highly intelligent on the part of Russia, for many reasons, that they blame Israel for this, if the option is France. Russia refuses to countenance steps leading to any war when other means are clear & available.

Arrangements are in place to obviate the possibility of any kind of inadvertant US or NATO strike on a Russian asset. The situation in Latakia was complex and all details clearly have not yet been ascertained. But outright war is no answer whatever emerges ultimately. This was the thought process of Russian authorities, and the basis as well, of their disinfo campaign.

It also makes perfect sense why they couldn’t accuse Israel of actually taking down the plane. They did not, and the physical evidence could never establish that. Those familiar with the ins and outs of the MH-17 case show that a BUK system attack is not commensurate with the physical remains of the MH-17. In that case, it was attacked by another plane, an attack plane. For these reasons, the Atlanticists have not dealt with the physical evidence, which they are in charge of, but which DPR people and independent journalists were fortunately able to collect before NATO came in and did clean up.

<<Il-20 Crash Site in Latakia Province is Located>>

“At the moment, the location of the plane’s crash is found 27 kilometers to the west of the village of Banias [Latakia province],” the ministry said.

Russian Defense Ministry Views Provocative Israeli Actions in Syria as Hostile

“We see these provocative actions of Israel as hostile,” Konashenkov said, adding that 15 Russian servicemen were killed as a result of the “irresponsible actions” of Israel’s Defense Forces, which violated “the spirit of the Israeli-Russian partnership.”>>


<<According to the spokesman, the Russian Defense Ministry reserves the right to an “adequate response” following the Israeli attack.>>
Israel has refused comment, and this makes sense. They can’t deny their planes were up there, and Russia has confused the entire FUKUS and Israeli designed script. They have to sit back and think about this one.
See, if Russia’s accepting the Western statements about Syrian friendly fire were predicted, then this would have been obvious by their early availability for comment. This means that something has happened which they need to ‘work through the variables’ to answer to.
The French ‘early denial’ when no accusation was made, means that the West had planned for France to be blamed, the French authorities were prepared to carry out their script and deny the accusations that the Russians were ‘obviously’ going to make.
Then something happened, and Russia didn’t make that accusation. But there were the French authorities, going forward with the script, and in an incoherent way which really exposes what they were up to, and tells us all quite clearly what was planned, and yet all the while Russia doesn’t at all blame France. Ridiculous, brilliant, absurd.
A critical factor here is that the whole event comes just hours after Erdogan and Putin’s meeting for a political solution concerning Idlib, them shortly after France and Israel began a bombardment campaign targeting Lattakia, Homs, Jableh & Tartous and downing a Russian Il-20 with 14 soldiers on board in a clear act of provocation, meant to further cool Franco-Russian relations.
The western MSM was the first to falsely claim that the Syrian air defense system downed the plane while actually 4 Israeli fighters or multiroles were right above in the air. But when the Russian plane was hit, it was a distant 35 KM off the Syrian coast. Russia is being prudent, for all the reasons explained here, in going along with this narrative – which much surprises the Atlanticists.
<<Kremlin Extremely Concerned About Events that Led to Il-20’s Destruction>>, more from Sputnik.
“The Israeli pilots used the Russian plane as cover and set it up to be targeted by the Syrian air defense forces. As a consequence, the Il-20, which has radar cross-section much larger than the F-16, was shot down by an S-200 system missile”
“We consider these provocative actions by Israel as hostile. Fifteen Russian military service members have died because of the irresponsible actions of the Israeli military. This is absolutely contrary to the spirit of the Russian-Israeli partnership”
While Israel is a likely enough suspect in terms of motive and opportunity, it doesn’t have the means – not means that can be established or that were verified to have been used, that is. Claiming it was Israel would require Russia to publicly divulge whether SAMS were used or not to take down the Il-20. But Russia would not be believed (honestly so) if they presented Israel as the attacker, because Israel didn’t use SAMS in that attack, Russia did not register Israeli missile launches. Only French (and, Syrian). And so the US, the Atlanticists, FUKUS and Israel, believed that Russia would blame France.
It was specifically SAMS that were used, not Israeli planes that shot down the IL-20. The data would show that, and if claiming it was Israel, then Russia would be facing a reverse MH-17 scenario, where Russia is in possession both of the launch data and of the plane wreckage, meaning that they aren’t in the position to credibly debunk the Western intelligence and MSM line that it was an ‘accidental friendly fire by the SAA’. Russia would be accused of faking the evidence if they tried to counter the claim, and it would do nothing to promote whatever response they need to make towards Israel, in revising their deconfliction agreement, or ‘partnership’.
With the US claiming that it was a SAM, and Russia having to show it was a French SAM, Russia is in the position of having to blame France, and rhetorically defend the SAA. What benefit is there in that? Russia already defends and supports the SAA. The SAA can go along with the lie, it serves the mid-term strategic objectives well, as we’ve explained.
Franco-Russian relations can get worse. It will be hard enough to see an improvement, and this is Moscow’s real desire. But relations can get worse, and exchanging accusations and for Moscow to blame Paris, will see relations get worse. Putin’s mixed support base, given the various short term and long term goals of the RF, and the various pillars of Russian power which all agree that good relations with the two EU pillars – Germany and France – is above almost all else, equal to good relations with China – allows us to understand Russia and Putin’s operating mandate.
While some may counter that Israeal and France have been firing cruise missiles at Syrian territory, missiles which are designed to attack ground targets, not take down aircraft, this point hasn’t been established or made public, nor at this point – given that Russia is following the Western MSM and intelligence narrative on this – ought we expect Russia to present anything else.
So functionally speaking, without a full disclosure on the part of the Russians towards the public, this opened up the possibility that Syria, while taking aim at “Israeli” planes may have accidentally missed it’s target, and then locked on to the Russian plane. By itself, ignoring the geopolitics, likelihood, IFF systems in place etc., this may seem credible enough to some. Unfortunately, it fails to explain the French capacity.
The Russians would have realtime data to the moment the plane was hit. Also a critical target to defeat a Russian fleet, with that plane out of the air, the information flow is handicapped on the Russian side. The entire caper could have been designed to eliminate that particular plane to see what the Russian side’s ‘plugging the gap’ capabilities are.
So this served a ‘war games’ objective, not only a PR-diplomacy-media (failed) objective.
The Russians have not, at least yet, claimed that all that France launched were SSM missiles (surface to surface), everything printed as of publishing time Belgrade, afternoon on the 18th September, indicates only that ‘Russia detected French launch of missiles’.
In fact the French vessel present, and involved in the attacks, a FREMM called the Auvergne has been equipped with missiles that can target air, by design. These are the Aster missile family, and the Auvergne as a FREMM, multipurpose frigate, is standard equipped this way by the French navy. Again, Russia did not report that it recorded that France had only launched SSM missiles.
FREMM, Auvergne
But why would Israel or France bother shooting down a Russian plane when they were already getting away with bombing Syria, without being hindered by Russia?
This is a good question, but not difficult to answer. For the reasons explained above, Russia is not Syria. Franco-Russian relations are not now, (and because of this ‘disinformation campaign’ by Russia, following the Atlanticist lead,) irreparably damaged in the mid-term.
The aim of the Atlanticists is to have France do it, have France be blamed, and to cause a massive public relations problem, that Putin would have to respond to, by naming, blaming, the French, and seeking to hold them accountable. How will the French and Russian publics, respectively, take this? Not well, and it doesn’t work well for the Eurasia project either. Macron will eventually be out, and it’s politically near-impossible to hold the leader of a country, although temporary, responsible without blaming a whole people for something. Once you throw in the work of French media spin-doctors, they will absolutely succeed in twisting it not as a Macron problem but a problem that Russia has with blaming France and all the French by extension.
The IFF system, and the situation in Syria, is not at all like the situation in the Georgian war ten years ago, when at the time there were some official Russian reports of there being difficulties separating Georgian from Russian aircraft. This is because MiGs are identical to MiGs. IFF systems at the time are not the same as today, with integrated transponders which make auto-locking impossible from the start. The Syrian Army at Lattakia does not, in reality, operate as a separate army. There, they have what is known as an integrated command, at least insofar as these issues are concerned. So the SAA couldn’t have attacked or locked onto a Russian plane, because the transponder data in real time that is part of newer IFF systems actually would mean there would have to be an intentional manual override over the computerated ‘no-lock possible’ response the S-200’s computer system would have automatically generated for a Russian plane of any kind.
The S-200 has an extremely high accuracy, not more than a bit different from the S-400 for a single target, and specifically a target of this size and speed, it would have had to ‘miss’ the Israeli plane in question, which only has a 10-15% chance of doing, but then proceed to then actually hit the Russian plane. But not only hit the Russian plane, but critically so. This is all we can ascertain once we realize that auto-locking without manual override onto the Russian plane with the IFF transponder in direct connection with the SAA (Russian joint command) at Lattakia, is practically impossible unless we say there was an American asset working at the controls of the SAA’s Lattakia computer.
But instead of reality and instead of either reality painted above, Russia accuses the Israeli fighter jet of using the Russian plane as a screen (flying in super close proximity) to draw the missile to the Russian plane. If so, that raises a whole new issue; where were the Russian interceptors? It’s not like they’d not have had time to assess and take action, other than the S-300 system, Russian fighter escorts should have had time to scramble to meet the Russian plane in case of Israeli jets flying up the coast where it should have been obvious there was a Russian Il-20 headed into the same area. On top of that, why wouldn’t the Russian plane have been rerouted?
The Putin-Erdogan deal reached yesterday indeed offers the strong probability for Syria to win without engaging in a needless conflict, and the promises of FUKUS attacks to be realized. Still, though they were anyhow, for no discernible reason given. Israel and France simply attacked in response to Turkey’s cunning move. So time is on Russia’s side.
That the aim of yesterday’s surprise attack is punishment for the Turkish ‘about face’, which FRN stated as a very likely possible outcome, (for the record), is evident in that stories from RT and Sputnik reporting on the event had official statements, and not randomly so, saying that these attacks will not deter or reverse the Turkish-Russian agreement on the final resolution of Idlib.
What’s needed now for the Atlanticists of FUKUS is to damage these relations as much as possible, Turkey vs. Russia, and Russia vs. France, and to cause Russia to blame France instead of blaming Israel.
This was a calculation, that Russia would not blame Israel due to the successful media hologram that Russia created that Israel has an inviolable special relationship (they do not, to this extent), and that instead that Russia will blame France. They did not expect Russia to accept the Western MSM Atlanticist narrative that the SAA had shot down the Russian plane either.
Between blaming France or Israel, the US expected Russia to blame France. Between blaming Syria or France, the US expected Russia to blame France. Between blaming Syria or Israel, the US expected Israel to be blamed.
They did not expect this hybrid of ‘somewhat’ blaming Israel for doing ‘tricky stuff’ in the air, the motives being hard to prove or qualify.
If Russia was to avoid an MH-17 situation in reverse, they had to think with agility. Russia has the physical evidence, the flight data, and the missile launch data. If they were going to blame France, which was mostly expected, it would have been a UNSC charade, a General Assembly charade, and a media charade with ‘Putin blaming France’ and Russia being accused of having possession of the evidence from which their case is made, and therefore the evidence being dodgy or even manufactured entirely.
The crash remains of the IL-20 are going to absolutely show that it was hit with a missile, any fragments etc. required to establish that, will show that’s an Aster missile, or similar, like the missiles used in the S-200’s. But they aren’t going to show that the impact is consistent with a small missile carried by Israeli planes, or by gun strafing from an attack plane.
This is why Russia could not blame Israel, yet they knew that Israel was involved in attacking Lattakia, and it appears that Russia is also calculating the blaming of Israel in order to do yet something else unexpected.
What that is, remains to be seen. Now Russia has the evidence in line with the western MSM, Atlanticist claims. They are blaming Israel for how the ‘friendly fire’ event took place, and can use that to achieve the same defensive mandate as they would if they blamed France.
See, blaming France doesn’t accomplish anything but a souring of relations. All that Russia could effectively do with blaming France, is to use that to justify some change of their policy on Syria, in a way that further strengthens the Russian position in Syria, and the position of Syria itself. But they do not need to blame France in order to do this. Blaming Israel for something which doesn’t require much in the way of physical evidence, and is in line with with the Western Atlanticists position (friendly fire), though a ‘message jamming’ variation of it (to the extent of derailing the point!), is sheer brilliance.
So what new doctrine Russia will introduce in the Syrian conflict will remain to be seen. Many are hoping for a blanket ‘No Fly Zone’, though how likely this is, is questionable. What is most important is that Russia avoided being lured into a PR and diplomatic catastrophe with France, which is what Atlanticists hoped for and tried to execute.
Does Israel really have a motive?
Israel’s position now in the region is so delicate, and Russia is not trying to ‘win over’ Israel at this point, not even pretending to try as they were before when creating the media-diplomatic hologram which western sources must have also bought into, for them to think that France would be blamed over Israel. Though again, the physical evidence requirement would also lend towards Russia blaming France since, well, France in fact carried out the attack.
Israel requires Russia to help, somehow, balance its interests with those of Iran and Syria. Israel had the least to gain by pushing Russia further away from Israel diplomatically, Israel would have been taking precautions not to hit Russian targets. On the other hand, since it became obvious that Russia would be protecting Syrian interests at the demilitarized zone just east of occupied Golan Heights, maybe Israel doesn’t feel they have that much to lose. Nevertheless, they didn’t shoot down the Russian Il-20. Everything points to France, on multiple levels.
 
It's not plausible to me at all. In fact most of the time while reading it I was thinking the opposite of what it said.
They want to play nice with France, which just attacked them? and instead blame.. Israel? As if nobody would care about relations to Israel. And most importantly Syria takes it silently because it wants to play nice with Russia?
It seems also more plausible to me that the syrian air defense hits the wrong air target than that french to-surface missiles hit an air target by accident. And would France launch missiles against air targets at all and risk hitting a russian plane?
Also the whole story bending isn't russian style at all.
 
Thank mrtn. I've read all the other articles including the one's written by the sott team, however the French ship firing missiles still really bugged me. The way it was presented seemed to suggest that the PTB wanted Russia to level accusations against France which they would deny, and would then feed into anti-Russian propaganda. Between 'solving the mystery' of the French ship and laying a trap for the Russians that they dodged it seemed plausible. My understanding of these things needs some work, especially when it comes to neat stories that satisfy things that bug me.
 
Redox and mrtn,

It was an odd logic to me except for the one statement if true really made me wonder and that was this:

Do innocent parties randomly and yet officially deny involvement in things of which they are not formally accused? In most cases, no they do not.

If France really offered a denial without any accusations it doesn't make much sense to me but then the convoluted logic for Russia to avoid bad relations with France is weird as well I think. :huh: Or brilliant strategy in an odd way. :-/ [afterthought] Or take the focus off of Israeli interference which has been going on a long time already.
 
Россия передаст Сирии комплекс С-300
12:0324.09.2018
(обновлено: 12:34 24.09.2018)

Translation
Russia will give Syria the s-300

12: 0324.09.2018 (updated: 12: 34 24.09.2018)
MOSCOW, 24 Sep — RIA Novosti. Russia for two weeks will give Syria a modern air defense system S-300, said defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

Taken after the death of Il-20 measures will cool the "hot heads" , said Shoigu
"It is able to intercept means of air attack at a range of more than 250 kilometers and simultaneously hit several air targets," he said.
According to Shoigu, the S-300 will significantly strengthen the combat capabilities of the Syrian air defense.

The Minister recalled that Russia in 2013 suspended deliveries of the s-300 complex to Damascus, but now the situation has changed, and not through Moscow's fault.

In addition, Russia will supply Syria with modern automated control systems for air defense command posts.

"This will ensure the centralized management of all forces and means of air defense of Syria, monitoring of the air situation and the prompt issuance of targets. Most importantly, the identification of all Russian aircraft by Syrian air defense means will be guaranteed," Shoigu stressed.

He also said that Russia will suppress satellite navigation, airborne radar systems and communication of combat aircraft attacking objects in the territory of the country in the waters of the Mediterranean sea adjacent to Syria.

The head of the defense Ministry noted that Moscow is forced to take adequate retaliatory measures because of Israel's actions to strengthen the security of the Russian military.

Shoigu expressed confidence that the actions taken by Russia "will cool " hot heads"and will keep from rash acts".

Russia can supply Syria With-300 for 2-3 months, the expert believes
Russian Il-20 was shot down on 17 September, when he returned to the base Hamim. At the same time, four Israeli F-16s attacked Syrian targets in Latakia.
According to the defense Ministry, hiding behind a Russian plane, Israeli pilots framed him under the attack of Syrian air defense. Fifteen Russian soldiers were killed.

At the same time, Israel did not warn the Russian command about the planned operation. Shoigu said that the blame for the downed Il-20 and the death of the crew lies entirely on the Israeli side.

Israel denies and blames Damascus, Iran and the Lebanese Hezbollah movement.

Россия передаст Сирии комплекс С-300
 
Ответ России, опубликованный только что, на мой взгляд, снимает вопросы о виновнике крушения Ил-20. Запланированные шаги серьезно осложнят воздушную деятельность Израиля в первую очередь. Передаваемая сирийцам система ПВО, должна была быть у них в 2013 году. Затем передача была отложена по просьбе Израиля.

Translation
Russia's response, published just now, in my opinion remove questions about the culprit of the Il-20 crash. The planned steps will seriously complicate Israeli air activity in the first place. Transferred to the Syrians air defense system, was to be with them in 2013 year. Then the transfer was postponed at the request of Israel.
 
Looks like the Israeli's are starting to bump into the reality they've created.

Liberman: Israel To Destroy S-300 Systems If Syria Employs Them
Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman claimed that Israel will destroy Russian-supplied S-300 air defense systems if Syria employs them against Israeli jets.

On September 2, the Russian Defense Ministry said that Damascus will get S-300 air defense systems within 2 weeks. Moscow will also boost air defense capabilities of the Syrian military expanding its integration with the Russian military. Russian EW systems will be also employed to prevent a threat to Russian servicemen in the war-torn country.

I don't see that happening, or them even getting close at this point - with the possible exception of a desperate attempt to destroy them before they are fully deployed. Could be an interesting two weeks.
 

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