Russia Begins Operations in Syria: End Game for the US Empire?

[goyacobol]

Putin is very upset about Turkish downing of the Russian Jet.

Putin: Downing of Russian jet over Syria stab in the back by terrorist accomplices

Turkey backstabbed Russia by downing the Russian warplane and acted as accomplices of the terrorists, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.

“This incident stands out against the usual fight against terrorism. Our troops are fighting heroically against terrorists, risking their lives. But the loss we suffered today came from a stab in the back delivered by accomplices of the terrorists,” Putin said.

Putin said the plane was hit by a Turkish warplane as it was traveling at an altitude of 6000 meters about a kilometer from the Turkish border. It was hit by an air-to-air missile launched by a Turkish F-16 jet. The crash site is four kilometers from the border. The plane posed no threat to Turkish national security, he stressed.

Putin said the plane was targeting terrorist targets in the Latakia province of Syria, many of whom came from Russia.

Russia has for a long time been aware of oil going from Syria under the control of terrorists to Turkey, Putin said. The money finances terrorist groups.

“IS has big money, hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars, from selling oil. In addition they are protected by the military of an entire nation. One can understand why they are acting so boldly and blatantly. Why they kill people in such atrocious ways. Why they commit terrorist acts across the world, including in the heart of Europe,” the Russian leader said.

The downing of the Russian warplane happened despite Russia signing an agreement with the US to prevent such incidents in Syria, Putin stressed. Turkey claims to be part of the US-led coalition fighting against IS in Syria, he added.

The incident will have grave consequences for Russia’s relations with Turkey, Putin warned.

We have always treated Turkey as not only a close neighbor, but also as a friendly nation,” he said. “I don’t know who has an interest in what happened today, but we certainly don’t.”

The fact that Turkey did not try to contact Russia in the wake of the incident and rushed to call a NATO meeting instead is worrisome, Putin said. It appears that Turkey want NATO to serve the interests of IS, he added.

Putin said Russia respects the regional interests of other nations, but warned the atrocity committed by Turkey would not go without an answer.

Putin was speaking at a meeting with King of Jordan Abdullah II in Sochi, who expressed his condolences to the Russian leader over the loss of a Russian pilot in Tuesday’s incident, as well as the deaths of Russians in the Islamic State bombing of a passenger plane in Egypt.

The two leaders discussed the anti-terrorist effort in Syria and Iraq and the diplomatic effort to find a political solution to the Syrian conflict.

Earlier a Russian Su-24 bomber was shot down by Turkish fighter jets near the Turkish-Syrian border. Turkey claimed that the plane violated Turkish airspace and did not respond to warnings. Ankara said it was rightfully acting to defend its sovereignty.

Russia insists that the plane stayed in the Syrian airspace.

One of the two pilots of the downed Russian warplane was reported killed by a rebel group as he was parachuting down on the ground after ejecting from the plane. The fate of the second pilot remains unknown.

 

[Laura]

We've been waiting for this:

Russia may resort to electronic jamming systems to protect its pilots in Syria
http://www.sott.net/article/307073-Russia-may-resort-to-electronic-jamming-systems-to-protect-its-pilots-in-Syria

That will pretty much fry the efforts of any other country including US, France, Saudi, Israel, etc...

 

[goyacobol]

We've been waiting for this:

Russia may resort to electronic jamming systems to protect its pilots in Syria
http://www.sott.net/article/307073-Russia-may-resort-to-electronic-jamming-systems-to-protect-its-pilots-in-Syria

That will pretty much fry the efforts of any other country including US, France, Saudi, Israel, etc...

I think you are right. The US just used Turkey to be the proxy patsie and this will allow Russia to clamp down even more.

 

[Laura]

Best thing everybody can do is get out on FB and Twitter and post and repost our stuff, each other's stuff, comments, outrage, etc.

 

[seek10]

We've been waiting for this:

Russia may resort to electronic jamming systems to protect its pilots in Syria
http://www.sott.net/article/307073-Russia-may-resort-to-electronic-jamming-systems-to-protect-its-pilots-in-Syria

That will pretty much fry the efforts of any other country including US, France, Saudi, Israel, etc...

I think you are right. The US just used Turkey to be the proxy patsie and this will allow Russia to clamp down even more.

Other option for Russia is to use the technology Israel used against Russian plane in Sinai against Turkish non-civilian plane an example. That will be a CLEAR message. Of course, we don't know how that technology works or its parameter etc.

 

[goyacobol]

We will see how the NATO alliance fairs in the aftermath of the shoot down.

NATO fails to show unanimity on Turkey’s shooting of Russian bomber - reports

NATO members failed to come out with a unified show of support to Turkey following an emergency meeting it called on Tuesday. There were also serious concerns about Turkish conduct and discord about the crash location, sources say.
Trends
Russian anti-terror op in Syria

Despite formal solidarity expressed by Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg in a brief low-key statement after the emergency meeting of NATO’s North Atlantic Council (NAC) called upon Turkey’s request over downing of the Russian jet bomber, there were signs of disagreement between some NATO

Stoltenberg said he certainly believes the solution could only come in “further contacts between Ankara and Moscow and […] calm and de-escalation,” having stressed NATO will rely solely on “diplomacy and de-escalation” rather than other options.

On Wednesday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told a press conference: “We also know the statement made by the [NATO] secretary general was not agreed by all [NATO members]. He, so to say, took responsibility and listened to leading NATO members.”
Lavrov added “there were quite unpleasant assessments of Turkey for [its] attack on the Russian warplane, but well-known allied solidarity has prevailed.”

"There were serious disagreements during the discussion of the Su-24 incident at the meeting. Some envoys were very cautious and reserved about Turkish complaints," the source close to NATO also told RIA Novosti.

Alliance’s diplomats who took part in NAC’s meeting also told Reuters on Tuesday that while none of the 28 NATO envoys explicitly supported Russia, many expressed concerns that Turkey did not escort the Russian combat jet out of its airspace.

"There are other ways of dealing with these kinds of incidents," said one diplomat who declined to be named, according to Reuters.

Some envoys have questioned Turkish accusations that Russian jet violated Turkey’s airspace after “repeated warnings” before ordering F-16s to attack, as Turkey had failed to present reliable evidence. The aircraft crashed on Syrian territory and several NATO members were “confident it was shot down over Syria,” according to RIA Novosti’s source.

Earlier on Tuesday, an unnamed US official told Reuters the United States believes that the Russian jet shot down by Turkey was hit inside Syrian airspace, saying this assessment was based “on detection of the heat signature of the jet.”

While NATO did not specifically endorse the Turkish attack on Russian plane – the first to be shot down by a NATO member since the Cold War – it raised fears among the alliance that Russia may retaliate proportionately.

“If that happened we would quickly be sucked into a spiral of reaction and counter-reaction,” a British military official told Voice of America, speaking on condition of anonymity as he was not authorized to talk to the media.

he Russian Su-24 bomber was shot down by Turkish F-16 jets near the Turkish-Syrian border. Turkey claimed that the plane violated Turkish airspace and did not respond to repeated warnings. Ankara said it was rightfully acting to defend its sovereignty. Russia maintains the plane had stayed entirely within Syrian airspace. One of the two pilots of the downed Russian warplane was reportedly killed by a rebel group as he parachuted to the ground after ejecting from the plane. The second airman was rescued in a 12-hour recovery operation and taken to the Russian base in Latakia. One of the marines who took part in the op was also killed.

 

[goyacobol]

Russia states the obvious again.

Downing of Russian Su-24 looks like a planned provocation - Lavrov

The downing of a Russian warplane in Syria by Turkey appears to be a pre-planned provocation, the Russian Foreign Minister said. Ankara failed to communicate with Russia over the incident, he added.

We have serious doubts that this act was unintentional. It looks very much like a preplanned provocation,” Lavrov said, citing Turkey’s failure to maintain proper communication with Russia, the abundance of footage of the incident and other evidence.

Lavrov added that many Russian partners called the incident “an obvious ambush.”

Earlier in the day, Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu slammed Russia for "attacks on Turkmen" in Syria, which according to Ankara preceded the incident with the downed Su-24.

The Russian FM said the region where the incident happened is not just home to Turkmen people. There are also hundreds of foreign fighters affiliated with known terrorist groups and elements of their infrastructure such as weapons depots and command points there, he said.

“I asked [Turkish FM Çavuşoğlu] whether Turkey’s close attention to this region, including the calls to create a buffer zone there, was motivated by a desire to protect this infrastructure from destruction. I didn’t receive any reply to this question,” Lavrov said.

He added the downing of the Russian warplane occurred shortly after a series of airstrikes on terrorist oil convoys and facilities by the Russian Air Force. The incident “sheds new light” on the issue, according to the Russian foreign minister.

The Russian diplomat criticized NATO for failing to express condolences to Russia over the loss of its troops lives.

“Very strange statements were voiced after a NATO meeting called by the Turks, which didn’t express any regret or condolences and in effect were aimed at covering up what the Turkish Air Force did yesterday,” Lavrov said. “A similar reaction came from the European Union.”

Lavrov reiterated the statements of the Russian Defense Ministry, which denied Ankara’s allegations that the Russian warplane had violated Turkish airspace.

He added that even if Turkey’s words were taken on face value, its actions contradict its own position expressed in 2012, after Syria took down a Turkish military plane. At the time, then-Prime Minister Erdogan told the Turkish parliament that a short incursion into another nation’s airspace cannot justify an attack on it.

Russia’s relations with Syria will change after the attack on the Russian plane, Lavrov said, adding that Turkey, which is now calling for dialogue, should have done more to communicate with Russia prior to and right after the incident.

Moscow will measure its response to limit the harm done to Turkish and Russian businessmen, who had nothing to do with the incident, and would decide on a proper action, Lavrov said.

“We cannot fail to react to what happened. Not because we must retaliate. It’s just that there are too many issues in Turkey that pose a direct terrorist threat to our citizens. And not only ours,” he said.

Lavrov said after canceling his planned visit to Istanbul that Moscow doesn’t indent to send any senior officials to Turkey or receive any senior Turkish officials. At the same time, phone channels remain open, as evidenced by the call with Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu.

The Russian minister said there was a question of American involvement in the downing of the Russian plane. According to his sources, the US demands all members of the anti-IS coalition led by Washington, who use US-made military aircraft, coordinate all deployments with the US military.

“I wonder if this demand of the Americans covers… Turkey. If it does, I wonder whether Turkey asked permission from the US to fly its US-made planes and take down – let’s say 'an unidentified' – plane over Syrian territory,” Lavrov said.

The senior Russian diplomat said the problems at the Turkish-Syrian border could be solved by simply closing it, as suggested by French President Francois Hollande during his meeting with US President Barack Obama in Washington.

“President Hollande suggested measures to close the Turkish-Syrian border to stop the flow of militants and finances to terrorists. It’s remarkable that President Obama didn’t react to it. I believe it’s a good suggestion and that during the visit tomorrow President Hollande will tell us details. We are prepared to consider these measures in earnest. Many people say that sealing the border would effectively eliminate the terrorist threat in Syria,” Lavrov said.

 

[bjorb]

it raised fears among the alliance that Russia may retaliate proportionately.

Hopefully the kind of fear and shock they need to start thinking clearly for a chance. Being part of NATO is dancing with the Devil. None of the NATO members expressed condolence for the Russian pilot. Says enough about them if you ask me.

btw, forum topic about this event can be found here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,40140.msg616839/boardseen.html#new

 

[Aeneas]

There is an article on Sputnik, that says that the S-400 now is deployed to Syria. As someone commented: "That was quick". If deployed means operational then it would have to have been in Syria all along and the Turkish incident just gave an opportunity to make it public what had been rumoured, but denied.

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151126/1030782946/s-400-syria-russia.html

A RIA Novosti correspondent has reported that a S-400 missile defense system has been deployed in Syria on Thursday.
Preparing to fire an S-400 Triumf anti-aircraft missile at the Ashuluk proving grounds during an Aerospace Defence Forces tactical drill
© Sputnik/ Ruslan Krivobok
S-400 in Syria: Russia Gives 'Stark Warning' to Turkey
The S-400 Triumf (NATO reporting name: SA-21 Growler) next generation surface-to-air missile systems has been deployed to the Hmeymim airbase in Syria where the Russian Aerospace Forces group is stationed.

The Russian Defense Ministry announced the deployment of the S-400 systems to Syria on Wednesday, a day after Turkish fighter jets shot down a Russian Su-24 bomber, which was taking part in Russia's anti-terror campaign in Syria.

The S-400, an upgrade of the S-300 Growler family, is a new-generation anti-aircraft defense system operated solely by the Russian military. The S-400 ensures air defense using long- and medium-range missiles that can hit aerial targets at ranges of up to 400 kilometers (almost 250 miles).

Alternatively, deployed could just mean that a S-400 unit has been earmarked and readied to go to Syria.

It will keep NATO and especially Turkey guessing and on their toes.

 

[Windmill knight]

This is from 4 days ago but I hadn't seen it before; sorry if I missed it.

http://www.voltairenet.org/article189411.html

More than 500 jihadists cared for at the Ziv Medical Centre (Israel)

Several journalists who were participating in a media tour organised by the Australia/Israel and Jewish Affairs Council (AIJAC) were able to visit the Ziv Medical Centre, in Zefat (North Israël). The hospital has at its disposal a service specialising in war traumatology. It is government-run and linked to the Israeli Defence Forces. In this context, it treats Syrian « refugees ».

While the rest of the group - the assistant chief editor of the Daily Telegraph, Ben English ; the journalist from Seven News, Alex Hart ; the political reporter from Sky News, David Lipson ; the chief editor of the Australian Financial Review, Aaron Patrick ; the head of the political column of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, Bevan Shields – followed the organisers, a famous journalist from News Corp, Sharri Markson, stayed with some of the patients in order to hear their stories. She was thus able to confirm that more than 500 of them are members of Al-Qaïda, wounded during the fighting in Syria. She was able to note the details of the manner in which they had been transfered to Israël to receive hospital care, and then sent back to continue the jihad in Syria. She was then arrested by security officers.

In September 2014, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu created a photo-op in this hospital when he came to visit and praise the Al-Qaïda jihadists.

The jihadists had kidnapped the UNO observers from the Philippines and Fiji charged with keeping an eye on the cease-fire line in occupied Golan. During negotiations for their release, the United Nations paid a ransom to Al-Qaïda which was then transferred to a bank account without provoking any international inquiry in order to identify the beneficiary. Finally, the Blue Helmets retreated, so that today, the Israeli and Syrian armies are separated not by the UNO, but by Al-Qaïda.

Added: Not surprisingly, if you search other news articles with 'Sharri Markson', you get a bunch of articles that focus on how she was detained for breaking protocol, which is of course obscuring the big point about how Israel is directly helping Syrian "rebels" topple Assad. For example:

_http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3329150/Australian-journalist-Sharri-Markson-detained-press-trip-Israeli-hospital-breaking-protocol.html
_http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/nov/22/sharri-markson-journalist-at-the-australian-in-run-in-with-israeli-security

No mention of what group they belong to, so I don't know why Voltaire decided they were al Qaeda. But it doesn't matter much since we already know there are no "moderates".

This other article notes:

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/articles/inquiry/22491-israel-al-qaeda-and-the-islamic-state-bogey

On Twitter later, Markson described the fighters as "at war with Assad and Daesh" [aka Islamic State] in Syria. This could mean the men were members of al-Qaeda in Syria, or it could meant the men were members of one of the other Syrian rebel groups, almost all of whom are allied to al-Qaeda in one way or another (apart from Islamic State, which fell out with and split from al-Qaeda, and is at war with).

However, despite al-Qaeda in Syria's turf war with Islamic State, and some tactical differences, the two groups share similar methods and ideology: the group recently praised the horrific attack on Paris, even expressing the wish that it had been Nusra that had carried it out instead of the "deviant sect".

 

[thorbiorn]

There was this article on Counterpunch:

December 1, 2015
Putin’s Revenge? The Fight for the Border
by Mike Whitney
[...]
Seen in this light, Obama’s recent request for Turkey to deploy “30,000 (troops) to seal the border on the Turkish side”, (See: Wall Street Journal) should be viewed with extreme skepticism. Clearly, Washington has not relented in its “Assad must go” policy at all, in fact, Obama reiterated that mantra less than a week ago. That means the Obama crew may be hoping that Turkish ground forces can succeed where his jihadi proxies failed, that is, that the 30,000 troops will be used to clear and hold a 60×20-mile stretch of Syrian territory that can be used as the proposed safe zone. All Turkey would need is a pretext to invade and a little bit of air cover from the USAF. It wouldn’t be the first time a false flag was used to start a war.

The bottom line is this: Putin had better move quickly before Washington and Ankara get their ducks in a row and begin to mobilize. The time to seize the border is now.

Turkey is in trouble, it is losing income from Syria and now also from trade with Russia, one can only wonder what future they are planning for.

 

[goyacobol]

it raised fears among the alliance that Russia may retaliate proportionately.

Hopefully the kind of fear and shock they need to start thinking clearly for a chance. Being part of NATO is dancing with the Devil. None of the NATO members expressed condolence for the Russian pilot. Says enough about them if you ask me.

btw, forum topic about this event can be found here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,40140.msg616839/boardseen.html#new

bjorn and Redfox,

While this topic is interesting in itself, why does it need to be diverted away from
Putin - He's giving it to the USA with both barrels.......... ?

I find it difficult to keep everything in a cohesive perspective when I have to jump back and forth to separate incidents in Putin's/Russia's attempts to make a difference in the new "timeline". This is just my opinion. Maybe these would be more useful if the topics were consolidated? It is just something that I noticed from my perspective. Even if the original topic grows very large it may be of benefit to keep the details in one topic. Maybe it is a moderator issue to be decided how to combine related topics. For me the Putin thread was a way to zero in on the events. FWIW

 

[sitting]

I find it difficult to keep everything in a cohesive perspective when I have to jump back and forth to separate incidents in Putin's/Russia's attempts to make a difference in the new "timeline". This is just my opinion.

It's my opinion as well.

I get the feeling the forum focus (this thread) has shifted to "news" -- and away from key concepts (as expounded by C's.) This is fine as long as we all understand and agree with it.

I suggest more links and less full frontal printouts. The important purely "news" items can appear on Sott perhaps ... instead of on Sott forum.

But I could be wrong.

FWIW.

 

[T.C.]

I find it difficult to keep everything in a cohesive perspective when I have to jump back and forth to separate incidents in Putin's/Russia's attempts to make a difference in the new "timeline". This is just my opinion.

It's my opinion as well.

I get the feeling the forum focus (this thread) has shifted to "news" -- and away from key concepts (as expounded by C's.) This is fine as long as we all understand and agree with it.

I suggest more links and less full frontal printouts. The important purely "news" items can appear on Sott perhaps ... instead of on Sott forum.

But I could be wrong.

FWIW.

Well, I get where you guys are coming from, however this session does come to mind:

Q: (L) Let's boil it down. Was Hitler's agenda a practice run
for a future scenario?
A: Close. Was a "testing" of the will.
Q: (L) Whose will was being tested?
A: Yours.
Q: (L) Me specifically, or the planet?
A: Latter.
Q: (L) In terms of this scenario, is there some lesson that we
can learn about what may or may not occur through this
book I have mentioned?
A: Maybe, but suggest you learn to blend mosaic
consciousness.
Q: (L) What is mosaic consciousness?
A: Thinking in internally spherical terms, rather than using
linear "point blank" approach. The whole picture is seen by
seeing the whole scene.
Q: (L) Well, I guess that is why I guess I get into so many
thought patterns...
A: Picture yourself as being at the center of a mosaic.
Q: (MM) [Incomprehensible comment about mosaics being
under repair somewhere.] (L) Okay, I know what you are
saying, but I just don't think that there is any way I can DO
this!
A: Yes you can!

I think everything being posted is important, and we need to all train ourselves to see a big a picture as possible, as things are never just black and white. The more info we can take in and then bear in mind during analyses, so as to be able to cross-reference it all, the better chance we have of seeing objective reality and the machinations of the man behind the curtain.

Sometimes when I listen to the way Joe and Niall put things together on the blog show, it astounds me. We're so programmed to think and view everything in linear ways and to NOT put things together in a connected way, but to see everything as separate. Take the mainstream media, for example. A US spokesperson or the President can say something one day and then completely contradict themselves the day after, and the sleeping masses don't even bat an eyelid.

The separateness of people's perception of reality keeps them dumb and confused and unable to see anything because everything just looks like a bunch of dots. We're here to learn how to connect them, no?

 

[bjorb]

Hi goycobal,

At that right moment when I posted that comment we had 3 topics discussing the same event. We had to divert it to one. I don’t see any problems bringing it all to one topic or separating the events by topic. Whatever works best for everyone else.