Scotland to vote on independence from UK

[Yozilla]

Some thoughts about this surge of "independence cravings" in Scotland et al:

If PTB plan to enforce one world government, one of things they would do is dismounting of National states as we know them - so this is one aspect how is independence "hype" working for them. Other could be (jet) another division in populace (btw AYEs and NAys) that can further to some bigger unrest in future - that could be used as pretext to introduce boots on ground.

Further, 4STS could harvest nicely from resulting disappointment of AYE voters.

As Ascien asked: How we even get here (out of blue?) - in this total control MATRIX at work - maybe cause it is planned by PTB to induce the false hope of freedom that would spread all over troubled regions (fractals?) in artificially created contemporary national entities that are formed on purpose in such way - maybe to start turmoils all over when it fits them (PTB) the best...

Also there is an issue of covering up the economic collapse that could start in no time.

Anyway, from my point of view ,independence (to Croatia) didn't bring anything good. War, pauperization, and utter dependence on EU, Nato,MMF $ co. Last is that Croatia has joined US alliance to fight ISIS ...

But it seems to me that independence hoax has definitively been unleashed not for benefit of masses but with much more sinister agenda on evil magicians' minds...

 

[angelburst29]

I'm totally convinced that the vote was rigged. But I'm not quite sure what to make of the entire campaign. Wouldn't any serious organizers know that everything would be done to sabotage/prevent independence at this point?

The amount of noise and disinfo about the whole issue is also mind boggling just in the last week or so. I think it's telling how much was at stake. But still don't know what to make of some of the more subtle, less obvious twists and turns online. I'm not well informed enough about Scottish background, culture, and politics to catch every piece of contradictory disinformation/misinformation.


That said, I did find the comments on SOTT and other sites that were forcefully against independence being quite self-contradictory. Like some English commentators accusing Scots of seeking welfare and handouts, not being able to be self-sufficient, etc. and then wanting them to vote "NO." If what they were accusing the Scots of was true, wouldn't they be glad to rid of them? On the other hand there was credible info, including on SOTT that the majority of wealth in UK is generated in Scotland, but distributed unfairly totally skewed for the benefit of England, and London in particular.

That last statement has a lot of "truth" in it! Scotland and the Scottish people have been kept from vital information, that could place them in a position to rid themselves of the parasites who have been extracting the life out of their economy and livelihoods and placing them under foot. Truth be known, the Scottish people don't need England nor the Queen. They need to be "Independent" as a sovereignty to guide their own affairs, especially in the World Market. Scotland is an EXTTREMELY WEALTHY COUNTRY, literally `floating` on oil and gas resources.

_http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/06/11/the-real-state-of-scotlands-oil-and-gas-reserves/

The Scottish North Sea might well be “declining“ in longitudinal terms, but the Scottish Atlantic Margin exploration is just starting. The estimates are DECC estimates to the end of 2012. The lower, central and upper estimates are quoted for each province, the Scottish Atlantic Margin estimate first, added to the Scottish North Sea estimate. The lower cumulative estimate for oil is 74 + 375 = 449 million tonnes; the central cumulative estimate is 230 + 518 = 748 million tonnes; and the cumulative upper estimate is 572 + 700 = 1,272 million tonnes. For gas, the lower cumulative estimate is 98 + 181 = 279 billion cubic metres (B.cu.m); the central cumulative estimate is 193 + 264 = 457 billion cubic metres; and the upper cumulative estimate is 413 + 410 = 823 billion cubic metres.

Looked at from this perspective, the Scottish oil and gas industry is far from “declining“, and in fact, the opposite is very much the case. The most optimistic cumulative oil and gas forecast (all Scottish oil and gas provinces) for Scottish oil and gas revenues is £4 TRILLION.

There are enough Scottish oil and gas reserves remaining, actually and potentially, to restructure the entire Scottish economy, create a Sovereign Oil Fund, and create a Scandinavian style society where the Scottish “Common Weal“ is paramount. These estimates are before we add on the oil and gas reserves from the Scottish estuaries (Firths) and Scottish onshore (mainland) oil and gas reserves (over75 million tonnes of crude oil have already been extracted from under mainland Scotland with over 35 million tonnes of crude oil still remaining in place underground in one Scottish mainland well alone).

Added to these super-massive oil and gas revenues would be the tax income one would expect from a normal, wealthy, sovereign nation (income tax, VAT, corporation tax, PRT, etc., etc.). Scotland is an EXTTREMELY WEALTHY COUNTRY, literally `floating` on oil and gas resources. It is NOT Scotland that has the problem with economic survival as an independent country. Any person who argues otherwise is either ignoring reality and the facts before them, or they are dealing in lies, deceit and conspiracy (to scare the Scottish people from aspiring to live in a wealthy, socially equitable, just, and inclusive Scotland), light years away from the bankers and financiers capitalist greed in London. Scotland has a massive bargaining chip with this vast oil and gas wealth.

These Scottish oil and gas revenues are THE `GAMECHANGER` on a mega scale. The `scare` stories on Scottish independence being run in the Scottish and English media should be run in reverse as applying to the remainder of the UK after Scottish independence, and not to a wealthy, independent, sovereign Scotland. Do the research for yourself, and join the dots the unionists don’t want you to join. The Unionist scare stories on Scottish independence are unfounded, not based on economic reality, and do not stand up to logic in the cold light of day. They are exactly what they are – scare in a load of hot air.

Note that the large oil reserves in the Clair-Ridge area, west of Shetland, in the Scottish Atlantic Margin (not the North Sea as some would have us believe), make it the LARGEST oil accumulation yet known on the Scottish Continental Shelf (SCS), larger than anything in the Scottish North Sea!!!

_http://www.activistpost.com/2014/09/city-of-london-vs-scottish-independence.html#more
When the BoE central banker states: Mark Carney: Independent Scotland must build currency reserves, he really is saying that the financial markets view the risk of the English economy greater than the potential opportunity for the Scots to establish their own banking system.

Given the Scottish economy is around £146bn (including the oil industry), this suggests that reserves totalling around £36bn would be needed if Scotland chose ‘sterlingisation’ - ie, using the pound without a currency deal.

The governor indicated that Scotland could start independence with around £15bn of reserves, depending on negotiations ahead of break-up.

 

[lainey]

Here in Edinburgh I am already seeing on facebook people posting that they don't want to hear about vote rigging/fraud any more and that they are tired of the conspiracy theorists!!!! Even though it is plain to see in the videos. It's right there in front of their faces and people are already just grumbling and getting on with it. For many it will be forgotten by next week and this saddens me deeply that we are not willing to stand up and fight for what 73% of us want for our country. Yes, petitions were signed calling for a recount/vote but it's not enough. We have been cheated and lied to and we are just lying down and taking it. I am receiving the brush off when sharing SOTT articles about vote rigging and generally trying to raise awareness :(

 

[luke wilson]

Here in Edinburgh I am already seeing on facebook people posting that they don't want to hear about vote rigging/fraud any more and that they are tired of the conspiracy theorists!!!! Even though it is plain to see in the videos. It's right there in front of their faces and people are already just grumbling and getting on with it. For many it will be forgotten by next week and this saddens me deeply that we are not willing to stand up and fight for what 73% of us want for our country. Yes, petitions were signed calling for a recount/vote but it's not enough. We have been cheated and lied to and we are just lying down and taking it. I am receiving the brush off when sharing SOTT articles about vote rigging and generally trying to raise awareness :(

If that is how people are acting, then it's not really a surprise. That's just how things are. They've known servitude since god knows when sooooooo, they just go back to what they know, it's easier. It's a manifestation of what goes inside nearly everyone, is it not? Sometimes you can make some grand attempt to change for the better, for whatever reason you fail and you go back to how you were before and continue life as you knew it...

 

[lainey]

Here in Edinburgh I am already seeing on facebook people posting that they don't want to hear about vote rigging/fraud any more and that they are tired of the conspiracy theorists!!!! Even though it is plain to see in the videos. It's right there in front of their faces and people are already just grumbling and getting on with it. For many it will be forgotten by next week and this saddens me deeply that we are not willing to stand up and fight for what 73% of us want for our country. Yes, petitions were signed calling for a recount/vote but it's not enough. We have been cheated and lied to and we are just lying down and taking it. I am receiving the brush off when sharing SOTT articles about vote rigging and generally trying to raise awareness :(

If that is how people are acting, then it's not really a surprise. That's just how things are. They've known servitude since god knows when sooooooo, they just go back to what they know, it's easier. It's a manifestation of what goes inside nearly everyone, is it not? Sometimes you can make some grand attempt to change for the better, for whatever reason you fail and you go back to how you were before and continue life as you knew it...

Yup, the path of least resistance. Easier to lay back and give up their freedoms and dignity piece by piece rather than go against the grain. The injustice continues....

 

[Paragon]

Here is an article 'debunking' the conspiracy theory for the rigging of the referendum. I haven't read it all yet but my initial impression is that there is vectoring going on here that is leading the people away from the real issue and towards lines of force that won't change much.

I also have the impression that there are many disinfo agents in general, conscious or otherwise, now being 'activated' to steer the focus onto other, seemingly important, but ineffective things.

_http://wingsoverscotland.com/our-man-on-the-scene/

Snippets...

"For example, there’s a video showing a counting table with a No sign on it with a pile of ballot papers, with the top paper showing a cross beside Yes. To the uninformed observer, this looks like Yes votes have been dumped on a table of No votes; but in reality, the pile of votes were still waiting to be split up into Yes and No at this point, and if the person making the video had bothered to check, they’d have found this out."

"Papers were double-counted, with counters working in pairs to double-check each other’s results. Every stage was scrutinised by counting agents, who had the power to step in at any point if they felt something was wrong. Occasionally a counter would put a ballot into the wrong Yes or No pile simply through human error, but this would be picked up, either straight away by the counting agent or the counter themselves, or by their colleague when the papers were recounted.

There are too many eyes watching for anything dodgy to happen, and trying to fix the count would require pretty much every single member of the counting staff to be in on the scam – and these are council workers known to both sides of the political divide."

 

[Paragon]

Some further information...

_http://thebutterflyrebellion.org/2014/09/23/the-sabotage-of-scotlands-democracy/

Quite unexpectedly it was noticed that those supporting a No vote were openly celebrating and congratulating one another almost as soon as the polls were closed. One person who called a moderator of this page at half past ten in the evening shared his suspicion that “They know something. They know they have this in the bag.” Through the early hours of the morning calls started arriving from election officials who were in a number of counting centres over Scotland claiming that they witnessed deliberate election fraud. This was, of course, merely anecdotal evidence, but it was the same story being repeated from as many as fourteen different officers – three of whom had been campaigning for a No vote. On Friday evening we were put in touch with a counting officer from Kilmarnock in East Ayrshire. She had been campaigning for Yes Scotland and had contacted us in an agitated state. Over the course of a lengthy telephone conversation she recounted what she had witnessed. She was not allowed to ensure the closure of the ballots boxes over which she had responsibility, they were moved and left unattended, eventually being transported in a van without security to the central counting station and she was not permitted to be present at their arrival to verify that these were indeed her boxes. Other election officers had contacted her to inform her of open bribery of caretakers and other security personnel at polling stations.

Overall, I am still trying to work out who the various 'players' are, and what their agenda is. I'm concerned that there is a very good COINTELPRO going on here and has infiltrated both 'sides' to play off against each other, even creating a sort of 'double false flag', ala the 911 truth movement. For me, I would place the above source as suspicious, along with the previously mentioned _wingsoverscotland.org, who are trying to 'debunk' all theories of vote rigging, thus leading to what the PTB really want, divide and conquer...

FWIW

 

[Arwenn]

As I read on SoTT's quote of the day, which says it all most eloquently:

It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes that matters.

 

[sid]

Can't blame the Scottish people for not caring much and getting back to their daily routines. What choice do they have? The whole system is rigged. You can't ask for fair treatment whilst living in captivity - such an act is foolishness. Only way is stalking as described in Castaneda's books. Improve your knowledge and learn as much as possible. An opportunity will present itself with help from the cosmos.

 

[Tristan]

Latest news on this subject Scottish Police Investigate Referendum Fraud After 'Hundreds of Uncounted Yes Votes' Found

By Damien Sharkov

Scottish police are investigating a case of electoral fraud in last month’s independence referendum after a video emerged online today of a man claiming to have found a bag of “hundreds” of voting ballots marked ‘Yes’ in a bin in Glasgow.

“Surely this is electoral fraud,” the man, who calls himself John Son of David exclaims in a video posted online, after claiming he was directed to the bag by an anonymous phone call he had received the night before.

“People that have gone out of their way, they’re spending their time going to a voting station and their vote hasn't even been counted,” he added.

Source: Newsweek http://www.newsweek.com/scottish-police-investigates-referendum-fraud-after-glaswegian-finds-bag-hundreds-274766

 

[Joe]

I think it's quite likely that the British government wanted Scotland to vote yes. If they weren't prepared to let Scotland go they would not have allowed a referendum.

You might want to read this if you haven't already done so.

http://www.sott.net/article/286355-Special-Report-Scottish-Referendum-Rigged-The-How-and-the-Why

 

[Niall]

I think it's quite likely that the British government wanted Scotland to vote yes. If they weren't prepared to let Scotland go they would not have allowed a referendum.

They've been trying to stop this referendum from happening since WW2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM0JsBjcx2E

It fits with the E.U agenda of a Europe of regions.

Scotland has been designated a region. The British govt is a devoted servant of the E.U.
The plan to break up the Uk will continue regardless of democracy. Already David Cameron is talking about more devolution for the different parts of Britain.
England will be split up into regions to render it powerless, and London is planned to become a detached city state.

By who? The 'Powers That Be'? Why would they want to weaken what is arguably the second of their 'Two Towers' (Washington and London)?

What you're witnessing are the death throes of the London regime. No one is 'planning' this - they're consequences of previous actions.

The laughable thing about this Scotland-in-EU issue is that it has been assumed by the British media, London, Brussels, and YesScotland campaign leaders that Scots want to remain part of the EU. Let's pretend that's true. The European Commission's contribution to the Scottish independence campaign was to suggest that there would be a 5-year moratorium on the admittance of new members. In other words, their message to Scotland was, "Ooh, we're not sure about letting you in... we're a prestigious club y'know... Gosh, it's gonna cost you some... Hang on, we'll get back to you."

Between the lines, by saying they would have to 'reapply' for EU membership, Brussels was threatening to expel Scots and Catalonians from the EU. Now, countries run by normal people in normal times might ordinarily accept that with glee, but the way it has been presented in Western media for the last two years is that not being in the EU is like being excommunicated from civilization.

It's all pure bluff. The EU is willing to admit Ukraine, for crying out loud! In addition, I'm sure at least some Eurocrats are aware that Scotland is "Europe's Kuwait." [See above video re Scottish oil and gas] They would be DELIGHTED for Scotland to be an EU member, given Europe's dependency on Russian energy. In fact, if an independent Scotland had been told it would have to reapply (it wouldn't have needed to; Brussels would have bent the rules because it needs Scotland), and had NOT done so, they'd have changed their tune very quickly and found some way to induce Scotland - forcibly, if necessary - to 're-enter' the EU.

It would be as simple as that if we weren't dealing with a ponerized system. There are competing interests and levels of motivation involved.The interests of the E.U are not the same as the interests of the member states. The interests of the state are not the same as the interests of politicians.

I dunno. I don't see much difference between the whole lot of them. Elites in 'The West' - the US + Canada + EU + Australia/New Zealand - all talk and behave 'as if of one mind', like some kind of zombie hive mind. Secession (to some extent or another) from the Western system is a healthy reaction to that. It's new, it's creative, and it's different. Tyrants hate new, creative and different. They want everything locked down; easier to control that way.

States like Spain which have provinces to lose will put up some resistance, but the power is in Brussels so they will be forced to give way.

Brussels is dead set against Scotland and Catalonia breaking away from their local tethers, because then they are harder to control. And the Eurocrats made their position clear very early on:

Brussels is hostile to Scottish independence 'because it is weak'
Alex Salmond's case for independence has been struck a severe blow by José Manuel Barroso
The Guardian, 11 December 2012

Europe fears Scottish independence contagion

David Cameron and his wretched Conservative Party would have stood a better chance of winning the next general election with Scotland out of the Union.

Phew! Now Brits can look forward to 10 years under Labour. How'd that work out for them last time around?

It's quite possible that the vote was rigged, and the main purpose of the referendum was to cause division and ill-feeling in order to weaken the Union. If this is the case it seems to be working.

You're suggesting this was an intended outcome? By Brussels?! Consider that the EU doesn't do anything without US permission. So then why would the US support the weakening of its only reliable ally?

No, the weakening of the Union is the natural consequence of Scots saying, "No more, we've had enough of your warmongering ways."

My respect for George Galloway has risen considerably. He hasn't lost the plot at all. If he were standing in my constituency he would have my vote, not that voting ever makes any difference.

Mine has diminished considerably. On this issue, he finds himself on the wrong side of the fence from the 'working class' he claims to represent - in both Scotland and the rest of the UK. The Westminster vote on launching Iraq War III was timed so that it came immediately after the referendum. The Western war machine's operations in Syria and Iraq began in earnest after that, once they knew 'Air-strip One' (the UK) would remain intact. At least, their operations only began to be heavily publicized after that.

It's information warfare: projecting the appearance of UK unity was important to maintaining the illusion that the Western masses support the Empire's wars. The illusion of unity, 'coalitions of the willing', and 'core coalitions' are crucial for 'legitimizing' what they do. If London suddenly had a constitutional crisis on its hands, it might not be deploying 'British' jets to bomb Iraq/Syria. But it isn't the UK's military hardware that Washington needs: it needs 'friends in war' in order to pretend that 'the world community' supports its imperial designs.

London would have had to deal with more pressing issues, and the overall Western war machine would have been negatively impacted with no dominant European ally strongly in favor of more war. The next most reliable ally for the US is France.

Given Galloway's anti-war stance and staunch defence of Muslim interests, the truly horrific thing about his irrational arguments against Scottish independence is that he has just unwittingly assisted the Empire with killing more Muslims.

 

[l apprenti de forgeron]

Given Galloway's anti-war stance and staunch defence of Muslim interests, the truly horrific thing about his irrational arguments against Scottish independence is that he has just unwittingly assisted the Empire with killing more Muslims.

Right! It's really a horrible paradox, and evident cognitive dissonance. Maybe his so strong nationalist identification has done that he remains blind to many facts that are before his eyes.
We'll have to see what happens next in Catalunia. Personally, I think the Spanish people, or Iberian, should stand united as a nation. If Catalonia becomes independent, the Catalans will have to deal with an equally corrupt government (and closely related to the Israeli oligarchy). But I understand that this is important to weaken the monarchy and the two parties that are sandwiched in the executive. I do not know yet if the consultation will take place. But even if that occurs, also could exist fraud like in the Scottish case.