Second-Oldest Gene Mutation relates Arabs, Turks, and Sephardic Jews but not Ash

[vinin]

Second-Oldest Gene Mutation relates Arabs, Turks, and Sephardic Jews but not Ashkenazi Jews

A new study has identified a gene mutation that researchers estimate dates back to 11,600 B.C., making it the second oldest human disease mutation yet discovered. http://cancer.osu.edu/mediaroom/releases/Pages/Second-Oldest-Gene-Mutation.aspx Only a mutation seen in cystic fibrosis that arose between 11,000 and 52,000 years ago is believed to be older.
The investigators described the mutation in people of Arabic, Turkish and Jewish ancestry. It causes a rare, inherited vitamin B12 deficiency called Imerslund-Gräsbeck Syndrome (IGS). The researchers say that although the mutation is found in vastly different ethnic populations, it originated in a single, prehistoric individual and was passed down to that individual’s descendents. This is unusual because such “founder mutations” usually are restricted to specific ethnic groups or relatively isolated populations.

Original paper “Ancient founder mutation is responsible for Imerslund-Gräsbeck Syndrome among diverse ethnicities“ published in the Orphanet Journal of Rare Diseases can be accessed here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3226546/?tool=pubmed

This mutation causes over 50% of the IGS cases among Arabic, Turkish, and Sephardic Jewish families, making it a primary target for genetic screening among diverse IGS cases originating from the Middle East. Thus, rare founder mutations may cause a substantial number of cases, even among diverse ethnicities not usually thought to be related.
After applying the different growth rates, the age was estimated to be between 8,050 years (95% confidence interval [CI] 6,450-11,200 years) and 19,225 years (95% CI: 14,300-28,600 years) for an average of ~13,600 years (~11,600 BC).
If the mutation originated around 11,600 BC it could explain why it is today seen in the peoples of Turkey and Jordan but not necessarily why it is only present in Jews of Sephardic roots.
We have used a series of assumptions to estimate the age range of a founder mutation in AMN that causes IGS. Judging the data conservatively, we believe that the region of origin for the mutation to be in Northern Mesopotamia (today's Eastern Turkey and Northern Iraq) some 13,600 years ago, placing it before the beginning of the Neolithic period (ca. 9,500 BC). Its exclusive presence in Sephardic Jews today could be explained by a common ancestor in an early Semitic population whose descendants contributed to that Jewish tribe as well as the Turkish and Arabic populations we recognize today. The natural history of this mutation is in agreement with recent studies that support a common but complex ancestry between Jews and non-Jews in the Middle East

I believe this confirms what I read in Laura’s publications. From other references in the article it seems that the idea of separate ancestry between Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews is landing in the mainstream science.
Although gene mutation studies may provide additional evidence for establishing human history, these studies are rare and usually include relatively small number of individuals with known genetic diseases. That may explain why other DNA changes imposed by external forces in certain populations have not been discovered.
Technically it is possible to test some the C’s messages, like first psychopath mutation 50,000 years ago or Jews genetically engineered 130,000 years ago?

 

[vinin]

Same day SOTT reported about this new finding too. However, they did not mention what I thought was the main point: that the AMN mutation was found with high frequency in Sephardic Jew only but not in Ashkenazi Jews. There is not a word about it in the original report in OSU website. You need to read the article and only at the end the authors reveal that and briefly discuss.

Since Ashkenazim are generally aware of modern genetic research, the absence of the AMN mutation c.208-2A>G among them suggested that it was never present in their founder population. The lack of c.208-2A>G in other Jewish groups of the Diaspora could have a similar explanation. Consequently, the mutation's exclusive presence among Sephardic Jews suggested that the mutation had entered that Jewish group from a non-Jewish background rather than the other way.

In addition I thought it was important mentioning that the date of the mutation is estimated as not exactly 13,600 years ago (11,600 BC) but probably is in the range between 8,050 years and 19,225 years ago. It is quite a range.

 

[monksgirl]

But doesn't the time frame for Jewish movement northward toward Khazar Empire and Europe post-date the period of this mutation? So even if it came from 'outside' it is still from founding era of the religious-adherents population, and would have been in the migrating population group? Or am I missing some other implication?

 

[mkrnhr]

Maybe there was no "Jewish movement northwards" to begin with :)

 

[SeekinTruth]

As far as I understand, the Ashkanazim ARE the Khazars -- the direct descendants of a totally different genetic group who never had a presence in Palestine.

 

[mkrnhr]

As far as I understand, the Ashkanazim ARE the Khazars -- the direct descendants of a totally different genetic group who never had a presence in Palestine.

And many clues related notably to the Franks are discussed in 911-the ultimate truth.

 

[vinin]

As far as I understand, the Ashkanazim ARE the Khazars -- the direct descendants of a totally different genetic group who never had a presence in Palestine.

And many clues related notably to the Franks are discussed in 911-the ultimate truth.

Exactly.
My point was that the science is working its way. And it is good to have independent sources pointing to same direction.

 

[SeekinTruth]

mkrnhr and I were replying to monksgirl that there was no "movement northward," etc., that the Khazars were a totally unrelated group that converted to Judaism and then spread to Eastern and then rest of Europe when their empire fell.

 

[vinin]

mkrnhr and I were replying to monksgirl that there was no "movement northward," etc., that the Khazars were a totally unrelated group that converted to Judaism and then spread to Eastern and then rest of Europe when their empire fell.

You mean Palestinian Jews did move northward and to west Europe thus forming what is now known as Sephardim, but the Ashkenazim indeed descended from the Khazars. Interestingly, authors themselves seem hesitant to say it straight upfront.
The date of the founder mutation does not preclude any later population migrations. However, it does suggest that Jews either were not genetically separated before that, or they intermixed with the Turks and/or Arabs near that time.

 

[Nienna]

mkrnhr and I were replying to monksgirl that there was no "movement northward," etc., that the Khazars were a totally unrelated group that converted to Judaism and then spread to Eastern and then rest of Europe when their empire fell.

You mean Palestinian Jews did move northward and to west Europe thus forming what is now known as Sephardim, but the Ashkenazim indeed descended from the Khazars. Interestingly, authors themselves seem hesitant to say it straight upfront.
The date of the founder mutation does not preclude any later population migrations. However, it does suggest that Jews either were not genetically separated before that, or they intermixed with the Turks and/or Arabs near that time.

There has been quite a bit written here in this forum on Ashkenazis and Khazars, you can find a lot of threads by using the search function. Also, readying Laura's Secret History of the World may be quite enlightening as she has written a bit about this subject in this book.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Yes, there's quite a bit of information on these websites about how Sephardic Jews are very closely related genetically to Arab groups but not at all to Ashkenazi Jews. The Ashkenazi genetics are very different from the Middle East groups.

 

[vinin]

mkrnhr and I were replying to monksgirl that there was no "movement northward," etc., that the Khazars were a totally unrelated group that converted to Judaism and then spread to Eastern and then rest of Europe when their empire fell.

You mean Palestinian Jews did move northward and to west Europe thus forming what is now known as Sephardim, but the Ashkenazim indeed descended from the Khazars. Interestingly, authors themselves seem hesitant to say it straight upfront.
The date of the founder mutation does not preclude any later population migrations. However, it does suggest that Jews either were not genetically separated before that, or they intermixed with the Turks and/or Arabs near that time.

There has been quite a bit written here in this forum on Ashkenazis and Khazars, you can find a lot of threads by using the search function. Also, readying Laura's Secret History of the World may be quite enlightening as she has written a bit about this subject in this book.

Again, Absolutely…
Sorry for not being in sinc.
I thought that the vision of this forum would encourage continuous research. And newest scientific results have never before been presented here would stir up old discussions from 2006.
Aside from Ashkenazi, if Mid East Jews were genetically separate group they significantly intermixed with surrounding population after the AMN mutation appeared.
Excerpt from The Grail Quest:

Q: Were the Jews that were genetically engineered and then planted in the Middle East... what year was this?
A: 130,000 years ago.
Q: Good grief! Have they managed to retain any racial purity for that long?
A: No.

 

[Nienna]

There has been quite a bit written here in this forum on Ashkenazis and Khazars, you can find a lot of threads by using the search function. Also, readying Laura's Secret History of the World may be quite enlightening as she has written a bit about this subject in this book.

Again, Absolutely…
Sorry for not being in sinc.
I thought that the vision of this forum would encourage continuous research. And newest scientific results have never before been presented here would stir up old discussions from 2006.

Yes, this is so. Research is always going on. What you wrote looked to me that you were not aware of the info that is here on the forum and in Secret History as you seemed surprised at what you had found.

 

[Graalsword]

There has been quite a bit written here in this forum on Ashkenazis and Khazars, you can find a lot of threads by using the search function. Also, readying Laura's Secret History of the World may be quite enlightening as she has written a bit about this subject in this book.

Again, Absolutely…
Sorry for not being in sinc.
I thought that the vision of this forum would encourage continuous research. And newest scientific results have never before been presented here would stir up old discussions from 2006.

Yes, this is so. Research is always going on. What you wrote looked to me that you were not aware of the info that is here on the forum and in Secret History as you seemed surprised at what you had found.

Exactly Uralsky, what you just found was already discussed a few years ago here. It is not that new research is not encouraged, it's just that this is not new to this forum, it is in an already existing old thread. Any time new things are discovered, are always welcome here.