Self-Improvement & The Work

[Pierre]

Just an update - One of my roommates is making things extremely difficult for me since I quit WoW. Since the three of us played together, she (I'll call her "Sue") is treating my quitting as a personal offense against her.

Another possible explanation to Sue's reaction is that by quitting WoW you've shaken her foundation.

If everybody around her play and enjoy WoW, everybody validates that it's the right thing to do, no guilt, no doubt, the sweet illusion can go on without questioning.

By quitting WoW you implicitly judge her world. Maybe she convinced herself this activity was right : improving typing skills, enhancing strategic thinking, quick decision making and all usual excuses.

You were acting as a mirror reinforcing her illusion, now the mirror is gone, there are cracks in the illusion and some painful questions and/or emotions might arise.

She might more or less consciously identify your withdrawal with this change in her landscape. From this perspective you would be the source of her pain and logically she shows anger against the source of this pain.

I guess all those reactions could be totally mechanical and unconscious on her part.

I hope that I was not totally in left field here and that it can help you.

 

[Argonaut]

[quote author=T.C.]
It's more likely a demonstration of how years of programming affect people. Once the programming is uploaded, WE do all the 'donkey work' for the 4D STS's.
[/quote]

T.C.,

Very true. Although they can directly act through others, it usually isn't necessary.

[quote author=T.C.]
Whether she's conscious of it or not, it just seems the fact is, 'this is the type of person she is'. She'd probably react in this manipulative way towards anyone who's choices mean she can't get what she wants.
[/quote]

Most likely, yes. There is a difference between cold, calculated, "fake" emotions and genuinely felt negative emotions... But the upshot is the same. Manipulation is manipulation, and it's in her nature. It's even in mine to a degree - I've noticed times when I've felt down or depressed because Sue was upset at me. And although I really felt the emotions, I also wanted her to notice my depression and feel bad for "causing" it. So sometimes there's a sort of mutual manipulation going on. Or attempts at it, at least.

[quote author=T.C.]
So try not to worry about her, she's got her problems and you can't do anything about that; but keep up the good work on yourself! :)
[/quote]

Yes, the work is what matters. I feel bad that I can't somehow share the work with her, because she's clearly miserable and tormented in many ways. But my few attempts were met with either indifference or mild interest that didn't lead anywhere. In general Sue thinks "my ideas" (as if I invented them, lol) are pretty out there. But I'm starting to learn the value of playing roles and maintaining a strategic enclosure. Gurdjieff knew what he was talking about when he told students to keep silent to those outside of the work. That's been one of my hardest lessons up to this point, because I've always felt that truth should be "shouted from the housetops," and I hate the idea of lying. My old religious evangelical programs still haunting me, I suppose. :) Still... I keep thinking that MAYBE Sue would pursue the work if she could truly understand its significance. But she's shown no interest, so I must honor her free will.

[quote author=anart]
It could also be that she finds it easier to take this out on you than on her husband. You quit for your own reasons - he, on the other hand, just proved that he'd rather have epic gear than hang out with his wife in-game. Instead of taking out her anger about this on him she's taking it out on you - since that is safer.
[/quote]

anart,

That's a good point. She was somewhat angry with me before her husband left the guild, but when he left it seemed to push her too far. Which makes me wonder about the timing. It's interesting that her husband kicked Sue's anger up a notch just after I quit, increasing her level of manipulation against me. But still, Sue being Sue, she seems back to normal now. Her moods shift constantly and never seem to last long. I'm betting that if I asked her if she's still angry she'd admit that she is... But until something else happens to plunge her into a foul mood she won't express it.

[quote author=anart]
Fascinating how much real life turmoil can be created by something that does not exist.
[/quote]

Definitely. I somewhat understand where Sue's feelings may come from, though - we all began WoW together and played it for almost a year, and suddenly she's playing alone. But the same could be said of drug addicts who consider taking drugs a "fun time" they share together. If one of them decides to get clean, the addict "friends" often lay on the pressure to keep the person from doing so.

[quote author=anart]
and one good EMP (think comet strike) and it all vanishes. Hmmm, I guess that could be said for sleeping humanity as well...
[/quote]

Very true. And once it's all gone, it's probably gone for good. There wouldn't be enough survivors, knowledge, or resources left to get this high-tech civilization running again, let alone rebuild it from scratch.

[quote author=Belibaste]
Another possible explanation to Sue's reaction is that by quitting WoW you've shaken her foundation.

If everybody around her play and enjoy WoW, everybody validates that it's the right thing to do, no guilt, no doubt, the sweet illusion can go on without questioning.

By quitting WoW you implicitly judge her world.
[/quote]

Belibaste,

I definitely think this is a part of it. If she accepts that I could have a good reason for quitting, she'll feel like she might be better off quitting, too.

[quote author=Belibaste]
Maybe she convinced herself this activity was right : improving typing skills, enhancing strategic thinking, quick decision making and all usual excuses.
[/quote]

I don't think she feels a need for these excuses. To her, WoW is fun and perfectly harmless. She enjoys playing it and sees no need to quit. It's pretty much that simple for her. And I suppose she might be right, since she has no interest in awakening.

[quote author=Belibaste]
She might more or less consciously identify your withdrawal with this change in her landscape. From this perspective you would be the source of her pain and logically she shows anger against the source of this pain.
[/quote]

That makes sense, yes. Sue is big on blaming others when she's upset. Every negative emotion, every "unpleasant" event is always someone else's fault. She seems to feel that her life is crap and the world's out to get her. But this is only when she's upset. When she's her "normal" self she readily admits that she overreacts - although she still thinks her angry feelings and outbursts are justified.

[quote author=Belibaste]
I guess all those reactions could be totally mechanical and unconscious on her part.
[/quote]

After knowing her for several years, I truly think this is the case. She just seems to have very little control over her emotions and reactions.

 

[Argonaut]

An update:

I've been dreaming about WoW a lot since I've quit. Usually the dreams involve me existing and doing things in the game's world, while simultaneously realizing that I'm playing a game. But last night the dream was especially interesting. It was very realistic, and in it I decided to go back to playing WoW. I was really enjoying myself, having lots of fun playing with my roommates. I was also glad because Sue (the roomie who was angry that I quit) was very happy that I came back. In the dream I also remembered this forum and my decision to quit and focus on the work... And I decided to just avoid posting in this thread anymore so nobody here would know that I started playing again. I was fully immersed in this dream, and for a few seconds after waking up I still felt as if I had truly returned to playing WoW. But then I came to my senses and realized that no, I had not actually fallen off the wagon. :)

I'm not sure what prompted this dream, but last night my roommates were having an especially good time playing WoW together. So perhaps that made me miss it. I've noticed that desite Mike leaving the guild, he and Sue seem to be playing together in WoW more than they did before I left, and having a lot more fun with it. It's really making me want to go back. Which I find strange, because up until now I've been perfectly fine since I quit. Has it just taken this long to really hit me?

 

[Helle]

Funny you should post this now, I was just going to ask how you were coping :D

So this was a nice coincidence!

There's no shame in missing the game, and feeling a wee bit left out

I do however hope you'll stick to your decision, and not let yourself be distracted from your Work.

So what are you Working on currently? - And what material are you reading ATM?
Hope I'm not too curious ;)

 

[Argonaut]

[quote author=Helle]
Funny you should post this now, I was just going to ask how you were coping :D

So this was a nice coincidence!
[/quote]

Indeed. :)

[quote author=Helle]
There's no shame in missing the game, and feeling a wee bit left out
[/quote]

I suppose not. The left out feeling is actually twofold. The first aspect is about WoW, and the second is about missing all the stuff we used to do together BEFORE WoW. While I was playing I didn't care so much, but now that I've quit I really miss it all. For Mike and Sue it's pretty much all WoW, all the time, and they have no desire to do any of the stuff we used to do.

[quote author=Helle]
I do however hope you'll stick to your decision, and not let yourself be distracted from your Work.
[/quote]

I think I will stick to it. But as for not being distracted from the work, things still get in the way sometimes. Often I find myself filling the "time void" with other activities such as watching movies. This doesn't dominate my whole life like WoW did though, so I'm still much better off. I'm reading a lot more lately, which helps keep me focused in the right direction. And I'm truly realizing just how HARD it is to self-observe and remember myself consistently. I always get distracted and stop doing it. Before, the difficulty of it wasn't really hitting me. Probably because I really wasn't trying very hard, lol.

[quote author=Helle]
So what are you Working on currently? - And what material are you reading ATM?
Hope I'm not too curious ;)
[/quote]

Right now my main focus is self-observation coupled with control of expressing negative emotions - which for me mostly consists of a weird anger/depression/paranoia combo that hits me from time to time. Especially when I think my roommates might be angry at me for something. My major negative emotion issue centers on other people getting angry with me, disapproving of me, judging me, etc. The possibility that someone might be displeased with me bothers me to an extreme, and I spend much energy worrying about it and trying to avoid it.

I recently finished reading In Search of the Miraculous and The Myth of Sanity, and I'm almost done with The Narcissistic Family. Next I'll be starting on Trapped in the Mirror. A couple of days ago I went to the local used book store and found The Sociopath Next Door, Seth Speaks, and Bringers of the Dawn, so I might also read one (or more) of those. I tend to alternate between two or three books simultaneously, lol. I was also thinking about starting on Le Mystere des Cathedrales, but I'm kinda worried that I won't really grasp what Fulcanelli is talking about, so the esoteric meaning of his words will be totally lost on me. I really want to read it, but I don't know if there's a point in reading it if I can only understand it at the surface level. Another book I may start on soon is The Complete Books of Charles Fort.... Man, I own an enormous amount of books, but I've only read about a tenth of them. I need to stop buying them faster than I can read them. ;D


[/quote]

 

[FireShadow]

I'm not sure what prompted this dream, but last night my roommates were having an especially good time playing WoW together.

Sounds like a "using dream" as we used to call them when I worked at a halfway house for drug addicts. It was fairly common in the first months of sobriety for addicts to dream of their "drug of choice". We saw it as a good sign as it was most common in those who were serious about quitting. Perhaps because those not serious about it did not need a "strong pull" to get them to relapse. The using dreams were very powerful and sometimes it could really shake someone up and undermine their commitment to quitting. I am not absolutely sure and could be wrong, but this is how we counselors saw it. So, if true, you are on the right track - hang in there!

 

[Helle]

I suppose not. The left out feeling is actually twofold. The first aspect is about WoW, and the second is about missing all the stuff we used to do together BEFORE WoW. While I was playing I didn't care so much, but now that I've quit I really miss it all. For Mike and Sue it's pretty much all WoW, all the time, and they have no desire to do any of the stuff we used to do.

Yes I can see how this could be a problem. By doing what you desire, and having fun with it might make them remember, that there's a life outside WoW though, not that it matters to your own growth in the long run, but having friends to hang out with is nice :)
Can you talk to them about what you're reading and your thoughts?

I don't have any friends to share with, that I hang out with on a regular basis, none that would in any way even try to understand.
That can make for quite a loner/outsider feeling. It also makes me feel fake. I'm actually a complete different kind of person, than I portray outwards, well, if not differently, then at least there's much much more to me, than a pretty face. Over time I've learned not to violate anyones free will (hey even my husband now!), so I simply don't share unless asked.

How do you cope around people fast asleep?

And I'm truly realizing just how HARD it is to self-observe and remember myself consistently. I always get distracted and stop doing it. Before, the difficulty of it wasn't really hitting me. Probably because I really wasn't trying very hard, lol.

It's very hard yes ! I often find my mind wandering, completely forgetting what I was observing. It's a bit embarrassing just how little control one has YET ;)

Right now my main focus is self-observation coupled with control of expressing negative emotions - which for me mostly consists of a weird anger/depression/paranoia combo that hits me from time to time. Especially when I think my roommates might be angry at me for something. My major negative emotion issue centers on other people getting angry with me, disapproving of me, judging me, etc. The possibility that someone might be displeased with me bothers me to an extreme, and I spend much energy worrying about it and trying to avoid it.

Ooh, I have that same programme running.. The 'Please Love Me programme'! Wonder where such a desire to be approved lies? Because, does it really matter?? As Long as we are true to ourselves, keeping our Aim at eye, Working hard, and doing our best to learn to serve others through self, then who cares what other people think of us..
Writing this makes me realize how big an issue this is for me..

I recently finished reading In Search of the Miraculous and The Myth of Sanity, and I'm almost done with The Narcissistic Family.

What did you think of The Myth of Sanity? I'm currently reading it, almost done. To me if has been an earthshocking readingexperience to say the least. The way Martha describes certain things, it's like she's writing about me. I always knew I might have some issues with trauma from my childhood, I just never knew, that the way I feel and behave at times, can be directly related to traumas. Guess I have some Psychological work to do, when I figure out how.

I'm also on In search of the miraculous for the second time, and it's absolutely full of AHA moments for me. Wont be the last time I read that.

I'm eventually going to read all the books recommended by the QFS, in the order they suggest. I did read many of them already, but it always seem like I understand more for each time I read a book.

Glad to hear you're hanging in there. So am I (hanging that is). ;D

 

[Argonaut]

[quote author=FireShadow]
Sounds like a "using dream" as we used to call them when I worked at a halfway house for drug addicts. It was fairly common in the first months of sobriety for addicts to dream of their "drug of choice". We saw it as a good sign as it was most common in those who were serious about quitting. Perhaps because those not serious about it did not need a "strong pull" to get them to relapse. The using dreams were very powerful and sometimes it could really shake someone up and undermine their commitment to quitting.
[/quote]

This sounds very possible... If so, it indicates that games like WoW do affect the brain exactly like a drug. Any thoughts on why it took so long after quitting for me to have this dream? I experienced a strong desire to start playing again after waking up from it. The desire lasted most of the day, although it diminished over time. I think that coming on here and posting about it helped too... It's good to have a group of people I feel accountable to.

[quote author=FireShadow]
I am not absolutely sure and could be wrong, but this is how we counselors saw it. So, if true, you are on the right track - hang in there!
[/quote]

It seems true to me. I guess if my brain is trying to sabotage my efforts, then I really am doing something right. :)

[quote author=Helle]
By doing what you desire, and having fun with it might make them remember, that there's a life outside WoW though, not that it matters to your own growth in the long run, but having friends to hang out with is nice :)
[/quote]

It's possible, yes. Although I'm a bit concerned that such a thing could be seen as manipulation. Or may actually BECOME manipulation if I'm not careful about it.

[quote author=Helle]
Can you talk to them about what you're reading and your thoughts?
[/quote]

At this point I have to say no. Sue shows mild interest (I think - she may just be humoring me, lol). But she feels that beliefs are very personal, and whatever you believe is ok if it "works" for you. And that's pretty much her final word. However, she does have a keen interest in "conspiracy theories," even devoting an entire MySpace profile to the subject (although the profile's been abandoned since WoW). So she's open to that kind of information at least.

Mike doean't really read, and he has no solid belief structure. He considers himself an Atheist, and thinks that all metaphysical concepts are idiotic. He also fancies himself a rebel against society even though he knows next to nothing about what's going on in the world (because he refuses to read). And he likes to preach his beliefs at people. Sue calls him a "closet Christian" because of his dogmatic insistance that his beliefs are 100% right, period. He has directly said that anyone who doesn't think like he does is stupid. One of Mike's theories is interesting, though - he believes that the Universe is chaotic by nature, so one should align with chaos via things like Anarchy (or his understanding of Anarchy, at least). I've tried to tell him that he's actually half right, and explained STS and STO to him... But he wasn't too interested.

So even though I've tried in the past to introduce them to ideas of Gurdjieff, Laura, and the C's, my failure record has convinced me to quit. In the interest of free will, I now keep these ideas to myself. They're both decent people, but they're so sure of their beliefs that they have no interest in what I tell them. They just don't see the importance of it.

[quote author=Helle]
I don't have any friends to share with, that I hang out with on a regular basis, none that would in any way even try to understand.
That can make for quite a loner/outsider feeling. It also makes me feel fake. I'm actually a complete different kind of person, than I portray outwards, well, if not differently, then at least there's much much more to me, than a pretty face. Over time I've learned not to violate anyones free will (hey even my husband now!), so I simply don't share unless asked.
[/quote]

This is pretty much how I feel, too. But I'm learning more about playing roles and strategic enclosures. Which is helping me understand that it's actually good to consciously pretend, in the interests of free will and self-protection. I also have a few friends who are very open to Laura and the C's ideas. We often discuss them at length. Still, all of these friends are strictly online - Except for one, whom I don't spend much time with.

[quote author=Helle]
How do you cope around people fast asleep?
[/quote]

Basically like you do - I act like "Joe Average" around them, and only share when asked. Sue and Mike are already aware of how I think - because I told them before I learned the value of keeping my mouth shut. But even with them I play it low-key now. And since they never bring any of it up, I just let it be.

[quote author=Helle]
Ooh, I have that same programme running.. The 'Please Love Me programme'! Wonder where such a desire to be approved lies? Because, does it really matter?? As Long as we are true to ourselves, keeping our Aim at eye, Working hard, and doing our best to learn to serve others through self, then who cares what other people think of us..
Writing this makes me realize how big an issue this is for me..
[/quote]

The desire probably comes from our childhood experiences with parents, peers at school, and the like. The programs just start up. Of course it doesn't matter what others think of us, but these programs don't seem to come with an "off" switch. Your intellect can know one thing, but the program lives in the emotions and they tend to ignore the intellect. It's because none of the equipment is operating properly in our machine. The emotions should be subservient to the intellect, but instead they prefer to run the whole show.

[quote author=Helle]
What did you think of The Myth of Sanity? I'm currently reading it, almost done. To me if has been an earthshocking readingexperience to say the least. The way Martha describes certain things, it's like she's writing about me. I always knew I might have some issues with trauma from my childhood, I just never knew, that the way I feel and behave at times, can be directly related to traumas. Guess I have some Psychological work to do, when I figure out how.
[/quote]

I felt the book resonated with me, as well. I was surprised at how a perfectly "normal" childhood could be a source of trauma.

[quote author=Helle]
I'm also on In search of the miraculous for the second time, and it's absolutely full of AHA moments for me. Wont be the last time I read that.
[/quote]

My recent reading was my first time through the book, although I remember a lot of it from quotes on this site. I agree that it merits several reads.

[quote author=Helle]
I'm eventually going to read all the books recommended by the QFS, in the order they suggest. I did read many of them already, but it always seem like I understand more for each time I read a book.
[/quote]

Same here. I already own quite a few of them, but there are several that I still have to read. And re-read. :)

[quote author=Helle]
Glad to hear you're hanging in there. So am I (hanging that is). ;D
[/quote]

Thanks; I'm glad to hear that you're hanging in there too.