Selfish Motivations

Well, that was quite the defensive emotional response, QueenVee, and I must admit that I don't think you use the word 'friend' in the way it is usually intended to be used. SAO's response to you explained things more concisely than I could have, so please read his response closely and try to understand what he is saying.

You are not being attacked, you are not being bombarded; you are simply having the basic facts upon which this forum is based explained to you. You are more than free to 'believe' anything you'd like to believe and 'follow any path' you'd like to follow, but please understand that this forum serves a very particular purpose and it is based on the work of G.I. Gurdjieff.

If that doesn't please you, you are always free to go elsewhere, but, please understand that just because you don't 'like' what is being explained to you does not mean that the explanations will stop. If you intend to sincerely contribute to this forum, then please take a minute to read (or re-read) the forum rules using the tab at the top of the page ( http://www.sott.net/signs/forum/misc.php?action=rules )
 
Hi QV, I just wanted to present another way of looking at what has been said. As I have also struggled with this subject in the past. In my opinion what has been indicated in this thread might be what Don Juan calls understanding the difference between unknown and the unknowable.

“Before I can explain the Indescribable Force 's emanations, I have to talk about the known, the unknown, and the unknowable.
The unknown is something that is veiled from man, shrouded perhaps by a terrifying context, but which, nonetheless, is within man's reach.
The unknown becomes the known at a given time. The unknowable, on the other hand, is the indescribable, the unthinkable, the unrealizable. It is something that will never be known to us, and yet it is there, dazzling and at the same time horrifying in its vastness. There is a simple rule of thumb: in the face of the unknown, man is adventurous. It is a quality of the unknown to give us a sense of hope and happiness. Man feels robust, exhilarated. Even the apprehension that it arouses is very fulfilling. The new seers saw that man is at his best in the face of the unknown.
The unknown and the known are really on the same footing, because both are within the reach of human perception. Seers, can leave the known at a given moment and enter into the unknown.
Whatever is beyond our capacity to perceive is the unknowable. And the distinction between it and the knowable is crucial. Confusing the two would put seers in a most precarious position whenever they are confronted with the unknowable. Most of what's out there is beyond our comprehension.”
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The Fire From Within The Teachings of Don Juan Matus

They way I understand it so far, in relation to what has been said here, The unknown is what “the work” by G.I. Gurdjieff Indicated. Understanding the machine and its working are unknown to the average man but understating it "is within man's reach". I believe what Anart was indicating to you is you are focusing on the unknowable. And the distinction between them is crucial for life here on 3d earth. And I don’t think anyone indicated “to take one teacher or teaching as absolute truth.” Just think about it from a certain perspective. I hope I have not confused the matter further by being way off.
 
QV, please note Anart said *work* of Gurdjieff. Not dogma, not assumptions or baseless declarations. In a very real way, this forum is a research forum - it is scientific in approach. As such, data, evidence, and critical analysis of same is what is utilized to progress on our path. We treat G's work as a scientist would treat the work of other scientists before him/her, or as a mathematician would do the same. We build upon the foundations established by those who have already done a lot of work in the past, have created and established the science in question (be it math, chemistry, or esoteric work), and we do not seek to re-invent the wheel any more than we seek to re-discover algebra. Of course, there is a LOT of nonsense in esoteric writings just like there is plenty of it in science and scientific writings. But this is why we look for data, evidence, and results. Just because a scientist is off his rocker doesn't mean that all science is wrong. Some scientists ARE correct, and do make objective and useful progress in their field. What differenciates them from those scientists who are wrong? The approach.

"The Work" is precisely that - it is an approach. Approach to life itself. This approach has shown itself time and time again to be exactly what is necessary to begin to wake up. But only if you understand this approach correctly, and corretly apply it. This is very difficult, considering how distorted, confused, conditioned, and ponerized we are by default. That's why we're here as a network, because the Work is almost impossible to do without the help of others. If you can understand all of the above, at least in theory, you'll give "us" a chance to prove that we're not what your emotional/defensive machine has told you we are based on your reaction to the posts. But that means that some part of you has to, at least temporarily, override this mechanical reaction, and seriously consider and critically assess what has been said, and also your own initial reaction to it, and why your mind managed to distort it. Otherwise, if your cup is already full, then you simply won't fit in with the approach and methodologies and purpose of this forum.

If you have not already, please familiarize yourself with the material on this website to get up to speed and to understand how the above approach is being applied, and the results of same. To start, I would suggest reading the Wave series here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/waveindex.htm

And the adventure series here:
http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/adventureindex.htm

Also don't forget the sott.net news website.
 
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