Session 14 October 2017

Now that the forum has entered a stage of evolution, things are getting more interesting and it is appropriate to clarify / comment on several things, I hope this is not annoying for some, but if they think my concepts are inadequate or erroneous they could manifest it and thus, to help us to understand and to understand better the general matters that are treated here. Example:

From the session on October 14, 2017.

(Pierre) You know, if you put it back in the context of the 1930s ... Gurdjieff's alone, doing all that he did, writing those ideas he had, by himself ... In this context, it's an amazing achievement. This guy is a genius.

---------------- ---------------------- ------------ -------

Genius gurdjieff?

People dealing with third density issues, exclusively, can not be classified as "geniuses." to be GENIUS you need to have something more, to be consciously connected with the 3 D., but at the same time transcend it and know how to place itself again in the third. I think that's a genius, and it's obvious that Gurdjieff was not.
 
I've been thinking a lot about the chaotic energies all around which the Cs attribute to the "Wave energies". Well, we know a LOT is going on "out there" just based on the behavior of the planet and observations of the solar system as reported to some extent by various science organizations. So we ought not to be surprised that a lot is going on amongst humans as the Cs pointed out the idea that they can reflect such energies. And we sure see plenty of evidence of that in the madness all around.

It occurs to me that we really are in a Strange Time Period and being able to recognize patterns and derive the correct interpretations is paramount. We are in the period the Cs warned us about so many years ago though we really had no way of knowing or guessing how things would develop or transpire. But we should be thankful, I think, for the warnings and the urgings to learn all we can so as to be prepared with knowledge and awareness.

And that seems to be the key: on more than one occasion the Cs said that continuous input of knowledge was a major mode of protection. I have done all I could to present everything that I have found, to urge everyone to join in the process, do the reading, network, etc, so I hope that most members of the forum are at least somewhat inoculated and prepared. But obviously, there is more and we are embarked on that more right now. I can see that it might have been fatal to place too great reliance on Gurdjieff's ideas so we need to engage in the work of sorting it all out; this may be the very process of "knowledge inputting" that will act in a protective way. Additionally, full networking and sharing of information, observations, etc will help. And that means more than just among ourselves; we need to be sending out the signal via discussions here, work on sott, activity on social media to whatever extent is possible for each and every one.

In the discussion on the Stoicism and Paul thread ( https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,43935.0.html) I opined that what might be involved with the process could be inborn genetic receivers and transmitters. It occurs to me, as I think about all everyone has written about their current states and experiences (and some of these I've gleaned from other threads on the forum as well as in face to face discussions with others here) that what is being exposed is some residual blockages to receivers/transmitters within the soul/genetic system. Maybe blockages isn't exactly the right word: noise might be better. That means that we really need to "clean our machines" as thoroughly as possible. And, as all of you must be figuring out by now, from the Collingwood/Gurdjieff thread, ( https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,44650.0.html ), in combination with the Stoicism/Paul thread, requires a special kind of second order thinking and observation.

Obviously, nobody is ever going to get it perfect and "perfect themselves", so we must rely on being networked so that the deficiencies of any individual will be compensated for by the strengths of others, and vice versa. Sincerity and dedication are supremely important. Every person must realize that any weaknesses will be exploited by the energies of chaos. Just remember the bit from the movie, "The Exorcist", toward the end, where the poor priest was tormented by the demon by being reminded of his failings. Any of us that have such will also have a way that we can be exploited and possibly our own guilt or inner pain turned against us in horribly detrimental ways. I know of what I speak here.

It's not a question of anyone thinking they need to make confession about this or that, it is more a question of knowing your weaknesses, knowing your machine, and taking some distance from it and making it work FOR you and not against you. Use second order thinking for self-observation. Use the knowledge from the books recently recommended to gain knowledge about the machine, to be fully convinced of the fact that it IS A MACHINE and that YOU, the MIND, are the master of the carriage and take control!!! Find out what you need to do to assist this process whether it be diet or supplements, or talking to others, or whatever. Be vigilant about your thoughts that come so automatically and realize that most often, if not nearly all the time, they are automatic narratives generated by the intellect to serve the baser emotions.

Somewhere further back in this thread, there was one poster who said something along the lines "I'm not going to read the books, I'll just be doing this or that which works for me..." and right away I knew that this person was doing just that: the intellect was creating a narrative to get them off the hook about doing actual work.

As you will learn from the book "Anatomy of Violence", one of the most useful things a person can do is to train their brain for focus and concentration since this actually can grow the frontal cortex, make physical changes in the brain. So "thinking with a hammer" is much more than just thinking hard or being ruthless with the self; it can be an actual practice similar to meditation, where one forces oneself to do things faster, better, longer, harder, etc. I think that this is definitely one of those things that will strengthen the receiver/transmitter system within.

Meditation is also useful. Doing things that you know are necessary, but are outside your comfort zone also signal to the machine that the master is now running the show. Very simple things like changing old, bad habits can work in this direction. Making your bed, keeping your environment clean if you are not one who normally does this can be something along this line.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts about things at the moment. We need to keep our eyes open, observe reality both within and without closely and carefully, and exert some serious effort to get rid of the noise.
 
fabric said:
Speaking of water issues, it was around the mid September when there was no water in the house at all. We went to check pump outside to see what the problem was and found the pump running full bore with bladder tank at no pressure. We shut off the pump and restarted it and everything went back to normal. What was really strange about it was where could all the water have gone during the time the pump was running? There is only one pipe coming out the pump into the bladder tank and from there it goes to the house and tees off to an outdoor sink and garden hoses. It was at least 5 or 10 minutes and who knows how long before we noticed there was no water at the faucet and the pump running. One theory we had was that the well might have dried up, but that doesn't explain why the water came back right away after restarting it. It would have needed time to replenish itself. It happened again the next day. Never had that issue before, and haven't had it since then. Very strange.

Well, it just sounds to me like some air entered the system and an air lock blocked the flow; the pump lost its prime. But where the air came from is, of course, the question.
 
caballero reyes said:
Now that the forum has entered a stage of evolution, things are getting more interesting and it is appropriate to clarify / comment on several things, I hope this is not annoying for some, but if they think my concepts are inadequate or erroneous they could manifest it and thus, to help us to understand and to understand better the general matters that are treated here. Example:

From the session on October 14, 2017.

(Pierre) You know, if you put it back in the context of the 1930s ... Gurdjieff's alone, doing all that he did, writing those ideas he had, by himself ... In this context, it's an amazing achievement. This guy is a genius.

---------------- ---------------------- ------------ -------

Genius gurdjieff?

People dealing with third density issues, exclusively, can not be classified as "geniuses." to be GENIUS you need to have something more, to be consciously connected with the 3 D., but at the same time transcend it and know how to place itself again in the third. I think that's a genius, and it's obvious that Gurdjieff was not.

I wouldn't be too hasty there. Remember, the Cs said that what was important was to learn the lessons of 3rd density in order to graduate to 4th. Obviously, this hasn't been done by a lot of people because they keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

Since you have proposed this idea, from your own head, tell us what qualifies you to propose it?
 
caballero reyes said:
Now that the forum has entered a stage of evolution, things are getting more interesting and it is appropriate to clarify / comment on several things, I hope this is not annoying for some, but if they think my concepts are inadequate or erroneous they could manifest it and thus, to help us to understand and to understand better the general matters that are treated here. Example:

From the session on October 14, 2017.

(Pierre) You know, if you put it back in the context of the 1930s ... Gurdjieff's alone, doing all that he did, writing those ideas he had, by himself ... In this context, it's an amazing achievement. This guy is a genius.

---------------- ---------------------- ------------ -------

Genius gurdjieff?

People dealing with third density issues, exclusively, can not be classified as "geniuses." to be GENIUS you need to have something more, to be consciously connected with the 3 D., but at the same time transcend it and know how to place itself again in the third. I think that's a genius, and it's obvious that Gurdjieff was not.


caballero reyes, it was said elsewhere on the forum that Gurdjieff did in fact pretty accurately describe half of all existence, the STS mode. He just didn't include the other half, which is STO. To the best of my knowledge no one else has achieved that.

As Pierre said in the section you quoted, he did this back in 1930s and only now, entire decades later, different branches of science are confirming his findings to be accurate. To me, someone who is so ahead of his time that it takes 90 years of scientific advancement to arrive at similar conclusions would classify as a genius.

IMO, he was not an average thinker. I would describe my little self as an average thinker rather than Gurdjieff, and that's on a good day ;)

It does not however make him perfect or omnipotent but to me these are not qualities of a genius.
 
Ant22 said:
OK, this is scary. I commute on the underground daily and around a month or so ago I developed some weird fear of being pushed under an underground train. Although the thought of possible "adventures" on public transport in this day and age has been there for a while, it was never anything this intense!

I think that it would be wise to choose to be paranoid in this case and stay away from the edge. Some time ago one of my colleagues shared that she was waiting for a metro train when she saw a woman just passing by another woman and casually pushing her toward the edge. There was nothing that could have prompted her to do it, and luckily nothing happened and the other woman just lost her balance a bit. But it just shows that there are psychos everywhere, so better to take care.

Scottie said:
Everybody be triply careful...

I also had a bit chaotic month. These energies probably try to enter where they are weak spots, and in my case it was through work and health. There were couple of incidents at work that had to do with case mismanagement, and some of us were fined by the clinic's management as part of the "collective punishment". It's unfair and creates additional stress and tension, but that's how things work in the clinic and unfortunately many other veterinary clinics.

And now there is another case of pet's death that can turn very ugly and potentially costly for the clinic, which means that it is potentially problematic to anyone who was working during this shift, doesn't matter if they are directly responsible or not. Beside that the clinic also experiences a wave of particularly nasty and bad online reviews. Regarding all kind of issues. Some people after seeing others complaining decided to complain regarding issues that happened in June-July! It's like we suddenly have a "troll(ey) problem", and everything is being scrutinized. Every small mistake is being noticed and magnified. Obviously such reviews not only reflect badly on the clinic's reputation, it also harms the workers, as the management is in the mood to "roll heads and empty pockets". :( But then such reviews also reflect the fact that there are things things that could be improved. So it's highly unpleasant and stressful, but also an opportunity to work on the self.

There were also couple of strange health issues. In the end of September I had to deal with a particularly strong stomach bug/virus. Something like this never happened to me before. There are usually respiratory problems, but not stomach bugs. And then this month there was a problem with my period. It got delayed for 10 days due to stress and disruption of the circadian rhythm (after working 24 hour shifts), and when it came the period was particularly violent (probably due to a "storming" estrogen).

Basically, there is indeed a feeling that it is a very tricky period, and we should tread very carefully and pay attention. :shock: Big hug and a lot of supportive thoughts to all the Chateau people, and everyone who goes through a stormy period! :hug: :hug2:
 
Last week I, too, had "unsettling" dreams. Unfortunately, I can't remember what happened in the dreams now, just that while remembering the dreams once I woke up thinking how unsettling they were, how something bad was happening during the dreams. They weren't full-blown nightmares, but something "not nice" was happening.
 
Last few weeks I had felt those chaotic energies too.
First of all, I had a bad virus or a flue I am not sure what it was and it was so violent, but lasted only 1 and a half day.
Now the whole family has similar symptoms and their condition is much worse than mine.

Then my pet parrot gets sick. It is interesting that he was very close to me. He always played with me and not so much with the other family members. The similar situation was discussed in the last session.

My dreams are very weird last time.Very vivid and sometimes chaotic and sometimes like a nightmare.
I had an unpleasant situation like a conflict at my workplace where I work with the company owner and manager.
So definitely those chaotic energies are in play now more than ever.
 
About "Trolley Problems", it reminds me of the problem of "train surfing".
A young man has just died recently after trying to surf the metro train in Paris. It is a practice more and more widespread which is then diffused on the web. :(

https://www.thelocal.fr/20171025/man-dies-after-climbing-on-to-roof-of-paris-metro-train

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9TmX-mDYJU
 
I think this is what we have been doing already over the last decade

Mikey - In my post I was not being positive or negative toward the forum or the information more of an understanding and it is now all of our understanding that there is another direction to go another understanding to come to new realization to have that give off new vibrations.

The forum has been trying to find objective information since its inception well over a decade. I think we can all agree that this is a "turning point" inflection point" a "something" point this is all I am trying to say. Not that this has not or has or should or should not be done. But that something was realized, understood and discovered we can use this to move forward in a certain way. The important thing here is the mindset. Going forward and I know a lot of the senior members and members in general have the correct mindset but as I know in modern psychology it is usual for people to hang on to sacred cows and my hope is that this does not hold anything or one back. The snake is shedding its skin the caterpillar is turning into a butterfly. Correct me if im wrong but I am approaching this new understanding/information with an embracing type of mindset all the wile being discerning and vigilant to separate the wheat from the chaff.

As I learn more and more about esoteric information and analyze it against my life lessons it seems clear to me that to truly know something is to understand it and when one understands they not only know intellectually but feel emotionally there is no black and white and I hope that this new information can lead to a better 4d STO understanding that resonates with everyone at their own level bringing them up. Understanding is relative but the understanding matches current level and current vibration and I believe (could be wrong) a new understanding can lead to a new level.

One thing that did resonate with me as true the idea that being and knowledge are best when closer than farther apart.

G's information has helped me immensely as well as other information here on the forum from other people and forum interactions. I and most of us knew he did not have the whole picture. I do not think this discredits him if we think it does then maybe its on us that we gave him too much credit or applied a polarity a this or that to his information and what he provided. He helped in a huge way that will never be measured as he continues to help as new people at new levels use his information to climb up to the next rung....this is priceless.

This is all I am going to comment on this topic in this thread as it is too important for me to hijack if anyone has something to say or wants to respond you can do so on here but I would urge you to start another thread or message me.... Cheers :)
 
luc said:
Hesper said:
As far as the 'Trolley Problem' there is a thought experiment that goes by that name. From Wikipedia:

The trolley problem thought experiment was mentioned on one of the health and wellness shows some weeks ago, though I'm not sure they used that name, but it was exactly that problem. It was pointed out that in this moral dilemma, most people opt for pulling the lever, thus saving the 5 people but killing the one other person. Interestingly, however, if the question is reframed so that you need to push the one person on the tracks to save the 5 people, most will answer they wouldn't do it.

Found out today that the thought experiment is mentioned in the health and wellness show, 'Chemtrails, Flat Earthers, and Mental Disintegration: What's wrong with these people?' Recommend the show if others haven't heard it.

Keit said:
Scottie said:
Everybody be triply careful...

I also had a bit chaotic month. These energies probably try to enter where they are weak spots, and in my case it was through work and health.

One recurring health issue I've been noticing is, other than indigestion, waking up with a migraine and accompanying nausea. Happened again last week and I was out of it for most of the day because of it. I had food poisoning or what I thought was food poisoning last year and several times since then, I've woken up with a similar migraine and nausea and just about have to sleep it off. The lack of quality sleep adds up and then I'm more prone to get it. One thing I could work on it getting to bed at a better hour.

Anyway, stay safe all!
 
Laura said:
Meditation is also useful. Doing things that you know are necessary, but are outside your comfort zone also signal to the machine that the master is now running the show.
For those who want to train control of the mind through concentration and meditation, the command to the body to be completely calm (without movement, even the smallest ones), besides breathing, enhances the effect of exercise but also discomfort.
 
Wow, what a series of weird events in France! Stay safe, everyone. :hug2:

I got sick in the last week for the first time in about 8 years. Woke up with my throat on fire and very stuffed nose two mornings in a row. The first day, it slowly went away. The next morning it was even worse, so I started taking lots of colloidal silver and vitamin C. I felt pretty horrible on and off, but wasn't running a fever (even though it felt like it at times). I've been getting over it little by little over the last couple of days (still have really thick goo blowing out of my nose and coughing up some mucus).

Last few months, I've been grieving my mother's death and it's been very intense. When my dad passed in 2011, it was much more intermittent (the overwhelming grief) whereas with my mom's passing, it's been much more concentrated. With my dad, it lasted a couple of years of still having the process complete. I'm wondering how long grieving for my mom will last.

The state of the world may seem overwhelmingly depressing, but I try to look at some of the developments of balancing out the insanity by the newly forming multi polar world led by Russia, China, and Iran for perspective. In addition, the fact that once Trump seemed to have capitulated to the Deep State, the distraction continuing with all the lies and attacks against him have actually made their nefarious intentions get delayed/neutralized. Like the Israeli plan for independence for Kurdistan to partition Iraq (and Syria) going nowhere fast. Or so I think.
 
Laura said:
I've been thinking a lot about the chaotic energies all around which the Cs attribute to the "Wave energies". Well, we know a LOT is going on "out there" just based on the behavior of the planet and observations of the solar system as reported to some extent by various science organizations. So we ought not to be surprised that a lot is going on amongst humans as the Cs pointed out the idea that they can reflect such energies. And we sure see plenty of evidence of that in the madness all around.

It occurs to me that we really are in a Strange Time Period and being able to recognize patterns and derive the correct interpretations is paramount. We are in the period the Cs warned us about so many years ago though we really had no way of knowing or guessing how things would develop or transpire. But we should be thankful, I think, for the warnings and the urgings to learn all we can so as to be prepared with knowledge and awareness.

And that seems to be the key: on more than one occasion the Cs said that continuous input of knowledge was a major mode of protection. I have done all I could to present everything that I have found, to urge everyone to join in the process, do the reading, network, etc, so I hope that most members of the forum are at least somewhat inoculated and prepared. But obviously, there is more and we are embarked on that more right now. I can see that it might have been fatal to place too great reliance on Gurdjieff's ideas so we need to engage in the work of sorting it all out; this may be the very process of "knowledge inputting" that will act in a protective way. Additionally, full networking and sharing of information, observations, etc will help. And that means more than just among ourselves; we need to be sending out the signal via discussions here, work on sott, activity on social media to whatever extent is possible for each and every one.

In the discussion on the Stoicism and Paul thread ( https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,43935.0.html) I opined that what might be involved with the process could be inborn genetic receivers and transmitters. It occurs to me, as I think about all everyone has written about their current states and experiences (and some of these I've gleaned from other threads on the forum as well as in face to face discussions with others here) that what is being exposed is some residual blockages to receivers/transmitters within the soul/genetic system. Maybe blockages isn't exactly the right word: noise might be better. That means that we really need to "clean our machines" as thoroughly as possible. And, as all of you must be figuring out by now, from the Collingwood/Gurdjieff thread, ( https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,44650.0.html ), in combination with the Stoicism/Paul thread, requires a special kind of second order thinking and observation.

Obviously, nobody is ever going to get it perfect and "perfect themselves", so we must rely on being networked so that the deficiencies of any individual will be compensated for by the strengths of others, and vice versa. Sincerity and dedication are supremely important. Every person must realize that any weaknesses will be exploited by the energies of chaos. Just remember the bit from the movie, "The Exorcist", toward the end, where the poor priest was tormented by the demon by being reminded of his failings. Any of us that have such will also have a way that we can be exploited and possibly our own guilt or inner pain turned against us in horribly detrimental ways. I know of what I speak here.

It's not a question of anyone thinking they need to make confession about this or that, it is more a question of knowing your weaknesses, knowing your machine, and taking some distance from it and making it work FOR you and not against you. Use second order thinking for self-observation. Use the knowledge from the books recently recommended to gain knowledge about the machine, to be fully convinced of the fact that it IS A MACHINE and that YOU, the MIND, are the master of the carriage and take control!!! Find out what you need to do to assist this process whether it be diet or supplements, or talking to others, or whatever. Be vigilant about your thoughts that come so automatically and realize that most often, if not nearly all the time, they are automatic narratives generated by the intellect to serve the baser emotions.

Somewhere further back in this thread, there was one poster who said something along the lines "I'm not going to read the books, I'll just be doing this or that which works for me..." and right away I knew that this person was doing just that: the intellect was creating a narrative to get them off the hook about doing actual work.

As you will learn from the book "Anatomy of Violence", one of the most useful things a person can do is to train their brain for focus and concentration since this actually can grow the frontal cortex, make physical changes in the brain. So "thinking with a hammer" is much more than just thinking hard or being ruthless with the self; it can be an actual practice similar to meditation, where one forces oneself to do things faster, better, longer, harder, etc. I think that this is definitely one of those things that will strengthen the receiver/transmitter system within.

Meditation is also useful. Doing things that you know are necessary, but are outside your comfort zone also signal to the machine that the master is now running the show. Very simple things like changing old, bad habits can work in this direction. Making your bed, keeping your environment clean if you are not one who normally does this can be something along this line.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts about things at the moment. We need to keep our eyes open, observe reality both within and without closely and carefully, and exert some serious effort to get rid of the noise.

Thank you for your post Laura, It has been alot in my mind as to how to disambiguate what G system was from the point of view of biochemistry and neurology, and I find myself thinking and thinking about what and how, what is and is not useful, what to integrate and what to leave out, how to re define and re organize everything..

I have been very intrigued personally to see what you saw, and have been reading along, (just that I am being a slow reader, and I want to get there already! specially to the book of Anatomy of evil)

I have a theory of my own that the personality is the interface between the mind and the body, the software, and the result of the conglomeration of systems.. I had to leave a post on draft because this idea may be incomplete...

One of the ideas that I think is useful is that of the Influences A & B vs genetics & epigenetics, where both concept could be integrated and re defined and enrich one another..

But I think that many of us were under the assumption that G was talking about the mind and densities as we know them, I at least was never conceiving that he was referring to strictly matter matter.

While I am reading, I am also trying to disambiguate G system form my own understanding of how things actually work at least till I get to the other lectures.
For now :lkj: :read:
 
Reply 273 from Laura.

" I wouldn't be too hasty there. Remember, the Cs said that what was important was to learn the lessons of 3rd density in order to graduate to 4th. Obviously, this hasn't been done by a lot of people because they keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

Since you have proposed this idea, from your own head, tell us what qualifies you to propose it?"

-------------------- ------------------ ----------------

It is true, Laura, we are all learning and we must do it every day, but it seems that G. did not follow this rule that we continue here in the forum and where we all try to be teachers and at the same time students, learning from others, interrelating with each other .

I imagine Gurdjieff as the Saturn planet with its satellites spinning around, but without identifying with them, instead he, as an expert in methods to destroy egos, he identified himself and much, with ego of food and drink.

Proper nutrition and Health.

When I entered the forum I was astonished at the importance given to proper nutrition and health. This is an extraordinary achievement of the forum as these issues are not extraordinarily important, but ESSENTIAL.

Gurdjieff put these matters aside and no one who puts aside or despise these matters can say that he has intelligence or that he is headed towards a better understanding of life.
The body and its due nourishment and care, as a support of life in 3D. It MUST be an essential part of anyone who says he is a master.

I apologize for not finishing expressing my ideas.
One part of what I was writing was deleted when I wanted to sort the ideas with the google translator. I will try to recover the thread of the other ideas that I was exposing and express them properly.
 

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