Session 16 August 2014


FOTCM Member
Wow, looks like will ship to Armenia! Thanks, voyageur! Plus they have lots of other herbs, tinctures, seeds, etc. I think I'm going to get some medicinal plant seeds to include for greenhouses to be built next year.


SeekinTruth said:
No, Atomas, I haven't been able to find anything yet, but I've been very short on time, so haven't looked that thoroughly. Also you may be able to get some shipped whereas I may not (Armenia not being in the EU). Good luck and I'm curious why that site has it under incense too.
Hi SeekinTruth,
it delivers the goods to Armenia as well.

Atomas said:
I did find one site that offers Mapacho in EU. _
But this tobacco is under Incenses products. I'm a bit confused by that so asked for clarification on their site. Waiting for reply. Have you been able to find any online shop offering Mapacho in EU?
I've got reply from them. Actually two from different agents :) Let me quote one of these: "We are selling it as incense. It´s real & pure Mapacho tobacco from the Shipibo and what you are going to do with it we can´t control." So I decided to give it a try and have placed an order for one piece. I will be able to comment on this in more details once, and if (everything might happen right?), I receive the parcel. I'll keep you posted.

davey72 said:
I believe this is the type of Amazonian tobacco i was referring to. I am interested in the effects experienced among those who have tried it.
Thanks davey72 for pointing us to it. From what I have read already about it I have got an impression that this would be of something extreme. An agent said it's for "diehards" :)


FOTCM Member
Thanks, Atomas. It does look like they'll ship to Armenia. Only thing is they use DHL and I'm not sure about what kind of can of worms that could open up. Only regular post office comes without hassles. Everything else is 99% sure to end up at some customs office. If you find that the product is good, I might try it anyway (until I try planting the seeds from horizon herbs next year, I'll be able to try out smoking it straight and mixing different blends with regular tobacco).


The Living Force
Iron said:
The part about "those who look only within live in a singular bubble" struck me as more literal than not.
It reminded me of a passage of some hindu book... baghavad gitã maybe. That it was possible for some, in the course of their spiritual advancement to live in a world created by the individual. That was seen as holy, but not as the ultimate goal, that as most know was to "dissolve the self into nothingness". I wonder if this "singular bubble" is a achievement of the STS soul path?

Thanks for the session
That would make sense, and fits the description of STS vs. STO graduation in The Wave Chapter 68: As Above, So Below. Along that line, there's also these remarks from older sessions:

Laura said:
October, 22 1994


A: [...] We are able to see all, not just what we want to see. Their [4D STS] failing is that they see only what they want to see. In other words, it's the highest manifestation possible of that which you would refer to as wishful thinking. And, wishful thinking represented on the fourth level of density becomes reality for that level. You know how you wishfully think? Well, it isn't quite reality for you because you are on the third level, but if you are on the fourth level and you were to perform the same function, it would indeed be your awareness of reality. Therefore they cannot see what we can see since we serve others as opposed to self, and since we are on sixth level, we can see all that is at all points as is, not as we would want it to be.
Laura said:
December 10, 1994


A: STO flows outward and touches all including point of origin, STS flows inward and touches only origin point.


FOTCM Member
Session said:
Q: (Perceval) Is it a contender for wiping out millions of people?

A: A lot, of course. Isn't it interesting the similarity between psychopaths as virii of the human kind, and the activation and spread of the infectious kind?

Q: (L) So, are you suggesting that this is one of those, "As above, so below" interactive things? That as psychopaths become more virulent and present in human society, so will Ebola become more virulent in the physiological realm? Is that what we're getting at here?

A: Yes close enough.

Q: (L) So in order to stop the progress of Ebola and any other following pathogens, human society would have to take care of the psychopathy problem? The mind virus, the Wetiko virus...

A: Yes
I just want to make a comment on the virus thing, because I'm currently reading C. Perts "Molecules of Emotion" (from the recommended reading list).

What she describes in her book is that the whole body/mind is connected via an information network by way of peptides (ligands) and their receptors, which are found all over the place in the brain, gut, endocrine system, immune system etc. They also relate to emotional states and indeed regulate the mental, emotional and bodily functions. She says that it is a non-hierarchical network, meaning that information can enter at any place in the network and affect the whole organism.

Now viruses also have properties of ligands, i.e. they can bind with receptors on cells, which she thinks is the means by which they infect those cells - in other words, viruses carry information that they can inject into the organism.

This whole information network is not a one-way street: our emotions and also our consciousness influences the balance of our ligand/receptor system and vice-versa. So in this sense, 'as above so below' maybe becomes more understandable: for example, if we are subjected to psychopathic abuse on a global level, our emotions get altered and our whole system changes. We could be depleted in certain peptides/neurotransmitters that normally would bind to certain cells, thus providing an 'opening' for viruses that bind to receptors on cells that would normally be occupied by the bodies' own ligands. So the virus infuses its 'pathological' information into the cells, just as the psychopaths infuse their pathological information to our senses, wrecking havoc to our immune system and making us more susceptible to disease.

Seen in this light, the term 'weitiko virus' might be spot on - a virus on the level of information entering our senses (which Gurdjieff said is one form of our food). It leads to bodily changes via emotions, just as a real virus infects our bodies. It is all connected via information-carrying peptides and receptors that make up the information network in our body. Pert tellingly calls these chemical substances the "link between mind and matter" - she may be unto something there.

I can highly recommend her book, it's fascinating and insightful, plus it reads like a science thriller when she tells her personal story and what she was up against in the scientific establishment.

BTW, she deceased in 2013, RIP - from her book, it seems she really was an extraordinary woman.



The Living Force
FOTCM Member

That discovery could explain a lot. I wonder if it could go both ways as from physical to psychological and vise/versa.

In Political Poenology Lobaczewski talks about the effect of drugs and inherited disease on the brain and mind and how psychopaths can take advantage of this:

Lobaczewski said:
The cytostatic drugs [11] used in treating neoplastic [12] diseases often attack the phylogenetically oldest brain tissue, the primary carrier of our instinctive substratum and basic feelings. [13] Persons treated with such drugs progressively tend to lose their emotional color and their ability to intuit a psychological situation. They retain their intellectual functions but become praise-craving egocentrics, easily ruled by people who know how to take advantage of this. They become indifferent to other people’s feelings and the harm they are inflicting upon them; any criticism of their own person or behavior is repaid with a vengeance. Such a change of character in a person who until recently enjoyed respect on the part of his environment or community, which perseveres in human minds, becomes a pathological phenomenon causing often tragic results. Could this have been a factor in the case of the Shah of Iran? Again, diagnosing dead people is problematic, and the author lacks detailed data. However, this possibility should
be accepted as a probability. The genesis of that country’s present tragedy also doubtless contains pathological factors which play ponerologically active roles.

Results similar to the above in the psychological picture may be caused by bacterial toxins or viruses. When, on occasion, the mumps proceeds with a brain reaction, it leaves in its wake a discrete pallor or dullness of feelings and a slight decrease in mental efficiency. Similar phenomena are witnessed after a difficult bout with diphtheria. Finally, polio attacks the brain, more often the higher part of the anterior horns, which was affected by the process. People with leg paresis rarely manifest these effects, but those with paresis of the neck and/or shoulders must count themselves lucky if they do not. In addition to affective pallor, persons manifesting these effects usually evidence naïveté and an inability to comprehend the crux of a matter. We rather doubt that President F.D. Roosevelt manifested some of these latter features, since the polio virus which attacked him when he was forty caused paresis to his legs. After overcoming this, years of creative activity followed. However, it is possible that his naive attitude toward Soviet policy during his last term of office had a pathological component related to his deteriorating health. Character anomalies developing as a result of brain-tissue damage behave like insidious ponerogenic factors. As a result of the above-described features, especially the above-mentioned naïveté and an inability to comprehend the crux of a matter, their influence easily anchors in human minds, traumatizing our psyches, impoverishing and deforming our thoughts and feelings, and limiting individuals’ and societies’ ability to use common sense and toread a psychological or moral situation accurately. This opens the door to the influence of other pathological characters who most frequently carry some inherited psychological deviations; they then push the characteropathic individuals into the shadows and proceed with their ponerogenic work. That is why various types of characteropathy participate during the initial periods of the genesis of evil, both on the macrosocial scale and on the individual scale of human families. An improved social system of the future should thus protect individuals and societies by preventing persons with the above deviations, or certain characteristics to be discussed below, from any societal functions wherein the fate of other people would depend upon their behavior. This of course applies primarily to top governmental positions. Such questions should be dealt with by an appropriate institution composed of people with a reputation for wisdom and with medical and psychological training. The features of brain-tissue lesions and their character disorder results are much easier to detect than certain inherited anomalies. Thus, stifling ponerogenic processes by removing these factors from the process of the synthesis of evil is effective during the early phases of such genesis, and much easier in practice.

Lobaczewski, Andrew M. (2012-09-20). Political Ponerology (A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes) (Kindle Locations 1909-1919). Red Pill Press. Kindle Edition.
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