Session 22 October 2008

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Since previous discussion was about iron and its levels it looked like you implied smoking could be beneficial for this.

Thanks for clarifying.

Well the premise is that humans who smoke are less palatable for hyperdimensional overlords of entropy. I dont know where this premise comes from but if we assume it is true we can hypothesize that (apart from nicotine STIMULATING acetilylholrine receptors ) this is because of increased iron in smokers blood ( hemoglobin opr carboxymethemoglobin) which as element might be incompatible with their biochemistry.

What I find very interesting is the fact that our bodies are perfectly designed to be so efficiently stimulated by nicotine for feelings of relaxation, sharpness, calmness, and alertness. Additionally, studies have shown that there are genes predisposing people with schizophrenia to nicotine but that is perhaps subject for other thread...
 

Niall

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
StormyKnight said:
Well the premise is that humans who smoke are less palatable for hyperdimensional overlords of entropy. I dont know where this premise comes from
Aliens Don't Like to Eat People That Smoke!

LKJ said:
Now, nicotine is a most interesting drug. Nicotine mimics one of the body's most significant neurotransmitter, acetylcholine. This is the neurotransmitter most often associated with cognition in the cerebral cortex. Acetylcholine is the primary carrier of thought and memory in the brain. It is essential to have appropriate levels of acetylcholine to have new memories or recall old memories.

I cruised the net for sources on acetylcholine and the results were positively amazing as you will see from the following excerpts:

Acetyl-L-Carnitine (ALC) is the acetyl ester of carnitine, the carrier of fatty acids across Mitochondrial membranes. Like carnitine, ALC is naturally produced in the body and found in small amounts in some foods. ...Research in recent years has hoisted ALC from its somewhat mundane role in energy production to nutritional cognitive enhancer and neuroprotective agent extraordinaire. Indeed, taken in its entirety, ALC has become one of the premiere “anti-aging” compounds under scientific investigation, especially in relation to brain and nervous system deterioration.

ALC is found in various concentrations in the brain, and its levels are significantly reduced with aging.(1) In numerous studies in animal models, ALC administration has been shown to have the remarkable ability of improving not only cognitive changes, but also morphological (structural) and neurochemical changes. ...ALC has varied effects on cholinergic activity, including promoting the release(2) and synthesis(3) of acetylcholine. Additionally, ALC promotes high affinity uptake of choline, which declines significantly with age.(4) While these cholinergic effects were first described almost a quarter of a century ago,(5) it now appears that this is only the tip of the ALC iceberg. [Gissen, VRP's Nutritional News, March, 1995]
It turns out that Alzheimer's, a veritable epidemic in our country, is directly related to low levels of acetylcholine. In Alzheimer's disease, the neurons that make acetylcholine degenerate, resulting in memory deficits. In some Alzheimer's patients it can be a 90 per cent reduction! But, does anyone suggest smoking and exercising the brain as a possible cure?

Nope. [...]

Work in the Laboratory of Neurochemistry at the Barrow Neurological Institute principally concerns molecules critically involved in such signaling called nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChR). nAChR act throughout the brain and body as "molecular switches" to connect nerve cell circuits involved in essential functions ranging from vision and memory to the control of heart rate and muscle movement.

Defects in nAChR or their loss cause diseases such as myasthenia gravis and epilepsy and can contribute to Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s diseases and schizophrenia.

nAChR also happen to be the principal targets of tobacco nicotine. ...nicotine-like medicines show promise in the treatment of diseases such as attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and Tourette’s syndrome and in alleviation of anxiety, pain, and depression, suggesting involvement of nAChR in those disorders.

...We have shown that numbers and function of diverse nAChR subtypes can be influenced by many biologically active substances, ranging from steroids to local anesthetics, and by agents acting on the extracellular matrix, the cytoskeleton, on second messenger signaling, and at the nucleus. We also have shown that chronic nicotine exposure induces numerical upregulation of many diverse nAChR subtypes via a post-transcriptional process that is dominated by effects on intracellular pools of receptors or their precursors.

Some current studies are testing our hypothesis that chronic nicotine exposure, as occurs with habitual use of tobacco products, disables nAChR and the nerve cell circuits they subserve, thereby contributing to long-lasting changes in brain and body function. [Lukas, 1999]
Now, notice in the above account how tricky they were when they said that nicotine ..." That is jargon for "it increases the number of receptors" as well as the amount of acetylcholine. But, of course, the AMA wouldn't let them get away with any of their work if they weren't adding that they have a hypothesis that "habitual use of tobacco products... disables acetylcholine." Never mind that in the beginning they are proposing it as a therapeutic drug for some of the very problems that have risen to almost epidemic numbers in the present time.

Let's say it again: Research shows, however, that daily infusions of nicotine actually INCREASE the number of acetylcholine receptors by up to 40 %. Some researchers, such as the above, brush this finding off by saying "regardless, their function diminishes." But that is not empirically observed. Most people who smoke find a "set point," and once they have reached it, it does not take more and more and more to satisfy it.

How does nicotine act?

There are two major types (or classes) of acetylcholine receptors in the body, and they are commonly named by the other drugs which bind to them: nicotine and muscarine. Muscarinic acetylcholine receptors (mAChRs) can bind muscarine as well as ACh, and they function to change the metabolism...

Acetylcholine acts on nicotine acetylcholine receptors to open a channel in the cell's membrane. Opening such a channel allows certain types of ions (charged atoms) to flow into or out of the cell. ...When ions flow, there is an electrical current, and the same is true in the nervous system. The flowing of ions, or the passing of current, can cause other things to happen, usually those "things" involve the opening of other types of channels and the passing of information from one neuron to another.

Nicotinic AChRs are found throughout the body, but they are most concentrated in the nervous system (the brain, the spinal cord, and the rest of the nerve cells in the body) and on the muscles of the body (in vertebrates).

We say that nicotine acts like ACh at the receptors to activate them, and both substances are called agonists. The opposite type of drug, something that binds to the receptors and does not allow them to be activated is called an antagonist.

...When a substance comes into the body that can interfere with ACh binding to muscle nAChRs, that chemical can cause death in a relatively short time (because you use muscles to do things like breathe). A class of chemicals in snake and other poisonous venoms, neurotoxins, do exactly that. If you are bitten by a krait or a cobra, for example, and enough venom gets into the blood, there will be enough of their neurotoxin in your body to shut down the diaphragm muscle expands your lungs. Without that muscle functioning, the person ceases to breathe and dies of asphyxiation.

One of the reasons we know so much about these receptors is precisely that--plants and people have used substances [acetylcholine antagonists] which cause paralysis and asphyxiation for a long time. Plants use them to prevent being eaten by herbivores. Animals use similar substances to paralyze their prey. At least one human neuromuscular disease is related to nAChRs, and that is myasthenia gravis...

So, as you can see, nAChRs are important to life. ...All known nicotinic receptors do share some common features. They are composed of 5 protein subunits which assemble like barrel staves around a central pore. ...When the ligand (ACh or nicotine) binds to the receptor, it causes the receptor complex to twist and open the pore in the center. [Pugh]
Now, ... did you notice that it says that "animals use similar substances [acetylcholine antagonists or ANTI-nicotine] to paralyze their prey? We have to wonder about the oft reported conditions of paralysis associated with "alien interactions" and the almost rabid attack on smoking in our society. [...]

Alcohol is a great pretender and can fool at least four types of receptors. It blocks the acetylcholine receptors... However, unlike nicotine which also binds to the acetylcholine receptors, alcohol doesn't do anything useful while there. It simply sits there and blocks the ability to think. It also acts like cocaine in that it blocks the dopamine reuptake, flooding the brain with "feeling good." Alcohol stimulates the release of endorphins, thus resembling morphine and heroin to a greatly lessened extent, and it modifies and increases the efficiency of the seretonin receptors.

All that in one brew! Gee, it almost makes you want to go and have a few beers! [...]

It seems that the key to this is the fact that learning, hard thinking and pondering, requires that certain brain chemicals - usually acetylcholine - be squirted out at just the right place and in the right quantities. It is becoming clear that the molecules of memory are blind to the kind of memory - whether it is conscious or unconscious - that is occurring. What determines the quality of different kinds of memories is not the molecules that do the storing but the systems in which those molecules act. If they act in the hippocampus, the memories that get recorded are factual and accessible to our consciousness. If the chemicals are acting in the amygdala, they are emotional and mostly inaccessible to conscious awareness.

Working memory, or awareness, involves the frontal lobes of the brain just above and behind the eyebrows. This is what we use when we want to remember a new phone number just long enough to dial it, or to remember what we went to the kitchen for long enough to get it! It is also the place where many different kinds of information is held simultaneously while we are comparing one thing to another. We can have all kinds of things going on there at once. We can look at something, hold this image in working memory along with the memory of something that we have pulled out of long term memory which we wish to compare it to; sounds, smells, and even the ongoing physiological input from our system as we are considering this: does it make us feel peaceful, happy, sad, afraid? ...

As it happens, the cortical connections to the amygdala are actually far greater in primates than in other animals. It seems that more balanced cortical pathways are the evolutionary trend. It is my opinion that we will develop them or perish. A more harmonious integration of emotion and thinking would allow us to both know our TRUE feelings, and why we have them, and to be able to use them more effectively.
 

fabric

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
anart said:
The Gunslinger said:
Perhaps the question would be better phrased: "If someone were to have low blood iron would it hinder magnetization of the centres" - I would guess yes. All the more reason to have a healthy diet and to keep the machine in good working order.
Why would you guess yes?

I didn't really know the answer so I took a guess as I thought that there might have been a relationship between the two. As Laura pointed out, I was taking it a bit too literally. I haven't read Gnosis in it's full scope (just bits and pieces) yet either... it's next on the list.
 

Madara Horseman

Jedi
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
Increasing the iron is, of course, a different matter.

I'm not sure that it is even necessary or desirable to increase the iron.
Yeps, not unless one has inborn anemia like me(not absolutely sure though if i still have it) which seems to be an odd thing when looking at the bigger picture after having read all those materials on iron/magnetite. :huh:
 

anart

The Living Force
The Gunslinger said:
I didn't really know the answer so I took a guess as I thought that there might have been a relationship between the two. As Laura pointed out, I was taking it a bit too literally. I haven't read Gnosis in it's full scope (just bits and pieces) yet either... it's next on the list.
That makes sense, I was just wondering if you had other reason to. Thanks. :)
 

Ruth

The Living Force
Alan Ford ;) said:
Yeps, not unless one has inborn anemia like me(not absolutely sure though if i still have it) which seems to be an odd thing when looking at the bigger picture after having read all those materials on iron/magnetite. :huh:
Can you tell us a little about your inborn anemia? I would also like to know how come you're not sure whether you still have it, too? :)

I've found a nice definition of what it is:
Lewis's Med/Surg Nursing said:
Anaemia is a deficiency in the number of erythrocytes (red blood cells [RBCs]), the quantity of haemoglobin and/or the volume of packed RBCs (haematocrit). It is a prevalent condition with many diverse causes, such as blood loss (haemorrhage), impaired production of erythrocytes, or increased destruction of erythrocytes. Because RBCs transort oxygen, erythrocyte disorders can lead to tissue hypoxia. This hypoxia accounts for many of the signs and symptoms of anaemia. Anaemia is not a specific disease; it is a maniestation of a pathological process. Anaemia is identified and classified by laboratory diagnosis. Once anaemia is identified, further investigation is done to determine its cause.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
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FOTCM Member
Stormy Knight said:
Since previous discussion was about iron and its levels it looked like you implied smoking could be beneficial for this.
It may have looked that way to YOU, but that is because you ASSUMED without thinking. That means some kind of emotion was running your thinking. Care to divulge?

Stormy Knight said:
Well the premise is that humans who smoke are less palatable for hyperdimensional overlords of entropy. I dont know where this premise comes from ... {snip}
That means you either have not read the transcripts and The Wave or you didn't retain what you read. I'm really curious about why you would want to be a member of a forum that discusses material that you obviously know so little about?
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
It may have looked that way to YOU, but that is because you ASSUMED without thinking. That means some kind of emotion was running your thinking. Care to divulge?
well there isn't really much to divulge, I read your statement
"Smoking also increases the number of red blood cells and the capacity of the blood to carry iron."
and was THINKING what were you trying to say with it. The way you stated it and the context of previous discussion led to the conclusion that you were trying to say this effect of smoking is supposed to be a good thing either in relation to iron availability and overall iron levels, or in relation to psychic abilities. Since I know nothing about the later I simply wanted to state that this increase in RBC has very little beneficial effect at least according to available biochemical data , that is all there is to it.
After your explanation I understand that you wanted to say that smoking has beneficial effect only after it is interrupted. I cannot say anything about this as at this moment I don't have any data on average lifespan of human erythrocytes.

Laura said:
That means you either have not read the transcripts and The Wave or you didn't retain what you read. I'm really curious about why you would want to be a member of a forum that discusses material that you obviously know so little about?
Guilty as charged, I never claimed I read all the CS transcripts. I read good part of them jumping from one session to another depending on what would catch my fancy while browsing through them. I still do when time permits.

As far as the Wave is concerned I read most of it and yes I haven't retained everything I read. The material is so excessive and one would need to be some kind of savant to retain all that has been said there, or at least so it seems to me. Having said this I am aware that this is my personal impression and that I might be intellectually inferior in comparison to those who are capable of memorizing each and every portion of the transcripts and wave.

As for why would I want to be the member of this forum - I suppose because it is the only place I know of where unusual subjects such as these may be discussed and more over where my views, beliefs, programs etc. can be tested and challenged. That is it in a nutshell.
 
[quote author=Laura]That means some kind of emotion was running your thinking.[/quote]

[quote author=Stormy Knight]As far as the Wave is concerned I read most of it and yes I haven't retained everything I read. The material is so excessive and one would need to be some kind of savant to retain all that has been said there, or at least so it seems to me. Having said this I am aware that this is my personal impression and that I might be intellectually inferior in comparison to those who are capable of memorizing each and every portion of the transcripts and wave.

As for why would I want to be the member of this forum - I suppose because it is the only place I know of where unusual subjects such as these may be discussed and more over where my views, beliefs, programs etc. can be tested and challenged. That is it in a nutshell.
[/quote]

Well the highlighted portions in RED are emotional thinking and running of programs.
 

Gandalf

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Stormy Knight said:
As far as the Wave is concerned I read most of it and yes I haven't retained everything I read. The material is so excessive and one would need to be some kind of savant to retain all that has been said there, or at least so it seems to me. Having said this I am aware that this is my personal impression and that I might be intellectually inferior in comparison to those who are capable of memorizing each and every portion of the transcripts and wave.
Mai i say that this sentence has a odor of manipulation.

Laura has never said "memorizing each and every portion of the transcripts". She said "retain".

And i might be way out, but you have posted so far more than 800 messages. One would think after that number of posts, that you should know the material !!!

Again, i might be wrong, but there is an odor of frustration in your latest posts. Why ?
 

Pierre

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
SN said:
As for why would I want to be the member of this forum - I suppose because it is the only place I know of where unusual subjects such as these may be discussed and more over where my views, beliefs, programs etc. can be tested and challenged.
Hi Stormy Knight,

This forum is indeed a unique place where one has the opportuniy to learn about his programs, including emotional thinking. But, of course this learning can only happen if the member exercises his free will and decides to learn about the program that is shown to him.


SN said:
Laura said:
It may have looked that way to YOU, but that is because you ASSUMED without thinking. That means some kind of emotion was running your thinking. Care to divulge?
well there isn't really much to divulge,
Laura showed very gently a potential program that was ruling the last post of yours and it's your choice not to talk about it.

However it's paradoxical to state meanwhile that the main reason why you're in this forum is to learn about your programs.
 

Oxajil

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
fwiw:

Stormy Knight said:
Guilty as charged, I never claimed I read all the CS transcripts. I read good part of them jumping from one session to another depending on what would catch my fancy while browsing through them. I still do when time permits.
Jumping from one transcript to another might be interesting, but much of it might be understood differently, because you don't read it in the right context, which is explained in The Wave, Adventure series etc.

Stormy Knight said:
As far as the Wave is concerned I read most of it and yes I haven't retained everything I read. The material is so excessive and one would need to be some kind of savant to retain all that has been said there, or at least so it seems to me. Having said this I am aware that this is my personal impression and that I might be intellectually inferior in comparison to those who are capable of memorizing each and every portion of the transcripts and wave.
I think that no one is capable of remembering everything one has ever read, this is simply what the machine does. One I knows what another I doesn't know. That's why people do the Work and try to Work on themselves. You say that you have read most of The Wave, are you planning to finish it or will you keep jumping from one transcript to another? As you have said 'Since I know nothing about the later' then perhaps you could ask where you could find more data or you could use the search button.
 

Ruth

The Living Force
Stormy Knight said:
I read your statement
"Smoking also increases the number of red blood cells and the capacity of the blood to carry iron."
and was THINKING what were you trying to say with it. The way you stated it and the context of previous discussion led to the conclusion that you were trying to say this effect of smoking is supposed to be a good thing either in relation to iron availability and overall iron levels, or in relation to psychic abilities. Since I know nothing about the later I simply wanted to state that this increase in RBC has very little beneficial effect at least according to available biochemical data , that is all there is to it.
After your explanation I understand that you wanted to say that smoking has beneficial effect only after it is interrupted. I cannot say anything about this as at this moment I don't have any data on average lifespan of human erythrocytes.
Their average lifespan of a erythrocyte is 120 days. It is probable, that one of the body's responses to a decrease of available oxygen (and this could be caused by a number of things) - is to produce more erythrocytes!

Of course smoking may not be good for everbody. Those with respiratory ailments and problems with their circulation may find it unhelpful.
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Belibaste said:
Laura showed very gently a potential program that was ruling the last post of yours and it's your choice not to talk about it.

However it's paradoxical to state meanwhile that the main reason why you're in this forum is to learn about your programs.
Hi Belibaste,  I think I mentioned everything I can see.
It is still not clear to me what kind of program has Laura "very gently" shown to me.

Emotional thinking?
Hmm I would have imagine that her statement about the smoking would have appeal to all my emotions.
Firstly I enjoy smoking very much and from that emotional place I would have only welcome Laura's statement.
Secondly I have deep respect for Laura's intellect, hard work and the amount of information she makes available for general public on a daily bases.
From the place of that emotion  it was actually a big struggle to point out that something she wrote didn't make much sense.

I cannot see anything else.

As for Namaste accusations of manipulation,  one of the dictionary entries for the verb 'retain' says:
2 : to keep in mind or memory which to me is basically the same thing as 'memorize ' but I might be wrong.

There a parts of Wave and transcripts that I remember every day and actually remind myself of them , there are parts that I have copied and highlighted and hanged on my fridge, but then there are pars which I just don't remember as if I  never read it before. I realized this when I  started reading the Wave for the second time - I knew I read all the parts before, but when I was going over certain portions it was like seeing this material for the first time in my life.
 

vinny

The Living Force
Stormy Knight said:
Belibaste said:
Laura showed very gently a potential program that was ruling the last post of yours and it's your choice not to talk about it.

However it's paradoxical to state meanwhile that the main reason why you're in this forum is to learn about your programs.
Hi Belibaste, I think I mentioned everything I can see.
It is still not clear to me what kind of program has Laura "very gently" shown to me.
this is one clue. You put "very gently" in quotes. it shows that you don't consider it was gentle, so something is going on.

Emotional thinking?
Hmm I would have imagine that her statement about the smoking would have appeal to all my emotions.
it is important to identify situations that would, as you say, appeal to your emotions. These are the situations which will cloud one's judgement - which looks to be the case here.

Firstly I enjoy smoking very much and from that emotional place I would have only welcome Laura's statement.
Secondly I have deep respect for Laura's intellect, hard work and the amount of information she makes available for general public on a daily bases.
From the place of that emotion it was actually a big struggle to point out that something she wrote didn't make much sense.

I cannot see anything else.

As for Namaste accusations of manipulation, one of the dictionary entries for the verb 'retain' says:
2 : to keep in mind or memory which to me is basically the same thing as 'memorize ' but I might be wrong.
Manipulation means attempting to exercise control over another, in order to get a particular outcome.

There a parts of Wave and transcripts that I remember every day and actually remind myself of them , there are parts that I have copied and highlighted and hanged on my fridge, but then there are pars which I just don't remember as if I never read it before. I realized this when I started reading the Wave for the second time - I knew I read all the parts before, but when I was going over certain portions it was like seeing this material for the first time in my life.
remembering all parts of the wave, as if you are some kind of human encyclopedia is not the issue. you are missing the point again. It is the tone of your words that is what you seem to not be able to see, which I would suggest means you are lying to yourself and your self-importance is emotionally invested in / identifying with the discussion. re-read the posts by xman and namaste, and look at your words which they highlighted.
 
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