Session 23 August 2025

[John G]

@Mrs. Peel @Musicinventor

The C’s said in response to Musicinventor’s question about emotions that it might help to follow a different artistic direction.

My instant and gut response to this exchange was the idea that Musicinventor’s music is progressive and complex, with unconventional time signatures and tonal modulations. But when irjO asked about types of music that might be beneficial for creating a relaxed state, the C’s said “pentatonic scale”, which for a composer of music might be regarded as the simplest of pallets to paint from.

So I just thought that maybe Musicinventor should consider the idea that simplifying his works and focusing more on the deep feelings that can be accessed through the simple relationship between two intervals - themselves taken from a simplified scale - might be the way to go.

I’m sure Musicinventor will understand if I reference the progression in the history of jazz, where bebop - which was extremely complicated and difficult to play, the reason for which has been explained in terms of wanting jazz as an art form and the musicians who played it, to gain respect and kudos from the more traditional musical establishment - lead to Miles Davis exploring the impact that a single note can make on a listener, culminating in the pieces he arranged for the “Kind of Blue” sessions, which were the antithesis of bebop.

Maybe this isn’t at all in line with what takes Musicinventor’s breath away, but I just wanted to share that idea, anyway.

What's interesting is that epic progressive and blues guitar solos can be very pentatonic based. You would think they would be more freelancing a lot but they must be going for a certain feel.

 

[seiw83]

Great session much love to you all. Wonder zone of 4d crack in Ukrainę.

 

[Gwenllian]

Me alegra saber que estamos protegidos. Bueno, los comprometidos con la expansión del conocimiento. Me gustaría pensar que yo también.

Yandex translation: I am glad to know that we are protected. Well, those committed to the expansion of knowledge. I'd like to think that I would too.

Hi @Vicamino. Could you please check whether your posts are in English or use a translator like Yandex for example? Thank you.

 

[Cici]

Thank you for the session. Best wishes to everyone

 

[Evan]

@Mrs. Peel @Musicinventor

The C’s said in response to Musicinventor’s question about emotions that it might help to follow a different artistic direction.

My instant and gut response to this exchange was the idea that Musicinventor’s music is progressive and complex, with unconventional time signatures and tonal modulations. But when irjO asked about types of music that might be beneficial for creating a relaxed state, the C’s said “pentatonic scale”, which for a composer of music might be regarded as the simplest of pallets to paint from.

So I just thought that maybe Musicinventor should consider the idea that simplifying his works and focusing more on the deep feelings that can be accessed through the simple relationship between two intervals - themselves taken from a simplified scale - might be the way to go.

I’m sure Musicinventor will understand if I reference the progression in the history of jazz, where bebop - which was extremely complicated and difficult to play, the reason for which has been explained in terms of wanting jazz as an art form and the musicians who played it, to gain respect and kudos from the more traditional musical establishment - lead to Miles Davis exploring the impact that a single note can make on a listener, culminating in the pieces he arranged for the “Kind of Blue” sessions, which were the antithesis of bebop.

Maybe this isn’t at all in line with what takes Musicinventor’s breath away, but I just wanted to share that idea, anyway.

When I think of pentatonic scales, my mind immediately goes to David Gilmour. Take Shine On You Crazy Diamond, or Echoes. Epic pentatonic masterpieces imo. Or some deep cuts of live Allman Brothers. Proof that they are limitless. I can wander all day in that most basic of scales. You don’t have to be Zappa (though you could), but you can drift and dream all kinds of ways.

 

[MJF]

And this is what is being missed. As a war continues and one side continues to be attrited at an increasing rate, the death toll can begin to rise exponentially for various reasons.

Yes, you only have to compare the war losses of the Germans and the Soviets in the Second World War to see that this is quite possible. Many scholars put the Soviet death toll as high as 25 million (including civilians) against I think 3 million (from memory) for the Germans yet both sides used similar weaponry during that conflict.​

 

[axj]

Many scholars put the Soviet death toll as high as 25 million (including civilians) against I think 3 million (from memory)

The difference was not quite that extreme: about 3-4 million German soldiers killed on the Eastern front vs about 8-12 million Soviet soldiers.

 

[MJF]

This is quite interesting Ogygia/Gogland. In the Gulf of Finland there is an island called Gogland (Goge/Goghe on old maps, but the etymology of the island's name is unclear), about 180 km from St. Petersburg. This is the westernmost point of Russia (not counting the remote Kaliningrad region). Gogland is a rather isolated place and you would not be able to swim away from it (like Odysseus). The waters here are cold and treacherous, it is very easy to drown. To the north-east of Gogland there is a chain of small rocky (granite) islands with vegetation in the form of trees and bushes. These are the so-called Skerries (Scheria country?). The entire northern coast of the Gulf of Finland is cut by skerries, hundreds of small islands.
If you had a raft, then from Gogland you would sail along the skerries, without losing sight of the land, and in 2-3 weeks you would sail to Kronstadt, followed by the Neva Bay and St. Petersburg.
In the piggy bank of interesting coincidences:
Princess Nausicaa (daughter of King Alcinous) / Nevskaya (mouth of the Neva River). Odysseus was found by the princess at the mouth of the river.

P.S. I forgot to add that this smells a little crazy. Odysseus in St. Petersburg.
Besides, the climate of St. Petersburg is very different from the Greek one: pine forest and swamps with mosquitoes in summer, knee-deep snow in winter. Yes, you don't have grapes, olives and other things like in Greece.

Yes and the climate of Cambridge (England) is nothing like southern Greece either but this is where Iman Wilkens placed Troy in his book Where Troy Once Stood. So, on this basis why should the St Petersburg region not be Scheria? Is there evidence to suggest that this area was occupied 3,500-4,000 years ago?

 

[MJF]

The difference was not quite that extreme: about 3-4 million German soldiers killed on the Eastern front vs about 8-12 million Soviet soldiers.

Yes, but many Russian soldiers died in captivity as well and there were huge civilian losses mainly from starvation and the affects on health caused by malnutrition (suppressing the immune system etc.). Hence, I was not just considering the death toll on the battle front.

 

[Ant22]

Yes, you only have to compare the war losses of the Germans and the Soviets in the Second World War to see that this is quite possible. Many scholars put the Soviet death toll as high as 25 million (including civilians) against I think 3 million (from memory) for the Germans yet both sides used similar weaponry during that conflict.​

The difference was not quite that extreme: about 3-4 million German soldiers killed on the Eastern front vs about 8-12 million Soviet soldiers.

@axj the 8+ million Soviet deaths refers to soldiers only. Most sources quote the total Soviet death toll including civilians at around 23 million.

As for German losses, most sources provide a figure of around 5 million soldiers and depending on source 6.5 - 9 million total deaths including civilians. I just did a quick search to double check the numbers and this is what's being quoted out there. This one seems reliable: Research Starters: Worldwide Deaths in World War II

So the difference in numbers is in fact quite stark in deed. It may be partially due to the fact that during WW2 the Soviet Union consisted of 15 countries, not just Russia. But even then it is in fact a significant difference. Especially that most of the Soviet Union country members weren't very big in terms of population back then, so the main contribution to that number comes from only a few members.

 

[axj]

Yes, but many Russian soldiers died in captivity as well and there were huge civilian losses mainly from starvation and the affects on health caused by malnutrition (suppressing the immune system etc.). Hence, I was not just considering the death toll on the battle front.

The military casualties in captivity are included in those numbers. Since we were comparing military losses I did not include the civilian numbers, which were indeed staggering.

 

[MJF]

And then I remember this:

May 27, 2000

question: This was something that was bugging me, and somebody sent an e-mail asking the same question, so I thought I would toss it in here. What is the origin of the Finns. They are quite different from their neighbors, and something of a puzzle.

A: Tribal split in transit.

Q: (L) What tribe?

A: In other words, "you take the high road and I'll take the low road..."

Q: (L) Are they split off from the Hungarians? Were the Hungarians and the Finns originally the same tribe?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) And what is the origin of the Hungarians and Finns before they split?

A: Carpathian zone.

Q: (L) Now, you have them in a locator, what is the origin of their genotype since they sort of stand out alone?

A: What do you propose?

Q: (L) I guess that they were another experimental creation. A genetic "tweak," so to speak.

A: Works for us. [Laughter.]

I had the same thoughts too as you did about the origins of the Finns. As to them being genetically tweaked hybrids, it is curious that the Hungarian language is supposed to be the most similar European language to ancient Sumerian, which suggests a distant connection to the Sumerians. It is curious to note here that the C's once told us that the Sumerians were involved with the 4D STS Antareans in trying to create a new race of Nephilim giants at Baalbek in Lebanon:
​

Q: Who built the city of Baalbek?

A: Antereans and early Sumerians. We meant Atlanteans. {Who are the Antereans?}

Q: What is the reason for the enormous proportions of this building?

A: Giants.

Q: Who were the giants?

A: Genetic effort to recreate Nephalim.

Q: Did the Atlanteans and Sumerians succeed in recreating the Nephilim?

A: No.

So, were the ancient Sumerians also involved in creating the Finnish/Hungarian race, which, if this was the case, might perhaps explain why their language is reminiscent of ancient Sumerian? And the STS Antareans seem to have history here too since they were the also driving force behind Hitler's attempts to create a new master race according to the C's:​

Session 5 October 1996:

A: Now, some history... as you know, the CIA and NSA and other agencies are the children of Nazi Gestapo... the SS, which was an experiment influence by the Antareans who were practicing for the eventual reintroduction of the Nephalim on to 3rd and or 4th density earth. And the contact with the “Antareans” was initiated by the Thule Society, which groomed its dupe subject, Adolph Hitler to be the all time mind programmed figurehead. Now, in modern times, you have seen, but so far, on a lesser scale: Oswald, Ruby, Demorenschildt, Sirhan Sirhan, James Earl Ray, Arthur Bremer, Farakahan, Menendez, Bundy, Ramirez, Dahmer, etc...

Did the Antareans also play a part in the genetic tweaking that created the Finnish/Hungarian people I wonder?​

 

[Evan]

When comparing Soviet losses during WW2, one would be remiss not to mention that also attacking Russia during or in the aftermath of Operation Barbarossa, you had not only Germany, but also Croatia, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Italy, and Finland.

 

[Voyageur]

(Joe) What was the cause of the 1561 and 1566 celestial phenomena over Nuremberg and Basel respectively?

Q: (L) Was this STS vs STO forces?

A: No. STS vs STS.

Q: (L) So they fight amongst themselves?

A: Yes!

Great questions and answers, while that particular image had also made me wonder. There are likely may more in time - and perhaps again yet to come.

The dates above circles around "Gessner’s Plague: The Bubonic Plague Epidemic of 1562–1566"

Otto Ulbricht has commented: “In the work of historians, the plagues of the early modern period often disappear completely behind the Black Death of the Late Middle Ages.”The plague cycle of the 1560s, which reached its deadly apogee from 1563–64, was likely the deadliest epidemic of the century, dubbed the “great plague” in its time in some regions, though it is hardly on the radar of historical consciousness.

Going back to "Q: (L) So they fight amongst themselves?" In 3d terms, O boy, it seems many are eating each other up, and its horrible and yet there is not much one can do as society enters this phase, a new phase that seems to have been hyper-accelerated from what it was even 10-years ago.

Thank you all for holding and scribing the session, and all the further questions and resulting discussions in the many past pages of replies.

 

[luc]

The C’s said in response to Musicinventor’s question about emotions that it might help to follow a different artistic direction.

My instant and gut response to this exchange was the idea that Musicinventor’s music is progressive and complex, with unconventional time signatures and tonal modulations. But when irjO asked about types of music that might be beneficial for creating a relaxed state, the C’s said “pentatonic scale”, which for a composer of music might be regarded as the simplest of pallets to paint from.

So I just thought that maybe Musicinventor should consider the idea that simplifying his works and focusing more on the deep feelings that can be accessed through the simple relationship between two intervals - themselves taken from a simplified scale - might be the way to go.

I’m sure Musicinventor will understand if I reference the progression in the history of jazz, where bebop - which was extremely complicated and difficult to play, the reason for which has been explained in terms of wanting jazz as an art form and the musicians who played it, to gain respect and kudos from the more traditional musical establishment - lead to Miles Davis exploring the impact that a single note can make on a listener, culminating in the pieces he arranged for the “Kind of Blue” sessions, which were the antithesis of bebop.

Maybe this isn’t at all in line with what takes Musicinventor’s breath away, but I just wanted to share that idea, anyway.

I second this - nothing wrong with exploring more complex styles of music, but I understood the Cs' comments similarly, namely that it might be beneficial for Musicinventor to try going in a different direction, more like "simple beauty". The comment about Miles Davis seems appropriate too - there is still a lot of tension in Kind of Blue, but there's more resolution, and the tension/resolution rhythm "breathes" more freely, as opposed to "taking your breath away" which some of the more complex and borderline atonal forms of music can do, and not in the positive meaning of the term.