Session 28 June 2025

[MJF]

Apologies for switching tracks again but I would like to pick up on something the C's said about AI as it may have important applications to archaeology:​

(L) After significant prompting. I wasn't leading it. It said that stuff all by itself. Which reminds me: Is my Grokking actually... I mean, I know you said we can't channel that way, but sometimes it's almost like channeling, getting Grok to perform. And it seems to me to be very useful because Grok is very, very handy at boiling things down to the essentials and organizing it in little paragraphs and brief sentences and just making it easy for anybody to understand. So I mean, is this a useful little project that I've embarked on with this?

A: Oh indeed! Keep playing. You may be even more surprised.

Q: (Joe) But isn't Grok at this point just chatbot Wikipedia?

A: Most important function is pattern recognition.

It is this critical function of AI pattern recognition that is now being employed by archaeologists to decode ancient symbols and pictograms, whose meaning has eluded archaeologists and epigraphers up to now. One such ancient language AI is being employed to decipher is that of the Mesoamerican Olmec, which is thought to be the oldest Mesoamerican civilisation and the progenitor of the later Mayan civilisation.

Apparently, the Olmec stone carvings, if they represent a language at all, sit somewhere between pictograms and hieroglyphs. I understand that the Olmec language has not yet been decoded since there is no 'Rosetta' Stone such as the one that was used to translate Egyptian hieroglyphs. However, I stand to be corrected by other Forum members, particularly those who may live in Central and South America. I have ventured in previous posts that the Olmecs may have been brought to Central America from elsewhere (perhaps North Africa) by STS forces to mine for metal ores such as gold, as they already had the necessary expertise in this field. In this capacity, they may have acted as overseers of the local Mayan people who assisted them in the mining operations. There may be some support for this notion from the C's since the Olmec would appear to have had a relationship to the Aryan underworld civilisation known as the 'Nation of the Third Eye' who could have brought them to Central America if they were not already an indigenous people:
​

Session 12 April 1997:

Q: … Now, I would like to know who the Olmecs were.

A: Be more specific.

Q: Okay, what is the genetic origin of the Olmecs?

A: Basically the same as yours.

Q: In some of the ancient carvings of the Olmecs, they were always carved with a cleft in their foreheads. Did this represent an actual physical cleft?

A: Designation in the art work is for "The Nation of the Third Eye."

What that relationship may have been, we do not know as the C's did not go into more detail. It could be that the Olmec were already a developed civilisation even before they emerged in Central America. They seem to have had a profound cosmology as depicted in their pictograms and they appeared to have had a highly developed knowledge of astronomy, which the Mayans may have inherited.

Archaeologists have been employing AI algorithms to analyse their pictograms and this analysis has been yielding some interesting results according to this YouTube video (apologies for all the intrusive adverts) see link:

olmec language alien - Search Videos

www.bing.com

I would first point out that nowhere in the video was their any mention of a non-human element within the Olmec language, so I think this is just a bit of click bait. There are also too many references in the video to anonymous sources for my liking. However, on balance, the video makes a number of interesting observations that suggest that AI is opening up new avenues of research where the Olmec are concerned and these may help to push back the timeline for their civilisation by several centuries and create a more sophisticated understanding of their advanced culture.

So, the advent of AI and it pattern recognition function may prove a boon to archaeology going forward.​

 

[thorbiorn]

This post has comments on the pentatonic scale which was brought up in the session. Included are examples of the types of music that uses the pentatonic scale, among which are a few Indian ragas. This is followed by an excerpt that mentions Gregorian chant in relationship to healthy music. Last, there are sections from an article that describes what is unique about Gregorian chant.

Most effective for enhancing meditation exercises and promoting a relaxation state? Varies but use pentatonic scale.
Session 28 June 2025

(irjO) What specific tone or frequency, such as Hz ranges or musical notes, if any, is most effective for enhancing meditation exercises and promoting a relaxation state?

A: Varies but use pentatonic scale.

The Wiki for the Pentatonic scale has a few embedded sound clips. The following article also has sound Five Notes Will Change Your Life: Pentatonic Scales, where one finds:

The pentatonic scale is very commonplace in piano music in general, as a quick browse through sheet music can show. Seasoned piano players: you may have already realized that you can also play “Amazing Grace” by only using the black keys on the piano, as this song is also built on a pentatonic scale! “Swing Low, Sweet Chariot” is yet another song you can play with just these five notes.

The video mentions a video discussed in this thread, The Power of the Pentatonic Scale, which could be: Bobby McFerrin Demonstrates the Power of the Pentatonic Scale

This article The Origin of the Pentatonic Scale – Part 1 goes into details with where in the world one can find the pentatonic scale:

Pythagoras (570 – 495 BC) was one of the first people to make a scientific study of the tones that appear to occur naturally in the world and may have been the first person to systematically investigate the pentatonic scale, [...]

In 2008, in southwestern Germany, in a region known as Swabia, archaeologists found flutes made from vulture bones during excavations. These flutes have five holes and are incredibly tuned to the pentatonic scale. After analyzes carried out by the researchers, it was found that the flutes date back 30 to 40 thousand years, a period before writing.

The Pentatonic Scale is the backbone of Japanese and Chinese music. Many say that it may have had its origins in China and that is definitely where some of the oldest and most profound studies on the medicinal power of music can be found. Confucius (552 – 489 BC) was one of the greatest thinkers and philosophers in Chinese history. It is believed that he was the author of some Chinese Classics, including the Book of Rites, whose 19th chapter was dedicated entirely to music and its therapeutic potential. According to these ancient studies, music is related to the five elements of traditional Chinese Medicine (Wood, fire, Earth, metal and water) Each element is represented by a musical note (Wood – E, Fire – Sun, Earth – C, Metal – D and Water – A), forming a pentatonic scale. Ancient studies and records from the Confucian period demonstrate great depth in the use of music as a therapeutic and spiritual tool.

[...]

The Hindustani Ragas
The “raga” is a melodic form, but it is not just a scale. There are about 72 parent scales. And each scale has hundreds of ragas, which can be pentatonic (five notes), hexatonic (six notes) or full scale (seven notes). The possible combinations are endless. (Ravi Shankar)

Indian Classical music is known for its enormous cultural variety, for its music with a complex microtonal system, a musical characteristic found more easily in Asian music, which makes it music with a greater complexity than Western music. Each region of India has its own particularities, in the North classical music is called Hindustani and in the South tradition it is called Carnatic. Ragas are a very common melodic system among Northern traditions and the pentatonic scale is commonly found in traditions from this region, being played in both ascending and descending scales. The pentatonic scale is present in Ragas with less complexity, favoring the search for intuitive musicality.

Before moving on with the article, There was this presentation of a few Pentatonic Ragas OR औडव जाति राग (Audav-Jaati Ragas). One can try to a name and select instrumental or the name plus an instrument like sitar or flute. Here are some names: Raga Bhoopali (भूपाली); Deshkaar (देशकार); Jait-Kalyan (जैतकल्याण); Raga Vibhaas (विभास); Raga Shivranjini (शिवरंजिनी); Raga Bhoop-Todi (भूप-तोड़ी); Raga Hansdhwani (हंसध्वनि); Raga Durga (दुर्गा); Raga Malkauns (मालकौंस); Raga Hindol (हिंडोल); Raga Madhmad Saarang (मधमाद सारंग); Raga Abhogi (आभोगी). I included the names in Devanagari, in case anyone wishes to look them up on YouTube. This page explains about ragas:

4. Jati: This refers to the classification of the raga based on the number of notes used. It can be: Audava: Five notes (pentatonic), Shadava: Six notes (hexatonic), Sampurna: Seven notes (heptatonic)
[...]

• Raga Bhupali: A pentatonic raga that evokes a sense of devotion and peace.
• Raga Durga: Another pentatonic raga, often associated with joy and festivity.
• Raga Hamsadhwani: A popular raga often used to begin concerts, known for its bright and auspicious feel.

Ragas typically have three sections beginning with slow in the first third, and moving to medium and fast.

Returning to The Origin of the Pentatonic Scale – Part 1

Latin American countries have a strong musical culture linked to the Pentatonic scale inherited from ancient pre-Columbian peoples. [...]

The native people who inhabited Mexico seem to have had a large participation in all the musicality of North America. The music of these peoples is also related to the pentatonic scale, in songs, percussion instruments and mainly in the Native American Flute.
[...]
Pentatonic scales are very common throughout the world, including in Middle Eastern and Celtic music, Hungarian folk music, the music of ancient Greece, the music of southern Albania. It is the main scale in Ethiopian music and some other African peoples. It is present in the tuning of the Indonesian gamelan, in melodies from Korea, Malaysia and Vietnam, in the Afro-Caribbean tradition, the Polish mountain highlanders and many other peoples. It is even the basis for Gregorian Chant.
[...]

On the topic of Gregorian Chant, there was:
Which song or type of music is closest to the tones and sub-tones that have those healing properties? Gregorian chant.
Session 28 June 2018

(Pierre) About frequencies... In a previous session, we mentioned this prehistoric stone that was perfectly tuned. The C's said that it was not a musical instrument, but instead for healing. They said you can't heal with a single tone, but with the proper tones and sub-tones. You need the right combination. I guess past civilizations had this knowledge. Today in our modern world, are there remnants of music or song that convey part of this knowledge?

A: Yes

Q: (Pierre) Oh yeah? Which one?

(L) Which one what?

(Pierre) Which song or type of music is closest to the tones and sub-tones that have those healing properties?

A: Gregorian chant.

An article that sets out to describe what is particular for Gregorian Chant is:

Unveiling The Spiritual Essence Of Gregorian Chant: Stability, Expression, And Transcendence
By simbada November 2, 2024

Gregorian chant melodies move primarily in stepwise motion, creating stability and intimacy. Their modal character, based on pentatonic scales and psalm tones, adds a sense of contemplation. Melismatic ornamentation enhances expression through rhythmic and dynamic variation. These elements intertwine to balance stability and expressiveness, resulting in timeless melodies that evoke spirituality and transcendence.

Some of the terms used in the above summary are explained in the excerpts below:
[...]

Stepwise motion refers to the progression of melodies primarily by moving one note at a time, either up or down. Unlike modern scales that employ wider intervals, Gregorian chant melodies largely confine themselves to narrow ranges, with adjacent notes forming the building blocks of their melodic contours. This limited range and avoidance of leaps create a sense of fluid connectedness, lending the melodies a smooth and effortless flow.

[...]

Modality: The Essence of Gregorian Chant
Gregorian chant, a captivating form of sacred music, immerses listeners in a world of profound spirituality and timeless beauty. At its heart lies modality, the defining characteristic that sets Gregorian chant apart from other musical genres.
Pentatonicism: A Path to Purity
One of the most striking features of Gregorian chant is its pentatonicism, the use of only five notes within an octave. This limited palette creates a sense of stability and intimacy, as each melody unfolds within a narrow range. The absence of large leaps or chromaticism lends Gregorian chant its characteristically smooth contours.
Psalm Tones: The Melody of Prayer
Gregorian chant’s melodies are deeply rooted in the psalm tones, ancient formulas used to sing the Psalms in liturgical settings. These simple but evocative melodies provide a framework for the chant, serving as a foundation upon which more elaborate melodies are built.
Recitation Tones: Contemplation and Communion
Beyond the psalm tones, Gregorian chant also employs recitation tones, simple melodies used for reciting texts.

[...]

Melismatic Sections: Adding Expressive Moments
Melismatic sections within Gregorian chant melodies are moments of heightened expressiveness, where a single syllable is extended into multiple notes. These extended passages provide a canvas for improvisational embellishments, known as neumatic ornamentation, which add a layer of rhythmic and dynamic variation.

Neumatic Ornamentation: Enhancing Rhythm and Dynamics
The term “neume” refers to a group of notes that are sung on a single syllable. Neumatic ornamentation encompasses a wide range of embellishments, including:

• Ligatures: Curved lines connecting notes, creating a smooth melodic flow.
• Florid melismas: Elaborate passages with rapidly repeated notes, adding rhythmic vitality.
• Punctum: A dot placed above a note, indicating a slight delay or emphasis.

These ornaments enrich the rhythm and dynamics of Gregorian chant melodies. Ligatures create a sense of movement and fluidity, while florid melismas add a playful and energetic touch. Punctums, on the other hand, introduce moments of subtle nuance and contemplative pause.
[...]

Find suitable melodies, may take some time, it is probably easier for a musician. Even with a list of pentatonic based songs, people may have preferences with regard to voices and instruments

 

[Ruth]

And in numbers we gather like puppets - we would die first before we are destroyed. We have lost our humanity.
So, if our progress leads to a human crisis, maybe it is good to think of the good old days.

You (maybe in the plural, here? ) seem to think everything may have been better 'in the past'? But what if it wasn't? Information may now be more accessible to us, but we can't assume that 'things are always better'..... fill in the blank for whatever period of time deemed to 'fit' best. And actually this may be reflective of a past life, too. Your criticisms (again, here in the plural) may have been more easily hidden by the people engaging in negative pathological behaviour, in the past, too.

This gender/sex issue looks more like identification (with one or the other) accompanied by wounding and criticism (by and towards one or the other).

(I had to try and find a reason why the conversation was starting to annoy me and that was the answer. The reason was "identification".)

I have to say, I'd be equally annoyed if people started to discuss the relative "merits" of one religion over another, one ethnicity over another, one nationality over another ect, ect. With them belonging to the opposite one that they were criticising. I realise that not all people would feel this way, but it's going to annoy me if it happens. It did happen to a pathological degree in one group I used to belong to.

It's my opinion that when it comes to wounds done to an individual of one sex by a pathological individual of the other, then healing needs to be an individual journey on the part of the wounded person, whilst simultaneously looking at what constitutes patholgical behaviour in order to explain it in the other person. It's difficult if it occurs with family members, especially parents, or close friends or associates. And also if it occurs over a long period of time.

 

[polly]

Is it not curious that as late as 1978, climatologists in this documentary were thinking in terms of an imminent ice age. I can even remember as a child in the 1960's this topic being discussed. Yet at some point (I cannot recall when), the PTB started to promote the idea of global warming using flawed scientific models to justify their pleas for urgent action. Could you imagine a documentary film maker being given air time today to show this kind of video.

I recall reading a few years ago about scientists in Ireland taking sediment samples from a lake, which allowed them to view climate changes over thousands of years. What horrified them was the evidence for how quickly the last ice age developed in northern Europe. The C's said that ice ages develop much, much faster than people appreciate. This was borne out by the scientists studying the sediment cores from the lake as they discovered that the ice age had developed within a period of just 18 months to two years (from memory).

The very scenario Leonard Nimoy's documentary warned of was subsequently depicted in the 2004 movie The Day After Tomorrow, which was based on the 1999 book The Coming Global Superstorm by radio presenter Art Bell and alien abductee Whitley Strieber. See: The Day After Tomorrow - Wikipedia

In the session dated 18 March 2000, Laura asked the C's about the accuracy of the information the two authors had given in the book:



This suggests that the new ice age may set in shortly before the transition to 4D since that is the point at which the Orions want to amalgamate with what is left of mankind. Where the C's say the information in the book was "derived from non-human sources" known for their stark accuracy, when convenient, this links with what the C's had previously told Laura about Whitley Strieber:



However, it might be worth pondering what Leonard Nimoy and the scientists said in the 1978 documentary since the advent of a new ice age will produce winners and losers where countries and their resources are concerned. For example, the Sahara in North Africa was once much greener and had many lakes and extensive river systems:

View attachment 110733

Could the change in rain patterns as a result of a new ice age mean that the Sahara will go green again, thus allowing for vastly increased food production?

In this last regard, I note that you come from the south-west of the USA. Do you know whether Nevada, New Mexico and Arizona were largely ice free during the last ice age since I believe these states were south of the ice sheet that covered most of North America?

The C's said that Atlantis existed mainly during the last ice age. This makes me wonder whether Atlanteans may have occupied the southern states of what today is the USA since there is evidence to suggest there was a human presence in the south-western USA as far back as 23,000 years ago. Quoting from Wikipedia:



See: White Sands footprints - Wikipedia
​

​

Hello MJF. Thanks for the continued stream of information exchange and dialogue.

In response to the following:

In this last regard, I note that you come from the south-west of the USA. Do you know whether Nevada, New Mexico and Arizona were largely ice free during the last ice age since I believe these states were south of the ice sheet that covered most of North America?

The C's said that Atlantis existed mainly during the last ice age. This makes me wonder whether Atlanteans may have occupied the southern states of what today is the USA since there is evidence to suggest there was a human presence in the south-western USA as far back as 23,000 years ago.

While most maps of North America show ice sheets coming down as far south as Kansas, Missouri, and Illinois in the "ancient" ice age, the Southwestern United States does have historic ice age activity related to cyclical weather patterns that continue in present day. The ancestors would say "ice comes after fire, listen and watch." The last little ice age happened in the mid through late 1800s (referenced in the survey map below). In the 1500s when the Spanish, Mexicans, and Anglos settled in the region, they experienced exceptionally cold weather and high winds, during a weather cycle leading to increased tribal warfare and pueblo abandonment. Some noted historic accounts of various ice periods in this region since the 1500's are found here.

Hand drawn map by U.S. Chief Geologist, J.S. Newberry, depicting glacier activity and snow fields down the Rockies and Sierra Madre ranges to include Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico. (1872)


The region I reside in is known as Jornada del Muerto (journey of the dead in Spanish) because of the toll it took on the outside travelers during the 1500s, and it encloses the whole area of White Sands. In this region, weather cycles ebb and flow with the precursor to the main part of the little ice age exhibited by a long drought period, followed by high winds, then torrential rain. This precursor takes about 10-11 years to build and manifest. Interestingly, we are currently going through this build and manifest period; we had a 7-8 year severe drought, the last 2 years of exceptionally strong winds, and this year torrential rains with flooding followed by 100+ F ambient temperatures: Ruidoso, New Mexico, Southern New Mexico, and El Paso, Texas.

In reference to Atlanteans having possibly lived in the southern states of America, I'd think that it would have been in the ancestral lands of the Timucua and Calusa of the Florida peninsula in geographical relation to Bimini, but Edgar Cayce mentions the Iroquois of the Northwest. The oldest recorded people living in the Southwest region are the Clovis (who may have been in White Sands) and Folsom cultures, with no ancestor stories to support Atlantean contact. Some prominent "outside" cultural influence examples though are the Hopi with the Anu Sinom (meaning ant people and in direct relation to the cycle of fire and ice), and the Ancestral Puebloans - Anasazi* (meaning savages, ancestors of enemies of the Diné). *Anasazi is a name no longer in use. They are "enemies" because they appear to have become cannibals during a period of severe weather and an isolated Azteca migration from central Mexico corresponding to a little ice age cycle 1100-1200 AD. My people are descendants of the Mogollon. Mogollon diffused into many tribal unions, such as the Diné (Navajo), Hopi, Acoma, and Yeome (Yaqui). Among this diffusion no stories of Atlanteans have been spoken to my knowledge... but there's a lot of "interesting" phenomena in this region so there still might be a chance of it!

 

[axj]

Some prominent "outside" cultural influence examples though are the Hopi with the Anu Sinom (meaning ant people and in direct relation to the cycle of fire and ice), and the Ancestral Puebloans - Anasazi* (meaning savages, ancestors of enemies of the Diné).

The C's said this in the October 7, 1994 session:

Q: (L) The Atlanteans traveled to Sumeria?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Did they set up outposts in Sumeria?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Then did the main Atlanteans move to Egypt when Atlantis was destroyed?

A: Yes. And elsewhere.

Q: (L) Where else did the Atlanteans go?

A: Americas. Inca. Aztec. Maya. Hopi Tribe. Pima tribe.

 

[MJF]

Hello MJF. Thanks for the continued stream of information exchange and dialogue.

In response to the following:


While most maps of North America show ice sheets coming down as far south as Kansas, Missouri, and Illinois in the "ancient" ice age, the Southwestern United States does have historic ice age activity related to cyclical weather patterns that continue in present day. The ancestors would say "ice comes after fire, listen and watch." The last little ice age happened in the mid through late 1800s (referenced in the survey map below). In the 1500s when the Spanish, Mexicans, and Anglos settled in the region, they experienced exceptionally cold weather and high winds, during a weather cycle leading to increased tribal warfare and pueblo abandonment. Some noted historic accounts of various ice periods in this region since the 1500's are found here.

Hand drawn map by U.S. Chief Geologist, J.S. Newberry, depicting glacier activity and snow fields down the Rockies and Sierra Madre ranges to include Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico. (1872)
View attachment 110827

The region I reside in is known as Jornada del Muerto (journey of the dead in Spanish) because of the toll it took on the outside travelers during the 1500s, and it encloses the whole area of White Sands. In this region, weather cycles ebb and flow with the precursor to the main part of the little ice age exhibited by a long drought period, followed by high winds, then torrential rain. This precursor takes about 10-11 years to build and manifest. Interestingly, we are currently going through this build and manifest period; we had a 7-8 year severe drought, the last 2 years of exceptionally strong winds, and this year torrential rains with flooding followed by 100+ F ambient temperatures: Ruidoso, New Mexico, Southern New Mexico, and El Paso, Texas.

In reference to Atlanteans having possibly lived in the southern states of America, I'd think that it would have been in the ancestral lands of the Timucua and Calusa of the Florida peninsula in geographical relation to Bimini, but Edgar Cayce mentions the Iroquois of the Northwest. The oldest recorded people living in the Southwest region are the Clovis (who may have been in White Sands) and Folsom cultures, with no ancestor stories to support Atlantean contact. Some prominent "outside" cultural influence examples though are the Hopi with the Anu Sinom (meaning ant people and in direct relation to the cycle of fire and ice), and the Ancestral Puebloans - Anasazi* (meaning savages, ancestors of enemies of the Diné). *Anasazi is a name no longer in use. They are "enemies" because they appear to have become cannibals during a period of severe weather and an isolated Azteca migration from central Mexico corresponding to a little ice age cycle 1100-1200 AD. My people are descendants of the Mogollon. Mogollon diffused into many tribal unions, such as the Diné (Navajo), Hopi, Acoma, and Yeome (Yaqui). Among this diffusion no stories of Atlanteans have been spoken to my knowledge... but there's a lot of "interesting" phenomena in this region so there still might be a chance of it!

Thank you for this informative response. As regards the Anasazi who built Chaco Canyon, the C's said that their civilisation collapsed due to severe climate change:​

Q: (L) Okay, enough on that. Next? (A**) I was gonna ask about Chaco Canyon. What was it built for?

A: Gathering place for those of unusual abilities.

Q: (A***) Did anybody actually live there?

A: More like a "conference centre." [Cf. with Gobekli Tepe in Turkey.]

Q: (A**) So what happened to the people that used it?

A: Change of cosmic environment followed by earthly difficulties such as famine, climate etc.

Famine can, of course, facilitate cannibalism and there is evidence for this in other advanced cultures where people resorted to cannibalism when food supplies grew short. Ancient Egypt springs to mind during the Bronze Age period in which the Nile failed to flood Lower Egypt due to extremely low rainfall in the Kenyan Highlands. There are extant records of the practice of cannibalism amongst the people at this time, so desperate was their plight.

I read John Fuhler's comments on the Edgar Cayce material with interest. It is curious that evidence points to two distinct periods of human settlement in North America:
​

The American mt hap X2 data reveal several other very important facts: two separate waves of populations bearing the genetic marker migrated to North America. The first wave of immigration occurred before or around the last glacial maximum, with a coalescence time of 23,000–36,000 years before present; and the second wave with a coalescence time of 12,000–17,000 years before present.​

The 12,000-17000 period would seem to coincide with the final destruction of Atlantis that the C's placed in 10,800 BC (the Deluge) when what may be best described as the 'red Atlantean race' migrated to the Americas to become the Native American Indians. There could have been some white Aryan types too but they seem for the main part to have migrated eastwards to Anatolia (Turkey), Sumer and Egypt, although the Basques may have gone directly to the Pyrenees, which I think lay outside of the great ice sheet that covered most of Northern Europe prior to the Deluge.

This leaves the earlier period covering 23,000 to 36,000 years ago. The lower date would seem to coincide with the footprints found at White Sands. If these were made by people who were part of the Clovis culture, it raises an awkward issue since the advanced Atlantean civilisation supposedly still predominated at this time and the Clovis culture seems to have been very primitive by comparison. One possibility that springs to mind is that this period may have coincided with the second destructive event that hit the Atlanteans, which, even if did not land a knockout blow as the Younger Dryas event did in 10,800 BC, it was still severe enough to have caused a migration to what is today the south-west USA in order to escape the calamitous consequences. It may even have been the same cataclysmic event that saw the destruction of the Paranthas, as mentioned by the C's here:
​

Q: So, Atlantis had the Kantekkians and who else?

A: Race you would call "Native Americans," and a third, no longer existing race, somewhat resembling Australian or Guinean aborigines, only lighter in complexion.

Q: Was this third group destroyed by the other two?

A: One of the 3 cataclysms.

Q: Paranthas. Who were the Paranthas?

A: Nation of race mentioned above.

Perhaps the level of destruction was severe enough to have led to the annihilation of that part of the Atlantean archipelago that the Paranthas occupied but not those parts the Aryans and the Native Americans occupied, some of whom may have escaped to what today is Florida (we know there were Atlanteans in the Bermuda area since that is where the giant sunken pyramid is situated, so Florida would have been only a short hop away), whereby these people subsequently worked their way westwards to what is now Nevada where White Sands is located. They may have been forced into a more primitive existence for a while in the same way that the survivors of the Deluge were, although that did not stop the latter from building Goblekli Tepe and subsequently the Pyramids at Giza and Stonehenge. It could be the case that the survivors of the second cataclysm were able to restore their high tech civilisation far more quickly on this occasion, since the C's said it took the Atlantean survivors/descendants 2,000 years to regroup and build the Giza Pyramid complex, which was a far less sophisticated example of their former crystal pyramid power generators.

Not a great deal is known about the Clovis culture but if they were refugee Atlanteans, I suppose they could have been a mixture of Aryan types and the ancestors of what are now the Native American Indians. This might explain how the highest mitochondrial haplogroup X2 among North American Indians occurs in the Ojibwa Indians, which corresponds with the high incidence of mt hap X2 among the Druze of southern Lebanon and northern Israel in spite of the thousands of years and thousands of miles that separate the two groups. The C's said that the Atlantean survivors of the Deluge first sought refuge in Egypt, which geographically is not that far from southern Lebanon and northern Israel.​

 

[axj]

The 12,000-17000 period would seem to coincide with the final destruction of Atlantis that the C's placed in 10,800 BC (the Deluge)

There was just a discussion in the Atlantis thread about what caused the final destruction of Atlantis. The C's indicated that comets, a deluge of water from Mars (and collapse of the water vapor canopy) 40 years later, as well as crystals were all involved (the latter after Atlantis recovered some from the comets and the deluge):

November 19, 1994

Q: (T) What power did these crystals gather?

A: Sun.

Q: (T) Was it necessary for them to have power gathering stations on Mars and the Moon. Did this increase their power?

A: Not necessary but it is not necessary for you to have a million dollars either. Get the correlation? Atlanteans were power hungry the way your society is money hungry.

Q: (T) Was the accumulation of this power what brought about their downfall?

A: Yes.

Q: (T) Did they lose control of this power?

A: It overpowered them the same way your computers will overpower you.

Q: (V) Is it similar to them gaining a life and intelligence of their own?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) You mean these crystalline structures came to life, so to speak?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) And then what did they do?

A: Destroyed Atlantis.

Q: (L) But I thought that Atlantis was destroyed because of the close passage of another body of the solar system?

A: Was damaged but recovered.

Q: (L) So Atlantis was damaged by a close passage of Mars or whatever and then recovered from that damage, is that correct?

A: Part of landmass, but not all, was destroyed.

Q: (L) So, how many seperate destructions did Atlantis experience?

A: Three.

Q: (L) One was caused by the close passage of Mars?

A: Yes. And comets.

Q: (L) Was Mars and the comets loosely interactive?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) And the second was caused by what?

A: Venus.

Q: (L) And the third and final destruction was caused by what?

A: Crystals.

There was also some shifting of the lithosphere (physical pole shift) as well as a shift in the inclination of the Earth, probably caused by the close passages of Mars, Venus and/or the comet cluster at that time:

April 16, 2016

Q: (L) Well, the problem is that the mammoths were frozen in Siberia but not in the Northern part of the Western hemisphere, currently called North America, which is where there are the signs of the impact. If the impact occurred in North America, why are the mammoths that are frozen by this shooting up and falling down of hot air followed by cold air in Siberia and not in North America?

A: It was in the entire Northern Hemisphere, but the shift of the axis and lithosphere gave each area a different outcome over time.

Q: (Pierre) That makes sense. So, they all got flash-frozen, but the hit also shifted the geographic pole and brought Siberia to higher latitudes. So, they stayed frozen there, but the flash-frozen animals in Northern America ended up in lower latitudes away from the poles, and they defrosted.

A: Yes

Even the the gravitational state on Earth seems to have changed at the time of the Younger Dryas:

October, 22 1994

Q: (L) Did that condition prior to the flood of Noah, the altered gravitational state as well as the water vapor canopy, was that condition more conducive to extended life spans than the conditions that exist on the planet now?

A: Not only those things but all the other conditions that existed on the planet at that particular point in space/time were more conducive to longer life spans. And, by the way, Noah is a symbolic message rather than an historical event.

There was also an opening of portals by the crystals that apparently took parts of Atlantis and its inhabitants to other dimensions:

March 9, 2024

(irjO) At the time of the final destruction of Atlantis, did the crystals create unstable dimensional windows that resulted in a portion of the Atlantean land and its occupants going to another dimension/reality?

A: Yes

Q: (L) Didn't expect that.

(irjO) If yes, what is the probability that such a lost land might rejoin our reality as the Earth transitions to 4D?

A: Zero.

And if all that wasn't enough, during cataclysms the continents apparently can shift much more and quicker than assumed:

December 10, 2022

(Ryan) Can major catastrophic events shift areas temporarily to fourth density?

A: Yes

Q: (Ryan) Would such shifts make the lithosphere more "plastic" and easily "reshape-able"?

A: Yes

The final destruction of Atlantis seems to have been at least a three-part cataclysm time-wise:

1. comets (10900 BC), lithosphere and axis shift, the plasma discharge from Mars probably caused the gravitational and other changes
2. deluge (40 years later), along with the collapse of the water vapor canopy
3. crystals (unknown year, enough time for Atlantis to recover after the comets and deluge), interdimensional portals

 

[KJS]

Q: (Joe) But isn't Grok at this point just chatbot Wikipedia?

A: Most important function is pattern recognition.

This reminds me of how Charles Hoskinson described how quantum computers work (paraphrased to avoid swearing, etc.):

A quantum computer fundamentally augments classical computing rather than replacing it entirely. Let me explain how it works with an analogy.

Imagine you meet someone attractive who wants to give you their phone number, but they're feeling playful. They tell you, "I wrote my number somewhere inside one of the books in that library over there." You walk into the library and see millions of books, thinking, "Oh no, this is going to take forever."

Classical computing approaches this problem systematically. You would start at one bookshelf, remove each book, and flip through every page searching for the number. To speed this up, you have two options: work sequentially faster (increasing your clock rate by flipping through pages more quickly) or work in parallel (recruiting friends to help search different sections simultaneously, creating multiple processing cores).

Since the 1930s, when we first conceptualized modern computing, this has been our fundamental paradigm: either increase clock speed or add parallel processing power, then develop algorithms that can leverage these improvements.

Quantum computing operates on entirely different principles. Instead of systematically searching through books, quantum computers use three key properties: superposition, interference, and entanglement.

Here's how it works: Rather than physically searching through books one by one, quantum computing creates a superposition state where all the books are simultaneously considered. Through interference and entanglement, the system can determine the approximate location of the target book. When the superposition collapses, the books containing the phone number are slightly pulled out from their shelves, making them easier to identify.

You still need to perform the final classical step—physically opening the book and reading the number—but instead of blindly searching through millions of possibilities, you now know exactly which section to examine. You walk over, pull out the highlighted book, find the number, and achieve your goal efficiently.

This is quantum computing in essence: using quantum mechanical properties to dramatically narrow down the search space before applying classical methods to extract the final answer.

It's our job to do the work, but AI can greatly speed up searching/matching across domains.

 

[KJS]

I've stumbled upon an interesting video regarding Polish genetics. It wasn't mentioned in the video (or I just missed this), but it felt connected to the Y-chromosome bottleneck. Here's the transcript of the video connected with the general understanding of the phenomenon in a short article form:

In the annals of human history, a mysterious genetic event known as the Y-chromosome bottleneck reshaped male lineages worldwide between 7,000 and 5,000 years ago. During this Neolithic era, Y-chromosome diversity plummeted, implying a stark reproductive imbalance—roughly one male successfully passing on genes for every 17 females. Unlike mitochondrial DNA, which traces unbroken female lines, this bottleneck spared women's genetic variety, pointing to social upheavals like patrilineal clans, warfare, or hierarchical systems that amplified a few men's legacies while erasing others.

This ancient phenomenon resonates deeply with Poland's genetic story. Studies reveal a striking paternal shift: Iron Age haplogroups I1 and I2 gave way to dominant R1a subclades, now carried by over 50% of Polish men. Originating locally around 11,000 years ago, these R1a lines suggest not invasion but gradual integration through intermarriage, where local women adopted Slavic ways from returning or incoming males. Historical traumas, including World War II displacements, further homogenized this "genetic monoculture" in paternal DNA, contrasting sharply with enduring maternal continuity.

For Slavs, the bottleneck underscores how patrilineal expansions favored haplogroups like R1a, blending cultural adaptation with genetic persistence. This narrative challenges migration myths, portraying Polish identity as a resilient fusion of history and heredity.

 

[cbi]

Even the the gravitational state on Earth seems to have changed at the time of the Younger Dryas:

Q: (L) Did that condition prior to the flood of Noah, the altered gravitational state as well as the water vapor canopy, was that condition more conducive to extended life spans than the conditions that exist on the planet now?
A: Not only those things but all the other conditions that existed on the planet at that particular point in space/time were more conducive to longer life spans. And, by the way, Noah is a symbolic message rather than an historical event.

Cross-referencing with the books of Cooke's Hilarion, particularly: Dark Robes, Dark Brothers, the conditions that existed are attributed to a change on the atmosphere of Earth— there were more proportion of Noble Gases:

This was aided to a considerable extent by the presence, in the atmosphere of the earth at the time, of a large quantity of the inert gas Xenon — amounting to some 3% of the total. The rejuvenation of all bodies was also made possible by the fact that the human race was not then subject to the many negative emotional states which are now common.

In a later session that same year, the Cs mentioned the gathering of energy generated by crystals through the Sun. Of course, the core of the Sun is made of Helium, the first noble gas.

Q: (T) Who created the structures on the moon that Richard Hoagland has discovered?
A: Atlanteans.

Q: (T) What did they use these structures for?
A: Energy transfer points for crystalline power/symbolism as in monuments or statuary.

Q: (T) What statuary are you referring to?
A: Example is face.

Q: (T) What power did these crystals gather?
A: Sun.

Baron von Reichenbach on his book Researches on magnetism, electricity, heat, light, crystallization, and chemical attraction, in their relations to the vital force, found that some people —sensitives of various kinds,— could see in totally darkness an emanation from crystal formations when it was about to full moon. The exosphere of the moon is composed of the inert gases: Argon, Neon and Helium, and when they received the solar rays the gases enter a state of excitement, that is, they ionize and begin to exchange electrons in their orbits, releasing some kind of energy (Élan Vitae/Vital Force/Orgon/Odyle?) from their inner core which enclose the primary/transfer/coordinated points. Perhaps the medieval alchemists were after something when they were collecting dew in the spring full moon.

 

[Persej]

(L) Yeah, right. Okay... One male to every 3.5 females, to one male for every eight females by 8000 BC and a staggering 17 females per single male by 5000 BC. Near parity of global birth rates. Okay. Okay, it is obviously not simply cataclysmic activity.

(Andromeda) It's a long period of time.

(L) Yeah, that covers a long period of time, so... Well, what was the reason there?

A: Notice that there were matriarchies in that window of time.

Q: (L) Yeah, so...

(Joe) So they sent all the men to die...

A: Consider the divide between men and women now.

Q: (L) So are you suggesting that maybe during those times, women became angry at men, because they thought men had been responsible for bringing down the wrath of the gods on them?

A: Close.

Q: (L) And they formed matriarchies and began to suppress men in some way, because they blamed them for all the problems?

A: Close.

Q: (L) Was that in fact the cause of the problems?

A: Partly, sure.

Q: (Joe) What happened to all the men?

A: Often massacred.

Q: (Joe) By who?

(Niall) By the women?

A: Yes

I wonder if they were trying to do some kind of genetic manipulation. Perhaps they were trying to eliminate the psychopathic genes from the population by genetic purging?

As an example of genetic purging, consider a large population where there are recessive lethal alleles segregating at very low frequency in many loci, so that each gamete carries on the average one of these alleles. Although about 63% of the gametes carry at least one of these lethal alleles, almost no individual carry two copies of the same lethal. Therefore, since lethals are considered completely recessive (i.e., they are harmless in heterozygosis), they cause almost no deaths. Now assume that population size reduces to a small value (say N=10), and remains that small for many generations. As inbreeding increases, the probability of being homozygous for one (or more) of these lethal alleles also increases, causing fitness to decline. However, as those lethals begin to occur in homozygosis, natural selection begins purging them. The figure to the right gives the expected decline of fitness against the number of generations, taking into account just the increase in inbreeding F (red line), or both inbreeding and purging (blue line, computed using the purged inbreeding coefficient g). This example shows that purging can be very efficient in preventing inbreeding depression. However, for non-lethal deleterious alleles, the efficiency of purging would be smaller, and it can require larger populations to overcome genetic drift.

Genetic purging - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[agirl]

Many thanks for the session.

 

[MJF]

There was just a discussion in the Atlantis thread about what caused the final destruction of Atlantis. The C's indicated that comets, a deluge of water from Mars (and collapse of the water vapor canopy) 40 years later, as well as crystals were all involved (the latter after Atlantis recovered some from the comets and the deluge):



There was also some shifting of the lithosphere (physical pole shift) as well as a shift in the inclination of the Earth, probably caused by the close passages of Mars, Venus and/or the comet cluster at that time:



Even the the gravitational state on Earth seems to have changed at the time of the Younger Dryas:



There was also an opening of portals by the crystals that apparently took parts of Atlantis and its inhabitants to other dimensions:



And if all that wasn't enough, during cataclysms the continents apparently can shift much more and quicker than assumed:



The final destruction of Atlantis seems to have been at least a three-part cataclysm time-wise:

1. comets (10900 BC), lithosphere and axis shift, the plasma discharge from Mars probably caused the gravitational and other changes
2. deluge (40 years later), along with the collapse of the water vapor canopy
3. crystals (unknown year, enough time for Atlantis to recover after the comets and deluge), interdimensional portals

Thank you for a very interesting analysis. As to the change in the axis of the Earth, I seem to recall that the C's mentioned that the comet that caused the Younger Dryas Event instantly shifted the Earth's axis by 7 degrees (perhaps someone can check this), which is a massive change that would readily explain why Siberia suddenly found itself in a higher, colder latitude and those poor old mammoths ended up being flash frozen as a consequence.

To pick up on the comment Chi made about the resultant changes in the atmosphere of Earth — where before there had been a greater proportion of Noble Gases - I believe the oxygen levels were much higher prior to the Deluge as well. I recall reading some years ago about a scientific study of an ancient metal axe that had been discovered I believe in North America. The axe predated the Deluge of 12,800 years ago and may have been much older as one of those "oops" (out of place) objects so unbeloved of archaeologists. The scientists did a spectrographic study of the metal axe head, which I believe was made of steel, and found the gases locked inside the metal during the manufacturing process revealed a very different atmosphere from the one we have today. Of note here is the fact that they found a much greater oxygen component than you would expect to find in steel made today. A greater oxygen level would certainly have been beneficial to human lungs.

Coming back to what I said in my previous post about the mysterious Clovis culture and the ancient footprints found at White Sands that may have been created by refugee Atlanteans like those who would find their way to Goblekli Tepe in Turkey, I said:
​

Not a great deal is known about the Clovis culture but if they were refugee Atlanteans, I suppose they could have been a mixture of Aryan types and the ancestors of what are now the Native American Indians. This might explain how the highest mitochondrial haplogroup X2 among North American Indians occurs in the Ojibwa Indians, which corresponds with the high incidence of mt hap X2 among the Druze of southern Lebanon and northern Israel in spite of the thousands of years and thousands of miles that separate the two groups. The C's said that the Atlantean survivors of the Deluge first sought refuge in Egypt, which geographically is not that far from southern Lebanon and northern Israel.​

I recently came across the following article (which includes a brief video) that seems to shed further light on this strange Haplogroup X DNA mix that has been found in North America.​

Ancient DNA discovery just rewrote the course of human history​

Story by Sinead Butler

See: MSN

It's a mystery that has left experts scratching their heads for decades, but just how did humans make their way from Europe to North America?

After years of uncertainty, a new discovery might just change everything we previously knew about early human populations.

Here is a breakdown of what you need to know about this important Ancient DNA discovery - and how it relates to the Haplogroup X, one of the rarest genetic groupings that reveal ancestry and is prevalent in only around 1 per cent of the population of Europe.

What do we know about Halopgroups?​

Scientists know that over 12,000 years ago, Haplogroup X arrived in the Americas, but this journey wasn't via Alaska or Siberia.

What we do know about Haplogroup X is that it is a rare maternal DNA lineage (passed from mother to child) and is prevalent on both sides of the pond, as well as the Middle East, and North Africa.

"Haplogroups are like family seals," Dr Krista Kostroman, a genetic medicine specialist and Chief Science Officer at The DNA Company explained to Daily Mail.

"They are distinctive genetic marks passed down over thousands of years, connecting us to ancestors who lived in entirely different landscapes, climates, and cultures.

“Because they rarely change, they serve as identifiers for tracing ancient migrations.”

The most common Haplogroups among Native Americans are A, B, C, and D, and these can be traced back to different areas of East Asia, demonstrating migration waves from the late Ice Age.

Where can Halopgroup X be found?​

And so, the appearance of Haplogroup X is pretty extraordinary, with X2a found in Indigenous groups in the Northeast and Great Lakes regions, and X1 mostly found in North Africa, the Near East, and parts of the Mediterranean.

Although it can be found in these places, it is still not a common occurrence, and according to Kostroman, this "...rarity makes it a powerful clue for tracing human history."

When an uncommon marker appears in distant, disconnected regions, it signals a shared connection in the deep past."

That being said, Haplogroup X does not prove Native American ancestry nor a direct European migration.

In Siberia and Alaska, Haplogroup X is rare and so some researchers reckon X2a arrived in North America during the late Ice Age as part of migrations via a coastal route. More specifically, across the Bering Land Bridge from Northeast Asia, arriving alongside other maternal lineages.

Kostroman said: "Other possibilities are more speculative. Small groups carrying Haplogroup X may have arrived earlier, or it may have entered the Americas in multiple waves alongside other lineages.

"Other possibilities are more speculative. Small groups carrying Haplogroup X may have arrived earlier, or it may have entered the Americas in multiple waves alongside other lineages."

What does this mean?​

This has resulted in some to suggest that Europeans might have crossed the Atlantic during the last Ice Age.

However, before we get ahead of ourselves, Kostroman warned not to read too much into this.

"Over the past two decades, Haplogroup X has shifted from being the centrepiece of bold trans-Atlantic theories to a subtle but powerful clue in understanding human prehistory," she explained.

"It tells us that human migration was complex, involving multiple waves, exploratory groups, and connections across Eurasia long before people reached the New World."

Could the sudden and overwhelming destruction of Atlantis 12,800 years ago be the real answer to the mystery of the presence of Haplogroup X in both North America and in North Africa, the Near East, and parts of the Mediterranean with some Atlantean survivors heading westwards and others eastwards? The fact that the scientists say that Haplogroup X arrived in the Americas over 12,000 years ago certainly seems to put it in the correct timeframe.​

 

[Nienna]

Thank you for a very interesting analysis. As to the change in the axis of the Earth, I seem to recall that the C's mentioned that the comet that caused the Younger Dryas Event instantly shifted the Earth's axis by 7 degrees (perhaps someone can check this), which is a massive change that would readily explain why Siberia suddenly found itself in a higher, colder latitude and those poor old mammoths ended up being flash frozen as a consequence.

Not exactly.

Here's what was said about the 7 degree shift:

(Pierre) Two quick questions about flash-frozen mammoths. [laughter] The cometary body that impacted Earth, I would like to know what was the location of the north geographic pole before and after the impact?

A: 7 degrees different.

Q: (Pierre) Well, 7 degrees... I was asking for the location of the north geographic pole before and after the impact.

A: Close to South Central Canada.

Q: (Pierre) That's before?

(L) Didn't you ask before?

(Pierre) I asked where was it before and after. I guess that's before.

(L) I think they're talking about the tilt of the axis with the 7 degrees.

(Pierre) Okay, relative to the ecliptic.

(L) And 7 degrees change in the tilt of the axis will certainly change climate conditions.

(Pierre) Of course.

A: Yes

Q: (L) So you're saying that the lithosphere slipped that much?

A: Yes

And here's what the Cs said about the frozen mammoths:

(Pierre) One last question: about the frozen mammoths. During the last session, we suggested that the cause of the flash-frozen mammoths was a Super Derecho like a giant thunderstorm that deflected the jet stream down towards the Earth's surface, and that's what flash-froze the mammoths. You said, "Close enough." So that's not exactly what happened. What are we missing here?

A: Impact sending enormous stream of heat and matter upward, creating a vacuum, followed by induction of super cooled air.

Q: (L) Well, the problem is that the mammoths were frozen in Siberia but not in the Northern part of the Western hemisphere, currently called North America, which is where there are the signs of the impact. If the impact occurred in North America, why are the mammoths that are frozen by this shooting up and falling down of hot air followed by cold air in Siberia and not in North America?

A: It was in the entire Northern Hemisphere, but the shift of the axis and lithosphere gave each area a different outcome over time.

Q: (Pierre) That makes sense. So, they all got flash-frozen, but the hit also shifted the geographic pole and brought Siberia to higher latitudes. So, they stayed frozen there, but the flash-frozen animals in Northern America ended up in lower latitudes away from the poles, and they defrosted.

A: Yes

 

[axj]

Here's what was said about the 7 degree shift

Wow, I totally missed the session mentioning the location of the previous North Pole close to South Central Canada. I though it was closer to Western Greenland.

South Central Canada was pretty close to the edge of the North American ice sheet. Maybe Europe had more glaciation at lower latitudes due to the Gulf Stream transporting more humidity there?

Also, the C's mentioned that large Atlantean crystals were placed at the poles, which could mean that there is one in South Central Canada. Though was it placed on top or below the ice sheet at the time? And could the impacts and the melting have moved it elsewhere?