Should Corrupt Politicians be Executed? Poll

Arwenn said:
There is no question that the psychopathic elite at the top of the hierarchy need to go. And maybe an execution might be a fitting end to those that have caused the most egregious harm to others. But I guess the thing is what do we replace them with? What concept of governance do we have in mind? The way it stands from what the Cs say, 50% of the population are OPs, and psychopathy and character disorders seem to be spread along a continuum. So if an opportunity presents itself, will the same cycle just keep repeating itself? History seems to indicate so.... Greedy power-crazed elite->oppressed citizens->revolt/revolution/cataclysm -> opportunistic psychopaths take over again (under the guise of a citizen friendly regime change)....

Yes, that is what is worrisome. In my scoping out the news almost every day, keeping up with SOTT, I notice a growing trend where such ideas are expressed overtly. Revolution, eliminating the wealthy elite, killing off psychopaths at the top and in the population, the many examples being set by various things happening around the world, the growing rage...

Geeze, if I was in the shoes of the elite, I would be seriously worried too. But what they DO in response to this worry only makes everything worse. They don't seem to be able to let go of their incessant drive for power/stuff and so they end up doing all the things that will bring the fires of destruction - both human and cosmic - on their heads.

How can they be so stupid? How can they not SEE (with all their high-paid advisers) that the increasing pressure on the masses is going to explode in their faces???

It's mind-boggling.
 
Laura said:
Yes, that is what is worrisome. In my scoping out the news almost every day, keeping up with SOTT, I notice a growing trend where such ideas are expressed overtly. Revolution, eliminating the wealthy elite, killing off psychopaths at the top and in the population, the many examples being set by various things happening around the world, the growing rage...

Geeze, if I was in the shoes of the elite, I would be seriously worried too. But what they DO in response to this worry only makes everything worse. They don't seem to be able to let go of their incessant drive for power/stuff and so they end up doing all the things that will bring the fires of destruction - both human and cosmic - on their heads.

How can they be so stupid? How can they not SEE (with all their high-paid advisers) that the increasing pressure on the masses is going to explode in their faces???


It's mind-boggling.

But there's the rub-we tend to transpose our inner landscape and hope and wish that these pathetic power-hungry evil elite will just for once, stop and smell the impending doom....and change their ways. But it is obvious that they are not capable of doing so... It is like asking or wishing for a tornado to be a gentle breese.
They are what they are.

Revenge is a nice thought when the world has been subjected to these evil psychos for as long as it has, but as Gandhi once said, 'An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.' Until we can universally recognize character disordered individuals of every shade and keep them from any positions of power (wouldn't it be nice to test for this disorder-part of the interview process would require being tested for any shade of psychopathy), until we can look at what type of government normal people would like that is fair and equitable to all, the end point is the same. Or so it seems to me.
 
Arwenn said:
There is no question that the psychopathic elite at the top of the hierarchy need to go. And maybe an execution might be a fitting end to those that have caused the most egregious harm to others. But I guess the thing is what do we replace them with? What concept of governance do we have in mind?

Greetings and Thank You for facilitating this conversation. There those of us in my local community who have thought of all kinds of methods to rid ourselves of these corrupt, greedy, resource sucking vampires by using public flogging, forcing them to serve in menial and degrading positions, etc. From an emotional standpoint that would feel real good for a temporary moment, but after that what? And as Arwenn says "what do we replace them with? What & who would we replace them with is very important.

These folks spend enormous amounts of time planning & plotting of ways to continue to keep us on one emotional treadmill crisis to another. We have chosen to seek out people who have already demonstrated the commitment to better governance for all who reside in our community. We have also found that people are "inherently lazy" and prefer for others to do "The Work" in getting better governance, so those of us already committed to this movement, meet, plan, and forge ahead, knowing that the change has already begun and people are reaching their snapping point. The next thing we are doing is to empower people to start growing their own food, support local farmers, etc.

Because we are a colony, our situation is one of mutli-complex socio-economic layers of corruption that have been built on piracy. It almost seems built in, however many people have good intentions, but are tired of this struggle. Many native & indigenous people have left this "paradise" because of the hopelessness of fighting against the same colonial system that claims democracy, while spreading imperialism across the globe. That said, it is only a matter of time before "we" are forced to have the current system replaced. Do we recruit people to serve or do allow TPTB to choose our replacement. We are but a microcosm of the wider world. There is a saying here, "If you have money, you can by anything you want.

For example, http://www.blacklistednews.com/Bill_Clinton_identified_in_lawsuit_against_his_former_friend_and_pedophile_Jeffrey_Epstein_who_had_%27regular%27_orgies_at_his_Caribbean_compound_that_the_former_president_visited_multiple_times/33917/0/38/38/Y/M.html. For further information, our Chief Executive's wife has been in Mr. Epstein's employ before he was elected Gov. of the Virgin Islands (US).

So, be able to feed yourself. Next, decide the vision you are working towards. Look at the resources needed to accomplish the vision. Recruit people who have demonstrated integrity, commitment and the will to do what is in the best interest of the vision. Have the plan to get from point A to B. When the situation presents itself, the replacements are ready to carry the vision forward. That being said, everyone has a purpose & use in life even if it's fertilizer.

Truth and reconciliation. Have them wear a tattoo with a letter signifying their crimes & sins? Most do not want to become as those who have wrecked such havoc, we cannot do as they do, for then the cycle continues. Have those who have caused much of the pain & suffering to spend the rest of their days repairing the damage based on their skill. Just some thoughts.
 
Arwenn said:
But there's the rub-we tend to transpose our inner landscape and hope and wish that these pathetic power-hungry evil elite will just for once, stop and smell the impending doom....and change their ways. But it is obvious that they are not capable of doing so... It is like asking or wishing for a tornado to be a gentle breese.
They are what they are.

Revenge is a nice thought when the world has been subjected to these evil psychos for as long as it has, but as Gandhi once said, 'An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.' Until we can universally recognize character disordered individuals of every shade and keep them from any positions of power (wouldn't it be nice to test for this disorder-part of the interview process would require being tested for any shade of psychopathy), until we can look at what type of government normal people would like that is fair and equitable to all, the end point is the same. Or so it seems to me.

I really don't agree that revenge has any merit to it whatsoever. As I see it it's based on the false premise that if someone has caused me grief or hurt then if he suffers the same then somehow, that'll lesson my hurt. It's true, it may feel better in the short run - just like the happiness you get out form purchasing a new car. I do believe that wrong deeds should be punished in some fashion and actions should have consequences but I don't think the taking of a life should be among the options.

The taking of someone's life is always a terrible solution but sometimes it might still be advisable - I'd take a life if failing to do so would endanger the lives of my family or myself, for instance.

Killing someone if it's not necessary is an STS reaction as I understand it. I hope that the Cs would have the same response if they took the poll :).
 
Thor said:
I do believe that wrong deeds should be punished in some fashion and actions should have consequences but I don't think the taking of a life should be among the options.

The taking of someone's life is always a terrible solution but sometimes it might still be advisable - I'd take a life if failing to do so would endanger the lives of my family or myself, for instance.

Killing someone if it's not necessary is an STS reaction as I understand it. I hope that the Cs would have the same response if they took the poll :).

I'm not too sure they would. Recall what they once said:

Q: Well, you are NOT improving my mood! I don't want to tell people things like that, that they have to see themselves as only souls and that the physical body is just a garment to be worn out and tossed aside. They can't handle it when they are faced with imminent possible suffering. They will get hysterical!
A: Maybe they will. And maybe they need to. Maybe they need to learn something. Nothing lasts forever, and thank goodness for that!
Q: You have talked about space battles and cosmic struggles and individuals and beings and races of beings coming from one direction or another to act in this cosmic drama...
A: It is part and parcel of the energy that maintains all existence, as are you all.
Q: You also once said that there were "good guys" and "bad guys."
A: From a chosen perspective.
Q: Does that mean that the "good guys" and "bad guys" CHOOSE to undertake these roles for the sake of this Cosmic Drama?
A: Yes, to some extent. It also means that to the fishes and the cockroaches, et al, "you is de bad guys." Subjectivity reigns in STS!

And:

A: Did you catch the significance of the answer regarding
time table of cluster and brown star? Human cycle mirrors
cycle of catastrophe. Earth benefits in form of periodic
cleansing.
Time to start paying attention to the signs.
They are escalating. They can even be "felt" by you and
others, if you pay attention.

So, somehow, I don't think the Cs, or the Cosmos for that matter, has the same "it's so holy" view of human life that you are expressing here.

Clearly, we must kill to eat; so does the Cosmos. And placing humans above every other form of life seems to me to be hubris. Nature itself doesn't value life that way because it has it in abundance: there is never a shortage. So, in the end, is it life itself that is so valuable, or is it SOME life that aligns with nature and fulfills its aims?

As Gurdjieff said about good and evil, when you have an AIM, what is good is what gets you to that AIM, and evil is what prevents it. I think that is similar to what the Cs said above that "good guys and bad guys" are only thus depending on perspective.
 
Voted yes all the way (58.01% now). Ok sure death isn't always the answer but I think they took that card off of the table a loooong time ago. Multiple times in fact. What's worse is if you think about them slowly killing the population using lies, food, and other measures for the sake of power and money for themselves, it is almost considerate of us if we let them visit ethereal existence in a peaceful manner.

And I think if we can posit the notion that death isn't necessarily annihilation of existence than one can liken this to sending them to time out. For all we know, they are aware of this and that makes them less hesitant when using us as pawns in their wars. Or......worse they adhere to the permanent annihilation at death paradigm. Which only means that they care that much less about us. So I think either way you slice it is hard for me personally to rationalize sparing their lives given these conditions.

Remember execution does not necessarily mean a painful torturous death. Even though that may be what they deserve all things considered.
 
Laura said:
<snip>

So, somehow, I don't think the Cs, or the Cosmos for that matter, has the same "it's so holy" view of human life that you are expressing here.




Clearly, we must kill to eat; so does the Cosmos. And placing humans above every other form of life seems to me to be hubris. Nature itself doesn't value life that way because it has it in abundance: there is never a shortage. So, in the end, is it life itself that is so valuable, or is it SOME life that aligns with nature and fulfills its aims?

As Gurdjieff said about good and evil, when you have an AIM, what is good is what gets you to that AIM, and evil is what prevents it. I think that is similar to what the Cs said above that "good guys and bad guys" are only thus depending on perspective.

It's not that I think human life or life is particularly holy. My point is that I life shouldn't be taken needlessly. I don't think animals should be killed needlessly either (I know I argued the opposite point in the "Marius the Giraffe thread" but that thread made me think a lot about it and come to different conclusion).

Killing to eat is part of nature and what I wanted to convey was that it was actually not the killing per se that was the problem as there are instances where killing is the right thing to do. But what I am reacting against is the killing for the sake of revenge or killing when it's not part of nature. I might be wrong but I am not aware of any animals that kill just for the sport or out of revenge or jealousy. Two animals may be in a fight and if one dies during the fight so be it.

I am all for cosmic cleansing and purges and I agree that this world needs a pretty strong detox and I hope that it will take away the elite and the psychopaths but until the situation is such that I find it necessary to kill any person I'd rather go for a less severe option. This then brings up the question of when is killing necessary? That's a hard one to answer and I don't claim to know the answer to that question.



trendsetter37 said:
Voted yes all the way (58.01% now). Ok sure death isn't always the answer but I think they took that card off of the table a loooong time ago. Multiple times in fact. What's worse is if you think about them slowly killing the population using lies, food, and other measures for the sake of power and money for themselves, it is almost considerate of us if we let them visit ethereal existence in a peaceful manner.

And I think if we can posit the notion that death isn't necessarily annihilation of existence than one can liken this to sending them to time out. For all we know, they are aware of this and that makes them less hesitant when using us as pawns in their wars. Or......worse they adhere to the permanent annihilation at death paradigm. Which only means that they care that much less about us. So I think either way you slice it is hard for me personally to rationalize sparing their lives given these conditions.

Remember execution does not necessarily mean a painful torturous death. Even though that may be what they deserve all things considered.

The idea of a "Time-Out" is a good point - I hadn't thought of that. :)

While I acknowledge that they've done horrifying things themselves and by way of their policies and scheming made billions suffer I still don't think they deserve "a painful and torturous death". To me that's like something out of the Old Testament with "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth".

As always on this Forum when a significant number of members have a different opinion from my own it makes me pause and reconsider as there might be something I'm not aware of in my reaction to a particular issue. I'm not trying to sound holier than thou and I invite you to help me see if there things I'm not noticing here.
 
Laura said:
Arwenn said:
So if an opportunity presents itself, will the same cycle just keep repeating itself? History seems to indicate so.... Greedy power-crazed elite->oppressed citizens->revolt/revolution/cataclysm -> opportunistic psychopaths take over again (under the guise of a citizen friendly regime change)....

Yes, that is what is worrisome. In my scoping out the news almost every day, keeping up with SOTT, I notice a growing trend where such ideas are expressed overtly. Revolution, eliminating the wealthy elite, killing off psychopaths at the top and in the population, the many examples being set by various things happening around the world, the growing rage...

Can outcome be any different in STS realm ? IMHO erasing the top 3D STS hierarchy is just opening up opportunity for others to STS grow. Moreover, I think it serves STS agenda even more as far as creating more disguised/covert/optimized STS at the top. May be if STS'ness % gets kept at certain threshold, impetus for change that matters is going to be lowered too ?

And in this particular instance of corrupt lawmakers, are uncorrupted laws going to be any different ? They are still going to come from people and their subjective perspective & power ploy agendas, which imho is corrupt by definition ? I am generally against lawmaking. Seems like laws are created to keep higher STS hierarchy protected and their actions justified. Do more or less conscious people need any laws in order to do right things ?

But who knows, I am just an idiot :)
 
What is wrong with people that they could be brain washed to become animals?

Firing Squad Or Hanging? AG Candidate Wants Death Penalty For Corrupt Lawmakers
April 4, 2014 3:51 PM

Thank you for voting!
Yes, a strong message needs to be sent 58.07% (5,288 votes)

Yes, but only in the most egregious cases 21.84% (1,989 votes)

No, public floggings are much more fun 9.98% (909 votes)

No, this is a crazy idea to grab attention 8.84% (805 votes)

Maybe, I'm feeling indecisive today and probably shouldn't determine the fate of others. 1.27% (116 votes)

Total Votes: 9,107

It has all the pinnings of the Circus blood lust days of Rome, under the throne of Caligula, aka CBS.
Provocations:
_fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caligula
He took great pleasure in stating that the granaries of Rome were empty wheat (even though they were full) only to be able to attend the show riots he had created.
Similarly, he amused himself by inviting the public to the circus for a promised show "tremendous" and then ordered to close the doors of the circus, tucking in the arena of gladiators and wild beasts senile stunted, and left the meeting burn under the scorching sun.
However, it was crazy; one day he declared war on Poseidon, and ordered the people to go stab the water!
 
I didn't take the poll, my answer wasn't one of the options. I think the truly evil ones ought to be. I think the rest ought to have all assets seized (not limited to politicians) to be put into a general restoration fund, and be made indentured servants for the rest of humanity, rebuilding, with their own hands, what they caused to be destroyed as punishment.

Kris
 
So, somehow, I don't think the Cs, or the Cosmos for that matter, has the same "it's so holy" view of human life that you are expressing here.

Clearly, we must kill to eat; so does the Cosmos. And placing humans above every other form of life seems to me to be hubris. Nature itself doesn't value life that way because it has it in abundance: there is never a shortage. So, in the end, is it life itself that is so valuable, or is it SOME life that aligns with nature and fulfills its aims?

As Gurdjieff said about good and evil, when you have an AIM, what is good is what gets you to that AIM, and evil is what prevents it. I think that is similar to what the Cs said above that "good guys and bad guys" are only thus depending on perspective.



I might be somewhat off topic but that brings to mind something I read awhile ago.


THE RELIGION OF THE FIRST CHRISTIANS


It is possible that more than one religious hero have contributed fragments to the
traditional figure of Jesus. The Unknown Noble have never been a few and feeble folk.
They are born in every village, and lie in nameless graves all round the globe.
Every day they emerge from the wombs of obscure mothers ; every day they go to sleep under the coverlet of the earth, blessed by the tears and love of friends, but unrecorded on marble and unmentioned in the public place.

If, at any turning-point in moral history, the consciousness of a new religious need becomes widespread and coincides with the appearance of noble natures who can utter the common sigh, the common joy, the common resolution, then a heroic myth will spring into being, and expand into sublime proportions.

It will be a myth in its lack of personal and local accuracy of detail; it will be a reality in its testimony to the emotions of the people.

It will be an historic impossibility ; it will be a sociological truth.

Jesus was the voice of the people ; the history of their soul ; the picture of the Christian proletariat; the key to their psychology.

Treat the gospel, if you will, as an entire legend. It makes no difference.
Legend or half-legend, it was conceived in sincerity and believed with passion, and, for that reason, may be accepted as a sure index to the mind and character of its adherents.

I venture to assert that our study of Christian origins must take the fresh turn I have thus indicated, or become unprofitable. A disciplined mind cannot now receive the Christian gospel as historical ; but neither can it remain contented with the mere proof of its mythical beginnings.
Mythical structure is not the ultimate fact in the Christian or any other supernatural religion.

The ultimate fact consists in the moral sentiment which chose the myth for its vehicle.
What is the meaning of the myth ? Assume that Christ never performed a miracle, or rose from the dead.
That is not the end of our research.

The Christ-myth is not the essential point of interest.
The interest gathers round the people who embraced the myth, or the half-myth.
Their religions temper, and not the dogmatic form of their creed, is the final goal of our study.
We seek, not the narrow and personal, but the broad and popular significance of the gospel.
What were the social forces which it conveyed? What were the human grief, gladness, and anticipation which it imaged ?

And because we approach the gospel as a token of the emotions of a community, and not as a display of individual moral prowess, we shall speak, not of the religion of Christ, but of the religion of the first Christians.

They yearned for a homely and dramatic expression of religious kinship, and the figure of Jesus, beckoning tired wanderers and labourers to his bosom, supplied the need.

Here was no awful Republic governed by philosophers; here was no cold principle of conformity with nature ; here was no exacting regulation of habits and observances.
But here was a kind of hospitality — a friend blessed with abundance offering a shelter and a welcome. To represent Jesus as extending this invitation was but a concrete and poetical means of declaring that this neighbourly and cordial sympathy was the very substance of religion.

For where honest souls, however poor, come together in mutual respect and love, there dwells the inward peace, and in the joining of hands the toilsome hewers of wood and drawers of water find rest unto their souls. These poor people loved each other; that made the new religion.


Christian love was the cry of the poor ; as if they said to the philosophers, " You have made a system of morality, and left us out. But our hearts also can love justice; for we can love each other."

Christianity was the great sob, the great sigh, and also the great smile of a proletariat that was learning its own human dignity.

Then, again, the gospels teem with prejudice against the learned and (to use the current phrase) upper classes. This feeling against the upper classes is not a wholesome democratic conviction that the possession of wealth lays the owners open to special vices of luxury and tyranny. It is an uncritical, sweeping vehemence which includes all rich men and officials under the head of villains.


Is it the hero who
makes a noble people?

Or a noble people which
makes the hero?


https://archive.org/stream/religionfirstch01goulgoog#page/n4/mode/2up
 
There will always be psychopathic, greedy rulers in a third density STS realm, and those who would learn must do it the hard way because of them. If the psychos did not arise perhaps we would just stay at this level pleasing ourselves it seems, with no growth, only entropy. However we chose this existence to speed up our development, not to slow it down.

The C's implied somewhere, (wish I could find it), that the only way out is to get to 4th density - a level playing field. The psychopaths never learn, and neither do we as the cycles repeat. Except this cycle is in phase and coming with the end of this grand cycle, so something unique could happen this time, or at least something that has not happened for a very long time, and the future is open.

There could have been a few more options in this poll - one for example: teach about psychopaths in grade school.

[Edit: added quote from session 980725]

session 980725 said:
Q: (L) Well, you once said something about the transition to
4th density creating a 'level playing field.' Then, the people will
wake up and there will be a battle between the humans and
aliens...
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And if it is a more level playing field, then the situation
would not quite be the same as the Conquistadores against
the Aztecs and the Native Americans against the Europeans
and...
A: Wrong, all in that drama were at 3rd density. The rabbits,
rats, dogs, etc. are not on a level playing field with you!
Q: (L) Do the aliens know about the upcoming comets and all
that sort of thing?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And they have the idea that what they are doing, this
race they are creating, is going to survive this cataclysmic
activity?
A: Of course.
Q: (L) Is that 'of course' as in they ARE going to survive, or
that they BELIEVE they are going to survive?
A: Both.
Q: (L) Okay, you once told us that this was like a 'cosmic
battle.' That the cycle was going to create balance and so on.
I am trying to understand this. If that is the case, it seems that
there is more to it than the Conquistadores against the Aztecs
and the Europeans against the Native Americans; that at some
point the story changes - the oppressed fight back - I am
trying to get the allegory into a more understandable
framework. Do you see what I mean?
A: No.
Q: (L) Well, that is because I am confused. What I am trying
to ask without asking it directly is: what chance do we have of
doing anything?
A: You are still not seeing the "bigger picture."
Q: (L) What is the bigger picture?
A: Your souls, your consciousness.

Somewhere in the Wave Series I remember a discussion with the C's that implies that moving to 4th density is the only solution.
 
From what I've read of the Clinton's I could I see execution as justified. I wouldn't be convinced on George W. Bush or Obama for example.

Anyone can choose to exact justice by deadly force, and I could be in subjective agreement with that action.

I probably would say I don't think "corrupt politicians should be executed" because this statement implies to me some authority with impunity doing the executing, which I wouldn't trust. even when the authority is a set of jurors, I don't like it.
 
Tomek said:
Redrock12 said:
I voted for execution only for the most egregious crimes.
That would be executive decisions resulting in war crimes and crimes against humanity, ie invading a sovereign state resulting in mass killings, indirect genocide via destruction of infrastructure, homes, property.
I did the same. That's already a lot of people !

So did I.

Here is the last stand.
 

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There is no question that the psychopathic elite at the top of the hierarchy need to go. And maybe an execution might be a fitting end to those that have caused the most egregious harm to others. But I guess the thing is what do we replace them with?

Maybe we just need to take our power back, or maybe find it for the first time, I don`t know which though I don`t think that executing people is the best answer. Maybe learning to recognize and control psychopaths is really what needs to be done. Thing is, that would entail work and people are basically lazy creatures, most are more then happy to give away responsibility to anyone willing to take it.

Humanity, apparently has not yet matured beyond wishing and hoping that the world will change without actually putting a united effort into it.

And until that day comes, nothing can change.


"And still the common people suffer hunger and thirst, and have nowhere to lay the head.
They are men of sorrows, and acquainted with grief, and still they pray, " Give us this day our daily bread." And still they go in procession to Jerusalem, filled with expectation of the Kingdom.
And still they are arrested and betrayed by ignorance and selfishness. And still they go to the cross in the mine, the white-lead works, the workhouse, the battlefield.
And still the Easter morning returns, and the resurrection; and the people rise again in a Peasants' War, a French Revolution, a franchise agitation, a Free thought movement, a demand for better education, better conditions, better government. And still they look for a Day of Judgment, when greed, injustice, and militarism shall be swept into eternal darkness and the kingdom of peace shall be established. And still the world gazes upwards, and still it waits as the men of Galilee waited.
It is looking for the Lord to redeem all wrong.

But that is because the world has not learned the lesson of the cross and the gospel.

It must learn that the world is both the sufferer and the saviour ; both the sinner and the Messiah ; both the manger and the kingdom. The world must fix its own judgment-day, set its own conscience on the throne, speak the curse upon its own sin, and raise the bulwarks of a society where hunger, ignorance, and crime shall be no more.

And when the lesson of the cross is learned, then the cross may pass away."
 
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