Show #14: Bitcoin, Gold and the Cashless Society
- Thread starter Niall
- Start date
Just listening, whereby it was mentioned that 90 + percent of transactions enters the system, yet transaction can be and do become suspended from system controls (for a time). When thinking about just how much cash can circulate amongst people without system controls, it seems like it is not well factored, yet the banks/government know exactly this and need that source of energy under their dominion.
So in this respect, a cashless society; still fiat, without physical fiat paper, is also designed to vacuums this uncontrolled energy. It seem to me that in reality, any town, municipality, city or country - presently, with cash paper, if it is withheld from the cash register system, can circulate amongst people and it has certain energy, its value is agreed upon, it is under the table so to speak. So this paper/coin pays somebody for a tractor/used car/bicycle they may need, and that person buys half a beef & chickens from their neighbor, and they pay another friend a debt they owe, and they in turn may spread it around in cash tips being given to servers etc. without, unless declared, being subjected to system taxes and re-appropriation to the banks. This cash/coin can carry along in society with a certain energy, without system controls (except for its original coming into the market) for a long time until it enters back into the mercantile market and then gets nipped by taxes and interest and banking control. As such, people are paying each other in cash (under the table) everywhere in the world; the service sector sees a bartender for instance make x dollars per hour, which is system taxed and flows through a bank back into cash. Their hourly wages however could be actually + y & z that then moves with energy as described above, outside the systems.
A cashless society would effectively end this (which carries huge implications for people) until people figured out different mechanisms for carrying out what they have always been doing, trying to stay outside the system with the systems own fiat money.
So in this respect, a cashless society; still fiat, without physical fiat paper, is also designed to vacuums this uncontrolled energy. It seem to me that in reality, any town, municipality, city or country - presently, with cash paper, if it is withheld from the cash register system, can circulate amongst people and it has certain energy, its value is agreed upon, it is under the table so to speak. So this paper/coin pays somebody for a tractor/used car/bicycle they may need, and that person buys half a beef & chickens from their neighbor, and they pay another friend a debt they owe, and they in turn may spread it around in cash tips being given to servers etc. without, unless declared, being subjected to system taxes and re-appropriation to the banks. This cash/coin can carry along in society with a certain energy, without system controls (except for its original coming into the market) for a long time until it enters back into the mercantile market and then gets nipped by taxes and interest and banking control. As such, people are paying each other in cash (under the table) everywhere in the world; the service sector sees a bartender for instance make x dollars per hour, which is system taxed and flows through a bank back into cash. Their hourly wages however could be actually + y & z that then moves with energy as described above, outside the systems.
A cashless society would effectively end this (which carries huge implications for people) until people figured out different mechanisms for carrying out what they have always been doing, trying to stay outside the system with the systems own fiat money.
Psalehesost
The Living Force
Lots of noise with the present (third) caller, when he's not speaking. Makes it hard to hear the team.
QuantumLogic
Jedi
Good show with a lot of in depth discussion on the role and function of currency. Thanks again everyone!
Rich
The Living Force
Yes, interesting stuff :) Thanks.
Coincidently, Just after listening to your show, the BBC World Service had a show of its own just on the topic of Bitcoin too. The way the MSM is treating the subject has the feel of a subtle guerilla marketing campaign to me, sowing the seeds of demand for digital money akin to the theory you posited: bitcoin being a precursor to an electronic cashless society that the masses will call for.
As to whose behind it, it could be factions within the banking cartels themselves.
Coincidently, Just after listening to your show, the BBC World Service had a show of its own just on the topic of Bitcoin too. The way the MSM is treating the subject has the feel of a subtle guerilla marketing campaign to me, sowing the seeds of demand for digital money akin to the theory you posited: bitcoin being a precursor to an electronic cashless society that the masses will call for.
As to whose behind it, it could be factions within the banking cartels themselves.
jonspock
Padawan Learner
yeah great show.
For those interested in this subject. IEEE Spectrum magazine did a whole issue on this topic in June 2012. Most of it may be available online. (http://spectrum.ieee.org/magazine/2012/June)
Such as
http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/innovation/the-beginning-of-the-end-of-cash
Bitcoin
http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/bitcoin-the-cryptoanarchists-answer-to-cash/0
and a nice Jpg of how bitcoin works
http://spectrum.ieee.org/img/06Bitcoin-1338412974774.jpg
Watch out though for the mainstream thinking. Such as :
Anarchists, drug dealers, prostitutes, politicians, dog walkers, and nannies all have reason to prefer cash. How about you?
Looks like some more demonizing of cash is still needed....
One more interesting tidbit. Golden Gate Bridge tolls in California have gone totally electronic. i.e no longer accepting cash.
So it appears to be OK now not to accept "legal tender"
When cash is no longer legal tender then it's days will probably be numbered.
For those interested in this subject. IEEE Spectrum magazine did a whole issue on this topic in June 2012. Most of it may be available online. (http://spectrum.ieee.org/magazine/2012/June)
Such as
http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/innovation/the-beginning-of-the-end-of-cash
Bitcoin
http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/bitcoin-the-cryptoanarchists-answer-to-cash/0
and a nice Jpg of how bitcoin works
http://spectrum.ieee.org/img/06Bitcoin-1338412974774.jpg
Watch out though for the mainstream thinking. Such as :
Anarchists, drug dealers, prostitutes, politicians, dog walkers, and nannies all have reason to prefer cash. How about you?
Looks like some more demonizing of cash is still needed....
One more interesting tidbit. Golden Gate Bridge tolls in California have gone totally electronic. i.e no longer accepting cash.
So it appears to be OK now not to accept "legal tender"
When cash is no longer legal tender then it's days will probably be numbered.
foofighter
Jedi Council Member
Great discussion! Regarding Bitcoin and anonymity, here's an attempt at dealing with that particular problem:
_http://spar.isi.jhu.edu/~mgreen/ZerocoinOakland.pdf
When it comes to the gold price smash, it was not so clearly pointed out that this was done mainly in the gold futures paper market, where essentially one player caused this. Ted Butler has an excellent writeup with the details, and here's a part of it:
_http://silverdoctors.com/ted-butler-the-gold-silver-price-smash-who-what-how-and-why/
_http://spar.isi.jhu.edu/~mgreen/ZerocoinOakland.pdf
Of course, even with fixing the ledger problem there is still the ISP snooping issues, and other forms of anonymity issues.
When it comes to the gold price smash, it was not so clearly pointed out that this was done mainly in the gold futures paper market, where essentially one player caused this. Ted Butler has an excellent writeup with the details, and here's a part of it:
_http://silverdoctors.com/ted-butler-the-gold-silver-price-smash-who-what-how-and-why/
On the physical side I would recommend reading the articles on the King World News website, which make it clear that a lot of physical buyers, big and small, saw this as an amazing discount opportunity, resulting is massive buying.