Smoking is... good?

[Freya Stewart]

I really miss the old wild west days of the rise of vaping . The products were much better before the government started regulating it so heavily. It was much cheaper than smoking and we had an incredible selection of products available online. Almost overnight it became illegal in my state to purchase vape liquids online relegating us to what was available through local brick and mortar stores. At the time, we patronized a small local independent shop owned by a very helpful and knowledgeable young couple. They closed up shop as government regulations tightened. At this point we only have a corporate chain store called Vaper Maven that I've watched pop up everywhere around my regional vicinity the last few years.

I backed off of vaping for a couple of years and went back to alternating between smoking organic tobacco and using oral nicotine products from a company called Lucy. I started vaping again last year and noticed that the liquids available through the local chain just weren't very good anymore no matter how many flavors I tried. I noticed a lot of brands starting to promote themselves as synthetic nicotine products, and even my favorite nicotine gum is proudly proclaiming they are moving to the exclusive use of tobacco free synthetic nicotine. I'm disappointed, but not surprised to see any trace of the wonderful tobacco being slowly squeezed out of this industry. Especially considering the benefits that we know this plant has to offer for humans in terms of defense.

I found this study that explains some of the molecular differences between the two types of nicotine. It claims that companies are moving to using synthetic nicotine to circumvent existing regulations in the tobacco industry, but I'm not so sure.

Synthetic nicotine has arrived | Tobacco Control

 

[Starshine]

For those interested in reducing their costs and living in France/Belgium, there is the possibility to buy it in whole leaf and grind it. After trying to grow some, the hardest part remains the drying process, so we decided to buy leaves through this website: AUTOTABAC fournisseur français de Feuilles de tabac 100% naturel
They originally advised us to get a grinding machine from Trezo, especially the 160 regarding our quantities, and with 0.8 mm cutting rollers as we roll our cigarettes. TREZO 160 0.8 V3 Tobacco cutting machine

We struggled the first time, as our cutting rollers are really thin, you really have to keep it all wet, or else everything will rapidly stick, and you're good to dismount and clean everything. We don't hesitate to use a water spray all along the process to help keep it clean. You can put some edible oil on the roller before and after a session. I dismount everything after each session to clean it all up.

Lys and I take an afternoon to make 2 kg. We tried different mixes but now stick to 1/3 Yellow Virginian 1/3 oriental 1/3 Orange Virginian. You have to remove the central rod of each leaf and keep it wet. Not so much for the yellow Virginian leaves, but really important for all the others, or else they will turn into dust. You don't want it to be too wet either, as it will be longer to dry out. There will be residue cumulating on the comb over the session, don't obsess about it, remove it at the end, or else you'll have a lot of small clots inside your tobacco.
Let it dry for several days in cardboard boxes, stirring regularly, before storing it in tobacco boxes, and you're done for a moment.
It severely reduced our costs, heavy smokers we are!

 

[Esote]

For those interested in reducing their costs and living in France/Belgium, there is the possibility to buy it in whole leaf and grind it. After trying to grow some, the hardest part remains the drying process, so we decided to buy leaves through this website: AUTOTABAC fournisseur français de Feuilles de tabac 100% naturel
They originally advised us to get a grinding machine from Trezo, especially the 160 regarding our quantities, and with 0.8 mm cutting rollers as we roll our cigarettes. TREZO 160 0.8 V3 Tobacco cutting machine

We struggled the first time, as our cutting rollers are really thin, you really have to keep it all wet, or else everything will rapidly stick, and you're good to dismount and clean everything. We don't hesitate to use a water spray all along the process to help keep it clean. You can put some edible oil on the roller before and after a session. I dismount everything after each session to clean it all up.

Lys and I take an afternoon to make 2 kg. We tried different mixes but now stick to 1/3 Yellow Virginian 1/3 oriental 1/3 Orange Virginian. You have to remove the central rod of each leaf and keep it wet. Not so much for the yellow Virginian leaves, but really important for all the others, or else they will turn into dust. You don't want it to be too wet either, as it will be longer to dry out. There will be residue cumulating on the comb over the session, don't obsess about it, remove it at the end, or else you'll have a lot of small clots inside your tobacco.
Let it dry for several days in cardboard boxes, stirring regularly, before storing it in tobacco boxes, and you're done for a moment.
It severely reduced our costs, heavy smokers we are!

100% natural but not organic, which is a problem since pesticides and herbicides plus chemical fertilizers are used to grow the tobacco plants, and this is not good for your health AFAIK...

 

[broken.english]

You can put some edible oil on the roller before and after a session.

You better not burn and inhale edible oil!

It would be safer to use vegetable glycerin for greasing. It is a primitive alcohol, can be mixed with water and can be inhaled. Natural tobacco leaves contain some glycerin in a low percentage.

 

[broken.english]

I really miss the old wild west days of the rise of vaping .

You could still enjoy some wild west days by making your own liquid. I can offer some assistance if needed.

Here is an earlier post on the subject:

Session 14 January 2023

Thanks again for a very thought-provoking and encouraging session! I thought I would post this considering the questions/answers on alien invasion and the question regarding Eastern Orthodox Christianity. A few days ago my partner found a Paul Joseph Watson interview with a Russian Orthodox...

cassiopaea.org

 

[Goemon_]

For those interested in reducing their costs and living in France/Belgium, there is the possibility to buy it in whole leaf and grind it.

The cheapest option I found for whole leaf is from a German seller on ebay: link
I paid 189 € for 10 kilos of Burley.

 

[Freya Stewart]

You could still enjoy some wild west days by making your own liquid. I can offer some assistance if needed.

Thanks, @broken.english. That's an idea worth considering. I'm not sure right now what the availability of ingredients is like in the US, but if you have some links to ingredients and tutorials, I would be interested. I just started a new job cleaning for a resort and was considering going back to smoking tobacco as my exposure to chemicals has increased. Currently trying to get the owner onboard to switch to less toxic cleaning options :). I do prefer vaping as I breathe and smell better as apposed to smoking. Do you use any flavorings in your liquid? I noticed recently that the juice I like to use the most has an allergen warning for traces of peanuts, tree nuts, milk, eggs, wheat, soy, fish, shellfish, and seeds. Except for fish and occasionally eggs, I do not consume these in my diet and am wondering how much this may be subtly counteracting my dietary efforts.

 

[3DStudent]

Would 2 or 3 cigarettes a day be enough for the coating protective effect of smoking? Just wondering with all the chemicals going around in the air as of late. I don't smoke, but I tested it last summer and it was basically one after each meal. In any event, I think I might start again just to calm stress.

 

[broken.english]

Thanks, @broken.english. That's an idea worth considering. I'm not sure right now what the availability of ingredients is like in the US, but if you have some links to ingredients and tutorials, I would be interested.

No problem, except that my best tutorial disappeared from the web. The ingredients needed will depend from the extraction method.

Ingredients for the final liquid:
- distilled water
- vegetable glycerin(35 - 50%)
- nicotine extract
- flavour (optional, abt. 5 - 8%) s. below

Ingredients for nicotine extraction

1) Steam distillation
- distilled water
- shredded tobacco leaves

2) Acid/base separation
- distilled water
- shredded tobacco leaves
- sodium carbonate(5% or 50 gr per 950 ml of water)
- vegetable oil
- vitamin C/ascorbic acid
- baking soda

Ingredients for tobacco flavour

- alcohol(rum, vodka, brandy....)
- flavour rich tobaccos, about 10gr/100 ml alcohol (cigar, RYO tobaccos of dark varieties, Kentucky dark fired leaves...)
My personal favourite is a cheap Cuban cigar named José el Piedra.
Just let it sit for a week and filtrate.

Procedures of acid/base separation

You can more or less follow the tutorials below:

WTA extraction success...

Been following the thread down in the nic forum for some time now... decided to give it a go in the sort of wholly unscientific, unsafe manner they repeatedly warn against. The result? Great success. As I am totally bereft of any sort of lab...

www.e-cigarette-forum.com

Tobacco extraction (WTA for vaping) - let's develop a tek? - Other Psychoactives - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

If you should do so, please mind the above ingredients and quantities. You will need about 100 gr of tobacco for 100 ml liquid. Most probably you will need to evaporate some excess water before adding the vegetable glycerin.

In the first step the nicotine is removed from the tobacco leaves by the sodium carbonate solution which has a ph value of 11, strong enough to crack the binding forces. In the second step the nicotine is moved into the vegetable oil by adding the oil to the water and shake, rattle and roll it or use a mixer. Discard the water. In the third step the nicotine is removed from the oil by shaking it with a mild solution of water and vitamin C. Finally the slightly acid vitamin C - nicotine solution can be neutralised by adding some baking soda. Only small quantities of vitamin C and baking soda are needed, abt. 1/4 tsp. These two will react and form ascorbate, the salt of vitamin C, which will remain in the liquid.
The nastiest part of the whole procedure, from my experience, is the separation of oil and water. If I would do it again I would at least use 200gr of tobacco to make it worthwhile.

Procedures of distillation

Distillation is the cleanest way of extracting nicotine from tobacco. The only downside is that it needs some equipment. To my knowledge there are two options:

1) Use of a dry herb distiller
The usual suspects like ebay, Aliexpress a.s.o. are selling distillation equipment for any kind of dry herb. They work like pressure cookers. The steam will pass through a basket with tobacco and the nicotine will evaporate through a tube at he top and end up in a jar outside. The outer tubes must be cooled by water in order to prevent evaporation. Something like this:

3/5/8/11Gallon Moonshine Still Water Alcohol Distiller Whiskey Spirits Boiler | eBay

Moonshine Still Spirits Kit Water Alcohol Wine Distiller Features. Ensure that the temperature is accurate when distilled. Boiler Barrel Size: 13.7"DIA x 13.7"H(8 Gal) / 1pcs Boiler Barrel Size: 11.8"DIA x 11.8"H(5 Gal).

www.ebay.com

2) Pressure cooker
These can work as well if the tobacco is put in the basket above the water but with less efficiency. The nicotine will end up in the water and will be very diluted. Then the excess water has to be evaporated at moderate temperature. A smarter solution would be to process a larger quantity of tobacco, divide it in several smaller portions and cook it up in steps, thus increasing the concentration of the nicotine in water.

Finally, the roughest of all methods of nicotine extraction
In tobacco leaves nicotine is bound to malic acid. Hence the above acid/base method. But it is also water soluble and pouring hot water over tobacco will dissolve a substantial part of the nicotine. This will end up as a muddy brown liquid. Many years ago farmers would use it for plant protection.

 

[broken.english]

The cheapest option I found for whole leaf is from a German seller on ebay: link
I paid 189 € for 10 kilos of Burley.

Good shop. I bought from them repeatedly.

It is a pity that they can no longer offer tobacco strips. If anybody has a source for tobacco strips in Europe, please let me know.

 

[Fluffy]

I’ve tried a search on smoking while pregnant and can’t find anything much so I’m just gonna ask what other people’s experience with quitting smoking while pregnant is.., or keeping on smoking if that’s what you did.
I’m 17 weeks along, I quit for a few weeks and then went back to it because I was eating too much and had trouble regulating both quitting smokes and eating appropriately at the same time.

I feel bad smoking, I want to stop.

I’m posting this just to see what other people have done, or would do in the same situation.

So you know, I smoke an organic tobacco brand called Manitou, I use organic unbleached hemp paper and an unbleached cardboard roach… so no filter. I smoke about 14 of these a day generally. I cut down to smoking 8 a day before I quit cold turkey a month ago. I’m probably smoking about 10 a day currently for the past week.

I don’t know what’s worse, smoking or overeating, I’m guessing it’s overeating but don’t want that to be an excuse to keep
smoking.

Keen to know what you think!

 

[herondancer]

I don’t know what’s worse, smoking or overeating, I’m guessing it’s overeating but don’t want that to be an excuse to keep
smoking.

Keen to know what you think!

If you're normally in good health and have a good connection to your bodily states, I'd go with what you feel. In both my pregnancies, I ate the amount of food that felt good, and gave up coffee both times in the first trimester because it just didn't agree. The doc was happy about the coffee, but fretted about the food (his recommended daily menu was three days worth of food for me). I was exercising a lot, so pretty fit, and both times, everything went well. Smoking was not a question at the time, but I heard of ladies who went off cigs just because they didn't sit well. My mom smoked through five kids and we all were fine.

So what is your body (not your brain) telling you?

 

[Fluffy]

If you're normally in good health and have a good connection to your bodily states, I'd go with what you feel. In both my pregnancies, I ate the amount of food that felt good, and gave up coffee both times in the first trimester because it just didn't agree. The doc was happy about the coffee, but fretted about the food (his recommended daily menu was three days worth of food for me). I was exercising a lot, so pretty fit, and both times, everything went well. Smoking was not a question at the time, but I heard of ladies who went off cigs just because they didn't sit well. My mom smoked through five kids and we all were fine.

So what is your body (not your brain)

If you're normally in good health and have a good connection to your bodily states, I'd go with what you feel. In both my pregnancies, I ate the amount of food that felt good, and gave up coffee both times in the first trimester because it just didn't agree. The doc was happy about the coffee, but fretted about the food (his recommended daily menu was three days worth of food for me). I was exercising a lot, so pretty fit, and both times, everything went well. Smoking was not a question at the time, but I heard of ladies who went off cigs just because they didn't sit well. My mom smoked through five kids and we all were fine.

So what is your body (not your brain) telling you?

My body has been telling me not to smoke for years, I’m sensitive to it, I cough a lot, it can make me feel sick in the stomach and give me headaches, but not all the time, when it’s good it’s great and that’s where the love and addiction is, if it always sucked it would be easy to stop. I’ve tried the carnivore diet and I didn’t react to smoking at all, may be a little throat clearing but certainly no coughing or other symptoms. It seems for me the negative effects of smoking are definitely curbed on a meat only diet.

The big problem for me right now is that I had terrible nausea which was only alleviated by eating carbs, lots of them, and now I’m a carb addict and I don’t feel that great, I’m actively reducing them, this is stressful and so is not smoking….

I’ll figure it out…. Listening to the body talking is definitely the most important thing to do rather than attempting to follow anyone’s recommendation. Thanks for reminding me of that. Being pregnant is such a weird state to be in, I like it, but I feel so vulnerable and fragile and I’m hypersensitive about everything.

I just cannot make my mind up about smoking, I’m swinging all over the place about it, I do want to quit at least for the rest of the pregnancy but I don’t know if I should or if it will make things worse than they need to be, it’s been a difficult pregnancy with feeling unwell physically and emotional rollercoaster. It wasn’t planned and I certainly had no plans to quit smoking - ever- unless I had to. I even had old dry tobacco and a pipe tucked away for Armageddon, about two weeks worth to get me used to the idea that I wasn’t going to be able to get smokes anymore.

 

[Ina]

My body has been telling me not to smoke for years, I’m sensitive to it, I cough a lot, it can make me feel sick in the stomach and give me headaches, but not all the time, when it’s good it’s great and that’s where the love and addiction is, if it always sucked it would be easy to stop. I’ve tried the carnivore diet and I didn’t react to smoking at all, may be a little throat clearing but certainly no coughing or other symptoms. It seems for me the negative effects of smoking are definitely curbed on a meat only diet.

The big problem for me right now is that I had terrible nausea which was only alleviated by eating carbs, lots of them, and now I’m a carb addict and I don’t feel that great, I’m actively reducing them, this is stressful and so is not smoking….

I’ll figure it out…. Listening to the body talking is definitely the most important thing to do rather than attempting to follow anyone’s recommendation. Thanks for reminding me of that. Being pregnant is such a weird state to be in, I like it, but I feel so vulnerable and fragile and I’m hypersensitive about everything.

I just cannot make my mind up about smoking, I’m swinging all over the place about it, I do want to quit at least for the rest of the pregnancy but I don’t know if I should or if it will make things worse than they need to be, it’s been a difficult pregnancy with feeling unwell physically and emotional rollercoaster. It wasn’t planned and I certainly had no plans to quit smoking - ever- unless I had to. I even had old dry tobacco and a pipe tucked away for Armageddon, about two weeks worth to get me used to the idea that I wasn’t going to be able to get smokes anymore.

I quit smoking twice when I was pregnant and breastfeeding. I don’t think I listened to my body's messages it was rather something from an upper perspective, as it changed my mind in such a way that smoking or cigarettes weren't even under consideration. Both times, the pregnancies were unplanned, and both times I stopped as they say cold turkey, as if it was a matter of a simple switch. I think it is how you see the pregnancy. It is not a disease but rather something great and amazing, as you are preparing to bring a human being life into the world, and for that reason smoking is and means really nothing.

 

[Fluffy]

I quit smoking twice when I was pregnant and breastfeeding. I don’t think I listened to my body's messages it was rather something from an upper perspective, as it changed my mind in such a way that smoking or cigarettes weren't even under consideration. Both times, the pregnancies were unplanned, and both times I stopped as they say cold turkey, as if it was a matter of a simple switch. I think it is how you see the pregnancy. It is not a disease but rather something great and amazing, as you are preparing to bring a human being life into the world, and for that reason smoking is and means really nothing.

I guess you could call it some higher perspective that is the force behind wanting to quit, it feels like it’s coming from a part of me I don’t usually function in when thinking about smoking, I smoke because I smoke, I like it, but it’s a crutch for sure, I really identify with it…. I never encourage other people and I wouldn’t recommend it. I stay away from people if I’m smoking. Babies never smoke on purpose, it’s always someone else’s choice if they’re exposed to it or not. Is that considered abridging someone’s free will?

I’m not by any means afraid of any effects smoking might have on my unborn daughter, I’m otherwise healthy, I exercise, I eat nutritious food (too much of it though). I’ve smoked through a training program that assesses physical performance and I scored at elite fitness, where athletes that don’t smoke rank. I don’t buy into the anti smoking propaganda at all. Her health will be minimally affected by smoking and that I am quite sure of…. I’d hate to be wrong on this one, but mother’s smoked their way all through pregnancy and birth, once upon a time there were ashtrays on the bedside table in the maternity wards. If smoking was so bad for babies then many of us should be dead or at least heavily deformed.

I feel a sense of duty or something, not like guilt but may be something close, may be a protective instinct that I’m failing at or being dishonourable because I quit with my 3 other children, one of them I commenced smoking when I was 35 weeks pregnant because my brain function was so horrible and I was developing pre natal depression which blew out into post natal, so smokes didn’t help like the antidepressant I thought they’d be, or may be they did, and I would have been worse.
From the moment we decided we were going ahead with this pregnancy I had in my mind I would stop smoking, it just hasn’t happened yet.
I saw her on ultrasound on Friday…. It’s really stirred me up about wanting to quit sooner than later. Smoking stops me from over eating and I am already eating too much while smoking- that really is my biggest concern about stopping… ive struggled with eating disorders and a deranged relationship with food most of my life and I don’t want to trigger that off.