Some Questions.

[luke wilson]

Hey, I have acouple of questions that I need to ask. I am busy ploughing through my recommended reading list but I am not making as much progress as I would like. Time has caught up to me and I cant cover as much as I would like. So, anyways acouple of things come to mind whilst I read through some of the articles, books and threads.

a) Are all programmes bad? In that should we look to destroy all or are some good/essential?

b) What is the most effective way of detecting a programme? - is it just by self-observation/remembering?

c) What exactly is the ego and how should one treat it/notice its influence upon oneself?

d) Does the essence have needs, desires and wants? Or is that entirely in the domain of the personality?

e) Apart from reading works by people such as Gudjieff and co, what exactly does THE WORK involve? I just want to know in basic terms, like what it is in its roots/basic elements?

f) What is 7d?

g) What exactly is the aim of the EE programme? Just to alleviate stress/repressed emotions or is there something else?

The last question is abit hmm, weird. I have been reading some articles by Laura and the C transcripts and such. Despite it being presented in a logical almost scientific way (thus making it acceptable and almost irrefutable), its still apart from mainstream views about the world (what we have been conditioned to think) and thus one still has to question whether or not what these says are actually real in reality eg. sts and sto beings (aliens is what I mean), other dimensions, the existance of kantiek at some time in history etc.. I am not saying they are not, but obviously when you have someone like Laura explain this in a logical way and tie it to reality its hard to maybe argue against it but still you can never be 100% sure - you almost feel like you are treading a fine line between insanity and complete sanity. I just want to know if for example, something like the wave is actually something real that will actually happen?? what happens if 2012 comes and goes and everything is as it used to be? What then? Whats the big deal if there is an ice age and that global warming has been a lie? It doesnt matter either way, does it? If its an ice age, alot of people will die, if all the ice melts, still alot of people will die...
I read somewhere that either Gudjieff or one of his co. (Sorry I am bad with names) said that the coming century (20-21st century) will have lots of highly evolved souls. Obviously its nice to live in such times when you have people saying its amazing times to be alive and such, but what makes this time so important? Whats so special about the times we live in as compared to lets say 500-1000 yrs ago??

Infact I'd like to put my feelings down about the last question. Life right now as it is, is not ideal... so reading about this wave thing scenario or reincarnation and such, I am filled with hope that atleast maybe the future might be something different than now - better as it surely cant get any worse and if it does I wont be a tard bit surprised. However, as much as I personally have been shut out and put into a box in life and are only allowed to live my life within the constraints of this 'box' I come to realize that even if the wave happens, I wont be one of the people going over ontop of it but rather will be one of the people being crashed by it - this can be said to be a subjective view but none-the-less I believe it to be the true view as I have a rather long history of failing and being left behind especially when it comes to things that are important. So basically, where is the hope for the person, who is not of this world (the types that just dont fit or are rejected by society), yet they cant qualify for this being enlightened waking up wave thing scenario?? What exactly happens to this people... surely they are the ones that get the worst possible deal.

 

[Bo]

Hi Luke, all those questions can be easily found by using the search function or skimming through the ''the work'' threads.

I have been reading some articles by Laura and the C transcripts and such.

I recommend you to read the wave and the The Adventure series in it's entirety, most of your questions will be answered as they are discussed in the series.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Hi Luke, all those questions can be easily found by using the search function or skimming through the ''the work'' threads.

I have been reading some articles by Laura and the C transcripts and such.

I recommend you to read the wave and the The Adventure series in it's entirety, most of your questions will be answered as they are discussed in the series.

Hi Luke,

Yeah, it would take quite a bit of effort to try and answer all your questions in detail, and yes it is a lot of reading, maybe youre asking for the Cliff Notes version? :D

Not sure if you are aware of the Cassiopaea Glossery? A lot of the terms are explained there.

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?l=All

And are you aware of the EE Forum where you will find more answers to your questions about it?

http://eiriu-eolas.org/forum/

The rest, well, you're just gonna have to keep reading! :)

 

[vinny]

Yup, no quick 'n easy answers. However, I've tried to put together a taster, according to my understanding. The rest is up to you:

Hey, I have a couple of questions that I need to ask. I am busy ploughing through my recommended reading list but I am not making as much progress as I would like. Time has caught up to me and I cant cover as much as I would like. So, anyways acouple of things come to mind whilst I read through some of the articles, books and threads.

a) Are all programmes bad? In that should we look to destroy all or are some good/essential?

programs represent the mechanical side of our intellect and emotions, which almost entirely dominate our every move. The 'false personality'. I'm going to throw in some Gurdjieff here, and see if it is useful:

"You often think in a very naive way," he said. "You already think you can do. To get rid of this conviction is more difficult than anything else for a man. You do not understand all the complexity of your organization and you do not realize that every effort, in addition to the results desired, even if it gives these, gives thousands of unexpected and often undersirable results, and the chief thing that you forget is that you are not beginning from the beginning with a nice, clean, new machine. There stand behind you many years of wrong and stupid life, of indulgence in every kind of weakness, of shutting your eyes to your own errors, of striving to avoid all unpleasant truths, of constant lying to yourselves, of self-justification, of blaming others, and so on, and so on. All this cannot help affecting the machine. The machine is dirty, in places it is rusty, and in some places artificial appliances have been formed, the necessity for which has been created by its own wrong way of working.

"These artificial appliances will now interfere very much with all your good intentions.

"They are called 'buffers.'

"'Buffer' is a term which requires special explanation. We know what buffers on railway carriages are. They are the contrivances which lessen the shock when carriages or trucks strike one another. If there were no buffers, the shock of one carriage against another would be very unpleasant and dangerous. Buffers soften the results of these shocks and render them unnoticeable and imperceptible.

"Exactly the same appliances are to be found within man. They are created, not by nature but by man himself, although involuntarily. The cause of their appearance is the existence in man of many contradictions; contradictions of opinions, feelings, sympathies, words, and actions. If a man throughout the whole of his life were to feel all the contradictions that are within him he could not live and act as calmly as he lives and acts now. He would have constant friction, constant unrest. We fail to see how contradictory and hostile the different I's of our personality are to one another. If a man were to feel all these contradictions he would feel what he really is. He would feel that he is mad. It is not pleasant to anyone to feel that he is mad. Moreover, a thought such as this deprives a man of self confidence, weakens his energy, deprives him of his 'self-respect.' Somehow or other he must master this thought or banish it. He must either destroy the contradictions or cease to see and to feel them. A man cannot destroy contradictions. But if 'buffers' are created in him he can cease to feel them and he will not feel the impact from the clash of contradictory views, contradictory emotions, contradictory words.

"'Buffers' are created slowly and gradually. Very many 'buffers' are created artificially through 'education.' Others are created under the hypnotic influence of all surrounding life. A man is surrounded by people who live, speak, think, and feel by means of 'buffers.' Imitating them in their opinions, actions, and words, a man involuntarily creates similar 'buffers' in himself. 'Buffers' make a man's life more easy. It is very hard to live without 'buffers.' But they keep man from the possibility of inner development because 'buffers' are made to lessen shocks that can lead a man out of the state in which he lives, that is, waken him. 'Buffers' will lull a man to sleep, give him the agreeable and peaceful sensation that all will be well, that no contradictions exist and that he can sleep in peace. 'Buffers' are appliances by means of which a man can always be in the right. 'Buffers' help a man not to feel his conscience."

b) What is the most effective way of detecting a programme? - is it just by self-observation/remembering?

self observation is the key. But this is not so easy. It requires much work, and cannot be done alone. It requires external help, because following this path will lead you to reach a point of deep realisation that: "you cannot think about the way you think with the way you think".

c) What exactly is the ego and how should one treat it/notice its influence upon oneself?

It is a term that gets thrown around to mean all kinds of things, but you might think of the ego as the false personality, as above.

Or, maybe you'd prefer Castaneda's way of describing it:

In order to keep us obedient and meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous maneuver - stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist. A horrendous maneuver from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators' mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now.

I know that even though you have never suffered hunger... you have food anxiety, which is none other than the anxiety of the predator who fears that any moment now its maneuver is going to be uncovered and food is going to be denied. Through the mind, which, after all, is their mind, the predators inject into the lives of human beings whatever is convenient for them. And they ensure, in this manner, a degree of security to act as a buffer against their fear.

d) Does the essence have needs, desires and wants? Or is that entirely in the domain of the personality?

The essence has it's own strivings, that are shouted down by the 'false personality' (programs). Whether you can call that desires/wants is kinda tricky. 'Desires' gives me the impression of 'superficial wants', where as true 'soul questing' is more a case of a fundamental reaching out towards that which represents it's natural path of growth.

e) Apart from reading works by people such as Gudjieff and co, what exactly does THE WORK involve? I just want to know in basic terms, like what it is in its roots/basic elements?

I think you'd find 'In Search of The Miraculous' goes some way to answer your question.

f) What is 7d?

Maybe it's best to have a look at 'The Wave' for this one.

g) What exactly is the aim of the EE programme? Just to alleviate stress/repressed emotions or is there something else?

Basically, to give people a tool to help them heal themselves. So that they can be better prepared for whatever challenges life has in store.

The last question is abit hmm, weird. I have been reading some articles by Laura and the C transcripts and such. Despite it being presented in a logical almost scientific way (thus making it acceptable and almost irrefutable), its still apart from mainstream views about the world (what we have been conditioned to think)
and thus one still has to question whether or not what these says are actually real in reality eg. sts and sto beings (aliens is what I mean), other dimensions, the existance of kantiek at some time in history etc.. I am not saying they are not, but obviously when you have someone like Laura explain this in a logical way and tie it to reality its hard to maybe argue against it but still you can never be 100% sure - you almost feel like you are treading a fine line between insanity and complete sanity.

I think you made a good point and never realised it, ie: it's different from what we have been conditioned to think. And no, you can never be 100% sure. You have to do the work, do the research, tune your discernment, make the best hypotheses based on ALL the available data.

Question everything. But from as objective a viewpoint as one can possibly muster, which requires simultaneous internal work, on oneself.

And when things are unresolved, live with the ambiguity.

I just want to know if for example, something like the wave is actually something real that will actually happen?? what happens if 2012 comes and goes and everything is as it used to be? What then? Whats the big deal if there is an ice age and that global warming has been a lie? It doesnt matter either way, does it? If its an ice age, alot of people will die, if all the ice melts, still alot of people will die...

it might be a good idea to be reading the signs as they come in, with as wide a context as possible, so as to be better prepared for 'whatever', though?

I read somewhere that either Gudjieff or one of his co. (Sorry I am bad with names) said that the coming century (20-21st century) will have lots of highly evolved souls. Obviously its nice to live in such times when you have people saying its amazing times to be alive and such, but what makes this time so important? Whats so special about the times we live in as compared to lets say 500-1000 yrs ago??

because here we are. This is what we've got to work with :P

Infact I'd like to put my feelings down about the last question. Life right now as it is, is not ideal... so reading about this wave thing scenario or reincarnation and such, I am filled with hope that atleast maybe the future might be something different than now - better as it surely cant get any worse and if it does I wont be a tard bit surprised. However, as much as I personally have been shut out and put into a box in life and are only allowed to live my life within the constraints of this 'box' I come to realize that even if the wave happens, I wont be one of the people going over ontop of it but rather will be one of the people being crashed by it - this can be said to be a subjective view but none-the-less I believe it to be the true view as I have a rather long history of failing and being left behind especially when it comes to things that are important. So basically, where is the hope for the person, who is not of this world (the types that just dont fit or are rejected by society), yet they cant qualify for this being enlightened waking up wave thing scenario?? What exactly happens to this people... surely they are the ones that get the worst possible deal.

it depends on how you see life. Life is an opportunity:

Life is religion. Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the world will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the 'past.' People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the 'Future.

 

[luke wilson]

Thanks for the replies. Uhmm I have looked at the cassiopedia but couldnt find the definition of the ego, but instead found one of the personality so I figured I might aswell ask. I'll take it to mean false personality as nomad stated.

What is soul questing? it's not in the cassiopedia.

I'll read the wave and adventure series in there entirety.

 

[Possibility of Being]

Hi luke,

Infact I'd like to put my feelings down about the last question. Life right now as it is, is not ideal... so reading about this wave thing scenario or reincarnation and such, I am filled with hope that atleast maybe the future might be something different than now - better as it surely cant get any worse and if it does I wont be a tard bit surprised. However, as much as I personally have been shut out and put into a box in life and are only allowed to live my life within the constraints of this 'box' I come to realize that even if the wave happens, I wont be one of the people going over ontop of it but rather will be one of the people being crashed by it - this can be said to be a subjective view but none-the-less I believe it to be the true view as I have a rather long history of failing and being left behind especially when it comes to things that are important. So basically, where is the hope for the person, who is not of this world (the types that just dont fit or are rejected by society), yet they cant qualify for this being enlightened waking up wave thing scenario?? What exactly happens to this people... surely they are the ones that get the worst possible deal.

You are asking about programs, so I've bolded that part where one is mentioned by you; you even seem to identify with it. Or, if you prefer, you have bought from some sort of 'mainstream wisdom/data base' the belief that you are just like that. Most likely, YOU are not. Your programmed mind (predator) wants you to believe it as it's much easier then to keep its control over you.

Did you hear about self-fulfilling prophecies? The predator is a very smart beast. First, it makes you believe in something and then, it leads you through your life experiences in such a way that you yourself make it 'true' over and over again. You can sabotage your own efforts so to prove to yourself that 'you' are right, and your belief is justified. We like confirmations of what we believe in.

Now, the question is, do you like it? Do you want it to become true? If you do, that's okey and there is no need to do anything about that; just take that trait of yours for granted and go on with your life. You are pretty much on a right track. But if, after giving it some thoughts, you realize you do not like it, you were not like that while learning to walk, for example, so maybe that’s not how you have to be, maybe you have a choice - then the Work may begin: exploring, digging, testing, improving, proving otherwise. This way, step by step, with your own effort and with a help from the network, you have chance to get closer to who you really are/can BE.

Hope it makes sense to you.

 

[luke wilson]

Quote from Possibility of Being.

You are asking about programs, so I've bolded that part where one is mentioned by you; you even seem to identify with it. Or, if you prefer, you have bought from some sort of 'mainstream wisdom/data base' the belief that you are just like that. Most likely, YOU are not. Your programmed mind (predator) wants you to believe it as it's much easier then to keep its control over you.

I want to make sure I understand exactly what you mean and that I dont misunderstand you. Do you mean that "I come to realize that even if the wave happens, I wont be one of the people going over ontop of it but rather will be one of the people being crashed by it" is a programme and that "as I have a rather long history of failing and being left behind especially when it comes to things that are important" is me identifying with it (the programme itself)? Are you saying that I have somehow acquired this view about myself from some 'mainstream wisdom/data base' and that as it's a programme, my predator mind wants me to believe in it(the programme) as its much easier than it(the predator mind) keeping control over me?

If my interpretation of what I think you mean is correct, then I want to ask, why is it easier for the predator mind to let me believe in this rather than it just keeping control over me?

Quote from Possibility of Being.

Did you hear about self-fulfilling prophecies? The predator is a very smart beast. First, it makes you believe in something and then, it leads you through your life experiences in such a way that you yourself make it 'true' over and over again. You can sabotage your own efforts so to prove to yourself that 'you' are right, and your belief is justified. We like confirmations of what we believe in.

I would like to say that, I wasnt made to believe in anything, atleast not willingly or knowingly. My believe in this programme is based on past and even present experiences in my life. If my experiences were different then I would probably abandon this programme. I think I am going to be crashed by the wave in this case because I dont think I have what it takes to 'qualify' because well, I just dont. I find it much easier to think this way so I dont get dissappointed. I have a natural tendency of being optimistic and the world likes nuthing better than to crash my optimism which isnt really a nice experience tbh. So I have adjusted and learnt to manage my optimish, that is, in away to be pessimistic thus to avoid dissappointment.

What do you mean by 'I CAN SABOTAGE MY OWN EFFORTS SO TO PROVE TO MYSELF THAT I AM RIGHT AND MY BELIEF IS JUSTIFIED.' Sabotage my efforts in what?

Now, the question is, do you like it? Do you want it to become true? If you do, that's okey and there is no need to do anything about that; just take that trait of yours for granted and go on with your life. You are pretty much on a right track. But if, after giving it some thoughts, you realize you do not like it, you were not like that while learning to walk, for example, so maybe that’s not how you have to be, maybe you have a choice - then the Work may begin: exploring, digging, testing, improving, proving otherwise. This way, step by step, with your own effort and with a help from the network, you have chance to get closer to who you really are/can BE.

Do i like my belief? No not really but I find it easier relating to it as compared to its opposite. I dont know how to live life on the other side of the line, where one expects good things to happen to them. Do I want it to become true? No not really but I wont be surprised if it did come true. I would be more surprised even shocked if it didnt..

I do agree that I was not like this while learning to walk, its something that I developed during the years and has been re-enforced by many experiences. I have a choice? well I want to exercise this and make a choice to explore, dig, test, improve and prove this belief otherwise.

Infact I have a confession to make, due to this belief of 'low self-esteem or worth' re-enforced by years of trying and failing, wanting and not getting what I wanted despite what seemed like alot of effort, I decided to play ball with this belief, that is, to not fight it anymore and see what happens - I lived my whole life fighting to overcome this by putting alot of energy and enthusiasm into life only to fail or not get what I was aiming for thus just re-enforcing the uderlying belief. Since I decided to play ball, my life has got better despite what I imagined or thought. I feel much better inside, things are fine externally, like my situation in life is now stable (be it temporarily) despite me having tempted fate in such a huge way and now I seem to have gained some re-newed enthusiasm for life. I am fine with myself. I dont feel like i am in a constant battle with my own self. I dont feel the need to have the world recognize or acknowledge my existance anymore, I am ok with the way I am and I wont bend myself to meet some external criteria anymore - atleast not to the degree that I used to, the degree that left me almost crippled within my own self.... I take everything given to me now as a gift and not something that I am owed or I deserve.... I still dont have anything that I originally wanted, the only difference now is that I am fine with not having them anymore. So why do I still believe this specific programme? Well because it probably is one of the most important things that can happen to a person in 3d and I just dont know if I have what it takes, that is to say, if I was a betting person, I would bet on me being crashed by this wave as that is the more likely thing to happen. Obviously there are some underlying feelings of self-inadequacy and low self esteem which are things I am currently working on trying to resolve... This feelings no longer consume my life with the ferocity they used to but they are not yet dead within me, I can still feel them clawing away deep inside me....

 

[obyvatel]

Infact I have a confession to make, due to this belief of 'low self-esteem or worth' re-enforced by years of trying and failing, wanting and not getting what I wanted despite what seemed like alot of effort, I decided to play ball with this belief, that is, to not fight it anymore and see what happens - I lived my whole life fighting to overcome this by putting alot of energy and enthusiasm into life only to fail or not get what I was aiming for thus just re-enforcing the uderlying belief. Since I decided to play ball, my life has got better despite what I imagined or thought. I feel much better inside, things are fine externally, like my situation in life is now stable (be it temporarily) despite me having tempted fate in such a huge way and now I seem to have gained some re-newed enthusiasm for life. I am fine with myself. I dont feel like i am in a constant battle with my own self. I dont feel the need to have the world recognize or acknowledge my existance anymore, I am ok with the way I am and I wont bend myself to meet some external criteria anymore - atleast not to the degree that I used to, the degree that left me almost crippled within my own self.... I take everything given to me now as a gift and not something that I am owed or I deserve.... I still dont have anything that I originally wanted, the only difference now is that I am fine with not having them anymore. So why do I still believe this specific programme? Well because it probably is one of the most important things that can happen to a person in 3d and I just dont know if I have what it takes, that is to say, if I was a betting person, I would bet on me being crashed by this wave as that is the more likely thing to happen. Obviously there are some underlying feelings of self-inadequacy and low self esteem which are things I am currently working on trying to resolve... This feelings no longer consume my life with the ferocity they used to but they are not yet dead within me, I can still feel them clawing away deep inside me....

Hi Luke,
There may be various reasons behind failing at any particular activity. Just for the sake of discussion let us consider a hypothetical situation where I failed in the subject of math in college despite trying hard. A couple of possible reasons for such a failure may be
1) I am not really interested in math but only took the subject because my parents said so or it was considered cool among my friends. This could be an example of letting external criteria dictate what I choose to do and not really having my heart in the task.
2) I like math but the teacher was real bad and I did not get good training in the subject to do well. Then the failure would be due to lack of subject knowledge and/or lack of adequate resources to reach my goal.

Whatever be the reason of my failure, the fact still stands that I failed in math. This does not make me a failure unless I start believing so. The whole of life is lessons - so as long as one learns something from a situation it is not really a failure - no matter what societal standards say.
If we take to heart the statement that all of life is just lessons then we try to gain knowledge from everything that happens to us in life. With such an attitude, success and failure become less important than understanding the lesson that is before us in the present moment. So irrespective of whether a wave takes me to the top or crushes me under it in the future, I would want to learn and grow in the present circumstances in which I find myself. (BTW, in the context of this forum, the upcoming wave is hypothesized to be something that amplifies whatever that is within us - osit). In a collective sense, the urgency of the work of gaining knowledge can be fueled by this concept of a impending wave since it is likely to affect the multitudes. However, personally, I do not find this urgency very different from the old samurai concept of living in the shadow of death. I do not know when I am going to die (wave or no wave) and this gives me the impetus to work today in the present moment towards my aim of gaining knowledge of the self and the world around me.
You may find the books on narcissism (in the suggested reading list) Elan Golomb's "Trapped In the Mirror" and Pressmans' "The Narcissistic Family" quite helpful with regard to understanding some common issues that affect most of us. Here is a thread which discusses the negative introject from Golomb's book.

 

[luke wilson]

Wow, I never really understood what they meant by life is just lessons until you explained it... success or failure in any particular situation should be viewed as a lesson. Then why does it have such a huge impact on ones emotions. Its like I have failed yet again, and now I feel bad about myself, or I have succeeded and now I feel like i am ontop of the world. Its almost like the emotions in this case divert you from actually learning or thinking objectively about whatever lessons the situation had to offer.

I feel like I am having to face the same scenario but in different forms over and over again but I think MAYBE i am meant to learn some lesson from it inorder to move on from this situation but its hard when one feels engulfed in an emotional hurricane that seems to be out of control. Like for example the last couple of days for me have been horrendous, I feel like I have slowly been creeping back to my old ways and slowly losing the control I was exercising over myself. Old wounds are opening up and one thing is just leading to another leading down a path I have been down before that doesnt really end up anywhere nice. How can one begin to decipher what lessons one is meant to learn or should have learnt???
ARGHHH! I am sooooo annoyed angry and dissapointed with myself, here I was thinking I have actually made some progress but no, it appears I have to start all over again...

Without going much into personal detail, my situation involves, the scenario 1) under your reply obvytel, where you say 'letting external criteria dictate what I choose to do and not really having my heart in the task.' Well see the problem with my life, is that I dont really have my heart in anything except maybe this, doing the work and trying to read and gain knowledge in like the esoteric field, but its not something I can base my life on, its more like a hobby, something I do on the side... So i am doing something, because this is what I am meant to do and only thing I can do to have a stable future, but I dont really have my heart on the task and as a result I failed before but got given a second chance and this time I decided to approach the situation from a different angle and things were going fine for awhile, infact I was surprised as to how much ground I covered and how effortless it almost seemed. That is until recently when I just feel like I am starting to lose control again and I am just hoping to regain it back before I fail again and this time, there wont be another chance to redeem myself!! However this time I want to keep my eyes peeled open inorder to atleast try and see these lessons I am meant to learn so that even if I fail/suceed atleast i'd move on from this recurring scenario/situation and atleast feel like I have gained something but I dont know how to, where does one begin??? That age-old feeling of 'being left behind' has also decided to show its ugly head yet again (this time by observing someone I know gain in there quest/ambition and is on the process of moving on, onto the next level in life and guess what, here I am having started in the same place but no no am being left behind yet again, JUST GREAT). Arghhhh am trying to atleast understand and see what lessons I can learn atleast take advantage of the situation but I cant see anything, not through this smoke of emotions....

Btw, I dont know what to think of this, but last night something completely weird happened, I was busy reading an article by Laura and my housemate came to talk to me about something, but for like atleast 2 sentences, whilst I was replying back to him, my mind and my mouth seemed to have some kind of disconnect where I knew what I wanted to reply but what was coming out of my mouth was completely different. I noticed it after the 1st sentence, tried to regain abit of control but them it happened again before I gained full control and could converse normally... Weird. Am hoping it's not the stress getting to me... Oh and also I was reading the article and I keep reading words that arent actually there... completely weird.. I had to read some sentences acouple of times abit slowly so as to read the words that are actually on the page... Its sooooo weird.. I think its all this stress. Not to mention the dreams, like acouple of years back seems like some kind of switch got turned on and lets just say sleeping hasnt been the same since, its like soooo weird... Seem to be going through phases of dreams with different intensities, started off really intense sooo vivid before they just kept changing but of late they seem to atleast be getting back to normal.. well I dont really know what normal is ( because the other day I just dreamt about some guy saying he was the devil before saying some other stuff that I forgot when I woke up) but yah thats where its at... weird as hell... Of late I have always played the role of the victim in my dreams, been chased, been stabed, been shot at, been ignored, felt all kinds of weird feelings, just great... seems to be mirroring the state of my life... I put this down to the last couple of years being rather stressful. I read somewhere that, thats the minds way of blowing off steam that it gains during normal waking life... for me its weird because especially when I was really stressed out acouple of years ago, my dreams were really intense and I felt like for example if I didnt dream or if they were just boring, I would have easily gone into like depression or something like that. Now that I am not as stressed out, there less intense so to me it shows thats they act to balance out life and make you stable... I have also had this weird recurring dream of me like trying to run/escape from this place, the 1st time I managed to get away, but the other times this person or whoever keeps chasing me and I cant get away... the situation is always the same but the setting is different. Also like, this was another weird one, i lashed out at this person in my dream but it was me but its like it was my spirit that lashed out like it got out of my body and lashed out with quite some intensity and then got back in - I realized it because I looked at my hand and realized it wasnt exactly my bodys' hand as my bodys' hand was still by my body, I was like partially disconnected from my body. Yah alot of this weird dreams. If I had a log of them, I could write some kind of fantasy novel or something like that...

I'd highly appreciate some insight or feedback.

 

[obyvatel]

Its like I have failed yet again, and now I feel bad about myself, or I have succeeded and now I feel like i am ontop of the world. Its almost like the emotions in this case divert you from actually learning or thinking objectively about whatever lessons the situation had to offer.

This is a very common condition that most of us have to struggle with on a daily basis. The books on narcissism and Alice Miller's "Drama Of the Gifted Child" are very useful to understand the possible dynamics behind this emotional roller-coaster that we are perhaps routinely subjected to.
Very briefly, most of us suffer from deep emotional wounds in childhood where the fundamental need of a child to be unconditionally accepted, validated and loved for what he/she is - are not met. Instead of meeting the fundamental needs of the child, the needs of the parental system (including parents, schools) take precedence in the upbringing - either in a covert or overt manner. This results in a very fundamental loss of self which occurs at an early age and this imprint remains largely unrecognized when the child grows up into an adult. One of the possible fallouts of this narcissistic wounding is that the person has an overwhelming need for external validation (seeking approval from others). Also he/she tends to equate success (approval) or failure (rejection) at a particular task with his/her worthiness as a human being. It is through some intensive internal work on oneself mainly along the line of exploring repressed childhood memories/emotions along with theoretical psychological knowledge of this narcissistic wounding phenomenon that one can begin the process of healing. In this forum, EE/POTS breathing and meditation program is the chief tool for emotional cleansing and is complemented with reading and networking of ideas/knowledge and constant self-observation.
fwiw

 

[shellycheval]

Luke,
Don’t be too hard on yourself—the intensity of your quest is inspiring—thank you.
I feel compelled to address some of your concerns to the best of my limited abilities:

Its almost like the emotions in this case divert you from actually learning or thinking objectively about whatever lessons the situation had to offer.

Emotions are both the best energy to fuel the desire to learn and the biggest distracters. In the Forum section titled “The Work” there is a list of “Important Threads for The Work.” One that may be of use to you at this time, even if you do not understand all the terms is http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=7197.0
It is about using negative emotion to your benefit.

I feel like I am having to face the same scenario but in different forms over and over again but I think MAYBE i am meant to learn some lesson from it in order to move on from this situation but its hard when one feels engulfed in an emotional hurricane that seems to be out of control.

I rarely make absolute statements, but I feel safe in saying all of us here on the forum intent on doing The Work experience this situation repeatedly. Yes—we do experience issues over and over hidden in different forms until we “get” the lesson, and part of the lesson is learning to benefit from our negative emotions.

I don’t really have my heart in anything except maybe this, doing the work and trying to read and gain knowledge in like the esoteric field, but its not something I can base my life on, its more like a hobby, something I do on the side...

HA! You think? ;) The amount of questions you ask, the lengthy discussions you appear to be giving them internally and externally, your angst and passion, all point out your being here as more than a “hobby.” Your logic error/contradiction “I don’t really have my heart in anything except maybe this, doing the work” . . . “its more like a hobby, something I do on the side” is also evidence of your quest becoming your raison d’etre your reason for being and your programs keeping you fighting it.

Its like am in search of this place of just peace and calmness but I cant find it and I don’t know if I ever will - at least getting to a point when you know there is always one thing in your life that you can unconditionally rely on such us an unflinching confidence in yourself or some kind of love between you and someone else or a stable personal economic foundation etc.

One of the biggest shocks most of us here encounter is the realization that there is no savior—no other (god or person) who can save us. We are on a journey to ourselves—and although we will encounter many teachers in many forms (people here, our intimate relationships, petty tyrants etc.), we essentially travel alone. We can experience peace and calmness along the way, but they are like beautiful parks we visit for a while and then have to move on, otherwise we will stagnate and loose the path to growth. Poet Ferlinghetti wrote “even in heaven they don’t sing all the time.”
It is not easy to accept that there is no savior and just because we might learn this lesson intellectually, it does not mean that many of us do not continue to struggle against accepting this on an emotional level. It is an uncomfortableness that one becomes accustomed to carrying around inside and can be useful in self-observation and other applications of using negative emotions to advance.

then surely this will only lead a person to asking questions and potentially finding out that maybe there is something false within him. I thought the aim of this programmes is to keep man locked up within himself.

I am only speculating here, but I think that fact that programs do not work all the time on everyone means that some people have a true self (the real “I”) that breaks through and is stronger than the programs, and, on a macro level, I think it shows that the positive, creative force in the universe will prevail.

Since I decided to play ball, my life has got better despite what I imagined or thought. I feel much better inside, things are fine externally, like my situation in life is now stable (be it temporarily) despite me having tempted fate in such a huge way and now I seem to have gained some re-newed enthusiasm for life. I am fine with myself. I dont feel like i am in a constant battle with my own self. I dont feel the need to have the world recognize or acknowledge my existance anymore, I am ok with the way I am and I wont bend myself to meet some external criteria anymore - atleast not to the degree that I used to, the degree that left me almost crippled within my own self.... I take everything given to me now as a gift and not something that I am owed or I deserve....
I still dont have anything that I originally wanted, the only difference now is that I am fine with not having them anymore.

It appears you have learned an important lesson about how the push/pull attract/repel forces can manifest in our lives, and one way to use negative emotion to your advantage, and because of this you were able visit one of the “parks” so to speak, that I was talking about--visit for a little while anyway.

So why do I still believe this specific programme? Well because it probably is one of the most important things that can happen to a person in 3d and I just dont know if I have what it takes, that is to say, if I was a betting person, I would bet on me being crashed by this wave as that is the more likely thing to happen. Obviously there are some underlying feelings of self-inadequacy and low self esteem which are things I am currently working on trying to resolve... This feelings no longer consume my life with the ferocity they used to but they are not yet dead within me, I can still feel them clawing away deep inside me....

One message that many enlightened masters all say repeatedly in some form is to “be here now,” keep your conscious attention and intentions on the present, see objective reality to the best of your ability and deal with what is. The future will sort itself out, and if we are doing The Work on ourselves in the present then when the Wave hits in the future we will be where we need to be to meet it—all is lessons.

Thank you for the opportunity to mull these thoughts over myself. Lately I have been hiding in a park called “my busy life in the material world (3D)” and it is time to follow my own advice and kick my butt back out there back on the Path with more reading, meditation, EE breathing, and attend to my diet. Good Luck Luke,
shellycheval

 

[luke wilson]

Thanks for the replies. Quite alot of helpful insight.

Obyvatel, you have got me thinking about my childhood and about narcissistic wounding from when you were young. Its quite amazing how much you cant actually remember about your own childhood. I mean I have moved so much during my life that the past is in such dissaray. I rarely look back, my natural tendency is looking forwards. I have read here about people who say some of the reasons why they are how they are now is because of what there experiences were when they were young and I suppose thats why the pyschology books are on the recommended reading list.

On a personal level, my childhood as far as I can remember was ok, my parents never really put pressure on me to be something I was not but they were strict when I got out of line like for eg, i had to watch my manners and stuff but that was about it. In a way my dad always told me I got waaay to much protection, he was always like 'luke you dont know how much protection you get.' It was from my mum, my mum let me be myself but my dad in a way now that I come to think of it was right... One had to understand the world and what one wanted out of the world and push themselves to get that which they wanted, you had to be a person that 'did', not a person that spent most of his time just engaged in there own fantasies and thinking the world was a bed of roses and everything will just come to you - I never rebelled because I didnt feel any need to rebel, my cousins and friends were busy rebelling, breaking rules, going to parties, drinking, swearing, exploring there sexualty and such, I just spent my childhood being a goody-two shoes. Now I understand that even though he didnt say it explicitly, my dad wanted me to rebel, he wanted me to break the rules, to go out there and experience the world. I now regret not doing so as I feel like I missed out and now I am kind of like one step behind my peers... Like everyone else has had so much that they have experienced whilst I really havent experienced anything...

In my case my parents wanted me to go to school, get A's in pretty much everything, go to university, do a hard degree and ace it. Get a good job, magically stumble into love one day and marry this special person, have a family and live happily ever after. You can imagine living ones life trying to meet this criterias... Wow. Obviously when I didnt meet it to the standard that was expected, my mum was ok about it but I could clearly see the dissappointment in my dads eyes even if he tried not to show it. You know in those movies when you hear some parent tell the kid they are proud of them. Well my dad rarely ever tells me that, when he does it doesnt really feel like he means it. Infact once I heard him talking to my sister when he was basically warning my sister about not becoming like me, because at this point I was basically failing and wasnt even trying hard enough to undo this failures from his point of view...

I do have to say that I love both my parents and I understand that my dad and mum only want the best for me so I do not blame any of them for how I am right now. The only thing that I can rely on in my life, is my home, i.e. my parents home, it doesnt matter how much I fail, how much I dissappoint, yes I might get a hard time from my dad or mum about it, but they will always let me back in and try and offer help and advise to the best of there ability. If I do suceed then they will be there to share in my success, as my mum says family is the only true thing one can rely on in this world. That is all one can ask for.

So I dont basically know how to approach this whole 'how was your childhood' thing. My feelings of self-inadequacy and low self worth I suppose come from this chasing to meet this criteria and failing. Now I am currently on the 'Ace my degree, get a good job and fall madly in love' stage of the master plan. Needless to say its all falling apart.... The future looks bright. Bring on the wave is what I say!

If I am to be bluntly honest, I did not ace all my highschool subjects, I am not going to ace my degree, I will not walk into a dream job (I dont infact have a dream job in mind - when my mum hears this, she is going to flip) and I dont even know how to talk to girls so I dont think i'll be in some kind of fairytale romantic relationship with any girl anytime soon.... Now that I have this written down and I can actually see it, yes yes I can see my feelings of being inadequate are justified to the extreme, someone could say, 'Luke you fail in the art of living' but obviously if I say that you guys will think I am depressed or something but I am not, really I am not.... It amazes me how I am not but to be honest I would say I havent ever been depressed, when I was about 17/18 I felt really bad, maybe even depressed but I got over it somehow and now I am ok.. There is only one thing that gets me nowadays, that is, am not really bothered about a dream job or acing any degrees or anything like that, I am just bracing myself for a life of being alone!!! Man, seriously if this wave thing doesnt happen I am going to be royally dissappointed - that is a STS thought process but I am just tired of constantly having to sacrifice my own self.

Before I finish, I have to say that one thing that has so far amazed me about my life, is that by now, I thought i'd pretty much have totally failed and confirmed all my parents worst fears and my life would pretty much be dust. And i'd have to rebuild from a new with new expectations. However, even though I do fail, I dont actually fail.. its amazing really. No matter how hard I try and believe me, I have tried rather hard and the last time was very conscious so to say - I was determined to de-rail this train, but I am always still on this path... Its quite astonishing really. Sometimes I think that I must have done something in a previous life and this is my hell, a sort of punishment or something. A punishment that is inescaple. Ha! Like now, I am busy acing my degree when I was busy failing last year... what has happened, I thought I was on my way out... Infact if like 2 people didnt walk into my life this year, I dont know what would have happened - they dont even know what effect they have had on me. Its just like I have been baited back in, into that which I wanted to escape... But in all honesty is one thing playing a game of dare with fate, its another actually going against everything you shouldnt. Yah i'll stick around this road for as long as I can, see where this boat goes... I got a mini-break where things were fine, infact so fine I was surprised, to bad I dont think its going to last. Great!

I should probably buy and read every single one of those psychology books but I wont. People see me reading those books and omg, i'll have a whole load of explaining to do... As I said, this is something I do on the side.. Not in full public view!!! The public here being people in my everyday life.

I am sorry if this makes me sound like some kind of broken up human being... I am also sorry for the length... I feel better having written all this down... It's like a birds eye view.

 

[Buddy]

Hi luke wilson.

I noticed the metaphors and adjectives you used to describe your perceptions of your emotions and emotional states. Based on your stated concerns about self-worth and self-control, I highly recommend the EE meditation program - in it's entirety. At least the warrior's breath, pipe breath, belly breathing and POTS.

When I experienced a profound sense of calm and relaxation after the first 2 to 3 weeks of practice, I noticed I could easily carry this memory of inner peace and stillness into daily life for longer and longer periods of time. If you will practice this, your sense of self-worth will likely improve as you experience a bit more control over your emotions through reduction in physical tension and stress. If so, then it might allow you to consider even more possibilities from other aspects of the Work.

I would also recommend a dream journal to write down those dreams you talk about and with as much detail as possible. Also, since writing your posts makes you feel better, I recommend that, in addition to networking, you keep a daily journal to have a running record of all these thoughts about your experiences so that you can look back on them later and possibly see patterns of thinking and behavior that are currently unclear for you.

These simple things will help you now and later and will give you time to learn more about other stuff like programs, how to recognize them, and some of the basic practices of the Work.

You talk about emotional volatility, you said something about approaching esoteric Work like a hobby and you mentioned that you "won't" buy certain books. To me, that's like saying you want to 'play' with dynamite; or, perhaps, go 'skipping' through a minefield. I wouldn't recommend that stance. Seems like a dangerous way of looking at things. :)

 

[obyvatel]

Hi Luke,
Seems like most of your sense of inadequacy and low self esteem is due to not meeting the standards set by your parents. Your parents want what they consider the best for you. This situation is quite common. As an adult however, everyone has the right to choose what is best for them. If someone decides to make this choice for oneself and take the first step towards true emotional independence, then it is important that such a choice is not based on reactionary rebelliousness but on an objective view about oneself. Reactionary rebelliousness can be the in-your-face variety or it could be more passive and subtle. It could be a possibility that you are passively rebelling against the standards set by your parents since your heart is not in the activities that you are faced with at present. You can try to determine whether this indeed is the underlying dynamics of your situation or not.
A different option is to make a choice for one's life that is based on a more objective view of oneself and the world. You have written that
[quote author=Luke Wilson]
I dont really have my heart in anything except maybe this, doing the work and trying to read and gain knowledge in like the esoteric field, but its not something I can base my life on, its more like a hobby, something I do on the side...
[/quote]
The beauty of the 4th Way Work is that it meshes in very well with whatever one does in "regular" life. As you read more about 4th Way and material in this forum, you will see that life events are used as the fuel to drive this Work which starts with gaining self-knowledge. So if you get deep into this, you will see that it ceases to be a hobby or something that one does on the side - it is inextricably linked with life. Externally one could be a student, artist, scientist, doctor, engineer,businessman, salesman, bartender, truck driver, teacher - virtually anything and yet could be doing the Work internally.
Since you had asked what doing the "Work" really means in nuts and bolt terms, let me attempt an answer knowing whatever I write is going to fall well short of the mark. Some theoretical knowledge is needed in terms of reading recommended books and related forum material. A network is needed to share and learn. And one needs to constantly observe the self in the midst of daily activities and record the observations. It takes time,effort and patience. Eventually, as a sufficiently detailed picture of oneself starts to emerge from these efforts of self-observation, one starts to analyze the picture. Through analysis, one starts recognizing parts within oneself which are useful and those which are not. Then starts the long process of struggling against those parts of oneself that are regarded as components of the false personality .
Discipline is a necessary component to begin and stick with self-observation. It is said that to do the Work, one has to start from the level of a "good householder". Since you are in the process of working towards a degree which is giving you some trouble, you could start with exercising those "discipline muscles" in the context of finishing the degree. The degree most likely is going to have some practical advantages in real life - it may help you get started on the path towards personal autonomy. Just a suggestion.
Wishing that the wave would come and solve life's problems is tempting but only an illusion. You are not alone in this either - I have wished for armageddon too when my problems seemed overwhelming but it is just wishful thinking that promotes sleep . We are all here to learn some lessons and escapism is not going to help in the learning process.
As already suggested, EE breathing /POTS meditation is an invaluable tool to help with stress and much more. Wish you the best.

 

[Acaja]

I have read here about people who say some of the reasons why they are how they are now is because of what there experiences were when they were young and I suppose thats why the pyschology books are on the recommended reading list.

On a personal level, my childhood as far as I can remember was ok, my parents never really put pressure on me to be something I was not but they were strict when I got out of line like for eg, i had to watch my manners and stuff but that was about it. In a way my dad always told me I got waaay to much protection, he was always like 'luke you dont know how much protection you get.' It was from my mum, my mum let me be myself but my dad in a way now that I come to think of it was right... One had to understand the world and what one wanted out of the world and push themselves to get that which they wanted, you had to be a person that 'did', not a person that spent most of his time just engaged in there own fantasies and thinking the world was a bed of roses and everything will just come to you - I never rebelled because I didnt feel any need to rebel, my cousins and friends were busy rebelling, breaking rules, going to parties, drinking, swearing, exploring there sexualty and such, I just spent my childhood being a goody-two shoes. Now I understand that even though he didnt say it explicitly, my dad wanted me to rebel, he wanted me to break the rules, to go out there and experience the world. I now regret not doing so as I feel like I missed out and now I am kind of like one step behind my peers... Like everyone else has had so much that they have experienced whilst I really havent experienced anything...

I think something is missing here. If people say they are how they are now because of their childhood issues, maybe that's because they haven't resolved these issues YET. See, they feel they make them how they are because somehow, they're still carrying these unsolved problems, holding them into their arms and shouting " see? here are all my issues, you see now why my life's a nightmare?" If you think your childhood excuzes all you've done in your life, well then we're all slaves, there's nothing we can do.
Taking our problems as an excuze to explain our behaviours is, in my opinion, a foundamental mistake, a foundamental mistake we are all supposed to commit. But if life it just about lessons, we have to learn from our mistakes.

So, first step : you say your childhood was ok. Are you sure??????? Pardon me if i'm wrong, but I find this statement impossible, since it would mean that you would have actually learnt all your lessons. We've all had issues when we were young, they stressed us when we were babies, when we were in our mom's belly, and admitting anterior lives exist, i can imagine there's even more stress in there. What I mean is that your issues are yours to discover (books, meditation, hypnose.. your call !)

Second step : Now you've realised your have past issues (we all do !), but you've not accepted them yet. How can you be making progress yet? I know this sounds rather stupid or simple, but if one has been acting stupid all his life ( not saying YOU have, just making a point here) one has to first see his stupidity, then accept it totally, and then, only then, say to himself " ok now let's see what I can do about it",

Cause maybe, he's not supid anymore ;)