Some tips for getting out of sleep paralysis and the spontaneous OOBE

Buddy

The Living Force
astrozombie said:
So if OOBE are truly positive, why is it hurtful to be told otherwise?

The rotten side of self-importance? I'm not sure, but maybe there is an answer in the difference between genuine knowledge and just belief? What I mean is that sometimes it seems that when we come to deeply believe in something, there is also created a reflection of doubt and fear of exactly equal magnitude. We know this doubt and fear is there but we give it no attention - maybe we even block it out of awareness.

Maybe our attachment to some belief can prevent us from SEEing that we are trapped in the gap that forms when a bias like this is created. Maybe this 'place' prevents real movement such that it might explain why an average person can't "DO" anything in Fourth Way terms. He's "stuck" and doesn't realize it?

What do you think about this idea or its possibility?
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
zombie (what is UP with that name?), I used to have spontaneous OOBEs rather frequently as a result of my meditation practice. I even played around with them. One night, I was PUSHED out of my body and was quite aware of the presence of an unseen critter who did it. I was pushed from the small of the back and the next day there was a big red patch there almost like I had been scalded. Anyway, the next one was a trick where I was lured out and got out of bed to check on a sound I heard in the house. It was only when I PASSED THROUGH the bead curtain hanging on the door to the living room that I realized that I'd been tricked. I was so mad that I snapped back in like a rubber band. Gave me vertigo.

But then I had a rather distressing event with a different taste and had a chat with the Cs about it and was warned. I stopped meditating and started sleeping with the radio playing low so I could orient myself. It sounds silly, but I also put yellow bug lights in all my porch lights around the house and left them burning all night.

And that's just a small selection of some of the truly strange things I've experienced that I'm really glad I don't have to deal with anymore. I tell people that if that table the spirit board is on ever lifted off the floor, I'm outta there!
 

Meg

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Astrozombie said:
I also must consider the way I was "directed" to this forum. While meditating, I was told that I was onto something but there was a place to find more accurate data.

Hi Astrozombie,
Via the search function, you will find quite a few threads that discuss OOBEs and similar states. Maybe you were "directed" here to divest yourself of some of the ideas you have about OOBEs?
 
Buddy, I was gonna give your idea a quick reply but something told me it warranted more thought.

Ouch!

Let me describe what living in the "gap" feels like.

I was a Catholic for two-thirds of my life including and most importantly, my childhood. The Jesuit sec within the church have a saying (best data suggests it originated from them), "Give us the first seven years of your child's life and we will own them".

It's true. Not at face value, but it's true.

Obviously people come and go for various reasons and they certainly don't own any patents on the figurative truth but they aren't lying in the least.

The seeds planted during our childhood always mature. People change radically from the children they once were and those seeds can grow into beautiful roses for some while growing in to the Wandering Jews (it's a real, pesky plant that people always make the mistake of choosing) that drain our life's water, for others.

I said that I was happier now and I meant that though I was never particularly miserable. I was just never satisfied.

Therein, lies the problem. If they were truly giving me the keys to the "Kingdom of Heaven" and I turned them down like a selfish and unsatisfied brat, then I just might get what they say I have coming.

So, I know the church is saturated to the bone with lies but what are they specifically is the crux. I say know and not believe because the church is ran by people and people lie. Did they lie about, of all things.........Jesus himself?!?

He's such a beautiful person and his never ending capacity to always forgive calls me like a siren in the sea. I'm always trying to rationalize and incorporate him into my new beliefs in some way, some manner, so that I can have a safety clause, a spiritual loop hole if you will.

One that will allow me to live my life as I see fit and so long as I am a good person, I can exploit that clause and get into "heaven" in the event that I am wrong.

Pathetic, I know but there it is.

Too much introspect? I don't think so. Not when the name of the game is deception and the loser forfeits their soul.
 
A

Archaea

Guest
I would like to make a few posts here (this thread) on some of my most memorable experiences. The reason being is that right now, I'm not seeing them as negative and that may never happen. But I am more than capable of bearing the truth and taking criticism. I am not a glutton for punishment so it is better to take the swats now while their is time to learn.

Hello astrozombie,

I was interested in finding a way to ask you about some of your experiences, as I'd like to try and understand some of the lessons you learned from your OOBE's better. It seems to me that if they are similar in content or 'frequency' to what the C's say then they should 'resonate' with the people on this forum and maybe we could learn something, if it doesn't resonate then maybe we could figure out why and you could learn something.

Of course, what I just wrote might be an example of black and white thinking... who knows what people are going to learn, if nothing else, your experiences might be interesting stories. ;)
 

Sol Logos

Dagobah Resident
astrozombie said:
Buddy, I was gonna give your idea a quick reply but something told me it warranted more thought.

Ouch!

Let me describe what living in the "gap" feels like.

I was a Catholic for two-thirds of my life including and most importantly, my childhood. The Jesuit sec within the church have a saying (best data suggests it originated from them), "Give us the first seven years of your child's life and we will own them".

It's true. Not at face value, but it's true.

Obviously people come and go for various reasons and they certainly don't own any patents on the figurative truth but they aren't lying in the least.

The seeds planted during our childhood always mature. People change radically from the children they once were and those seeds can grow into beautiful roses for some while growing in to the Wandering Jews (it's a real, pesky plant that people always make the mistake of choosing) that drain our life's water, for others.

I said that I was happier now and I meant that though I was never particularly miserable. I was just never satisfied.

Therein, lies the problem. If they were truly giving me the keys to the "Kingdom of Heaven" and I turned them down like a selfish and unsatisfied brat, then I just might get what they say I have coming.

So, I know the church is saturated to the bone with lies but what are they specifically is the crux. I say know and not believe because the church is ran by people and people lie. Did they lie about, of all things.........Jesus himself?!?

He's such a beautiful person and his never ending capacity to always forgive calls me like a siren in the sea. I'm always trying to rationalize and incorporate him into my new beliefs in some way, some manner, so that I can have a safety clause, a spiritual loop hole if you will.

One that will allow me to live my life as I see fit and so long as I am a good person, I can exploit that clause and get into "heaven" in the event that I am wrong.

Pathetic, I know but there it is.

Too much introspect? I don't think so. Not when the name of the game is deception and the loser forfeits their soul.

It's not so much introspect, its more that its not very clear what you're getting at for me. It appears like you're skirting around being real, that often happens when we have some ideal view of ourselves we want to hang on to - which is basically identification. It could be for you being "spiritual", so having others recognise you for that, helps cover the what's left when that facade is gone. That's probably what Buddy was pointing you to. For instance, what happens say when no one recognises or is much impressed by your OOBE experiences, what's left in you? How do you feel in that place?

I used to have lots of OOBEs, had a lot of experiences that felt really good, was given insights too but at the end of the day none of it helped me move past my inner issues. I used to project this air of being "above" real life problems, I had profound experiences I'd surmise, ones that set me apart, made me feel deserving of special treatment. I was kidding myself, I was afraid to see myself square in the face becuase my mask, I thought was a better version than the real me with all my fears and insecurities etc, so I'd hardly get a glimpse of what was under my preferred identity.
 
For instance, what happens say when no one recognises or is much impressed by your OOBE experiences, what's left in you?

The OOBE is not what is important. What I gained or lost from them is. There are tons of places where I can go and have been, where I can get the admiration you are suggesting that I seek.

My initial response was defensive I admitted to that but when a "part" is "attacked" the "whole" responds. In this case that was a good thing because it is leading to this discussion.

Back to Buddy's question though. I viewed Catholicism and Christianity in general and the path they offer in comparison to where I am at now.

I feel I described the gap for me accurately within his analogy.

Your concerns need to be addressed further but I am time pressed right now. Thanks again.

Sincerely.
 
Hi again,

Given that this medium has its limits of communication (we evolved to use body language as a means of communication as well) I can understand why you think I am not being real. Emoticons play a great role in that respect but they can be misused easily.

I am a new member here and am one whom wants to learn and contribute. I have no history with anyone here and it will take time to get to know me as it will for me to know you all.

I feel that I revealed quite a bit about myself.

I really do like Buddy's analogy of the gap and in theme with that, there are many gaps in a person's life and all takes time to share and to even become self aware of for that matter. :)
 

Buddy

The Living Force
astrozombie said:
Buddy, I was gonna give your idea a quick reply but something told me it warranted more thought.

Ouch!

Let me describe what living in the "gap" feels like.

I was a Catholic for two-thirds of my life including and most importantly, my childhood. The Jesuit sec within the church have a saying (best data suggests it originated from them), "Give us the first seven years of your child's life and we will own them".

It's true. Not at face value, but it's true.

Obviously people come and go for various reasons and they certainly don't own any patents on the figurative truth but they aren't lying in the least.

The seeds planted during our childhood always mature. People change radically from the children they once were and those seeds can grow into beautiful roses for some while growing in to the Wandering Jews (it's a real, pesky plant that people always make the mistake of choosing) that drain our life's water, for others.

As far as I can tell, I understand exactly what you're saying.

astrozombie said:
I said that I was happier now and I meant that though I was never particularly miserable. I was just never satisfied.

Therein, lies the problem. If they were truly giving me the keys to the "Kingdom of Heaven" and I turned them down like a selfish and unsatisfied brat, then I just might get what they say I have coming.

So, I know the church is saturated to the bone with lies but what are they specifically is the crux.

It depends, but a significant part of that question relates to the "I" part of you that's asking. If "apparent you" doesn't know what the lies are, then can "apparent you" really say "I know the church is saturated to the bone with lies?" One reason for the use of "apparent you" may be due to the idea that we have two minds - one is our birthright and one is a "foreign installation" in every sense of that phrase - to which that message related to "Give us the first seven years of your child's life and we will own them" acts like a hint.

astrozombie said:
Did they lie about, of all things.........Jesus himself?!?

He's such a beautiful person and his never ending capacity to always forgive calls me like a siren in the sea.

The way I see it, that particular forgiveness teaching can be practiced to some degree by anyone who is familiar with "Karma dumping", but not the kind of "Karma dumping" that you find when you google the phrase.

What I'm talking about are those people like Jesus, Buddha, etc. who take on the task of absorbing people's emotional garbage, nastiness, betrayals, assaults, confessions and so forth with out reacting against the 'villians'. Basically, the "Jesus" person holds it all inside himself and takes it all to the grave or whatever. The advantage to the 'dumper' is that they are able to, at least temporarily, rid themselves of some rigidity which may grant them just enough freedom to experience a Metanoia, or major change in mind and heart. The advantage for the "receiver" of the dump is just a release from any further obligation to a person who dumps on them and rejects them. From this perspective, it's obvious to me that whoever told you that is acting as if he is the "Jesus" person. Anyway, it's those people who won't "dump and reject" that require an ongoing involvement, because as long as they are asking, searching, trying to understand, then these kinds of teachers seem to respond like they have an STO-like obligation to help.

At least, this is a description of the concept as I absorbed it from prior researches.

astrozombie said:
I'm always trying to rationalize and incorporate him into my new beliefs in some way, some manner, so that I can have a safety clause, a spiritual loop hole if you will.

I understand the loophole. As for myself, I'm fascinated by the message behind the explanation of Pascal's wager. I think William James does a fine, comprehensive treatment of the subject in his essay "Will to Believe." I think he makes good case. Are you familiar? If not, you can read it from here: _http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/26659

And I'm pleased to say that James' Varieties of Religious Experience comes recommended here # 16, Esotericism and Parapsychology


astrozombie said:
Pathetic, I know but there it is.

Not pathetic at all, though it may involve emotion (the pathos).

astrozombie said:
Too much introspect? I don't think so. Not when the name of the game is deception and the loser forfeits their soul.

I understand the conviction. I certainly don't have a black and white answer. Your personal Aim for your involvment in our way of Working is mighty important.

astrozombie said:
I really do like Buddy's analogy of the gap and in theme with that, there are many gaps in a person's life...

Probably so. I can see a point of view where the essence of meaning in your topic title applies to a very large portion of everyday life - at least for some people.
 

Muxel

Dagobah Resident
astrozombie,

I feel like I have to stop you there (even though what you wrote was interesting) because I think that in Buddy's "gap" analogy, "belief" referred to your idea that your OOBE were positive. And not a religious "belief" like Catholicism. (Did I get that right?)

So you were probably going off on a tangent, which alkhemst picked up as, in his words, skirting around being real.

You don't have to chuck all your past OOBE's out of the window. They happened and they're yours. But do try to integrate the point of view people here have regarding OOBE with yours. :wizard: Take your time, Rome wasn't built in a day!

Muxel
 

Buddy

The Living Force
Muxel said:
astrozombie,

I feel like I have to stop you there (even though what you wrote was interesting) because I think that in Buddy's "gap" analogy, "belief" referred to your idea that your OOBE were positive. And not a religious "belief" like Catholicism. (Did I get that right?)

Yep, as I see it, I probably should have focused in exclusively on what you and alkhemst picked up on, but since I saw a tangle of interrelationships related to the topic, I may have proceeded to address too much at one time. Perhaps it would be better to give astrozombie a chance to catch up on some foundation reading and I'll just stick to a certain point for now.

BTW, I also agree with all input to this thread so far.
 

Muxel

Dagobah Resident
Buddy said:
Yep, as I see it, I probably should have focused in exclusively on what you and alkhemst picked up on, but since I saw a tangle of interrelationships related to the topic, I may have proceeded to address too much at one time.
Not that I'm complaining :evil: Interesting stuff...
 

Buddy

The Living Force
Muxel said:
Buddy said:
Yep, as I see it, I probably should have focused in exclusively on what you and alkhemst picked up on, but since I saw a tangle of interrelationships related to the topic, I may have proceeded to address too much at one time.
Not that I'm complaining :evil: Interesting stuff...

Yes, indeedy.
 

Sol Logos

Dagobah Resident
astrozombie said:
For instance, what happens say when no one recognises or is much impressed by your OOBE experiences, what's left in you?

The OOBE is not what is important. What I gained or lost from them is. There are tons of places where I can go and have been, where I can get the admiration you are suggesting that I seek.

My initial response was defensive I admitted to that but when a "part" is "attacked" the "whole" responds. In this case that was a good thing because it is leading to this discussion.

The funny thing I've noticed in myself is that seeking admiration where its easy to get isn't as good as getting it where its not. Of course that's a silly proposition, I know that intellectually but its a program I've noticed in myself, of many many others. Hence, as I said earlier I might be projecting due to similarities in your story with me. However at the end of the day you've said you're here to learn, and you have a few propositions already as to where your programs might be. Given the nature of programs being self protective, we won't see them immediately, in fact we don't want to see them becuase when they are disabled and / or we do something to stop them running, we are exposed with our real nature, one we don't like too see in ourselves.

So given that, I'd see a person that really wants to learn approach a proposition in a scientific way. For example, I have been told about the possibility of the existence of A, I might have my own personal opinions about A, but I have some evidence that my opinions could be bias, so I'd want to go through a scientific like process of investigation and experimentation to get closer to an objective truth about it. We could go through the same process with ourselves when something presents itself to us, here or outside the forum. To dismiss what could be a lesson, without really investigating it, points to an unwillingness in ourselves to actually want to be a student if you know what I mean. And just to be sure, I know from personal experience how unwilling I am to be a student.

Overall though, please take what you feel might apply and like Buddy just mentioned, I apologise as well if I've come on too heavy. I'd sincerely like to get to know you more and I hope I've not just made you want to retreat.
 
Believe me when I say that all is great with me in so far as what has been discussed. No apologies needed as you have all been most accurate, scarily accurate.

This thread actually has made me feel more welcomed then all the specific welcomes in my intro post combined. :) :D :)
 
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