'Survivors' by Terry Nation British TV series 1975-19

[anart]

http://www.sott.net/article/253056-Young-brothers-swept-to-death-by-Sandy-denied-refuge-minutes-earlier

I think this article gives a really good idea of what people will be facing when it all breaks down - mindless pathology.

 

[Jacques]

For the people of today, who live more in a virtual world than the real one, it will be even harder to navigate and survive such an environment I think.

Not only that but I think there are more psychopaths today than during the 70.

 

[Windmill knight]

http://www.sott.net/article/253056-Young-brothers-swept-to-death-by-Sandy-denied-refuge-minutes-earlier

I think this article gives a really good idea of what people will be facing when it all breaks down - mindless pathology.

That's horrible! :(

 

[Alana]

For the people of today, who live more in a virtual world than the real one, it will be even harder to navigate and survive such an environment I think.

Not only that but I think there are more psychopaths today than during the 70.

...and psychopathic behaviors more accepted as normal by most

http://www.sott.net/article/253056-Young-brothers-swept-to-death-by-Sandy-denied-refuge-minutes-earlier

I think this article gives a really good idea of what people will be facing when it all breaks down - mindless pathology.

 

[Voyageur]

http://www.sott.net/article/253056-Young-brothers-swept-to-death-by-Sandy-denied-refuge-minutes-earlier

I think this article gives a really good idea of what people will be facing when it all breaks down - mindless pathology.

That's horrible! :(

Comment: A man's refusal to help a woman and her two young sons directly results in the death of the children and all he can do is blame the mother. This is everyday pathological behavior in action. This is the type of pathology that repulses normal human beings and is normalized by far too many people as the status quo.

Want to say that's unbelievable what he did, yet it is so and happens far too often.

Ghastly man. :( :(

 

[Breton]

I just looked at some of the episodes, (70's version) and I think they did a quite a good job.

I think this series has an effect on me of being like another "alarm clock", as Gurdjieff talked about!

It strongly reminded me of the reality of the mechanical and ponerized people we currently are in this society, and what kind of scenarios we can look forward to in the future, when civilization crumbles and there is a large die-off.

While driving around today I could not help imagining most of the people I saw, dead, with just a handful of people from that mass of people trying to survive without any skills or knowledge needed for it. Somehow it really had an effect on me, even though the ideas presented in it are not new to me.

 

[Chu]

While driving around today I could not help imagining most of the people I saw, dead, with just a handful of people from that mass of people trying to survive without any skills or knowledge needed for it. Somehow it really had an effect on me, even though the ideas presented in it are not new to me.

Yeah... and the show doesn't even depict things in a completely realistic way. Like, what do you do with thousands of bodies scattered all around? Even before "rebuilding civilization", there are lots of things that must be dealt with in a practical way. Every time Laura shares something from her new book, it gives a lot of food for thought. There are things we can foresee or imagine intellectually, and all reminders help. But to actually live through a time of plague, oh Boy! I guess we'll have to wait, be prepared and do our best for now, and see.

 

[Chu]

Yeah... and the show doesn't even depict things in a completely realistic way. Like, what do you do with thousands of bodies scattered all around? Even before "rebuilding civilization", there are lots of things that must be dealt with in a practical way.

Speaking of which, I found some interesting comments about incense:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botafumeiro

One tradition has it that the use of a swinging censer in the Santiago de Compostela Cathedral began in the 11th century.[14] Arriving pilgrims were tired and unwashed. It was also believed that incense smoke had a prophylactic effect in the time of plagues and epidemics.

Same here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censer

One of the explanations for the great size of the Botafumeiro is that in the early days it was used to freshen the air in the cathedral after being visited by droves of travel-weary pilgrims. It was also once believed that the incense smoke guarded against contracting the many diseases that plagued the populace in past centuries.

And:http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002164

Incense, of course, could not make the prayers of false worshipers acceptable to God. (Pr 28:9; Mr 12:40) On the other hand, the prayers of a righteous one are effectual. (Jas 5:16) So, too, when a plague from God broke out, Aaron quickly “put the incense on and began making atonement for the people.”—Nu 16:46-48.

And: _http://www.anandaapothecary.com/articles/essential-oil-esoteric.html

Even as recently as the Middle Ages in Europe, fragrant herbs were known to possess special healing properties by virtue of their fragrances, and were burned in the streets to counteract the odor and ill effects of the poor hygiene of the times. During the time of the Great Plague this method was also used to anticepticise the air.

Maybe they were just using incense to counteract the odor, indeed. Not a happy thought, but it is something to consider. These people in the show just walk along, no problem, everything is the same as usual except that there is nobody around.

 

[Hesper]

I just looked at some of the episodes, (70's version) and I think they did a quite a good job.

I think this series has an effect on me of being like another "alarm clock", as Gurdjieff talked about!

It strongly reminded me of the reality of the mechanical and ponerized people we currently are in this society, and what kind of scenarios we can look forward to in the future, when civilization crumbles and there is a large die-off.

While driving around today I could not help imagining most of the people I saw, dead, with just a handful of people from that mass of people trying to survive without any skills or knowledge needed for it. Somehow it really had an effect on me, even though the ideas presented in it are not new to me.

I know exactly what you mean, Breton. An unconscious part of me has been clinging to the hope that people wouldn't have to suffer, or perhaps that I wouldn't have to suffer (both directly and indirectly through seeing it all).

It was easy to keep this whole scenario in the realm of abstraction and indulge in a little denial. It's crazy that I could be in denial while preparing for the very thing I was denying! That's just the machine at work, I suppose. But after all life is still going on, people are getting married, work has to be done, and it takes a lot of Work to be able to do all of this while consciously accepting the futility of it all, and trying to develop our own selves/paths. Even if it takes 500 lives we begin now, right?

So still a part of me rejoices to see the Truth, no matter how horrifying. fwiw

Yeah... and the show doesn't even depict things in a completely realistic way. Like, what do you do with thousands of bodies scattered all around? Even before "rebuilding civilization", there are lots of things that must be dealt with in a practical way. Every time Laura shares something from her new book, it gives a lot of food for thought. There are things we can foresee or imagine intellectually, and all reminders help. But to actually live through a time of plague, oh Boy! I guess we'll have to wait, be prepared and do our best for now, and see.

Great point! This reminds me of something I'd read in a book recently, called "Daily Life During the Black Death," by Joseph Patrick Byrne:

DAILY LIFE AMID DAILY DEATH
The very term “daily life” implies some level of normalcy, of routine, consistency, typicality, stability. But in plague time, this “daily life” was
suspended for virtually everyone. For some it meant abandoning everything and fleeing to a safe place, for others shutting themselves up in
their own homes to wait the epidemic out. Special diets and medicines that promised good health replaced regular fare at the table, and travel
restrictions—formal and informal, official and self-imposed—severely limited communication and even simple shopping. In cities, schools let
out, churches closed, shops were abandoned, neighbors moved, construction halted, and the streets were emptied of crowds and theaters of paying audiences. It was like some long, ghastly holiday. Daily life, such as it had become, was balanced by daily death. Acquaintances
disappeared and dreadful signs appeared on front doors, warning visitors away. The shouts of street vendors hawking their wares were
replaced by the coarse calls of “Bring out the dead!”

Two-wheeled tumbrels piled high with corpses and the dying creaked along the streets in the place of carts brimming with fresh groceries and other merchandise. Fires burned not to cook food or warm bodies, but to incinerate victims’ belongings, punish criminals, or fumigate the supposedly “poisonous” atmosphere. In the face of pestilence people’s faith in doctors and Catholic priests waned, and for many it shifted to self-help medical books and Protestantism. Yet despite the reign of “King Death” life did go on, as people altered their habits, assumptions, concerns, and routines to adapt to the extraordinary times. Despite their transformation by corpses, searchers, corpse-bearers, fumigators, plague-doctors, charlatans, gravediggers, and other denizens of plague time, churches, houses, streets and roads, monasteries, city halls,
and other scenes of “daily life” retained some level of vitality.
.

Is that the "normalcy bias" at work, with people doing their best to keep their routines? Of course this leaves out the other dramatic changes that were going on, and that are probably in store for us as well. Like you say, Ailen, we do the best we can for now.

 

[Gwenllian]

Speaking of which, I found some interesting comments about incense:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botafumeiro

One tradition has it that the use of a swinging censer in the Santiago de Compostela Cathedral began in the 11th century.[14] Arriving pilgrims were tired and unwashed. It was also believed that incense smoke had a prophylactic effect in the time of plagues and epidemics.

Same here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censer

One of the explanations for the great size of the Botafumeiro is that in the early days it was used to freshen the air in the cathedral after being visited by droves of travel-weary pilgrims. It was also once believed that the incense smoke guarded against contracting the many diseases that plagued the populace in past centuries.

And:http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002164

Incense, of course, could not make the prayers of false worshipers acceptable to God. (Pr 28:9; Mr 12:40) On the other hand, the prayers of a righteous one are effectual. (Jas 5:16) So, too, when a plague from God broke out, Aaron quickly “put the incense on and began making atonement for the people.”—Nu 16:46-48.

And: http://www.anandaapothecary.com/articles/essential-oil-esoteric.html

Even as recently as the Middle Ages in Europe, fragrant herbs were known to possess special healing properties by virtue of their fragrances, and were burned in the streets to counteract the odor and ill effects of the poor hygiene of the times. During the time of the Great Plague this method was also used to anticepticise the air.

Maybe they were just using incense to counteract the odor, indeed. Not a happy thought, but it is something to consider. These people in the show just walk along, no problem, everything is the same as usual except that there is nobody around.

I also read in my small Dutch booklet on essential oils and clay that people that worked in the perfume industry did not contract the plague.
Underneath you find the statement that Jews were not as affected as Christians, due to their "unique sanitation system".

This is what I found in 'the Humanure Handbook' by Joseph Jenkins, p.77/78:
(I skipped the bit where he writes about the plague caused by fleas from infected rats.)

Andrew D. White, cofounder of Cornell University, writes,
“Nearly twenty centuries since the rise of Christianity, and down to a period within living memory, at the appearance of any pestilence the Church authorities, instead of devising sanitary measures, have very generally preached the necessity of immediate atonement for offenses against the Almighty. In the principal towns of Europe, as well as in the country at large, down to a recent period, the most ordinary sanitary precautions were neglected, and pestilences continued to be attributed to the wrath of God or the malice of Satan.”
9
It’s now known that the main cause of such immense sacrifice of life was a lack of proper hygienic practices. It’s argued that certain theological reasoning at that time resisted the evolution of proper hygiene. According to White,
“For century after century the idea prevailed that filthiness was akin to holiness.”
Living in filth was regarded by holy men as evidence of sanctity, according to White, who lists numerous saints who never bathed parts or all of their bodies, such as St. Abraham, who washed neither his hands nor his feet for fifty years, or St. Sylvia, who never washed any part of her body except her fingers.
10
Interestingly, after the Black Death left its grim wake across Europe,
“an immensely increased proportion of the landed and personal property of every European country was in the hands of the church.”
11
Apparently, the church was reaping some benefit from the deaths of huge numbers of people. Perhaps the church had a vested interest in maintaining public ignorance about the sources of disease. This insinuation is almost too diabolical for serious consideration. Or is it?
Somehow, the idea developed around the 1400s that Jews and witches were causing the pestilences. Jews were suspected because they didn’t succumb to the pestilences as readily as the Christian population did, presumably because they employed a unique sanitation system more conducive to cleanliness, including the eating of kosher foods. Not understanding this, the Christian population arrived at the conclusion that the Jews’ immunity resulted from protection by Satan. As a result, attempts were made in all parts of Europe to stop the plagues by torturing and murdering the Jews.Twelve thousand Jews were reportedly burned to death in Bavaria alone during the time of the plague, and additionally thousands more were likewise killed throughout Europe.
12
In 1484, the “infallible” Pope Innocent VIII issued a proclamation supporting the church’s opinion that witches were causes of disease, storms, and a variety of ills affecting humanity. The feeling of the church was summed up in one sentence:
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.”
From the middle of the sixteenth to the middle of theseventeenth centuries, women
and men were sent to torture and death by the thousands by both Protestant and Catholic authorities. It’s estimated that the number of victims sacrificed during that century in Germany alone was over a hundred thousand.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/270721/Humanure-Handbook

FWIW.

 

[seek10]

Speaking of which, I found some interesting comments about incense:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botafumeiro

One tradition has it that the use of a swinging censer in the Santiago de Compostela Cathedral began in the 11th century.[14] Arriving pilgrims were tired and unwashed. It was also believed that incense smoke had a prophylactic effect in the time of plagues and epidemics.

Same here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censer

One of the explanations for the great size of the Botafumeiro is that in the early days it was used to freshen the air in the cathedral after being visited by droves of travel-weary pilgrims. It was also once believed that the incense smoke guarded against contracting the many diseases that plagued the populace in past centuries.

Interesting in view of heavy usage of incense in household hindu rituals. 'Worlds in Collision' talks of Venus as hindu god Vishnu , jupiter as shiva etc. rituals contains incense burning, coating tumeric on the feet and in parts of body, distributing drink made of milk ( carbonated foam from venus' tail), Heck, whole other sets of interesting symbolism devoid of truth in these rituals.

 

[thorbiorn]

I also read in my small Dutch booklet on essential oils and clay that people that worked in the perfume industry did not contract the plague.
Underneath you find the statement that Jews were not as affected as Christians, due to their "unique sanitation system".

I read somewhere, that another group that was despised because of their rates of survival were the Roma people / gypsies. They had, at least some of them, better hygienic practices, which had roots in older Indian rules of cleanliness.

Andrew D. White, cofounder of Cornell University, writes,
“
12
In 1484, the “infallible” Pope Innocent VIII issued a proclamation supporting the church’s opinion that witches were causes of disease, storms, and a variety of ills affecting humanity. The feeling of the church was summed up in one sentence:
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.”
From the middle of the sixteenth to the middle of theseventeenth centuries, women
and men were sent to torture and death by the thousands by both Protestant and Catholic authorities. It’s estimated that the number of victims sacrificed during that century in Germany alone was over a hundred thousand.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/270721/Humanure-Handbook

FWIW.

In the German book Die Vernichtung der Weisen Frauen
(The Destruction of the Wise Women.) By Gunnar Heinsohn and Otto Steiger, Ausburg, 2005 (review) they suggest that one important reason the witches were hunted down was because they had knowledge of contraceptives and abortion.

After the plague many workers had died so the powerful landowners and the church needed people to work their lands, not contraceptives and abortion, which allowed for the average people to lead lives and raise children according to their means. This in practical terms meant that they would generate less offspring than fertility provided possibilities - not a popular solution among those who needed labours.



After finishing the series I looked it up and it turns out that the production was surrounded by various obstacles, like court case, change of leadership in the production and more the last episode was supposed to have been in two parts, but they lost some of the recordings and had to make do with what they had. And the character Jenny played by Lucy Flemming who lost her husband in the film also did it in real life a couple of years later when her husband drowned along with her daughter.

In 2006 the BBC carried a series named The Cult of ..... in which episode 5 of 6 is about Survivors:

Survivors

The Cult of..., Science Fiction Episode 5 of 6

Duration: 1 hour, 30 minutes

The series looking at cult sci-fi recalls Dalek creator Terry Nation's 1970s drama series Survivors, about the breakdown of society in a dystopian near-future.

Tapping into ideas of self-sufficiency and commune living that were current at the time, it dramatised the need for a new society to establish its own rules, its own hierarchies, and to build its own infrastructure.

Featuring interviews with the cast and crew, the programme uncovers many interesting facts about the making of Survivors.

Cult or not, Survivors leaves the impression of being being a scary and realistic scenario, while, and I appreciate this more now, at the same time offering a lot of educational value. What I think helped to make the series realistic in the seventies was that we had had this oil-crises, with no driving on Sundays, just as we also had the cold war going on, with its fears of a nuclear cataclysm.

 

[melatonin]

Im 2/3rd's through this now, and tbh for entertainment value, im loving it.
My old man (Whos also watching it with me) reminded me that alot of these were done with "1 takes" to save money.
Its more like watching something at the theatre than a TV production.

Ive just got to the episode after the (Sorry forgot his name) guy who made tonics etc with the plants has left the community.
Im amazed at how easilly they let people into the group - although theres been an awful lot of plot-holes up to now, and im not sure just how serious to take it anymore.
And it turns out he has serious physcological issues.

Quite disappointed with how easilly Charles has given power over to Greg, i expected more of a struggle.
Its intresting that once the threat from outside has decreased, drama increases inside the community, rather than it having a positive effect.

 

[Turgon]

Quite disappointed with how easilly Charles has given power over to Greg, i expected more of a struggle.

I'm a little over half-way through the 2nd season and it's interesting that Charles and Greg represent two diametrically opposed value's and perceptions. Greg really does embody that authoritative mindset, whereas Charles is much more about letting the community and it's members 'find their feet' in their own way. Is it surprising then that Greg would inevitably start to usurp control? ;)

 

[loreta]

Quite disappointed with how easilly Charles has given power over to Greg, i expected more of a struggle.

I'm a little over half-way through the 2nd season and it's interesting that Charles and Greg represent two diametrically opposed value's and perceptions. Greg really does embody that authoritative mindset, whereas Charles is much more about letting the community and it's members 'find their feet' in their own way. Is it surprising then that Greg would inevitably start to usurp control? ;)

Charles is a philosopher and believe in democracy and Greg is a technician. I like Charles, we can discuss with him. Greg is different, he is practical, more aggressive and scientific. If we want to survive maybe we need to be a little of these two characters. But if I have to choose a man in my life in the future of survivors I will take with me Charles.