Telepathy and Distant Personality Diagnosis

mocachapeau said:
But I think you know that defense mechanisms are created with the principle purpose of fooling the one who is creating them, which is why we need help from others to identify them. Even if we are therapists.

Edit:

I just wanted to add something.

From what I have observed, the more intelligent and/or educated a person is, the more complicated and intricate their defense mechanisms must be to fool them. Add an education in psychology and sixteen years of experience as a therapist to the mix, and you come up with a real tough defense to crack. You have SO much intellectual information to draw from to "argue" your case, and the person you are really arguing with is, of course, yourself.

I have observed several times now that some participants in this thread ( not only you mocachapeau ) are under the impression that Stevie is a therapist as it relates to psychological training. I would like to , as a reminder, add a quote from Stevie from one of his earlier posts:

My 16 years wasn't in therapy, it is in practice in bodywork and hypnosis. I have had experience of Alexander Lowen bodywork - but there were no projections made there ,it isnt a talky therapy,its more a physical technique where trapped emotions are released via posture and breathing and occasionally deep tissue manipulation. The deep breathing incorporated into EE comes from Riechien/Lowen Bioenergetic therapy situation.

Addendum:

The confusion is coming from the following quote from Stevie's first post in this thread:

.As a therapist of 16 yrs who has daily contact with people I find the most damaging thing I can do for MYSELF and for My CLIENT is to box them in a profile
 
Thank you EmeraldHope, I must have missed that. My apologies, Stevie. That was sloppy of me.

Re-reading your first post though, I think your statement was vague at best, misleading at worst. But no harm done.

So I would like to amend my previous post:

'Well at least you don't have an education in psychology and 16 years of experience as a therapist added to the mix, creating a real tough defense to crack.' :D

But the part about defense mechanisms being more intricate due to intelligence and/or education still stands. It can be a battle, but I think you can win it.
 
Update

Laura's posting has been enlightening and opened some doors.

As I look back at the topic it has dawned on me that the question I posed is funnel shaped, a better question would have been of the form 'What tools are used in reading behind words?'.
But rather I posted a question based on what I thought the possibilities. In retrospect this was hidden from me and yet it is as if some part saw it all along but was ignored if that makes any sense.

How I experienced the mirroring.

In some ways I did not take it as mirroring. I saw it as the board memebers defending themselves from hard questions by avoiding answering them. Thruthseeker answered and I thought 'Only one moderator willing to look at the possibility they don't know everything'.
More 'asking questions of me' was seen as a defence mechanism by board members so I continually wanted to push back to the original question.
The continual insistance that Anarts post was the 'sole reason' for this thread nearly had me quitting, I saw it as an attempt at undermining my post and a further evidence of defence. FWIW I am still of the opinion that is was partialy responsible for my post and not solely responsible. I had been questioning how what I saw as 'profiling' could be done for a while and the decision came after seeing responses to triplethink.

Mocachapeau's comment that maybe I came here with an attitude to teach struck a cord as some else (Nienna I think) mentioned this in a post a couple of months back so I started examining this and found that there was something in that.

Laura's post from ISOTM about misuse of sex energy got me wondering if I wasn't just putting up a fight, wanting to be right and spending more time on that than examination, which then got me thinking, if in some posts I have been 'trying to teach' then maybe this is misuse of sex energy too, using it to bolster a fantasy a persona of a teacher/knowledgeable person. That really hit home, some part of me knew this was right on the button.

What next
Started reading trapped in the Mirror and see some parallels with some early experiences in the first few chapters I have managed.
Will order the rest of Big 5
And Political Ponerology (I would never have been interested in this book, I have no interest in politics)

The big Q

How do I feel?
Embarassed at presenting teacher image.

Confused, some part of me at times definately saw me presenting this image and wasn't strong enough.
A kind of self shame that 'thats not what I want to be, I want to be real' - something like that - It's hard to put into words.

My 'pride' is hurt, and that in some way feels bad but at the same time I have a sense of being pleased and accepting it as I recognise that it is my false pride that has been hurt.


Anart , thanks for the observation , without it this thread would probably never had appeared and these important connections would not have been seen.


Everyone, Thanks for taking the time and the energy.
Laura, thanks for the skeleton key!

Would be gratefull for any further suggestions or links to threads that might enlightening.

Friends arriving soon , will be staying a few days - unlikely I will be able to post for a few days but shall return.
 
Stevie Argyll said:
The big Q

How do I feel?
Embarassed at presenting teacher image.

Confused, some part of me at times definately saw me presenting this image and wasn't strong enough.
A kind of self shame that 'thats not what I want to be, I want to be real' - something like that - It's hard to put into words.

My 'pride' is hurt, and that in some way feels bad but at the same time I have a sense of being pleased and accepting it as I recognise that it is my false pride that has been hurt.

All perfectly normal responses. Be gentle with yourself and try to not engage in being hard on yourself. Your predator is embarrassed at being seen. It can be very difficult when we first find out that we are not the person we think we are. That we engage in the very behaviors we hate in other people.

I think the reading will do you a lot of good. I also think you will enjoy "Political Ponerology". It will help you to place what goes on in your life and the lives of others in broader context. A good way to think about it might be as world psychology. :)

If there's anything you need, let us know.
 
Stevie, the fact that you are "seeing" these things is a big step in a new direction for you. It is up to you to continue on this path.

Reading the Narcissism Big 5 books is an excellent way to go. And Political Ponerology is more about psychopaths and their ilk that it is about politics. It shows how these sub-human species can take over a government, nation or the world and how it affects the rest of us. With this knowledge, we can get these programs under control, not be sidetracked.

So that is enough to get going with. Next would be to continue reading Laura's other books. There is a lot of 4th Way things in these books, plus a lot of knowledge dealing with things that are good to know.

You can never acquire too much knowledge. ;)

Did you even answer the question on if you are doing the Eiriu Eolas program? If you are not doing it, you really should. It will help you with the Work. It really does.
 
Stevie, I just wrote in another thread something that applies here as well, so I will just repeat it:

The main thing to keep in mind is that you would not be seeking if you didn't have questions. And you wouldn't have questions that are not answered to your satisfaction if there wasn't some disconnect between what you have "learned" - or have been taught - and what some part of you observes. You can probably conclude from this that what you have been taught either isn't enough, or is false. If that is the case, then you really can't know what part of what you think and how you react is real and based on reality and what is not.

In short, you can't think about the way you think WITH the way you think.

If you can just accept this as a working hypothesis and TEST it for awhile, see what results you get, then you can make a choice to keep going or go back to where you were.

Here, nobody asks you to believe anything, but we do ask you to temporarily adopt the notion that everything you have learned or think you know MAY be wrong.

If you can do that, really question your SELF when you react to things, let others know what your "automatic programs" are saying/doing, and be prepared to look at things from other angles, then there is the possibility of really doing some work.
 
I would like to add that, in addition to dealing with just ordinary pathology, we are concerned here with something else. I've posted this excerpt in a couple other threads and it bears repeating here since I notice certain things on this forum lately - a more covert type of "attack", so to say. As I wrote in Secret History:

Richard Dolan’s UFOs and the National Security State is the first comprehensive study of the past 50 years of the U.S. Government’s response to the intrusion of UFO phenomena in America. The compiled evidence - which includes government documents - suggests that a group of specialists working in the shadows, set up and executed the most massive cover-up in the history of government; and that the Human Potential movement and the subsequent New Age movements, were key elements of this cover-up. In other words, they not only have used the “colorful community” of alternative ideas as an unwitting tool of disinformation, it is highly probable that most of it was literally created by them as COINTELPRO. According to analysts, COINTELPRO was the FBI’s secret program to undermine the popular upsurge, which swept the country during the 1960s. Though the name stands for “Counterintelligence Program”, the targets were not enemy spies. The FBI set out to eliminate “radical” political opposition inside the US. What a lot of people do not realize is that this was a high level psychological operation specifically set up to vector “ideological” trends - beliefs, etc. To get a complete picture of the problem, Dolan writes:

Dolan said:
The UFO problem has involved military personnel around the world for more than fifty years, and is wrapped in secrecy. […] Because this subject is so widely ridiculed, it is important to stress why it is worthy of serious attention.[…] Stories of strange objects in the sky go far back into time, but the problem received little attention until the Second World War. […] During the UFO wave of 1947, American military and intelligence organizations conducted multiple, simultaneous investigations of these sightings. […] By the end of 1947, a contingent of analysts at the Air Technical Intelligence Center at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base believed that UFOs were extraterrestrial. By the summer of 1948, this team prepared an “Estimate of the Situation.” […] As the story goes, Air Force Commander Hoyt Vandenberg rejected [this conclusion.] […]

In the summer of 1952… UFO sightings were so frequent and often of such high quality that some in the air force actually wondered whether an invasion was under way. With some help from the secret CIA sponsored Robertson Panel of January 1953, the air force improved censorship over the problem. Still, it never quite went away. Civilian organizations began to collect and analyze interesting UFO reports. […] Then came the great UFO wave of 1965 and 1966, when the air force could no longer hide behind weather balloons and swamp gas, nor withstand public scrutiny. […]

Let us pause to assess the situation. By the mid-1940s, America’s intelligence apparatus had reason to believe that there were artifacts in the skies that did not originate from America, Russia, Germany, or any other country. These objects violated some highly sensitive military airspace, and did not appear to be natural phenomena. One may presume that the affected national security authorities made it an immediate obsession to determine the nature and purpose of these objects, and we may infer that the issue probably became a deep secret by 1946, or 1947 at the latest.

It was at this precise moment in time that the Human Potential movement was “born”. Do we think that this was a coincidence? By the mid-50s, it was becoming obvious that things were getting out of control and in August of 1956, the FBI began its COINTELPRO operation. When traditional modes of repression (exposure, blatant harassment, and prosecution for political crimes) failed to counter the growing insurgency, and even helped to fuel it, the Bureau took the law into its own hands. Its methods ranged far beyond surveillance, and amounted to a domestic version of the covert action for which the CIA has become infamous throughout the world.

Usually, when we think of COINTELPRO, we think of the most well known and typical activities which include sending anonymous or fictitious letters designed to start rumors, among other things, publishing false defamatory or threatening information, forging signatures on fake documents, introducing disruptive and subversive members into organizations to destroy them from within, and so on. Blackmailing insiders in any group to force them to spread false rumors, or to foment factionalism was also common.

What a lot of people don’t keep in mind is the fact that COINTELPRO also concentrated on creating bogus organizations. These bogus groups could serve many functions which might include attacking and/or disrupting bona fide groups, or even just simply creating a diversion with clever propaganda in order to attract members away so as to involve them with time-wasting activity designed to prevent them from doing anything useful. COINTELPRO was also famous for instigation of hostile actions through third parties. According to investigators, these FBI programs were noteworthy because all documents relating to them were stamped “do not file”. This meant that they were never filed in the system, and for all intents and purposes, did not exist. This cover was blown after activists broke into an FBI office in Media, Pennsylvania in 1971. The possibility of finding evidence for any of it, after that event, is about zero. To spell it out in Dolan’s words:

Dolan said:
Regarding matters connected with “national security”, there appears to be a wealth of information that does not exist officially. Thus, a request to find such documents through a Freedom of Information Act request would be in vain. Add to this the likelihood that perhaps the most sensitive information regarding UFOs may not even exist in document form (“the first rule in keeping secrets is nothing on paper”, Richard Helms), and one can appreciate the difficulty that an honest UFO researcher has in ferreting out the truth.

Now, let us take a few logical steps. The UFO problem emerged into the national consciousness in 1947, or thereabouts. Not long afterward, a lot of people began asking a lot of questions. The government wasn’t answering, and so the people began to band together to find out the answers for themselves. They started forming groups. And this is where things get just a bit curious. The thing that was most threatened by the UFO/alien issue seems to have been the Standard Monotheistic Religions. Religion seems to be a necessary component of political control. Social control - that is the mainstay of religion - was most definitely under threat. In fact, what seems to be true is that it is not even clear that religions - as we know them - would have survived a full disclosure. So the logical conclusion is that part of the main reason for the cover-up was to “protect the religious status quo”.

As things stood at the time, protecting the religious status quo - mainly the social controls that stem from religion - was iffy at best. After a century of scholarly investigation into many religious texts, and the raising of many questions about the “old time religion”, there were a lot of people in society who were most definitely turning away from religious dogma. It’s fairly simple to take the next logical step and see that a combining of the questions of those who were disenchanted with religion, with the questions of those who wanted to know just what the heck was going on in terms of possible “extraterrestrials”, was seen as a dangerous and explosive mixture. Something had to be done.

The activities of COINTELPRO in attempting to neutralize political opposition have been pretty well exposed. But we are now considering the fact that, in addition to political activists, it seems that COINTELPRO has particularly targeted groups that are seeking the truth about the interactions between the US government and Ultra Terrestrials, or so-called “aliens”. That a long-time cover-up of these matters has been in effect is certainly evident to any careful researcher.

The COINTELPRO files show the U.S. Government targeted a very broad range of religious, labor and community groups opposed to any of its agendas, and it is only logical to assume that the same type of operation would be created to cover up the “alien agenda”. Such a theoretical COINTELPRO operation also goes far in explaining why, when the sincere researcher of UFO phenomena enters this field, he or she discovers only lies, lies, and more lies; confusion and disinformation. That is most definitely the signature of COINTELPRO.

Considering all of this, would anybody care to suggest that it did not also occur to the Powers that Be that the chief means of diverting attention and covering up the truth would be to literally fund and create the “New Age” and “Human Potential movement”, so that it would follow their agenda of keeping secrets?

In other words, it is extremely likely that the most successful and popular of Metaphysical Mavens and New Age Impresarios are COINTELPRO agents - either consciously or as dupes of those who are. The objective seems to be to attack and “neutralize” those who are seeking the answers. Those who are sincere, who do bona fide research and seek to explicate the truth, are infiltrated, attacked, and marginalized according to standard COINTELPRO procedures.

What all of this seems to suggest is that the Powers That Be (PTB) have developed COINTELPRO to an all new level of Social Shaping, Cultural Brainwashing, and the main targets of this activity would include virtually anyone who is seeking the truth about the shifting realities of our world. The cases of COINTELPRO activities against political groups must be no more than the tip of the iceberg, given that the great bulk of COINTELPRO-type operations remain secret until long after their damage has been done. By all indications, domestic covert operations have become a permanent feature of U.S. politics and Social Programming, and it is hardly likely, considering the evidence, that the New Age and Human Potential fields are exempt.

The implications of this are truly alarming. Those who manage to get close to the truth of these matters, despite the many obstacles in their path, face National covert campaigns to discredit and disrupt their research and reputations. Clearly, COINTELPRO and similar operations under other names also work to distort academic and popular perceptions of the problems facing our world. They have done enormous damage to the search for the Truth.
 
Nienna Eluch said:
Stevie, the fact that you are "seeing" these things is a big step in a new direction for you. It is up to you to continue on this path.

Reading the Narcissism Big 5 books is an excellent way to go. And Political Ponerology is more about psychopaths and their ilk that it is about politics. It shows how these sub-human species can take over a government, nation or the world and how it affects the rest of us. With this knowledge, we can get these programs under control, not be sidetracked.

So that is enough to get going with. Next would be to continue reading Laura's other books. There is a lot of 4th Way things in these books, plus a lot of knowledge dealing with things that are good to know.

You can never acquire too much knowledge. ;)

Did you even answer the question on if you are doing the Eiriu Eolas program? If you are not doing it, you really should. It will help you with the Work. It really does.

Thanks Nienna, I am doing EE, i am breaking it down into different parts which I assume is ok?
eg I do the breathing sections as part of my morning or afternoon walk as I love doing them outside in the fresh air.
 
Laura said:
Stevie, I just wrote in another thread something that applies here as well, so I will just repeat it:

The main thing to keep in mind is that you would not be seeking if you didn't have questions. And you wouldn't have questions that are not answered to your satisfaction if there wasn't some disconnect between what you have "learned" - or have been taught - and what some part of you observes. You can probably conclude from this that what you have been taught either isn't enough, or is false. If that is the case, then you really can't know what part of what you think and how you react is real and based on reality and what is not.

In short, you can't think about the way you think WITH the way you think.

If you can just accept this as a working hypothesis and TEST it for awhile, see what results you get, then you can make a choice to keep going or go back to where you were.

Here, nobody asks you to believe anything, but we do ask you to temporarily adopt the notion that everything you have learned or think you know MAY be wrong.

If you can do that, really question your SELF when you react to things, let others know what your "automatic programs" are saying/doing, and be prepared to look at things from other angles, then there is the possibility of really doing some work.

Taken on board. Thank You !
 
Laura said:
Stevie, are you still with us?

Yes Laura, thanks :)

Been catching up on reading. Finished 'Trapped in the Mirror' and have started 'Political Ponerology'. Thought it better to get up to speed with the recommended background.

Strangely enough I was going to post in a thread this AM, but decided to wait some and observe what founds my motivations.

Regards !
Stevie
 
Great Thread!
I am stunned by how much was presented. Stevie, thank you for continuing on through the thread, watching your interaction with everyone was very helpful. I feel I understood many of your reactions as I have had many similar ones in the not too distant past. I definitely experienced discomfort as I identified with several aspects, which was yet another great reminder. While “sticking with it” is both a blessing and a curse depending on how you finish, you seemed to have finished by gathering in knowledge as opposed to justifying what you “knew” to the end. I have not been so graceful, many times. Thank you to Laura and all the moderators. Your skill with what you present gives me a greater perspective on what I think I know vs. what I probably don’t. Thank you for your time and patience in all the threads.

FWIW Stevie, I don’t have the finesse regarding language or quoting that most people seem to demonstrate here so I try and keep it simple. I may be wrong in my approach, but here it is. When presented with something that someone notices about me I give them the benefit of the doubt. I realize that I have nothing to gain from being right, and everything to gain if I can see where I am wrong. I figure, if I’m right about something, it usually doesn’t make a difference in the larger scheme of my life and if it does it will come back around if it’s truly needed. However, to find where we are wrong is usually presented in an instant that we must clutch on to if we are to gather it, or else we just float back into the river of our illusion. I could be completely off.
 
Thanks Wunjo, for a very graceful way of putting the matter.
 
Just a comment about how a person takes certain posts.

I have found myself going back and reading things that have made me feel uncomfortable in the past. When I read them again with a different frame of mind, the posts seem to take on a different flavor. To me, this kind of says that my whole perspective has changed during the process.

When the things you cling to the hardest become stumbling blocks or stepping stones, therein is the lesson. You just need to stand still long enough to see it for what it is.

Thanks for the question, Stevie.
 
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