The Amygdala Hijack and more

I'm re-watching this thinking about adrenal burn out and how low or high levels of adrenal hormones like cortisol affect the hijack. He says the amygdalya, when it's triggered, sets off the HPA so we know adrenal function affects production of serotonin, catecholamines, GABA and endorphins and if they're low then does this dictate the right side rather than the left side dominating?
 
I wonder about the psychopath's amygdala. I remember reading somewhere that psychopaths only have four emotions; happy, sad, mad, and scared. And that the degree of these emotions are determined soley by how they perceive everything is affecting them, or rather their comfort level and satisfying their apetites.
I don't think they ever experience any range of emotions like anxiety, worry, distress, Or joy or admiration
It's almost creepy watching them fake positive complex emotions for some sort of personal gain of course.

I'm very intrigued with the whole primitive basal ganglia part of the brain that communicates non verbally through the gut and emotional centres. Goleman said the basal ganglia stores everything we do in life and it's where we extract information and social, moral,ethical rules that have worked or haven't to make decisions. When I think of autism, and what Daniel Goleman describes seems to be where alot of problems are for autistic people. Their ability to feel and access what works and doesn't work is impaired thus the social difficulties
 
anya said:
I picked up Daniel Golemans book after viewing his lecture. Below are a few excerpts from his book that I hope you find interesting. When Laura noted the relationship between the HPA axis and adrenal fatigue, I was curious and looked up what he had to say. I also pulled a few quotes from Adrenal Fatigue by James Wilson

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Social Intelligence by Daniel Goleman
Page 225
Under stress, the adrenal glands release cortisol, one of the hormones the body mobilizes in an emergency. These hormones have widespread effects in the body, including many that are adaptive in the short term for healing bodily injuries.
Ordinarily we need a moderate level of cortisol, which acts as a biological “fuel” for our metabolism and helps regulate the immune system. But if our cortisol levels remain to high for prolonged periods, the body pays a price in ill health. The chronic secretion of cortisol (and related hormones) are at play in cardiovascular disease and impaired immune function, exacerbating diabetes and hypertension and even destroying neurons in the hippocampus, harming memory.
Even as cortisol shuts down the hippocampus, it also strokes the amygdala, stimulating the growth of dendrites in that site foe fear. In addition, heightened cortisol blunts the ability of the key areas in the prefrontal cortex to regulate the signals of fear coming from the amygdala.
The combined neural impact of too much cortisol is threefold. The impaired hippocampus learns rather sloppily, over generalizing fearfulness to details of the moment that are irrelevant (such as a distinctive tone of voice). The amygdala circuitry goes on a rampage, and the prefrontal area fails to modulate signals from the overreacting amygdala. The result: the amygdala runs rampant, driving fear, while the hippocampus mistakenly perceives too many triggers for that fear.
The condition of vigilance and overreactivity has been called post-traumatic stress disorder.
In linking stress to health, the key biological systems are the sympathetic nervous system (SNS) and he hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis. When we are distressed, both eh SNS and the HPA axis take up the challenge , secreting hormones that prepare us to handle an emergency or threat. But they do so by borrowing resources from the immune and endocrine system, among others. That weakens these key systems for health, just for a moment or for years at a time.
The SNS and HPA circuits are turned on or off by our emotional states- distress for the worse, happiness for the better. Since other people affect our emotions with such power (through emotional contagion, for example)the casual linkage extends outside our body to our relationships.

Page 230
An interviewer's unnerving ,hostile reaction reliability trigger the HPA axis to produce some of the highest levels of cortisol of any laboratory stress simulation ever tested. The social stress test hikes cortisol much more than does that classic lab ordeal in which volunteers do increasingly difficult math problems under intense time pressure against annoying background noise, with a noxious buzzer signaling wrong answers- but without the presence of someone making nasty judgments. Impersonal ordeals are soon forgotten but judgmental scrutiny delivers a particularity strong and lingering dose of shame.

Page 232
Relationships that are constantly critical, rejecting or harassing keep the HPA axis in constant overdrive.
When the source of stress seems impersonal, like an obnoxious auto alarm we are helpless to stop, our most basic need for acceptance and belonging goes unthreatened. Kemeny found that for such impersonal stress, the body got over its inevitable jump in cortisol within 40 minutes or so. But if the cause was a negative social judgment, cortisol stayed high 50 percent longer, taking an hour or more to return to normal.


Adrenal Fatigue: the 21st Century Stress Syndrome by James L. Wilson
Page 273
Too much physical, emotional, environmental and or psychological stress can deplete your adrenal, causing a decrease in the output of adrenal hormones, particularly cortisol.
During stress cortisol must simultaneously provide more blood glucose, mobilize fats and proteins for a back up supply of glucose and modify immune reactions, heartbeat, blood pressure, brain alertness and nervous system responsiveness. Without cortisol, these mechanisms cannot react adequately to a significant stress challenge. When cortisol levels cannot rise in response to these needs, maintaining your body under stress is nearly impossible, The more extreme the differences between the level of stress and the lack of cortisol the more significant the consequences.

I recently watched the video, it was very interesting and informative.

Further, I looked at this posting by anya and these quotes really grabbed my attention. I had certain flashes where I found myself trying to relate it to personal experiences. Below are my thoughts, and although it is an oversimplification, it might be food for thought for those that have studied this more than I have.

Imagine a man (but it could be the woman - the gender is not significant) who has a spouse that continually criticizes and attacks him - usually with a great deal of anger and sometimes even viciousness. Maybe the attacking spouse does not do it all the time, but the receiver of this treatment perceives it as recurring and actually begins to live "on edge" in the relationship, always expecting attack. Perhaps the receiver has issues from the past that makes him more sensitive than the average person to criticism and loud angry voices, but maybe not. Perhaps the attacker spouse has issues from childhood that activates her amygdala inappropriately and so mostly overreacts to the other persons carelessness, slights, and mistakes, and then she later feels bad about her loss of control, and usually apologizes afterwards.

However there is a cost, quoting from the book: "Relationships that are constantly critical, rejecting or harassing keep the HPA axis in constant overdrive"

So the spouse on the receiving end, although he may complain sometimes about the manner in which he is approached by his spouse, is basically unaware of the deeper effects going on, at some level accepts the treatment to a certain degree because he understands that she often has a valid point behind the over-the-top anger and attacks. In any case they always kiss and make up in the end and so he accepts that this must be how relationships must be between imperfect people.

This is what we are taught to do, is forgive and forget. However this up and down cycle of attack and argument followed by calming down and forgiveness continues for many years, and suddenly, for no apparent reason, he suddenly starts to lose his energy and is helplessly tired all time and the doctors cannot find any reason for it. However it is adrenal fatigue brought on by over production of cortisol from too constant atmosphere of either being attacked or else expecting an attack. The HPA axis has been in constant overdrive.

Another interesting point to be made in this kind of spousal relationship:

"When the source of stress seems impersonal, like an obnoxious auto alarm we are helpless to stop, our most basic need for acceptance and belonging goes unthreatened. Kemeny found that for such impersonal stress, the body got over its inevitable jump in cortisol within 40 minutes or so"

The spouse on the receiving end, in order to protect himself, might begin to only think of his spouse as "impersonal obnoxious auto alarm" because it is less stressful. In this case he protects himself from the fact that his "most basic need for acceptance and belonging" is being denied. In other words, unconsciously, to protect himself he loses all caring, attachment, and respect for his spouse as a real human being so that she becomes just a "noise maker" that, if handled correctly, can be managed so it does not go off too often, and not for too long. In any case his spouse is a "thing" not a person, and so he has to just wait for it to blow over and things will be peaceful again: this results in less production of cortisol! Therefore, in this way, he lowers his stress somewhat.

The sad thing is, the relationship progressively devolves from one of caring about the spouse, to simply acting in such a way as to "shut her up". The purpose, at least partially, of flowers and gifts and ordinary friendly gestures are mainly to keep her quiet, not because he feels any genuine caring or concern for her anymore. He only wants peace in the house, and less stress.

Further, there is little desire to spend free time with this now "non-person", and there is less and less sharing. He will begin to not meet her emotional needs, probably only waking up now and then to notice her when she reminds him. The attacking spouse will complain how her partner used to be kind and loving and now has become cold and distant. There is something wrong with him because he has lost his emotions and feelings. Since it has always been her way to deal with problems, especially ones that activate her emotional triggers, she probably will even attack him and criticize him for this and demand he get therapy.

In the end these spouses "grow apart" as the phrase is often stated when people site their reasons for divorce.
 
Breton said:
In the end these spouses "grow apart" as the phrase is often stated when people site their reasons for divorce.

Hmmm... perhaps you might want to ask your wife to watch the video and then put what you have written above in a little essay for her to read.

I'm not saying it will help or change anything, but it's worth a try. If it does not work, you have written the most perfect explanation of what is going on that I have ever read - you could take the video and your essay to a psychologist, too, and might get some back-up for what you may ultimately have to do in respect of the relationship.
 
Laura said:
Breton said:
In the end these spouses "grow apart" as the phrase is often stated when people site their reasons for divorce.

Hmmm... perhaps you might want to ask your wife to watch the video and then put what you have written above in a little essay for her to read.

I'm not saying it will help or change anything, but it's worth a try. If it does not work, you have written the most perfect explanation of what is going on that I have ever read - you could take the video and your essay to a psychologist, too, and might get some back-up for what you may ultimately have to do in respect of the relationship.

I agree, Breton. I think it should that post should be a sticky or something, because it captures the dynamics perfectly.
 
Breton said:
In the end these spouses "grow apart" as the phrase is often stated when people site their reasons for divorce.


I too wish to thank you for your compassionate and impartial account of the 'growing apart' of automatic relationship between welling meaning, but sleeping individuals. I recognize and share your sorrow for the suffering we inflict and endure in our ignorance. Thank you, Breton.
 
Breton said:
{stuff Breton posted}

Breton, that's a wonderful post. Thanks for writing it. I couldn't help but remember everything Sam Vaknin said in that video when he was describing "the secret of bullying". Of course, your post broadens and deepens the context considerably.

I'm gonna copy and print it out for my own in-depth study. Thanks again. :flowers:
 
I am just wondering that by strengthening in inhibitory pathway of the left prefrontal cortex through meditation, do we become less of a food source to 4D because we can control our emotions better? As opposed to being at the mercy of our brain chemicals.
 
aaron r said:
I am just wondering that by strengthening in inhibitory pathway of the left prefrontal cortex through meditation, do we become less of a food source to 4D because we can control our emotions better? As opposed to being at the mercy of our brain chemicals.

Yup. Discipline, as don Juan said, cause the predator to flee.
 
Divide By Zero said:
I find the part about right and left brained people to be amazing.

Being right brained he says would be more like depressed, and left brained things roll off easily. I feel that it is relative to this link below. They mention right brained as "big picture" oriented. Seeing this society without the big picture, one can easily skip the problems, because there may be some details that seem to make things look good. For example, this past economic boom, people saw their investments go up, they saw house prices rise, more people employed, but failed to think that overall nothing changed to deserve this boost. Those that predicted failure were categorized as pushing doom and gloom, another listed feature of the right brain: present and FUTURE.

I don't really get how they put reality based for the left brain, perhaps on a micro scale of "ones own reality". Perhaps this is relative to what psychopaths do, focus on their immediate reality?


Link: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/right-brain-v-left-brain/story-e6frf7jo-1111114603615
I see her spinning clockwise relative to "top"; right brained.
LEFT BRAIN FUNCTIONS
uses logic
detail oriented
facts rule
words and language
present and past
math and science
can comprehend
knowing
acknowledges
order/pattern perception
knows object name
reality based
forms strategies
practical
safe

RIGHT BRAIN FUNCTIONS
uses feeling
"big picture" oriented
imagination rules
symbols and images

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
present and future
philosophy & religion
can "get it" (i.e. meaning)
believes
appreciates
spatial perception
knows object function
fantasy based
presents possibilities
impetuous
risk taking
I once took a test that said i was neither right, nor left brain dominant, and that it was rare. I can't remember the test, but it seemed really simple. I wonder if it was even accurate? Does anyone know of a test one can take?
 
Today stumbled upon this interesting short TED talk by David Levitin. He is a neuroscientist, and he shares some ideas on how to approach stressful situations. Here's the summary and the video below. In overall, he doesn't say anything groundbreaking, but during his talk he also touched on the topic of statins, and how they are being over prescribed, while even the mainstream statistics indicates that they are far from being effective. This part was particularly revealing. Recommended.

You're not at your best when you're stressed. In fact, your brain has evolved over millennia to release cortisol in stressful situations, inhibiting rational, logical thinking but potentially helping you survive, say, being attacked by a lion. Neuroscientist Daniel Levitin thinks there's a way to avoid making critical mistakes in stressful situations, when your thinking becomes clouded — the pre-mortem. "We all are going to fail now and then," he says. "The idea is to think ahead to what those failures might be."

 
Keit said:
Today stumbled upon this interesting short TED talk by David Levitin. He is a neuroscientist, and he shares some ideas on how to approach stressful situations. Here's the summary and the video below. In overall, he doesn't say anything groundbreaking, but during his talk he also touched on the topic of statins, and how they are being over prescribed, while even the mainstream statistics indicates that they are far from being effective. This part was particularly revealing. Recommended.

You're not at your best when you're stressed. In fact, your brain has evolved over millennia to release cortisol in stressful situations, inhibiting rational, logical thinking but potentially helping you survive, say, being attacked by a lion.

Thanks Keit. Recommendation taken to heart. According to some stuff I've read, cortisol takes much longer to leave the system than it takes for adrenaline and other things to be totally reabsorbed during the body's effort to rebalance the system. This might be one reason why bullying eventually wears a victim so far down before they have a chance to totally rebound from attack even when they may think they're feeling better.

I so remember Sam Vaknin talking about "the secret of bullying" in that video of him that was produced with the title "I, Psychopath." His technique being to keep people from recovering completely by feeding them small doses of his bullying outbursts.

I work with some people who have to deal with that crap and who will find this kind of information useful, so thanks a bunch.
 
That was great, inspiring, instructive. Thanks, Laura, for the link to Daniel Goleman.

I am going through the Big Five PsychBooks now, and what Goleman had to say was welcome. I am aware of being rather slow to pick up the threads, to begin an orderly progressive study that will increasingly enable me in the Work. Ascension is always the goal.

Martha Stout's The Myth of Sanity was "cool" in that it demonstrated starkly the versatility and ingeniousness of the human mind; I can be "proud" of us for being able to create a whole other consciousness to handle an attack while at the same time the basal me might know nothing of it; yet there is leakage in the separator between the basal one and the other, and, as we learn in her work, there are consequences and increasing difficulties. The Narcissistic Family, written, as the authors stated, for the therapist, gave me a view of the effects of narcissism and the ways of bringing it into therapy that was comforting. Now I am just done with Trapped in the Mirror; a watershed book for me, it laid out neatly in my mind the four generations of Smiths in all their intergenerational, introjected glory; I feel good, at last, because (for one thing) I begin to know finally why I've always had the feeling of having done little but waste a lot of time; I have been given pause, as a gift. I've begun Unholy Hungers -- Jung, at last!

And now here is Daniel Goleman. Modern, recent, advances in psychological research have given us a way to probe the working of the mind using a scientific language that enables us to talk of facts in relation to our knowledge of the mind that incorporates scientifically understood data that has been previously available to us mainly (I think) symbolically -- the great 'as if.'

I have a long way to go, but I can say I have begun.

Here are a few words from Federico Fellini:

Jung's scientific humility in confronting the mystery of life seems more likable to me. His thoughts and ideas don't pretend to be doctrine, only suggest a new point of view, a different attitude which can enrich and evolve our personality. They guide us toward a more aware, more open way of life and reconcile us with the remote, frustrated, mortified, sick parts of our selves. Jung is undoubtedly more congenial, more friendly, more nourishing for someone who believes he needs to find himself in the dimension of creative imagination. Freud with his theories makes us think; Jung on the other hand allows us to imagine, to dream and to move forward into the dark labyrinth of our being, to perceive its vigilant, protective presence.
From the little I have read one thing more than any other has impressed me: the different views Freud and Jung have of the phenomenon of symbolism. The problem has interested me, since as a movie director I am led to use symbolic images in my work. For Jung a symbol expresses an intuition better than any other expression of it. For Freud a symbol substitutes for something else which should be done away with and therefore is better forgotten than expressed. For Jung, then, a symbol is a way of expressing the inexpressible, albeit ambiguously. For Freud it is a way of hiding what it is forbidden to express.

To what degree will recent advances in the psychological sciences, in the entire holistic approach to the study of the human (to say nothing of everything else in the universe), make the reading of Freud and Jung an option that might leave these two great fellows little to say?
 
leesmith said:
To what degree will recent advances in the psychological sciences, in the entire holistic approach to the study of the human (to say nothing of everything else in the universe), make the reading of Freud and Jung an option that might leave these two great fellows little to say?

I don't know about leaving these two fellows with little to say, but certainly the books that have been discussed on the cognitive sciences in particular seem to be the next step in living more constructive and productive lives. Cognitive psychology deals with all of the biases, fallacies and erroneous thinking that we often fall pray to because of how our minds seem to work. This area also coincides with metacognition, or thinking about the way one thinks and being aware in general of our thoughts and those things in our inner and outer environments that seem to trigger our thoughts. You might say that 'doing the Work' is the esoteric version of metacognition. But it really amounts to creating new pathways in the brain in real time, as we learn to question our sometimes one-track minds.

Here are some great threads that I have found really helpful and that you can start with, leesmith. I'm sure there are others.

The Adaptive Unconscious

Brain Changer: How Harnessing Your Brain's Power to Adapt Can Change Your Life

Splitting as a Symptom of Internal Considering
 
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