The Anonymous We

[Hildegarda]

Whew! I'm letting that be a lesson in checking my assumptions at the door. Between this and the Alex Jones thread, I sure am getting the results of wishful thinking thrust in my face pretty plainly. Anonymous certainly isn't what I thought it was!

Well. "All there is, is lessons."

Exactly ... and by starting this conversation, you have helped others -- me for sure -- to learn some lessons as well. Thank you also for sharing a quote from your anon friend, it really illustrates the points we covered in this discussions.

 

[Pierre]

But that doesn't at all rule out positive lessons. In terms of harm done to others, some participants may well be so sickened by one or another of the entity's excesses that they change their ways (and, yes, some will learn to suppress their empathy with ever greater efficiency.) Others might take away the lesson that, as part of an anonymous group, they can get away with things they can't otherwise: there are obvious applications here with organized resistance to fascist governments.

That's an example of conversive thinking, like war for peace, that Lobaczewski describes in Political Ponerology.

Of course such negative environment like fascism or petty tyrants can lead to some positive outcomes. However the major result of such groups is the same as any ponerized organisation : havoc, suffering, destruction.

It's not because a few people learnt positive lessons from a fascist government that this government is positive or creative.

 

[psychegram]

Whew! I'm letting that be a lesson in checking my assumptions at the door. Between this and the Alex Jones thread, I sure am getting the results of wishful thinking thrust in my face pretty plainly. Anonymous certainly isn't what I thought it was!

Well. "All there is, is lessons."

Exactly ... and by starting this conversation, you have helped others -- me for sure -- to learn some lessons as well. Thank you also for sharing a quote from your anon friend, it really illustrates the points we covered in this discussions.

That was my intention ... everything is an opportunity for learning. I'm glad this topic was so fruitful ... especially considering it's outside the usual subject matter covered here.

But that doesn't at all rule out positive lessons. In terms of harm done to others, some participants may well be so sickened by one or another of the entity's excesses that they change their ways (and, yes, some will learn to suppress their empathy with ever greater efficiency.) Others might take away the lesson that, as part of an anonymous group, they can get away with things they can't otherwise: there are obvious applications here with organized resistance to fascist governments.

That's an example of conversive thinking, like war for peace, that Lobaczewski describes in Political Ponerology.

Of course such negative environment like fascism or petty tyrants can lead to some positive outcomes. However the major result of such groups is the same as any ponerized organisation : havoc, suffering, destruction.

It's not because a few people learnt positive lessons from a fascist government that this government is positive or creative.

You're absolutely right ... and again, I was - at one level - conscious of what I was doing when I wrote those words. That I wrote them anyway speaks to one of the stronger programs I have, which I call my 'Devil's Advocate' subroutine: used positively, it helps me avoid the dangers of groupthink, but overused (and I have a tendency to overuse it), it can have me clutching at straws to avoid agreeing with whatever group I'm in. You'd think I'd be more aware of its dangers after it had me supporting the War on Terror for years (I'm Canadian, and most Canadians are completely against the war.) Of course once I understood 9/11 I realized the truth about the war ... but it's one thing to recognize external lies, quite another to fess up to the internal programs that made one amenable to deception in the first place.

To be more specific, it's impossible that this anonymous movement could ever be a force for creation. It's likely already infected with a variety of characteropaths, probably a few psychopaths as well, not to mention narcissistically wounded or straight up NPD individuals. In order to have a movement achieve the positive affects you describe by quoting Joe you need first of all, a solid awareness of psychology and ponerology in order to keep your group or network uncorruptable. Simply put, a thoroughly understanding of psychology and ponerology acts as a immunization against infection. Given that this Anonymous group lacks that awareness and is already being stirred by deviants, there is no possibly it could be a 'seed of rebirth and regrowth'. If anything it will serve as another vehicle to spread the infection.

You know, you're probably right. Looked at a little more clearly, the group would seem to provide a vehicle for the ponerization of otherwise normal individuals: first the ego dissociation into an allegedly leaderless group (thus giving up one's own will), followed by nudges from characteropaths hidden within the group that send the group as a whole in destructive directions that sweep along other members, so that they find themselves committing acts they would ordinarily never have dreamed of for no other reason than to amuse the group. The longer participation continues the deeper the ponerization becomes.