The Cs and Gurdjieff

[webglider]

webglider: I'll take a look at it but FWIW, I'm not under the influence of a "new age paradigm" such as espoused by "the Secret," and all that. I know better. EDIT: Just read it and I agree with it completely. What puzzles me is why you'd think otherwise?

When I went back and reread "Why You Don't Create Your Own Reality - an antidote to fatuous New Age paradigms" I realized that it was not the essay to which I meant to refer you.

I can't find that essay now, but perhaps someone on the forum can help me locate it. It's about how the increased presence of UFOs coupled with the perceived threat from a potentially organized, educated, and politcally aware youth movement was countered by the creation of "The New Age "

The New Age Movement was deliberately created to direct the individual's energies inward. What better way to deflect thought from objective reality than to promulgate the idea that there is no difference between objective and subjective realities?

When I reread the Michael Topper essay, I had the sense that something was missing. I remember it being introduced by Laura the first time I read it, and followed by the essay that I thought contained the information I summarized above.

I thought it might be good for you to read it as you, and myself, and Laura lived through those times.

The Gurdjieff Journal #39 Volume 10 Issue 3 called "Gurdjieff & The New Age" that goes into great depth about the events of those times including the invention and use of psychedelic drugs to expand consciousness.

There is also documentaries which are found on Information Clearinghouse called "The Century Of The Self" about mass mind control beginning in the early 20th Century.

I recommend the above to you because the "taste" of your posts seems to indicate to me that you are very identified with Gurdjieff. I was also in a 4th Way School, and it was very flattering the way that we were told how we were so much more "awake" than those on the outside who were "asleep".

I'm very grateful to all that I learned there, but I did leave.

I respect that Laura does not make herself into a cult figure and cautions against taking the C's too literally. I respect that we are asked to investigate everything for ourselves.

After all, the techniques for herding sheep have been practiced over the millenium, and even the best teachings can be corrupted.

"At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned. On the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant. Secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them. In the third place he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it. Further, the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to others that they were eagles, to others that they were men, and to others that they were magicians.

"And after this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again but quietly awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins.

 

[kenlee]

Now, I understand that the phrase "in people" can be taken as to mean "all people" which may be why you say "Gurdjieff's aim was to wake up the world." But does "in people" mean ALL people everywhere? If you think this then you are not familiar with the Gurdjieff teaching which clearly indicates that the Forth Way is NOT for "all" people. On the contrary. Gurdjieff makes it quite clear in Chapter 2 of Fragments (ISOM) that knowledge is "material" and that most people do not want it. That those of us who DO want it are under an obligation to "gather" it, especially in times such as we find ourselves now. I mentioned this above but here is the full context for your consideration [my bold and underlinging].

Hi painter. Completely reading and carefully contemplating/pondering the Wave Series and the Adventure Series might give you more information so you’ll be able to look at your above question within the context of the bigger picture, that is, within the context of what is mentioned in the series such as, for example, the nature of the hyperdimensional reality, hyperkinetic sensate, cometary showers, nonlinear dynamics, and so on. Regarding the effect on “all people” I don’t really know but it might have something to do with what is given in this part of the Wave Series.

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/wave13i.htm

Nonlinear equations are "math from the Twilight Zone" where the normal mathematical landscape can suddenly become an alternate reality. In nonlinear equations, a small change in one variable can have a disproportionate impact on other variables. This can be catastrophic or serendipitous.

 

[Laura]

Thank you, Laura. I'm really enjoying all this :)

Well, I hope that's a good thing. I like talking about Gurdjieff. Heck, I love him. After we had been working with groups for a few years, I went back and started re-reading ISOTM. It was actually on the train to Paris and I opened it at a random page which happened to be Chapter 11... Anyway, this second reading (in the intervening years I was reading a lot of other stuff) was SUCH a revelation. I could see that he had experienced the same dynamics with people that we faced daily, and I could "be" (small b) inside his skin.

So, we scanned the book, converted it to a file, and I started doing text searches for key words and assembling topical excerpts. I found that almost every time a problem came up in QFS, Gurdjieff had some experience and had given very wise advice.

Later, I even had dreams about him giving me comfort and advice when I faced a difficult situation that required careful handling. He also gave me courage to be firm when needed. I also realized, in a startling way, based on his description and experiences, that what we were doing - what the whole Cs thing was about - was a 4th Way work. Our aim is not exactly the same as his - but it is close.

I came to reading Fragments from a very different path than yours. I'd already been searching for many years for something I didn't really know how to describe. From my earliest "intuitions" (mentioned in my introductory thread) and through readings begun after my 19th year (as I mostly did not read prior to that time), I'd come to the conclusion that "something" was "amiss" with the whole picture we have of ourselves and our history -- who we are, where we are, what we are, and so forth. From my readings from 1967 to 1980 I'd come to the conclusion that the whole species was suffering some form of "collective amnesia," which I suspected had to do either with some event in our past of a planetary nature or something more sinister and mysterious, and possibly both.

I'd been searching, and I knew something was wrong, too. As I said, the above excerpt begins about half way through the book.

<snip> I bring this up because although I came to Fragments from a very different trajectory, many of my reactions were the same as your own. I don't think I ever threw the book against the wall but I do know that my first impression was of its "dryness" and often the things Gurdjieff was reported to have said really upset me. Reading it the first time was extremely difficult and sometimes quite painful. But, as you say, it leaves a seed that somehow begins to take root through reflection and observation.

I still have that copy - held together with duct tape.

Your story about your vision in church is quite interesting. I didn't know you'd been a fundamentalist at one time but somehow that doesn't surprise me too much. I have a story of my own I'll share with you in a moment.

I got into it when I married my 1st husband. That was his "thing." And it sure turned out to be evil...

What strikes me in what you've written, though, is that you had been engaged in a practice. I think this is very important. It was a certain preparation, apparently for everything that has followed from that time.

Yes, and actually, the Cs communication is a "practice" too. It requires a particular kind of focus and awareness that is totally unique.

By the way, I'm continuing to read further in the Wave Series and, indeed, it is fascinating!

Thank you. It's not perfect, and I've made corrections and additions and a very few deletions in the book version. And, the typos are mostly corrected. Back then, I didn't have anybody to edit me.

It is difficult for me to fathom how well read you are in so many diverse subject areas. I know I've read more in my lifetime than all my ancestors all the way back to Adam but you have me beat a thousand fold. And, apparently, you can remember what you've read and keep track of it in a more or less encyclopedic way. Unfortunately my mind doesn't work that way at all and my ability to retain specifics varies widely.

Unfortunately, my mind does work that way. It's a blessing when I write, but a burden for living.

Hope the electrical storm was not a problem for you.

Wasn't an electrical storm. We had 90 mph winds for about half the day... a veritable hurricane, though that's not what they call them in France. We lost over 15 trees, one of them coming down on our barn roof and it is now half destroyed. The only really rough period was when the wind was so strong that the back door would not stay closed and we had to barricade it with 50 lb bags of magnesium. We were without electricity for about 10 hours and cooked our dinner on the wood-burning stove in the kitchen (Salmon with herbs.)

It seems to have died down completely now, and we actually got a glimpse of the sun just as it was setting. And, fortunately, the satellite dish does not have to be re-set. But lord, what a lot of work we have to do! The tree that came down on the barn was an oak, probably over a hundred years old. It was as big around as 4 men standing bunched together.

I'm about to learn how insurance companies work in France.

Anyway, here is my story:

<snip>

That is a GREAT story! I would say the universe was looking after you and sent you a clear message!

And measles the first time! How symbolic!

Open channels.

Indeed.


Added: See http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=11534 for the scoop on the storm.

 

[painter]

In what way?

Gurdjieff used different analogies including that of a retort filled with various metallic powders whose properties can be altered through a variety of processes. [See: ISOM, Ch. 2, pp 43]

It has to do with qualities of 'matter', 'energy' and 'attention', inner alchemy. Something tangible, experiential, 'material', has been accumulated within my being such that it has grown. The ability to know, understand, and do, is relative to the 'charge', 'weight' and 'concentration' of these substances and, perhaps most importantly, my ability to remain conscious of them under certain conditions through a period of time. That is to say there is a greater "quantity" and "quality" of inner substances as a result of work on myself in direct connection with the conditions established by the Gurdjieff transmission.

 

[painter]

webglider: I'll take a look at it but FWIW, I'm not under the influence of a "new age paradigm" such as espoused by "the Secret," and all that. I know better. EDIT: Just read it and I agree with it completely. What puzzles me is why you'd think otherwise?

When I went back and reread "Why You Don't Create Your Own Reality - an antidote to fatuous New Age paradigms" I realized that it was not the essay to which I meant to refer you.

I can't find that essay now, but perhaps someone on the forum can help me locate it. It's about how the increased presence of UFOs coupled with the perceived threat from a potentially organized, educated, and politcally aware youth movement was countered by the creation of "The New Age "

I would be interested to see it.

The New Age Movement was deliberately created to direct the individual's energies inward. What better way to deflect thought from objective reality than to promulgate the idea that there is no difference between objective and subjective realities?

When I reread the Michael Topper essay, I had the sense that something was missing. I remember it being introduced by Laura the first time I read it, and followed by the essay that I thought contained the information I summarized above.

I thought it might be good for you to read it as you, and myself, and Laura lived through those times.

Yes.

The Gurdjieff Journal #39 Volume 10 Issue 3 called "Gurdjieff & The New Age" that goes into great depth about the events of those times including the invention and use of psychedelic drugs to expand consciousness.

I believe I saw this years ago but it would be interesting to look it again now. Is it online?

EDIT: I see there is a beginning of it here _http://www.gurdjieff-legacy.org/40articles/newage.htm
EDIT 2: Hmmm _http://www.thegurdjieffjournal.org/TheGurdjieffJournal39-3.htm
EDIT 3: WOW! Thanks for suggesting this webglider. I'm capable of giving it far greater attention that before.

There is also documentaries which are found on Information Clearinghouse called "The Century Of The Self" about mass mind control beginning in the early 20th Century.

Seen it (and Power of Nightmares). More than once.

I recommend the above to you because the "taste" of your posts seems to indicate to me that you are very identified with Gurdjieff.

Maybe. Maybe you misunderstand my intent. You would have to know more about me and my relation to the Foundation to understand this. See the conclusion arrived at after the burning of the church described above as a starter.

I was also in a 4th Way School, and it was very flattering the way that we were told how we were so much more "awake" than those on the outside who were "asleep".

I don't know what kind of alleged "4th Way School" you were in but I have never, ever, been told such a thing. In fact, I would say anyone who would say such a thing knows nothing. "Sleep" is our condition, our "reality". As I believe Laura would say, and I'm sure she'll correct me if I have this wrong, "sleep" is the very nature of 3rd Density STS. There is no getting around this. Being "awake" is relative to the degree of consciousness of my sleep.

I'm very grateful to all that I learned there, but I did leave.

Good thing.

I respect that Laura does not make herself into a cult figure and cautions against taking the C's too literally. I respect that we are asked to investigate everything for ourselves.

After all, the techniques for herding sheep have been practiced over the millenium, and even the best teachings can be corrupted.

Not only "can" be but, as I understand it, must be. You understand that you can toss a brick up in the air directly over your head. A great achievement. Quite fascinating. You understand that if you stand there looking at it and don't get out of the way as it begins its lawful descent, you're going to be very sorry, very fast. Right? The higher you toss the brick, unless you toss it so high it goes into orbit, the more "sorry" you will become. Maybe even food for worms.

 

[Beau]

When I went back and reread "Why You Don't Create Your Own Reality - an antidote to fatuous New Age paradigms" I realized that it was not the essay to which I meant to refer you.

I can't find that essay now, but perhaps someone on the forum can help me locate it. It's about how the increased presence of UFOs coupled with the perceived threat from a potentially organized, educated, and politcally aware youth movement was countered by the creation of "The New Age "

I would be interested to see it.

Webglider, perhaps you were referring to Aliens and Cosmic COINTELPRO?

 

[painter]

Thank you, Laura. I'm really enjoying all this :)

Well, I hope that's a good thing. I like talking about Gurdjieff. Heck, I love him.

Me too. I've often wished I could have been in his presence but given my subjectivity, I'm not sure I could have tolerated it.

<snip>
Later, I even had dreams about him giving me comfort and advice when I faced a difficult situation that required careful handling. He also gave me courage to be firm when needed. I also realized, in a startling way, based on his description and experiences, that what we were doing - what the whole Cs thing was about - was a 4th Way work. Our aim is not exactly the same as his - but it is close.

I'm still trying to understand all this, of course. From my readings so far I think I have some sense of your aim, having to do with choice of orientation.

The phrase "valiant surrender" just appeared.

<s>

Your story about your vision in church is quite interesting. I didn't know you'd been a fundamentalist at one time but somehow that doesn't surprise me too much. I have a story of my own I'll share with you in a moment.

I got into it when I married my 1st husband. That was his "thing." And it sure turned out to be evil...

I left the midwest in 1973 and moved to California where I've lived ever since. Not long afterward my mother and two older sisters went through a "conversion" and became immersed in an evangelical stream. I very seldom went back to my roots but when ever I did the heat was always on to "convert" me. After being in the work for some time (so, roughly late 80s, early 90s) I agreed to attend one of their sunday meetings when I was back visiting -- and I actually found it quite fascinating. It just so happened that the minister speaking that Sunday was not the usual, local yokel (who I had met before and had seen as an ignorant a toad). This other fellow was from some ministerial college or university and I listened to his sermon with rapt attention. Fascinating, really. He was speaking about our relationship to God and I realized there was nothing in what he said with which I would disagree so long as it was properly understood. The problem was, no one 'got it'. No one 'understood' it. No one was 'prepared' to, even the fellow delivering the sermon (however, I detected that he might be closer to it than most). But, of course, no one 'knew' they didn't get it nor knew they were not prepared to get it. At some point after the sermon the more 'enthusiastic' part of the service began with various members of the congregation getting whipped up into speaking in tongues waving their hands about and what have you -- all of which had, to me, the appearance of 'aping', 'acting' and 'make believe'. That is not to say genuine 'enthusiasm' doesn't exist. I'm sure it does. But there was nothing sincere in what I saw around me that day. However, there was an energy in the room, a palpable presence, perhaps more than one. Clearly something was going on. To be honest, it gave me the creeps -- and I'm sure you understand why, possibly even more than I do.

What strikes me in what you've written, though, is that you had been engaged in a practice. I think this is very important. It was a certain preparation, apparently for everything that has followed from that time.

Yes, and actually, the Cs communication is a "practice" too. It requires a particular kind of focus and awareness that is totally unique.

I had already begun to suspect as much. I've never 'tried' 'channeling' (or whatever you wan to call it, except once, which I'll get to directly) -- not because I think it is 'bunk' but exactly the opposite. It is potentially dangerous.

In 1986 I had a series of 'dreams' one of which I will tell you in detail. I woke up with the sensation of a 'reptilian like tree sloth' on my back. I was lying face down on my bed and I could feel the weight of this creature -- about three feet long -- pressing down and could feel its talons biting into my skin on my shoulders and lower back just above my hips. It was completely motionless and seemed to be indicating that if I moved even one iota, it would (you'll love this) DEVOUR me! This sensation and awareness was so shocking to me that my heart was racing and my body was filled with adrenalin. I was terrified! My god, this can't be happening! This is unreal! There is something ON ME!! On my BACK! Holy S*t what am I going to do?? The hard thing to impress upon people when I tell this story is how PHYSICAL the sensation was. It was as real to me as I am to myself right now. I knew where I was, who I was, what was going on -- in every respect I was completely awake in my ordinary state -- but there was this SENSATION of a physical entity clawing into my back, almost daring me to react. So, to communicate this, I usually go around to the back of the person I'm telling this to and dig my fingers into their shoulders in precisely the same way these "talons" were digging into me. Invariably it creeps them out!

Now as this was taking place another part of my mind was saying, "THIS IS NUTS! This can't be happening!" but the sensation was so palpably real my entire autonomic fright/flight system was in full force. But as I gave more weight of attention to this "this can't be real" thought I could sense that the "creature" was beginning to dissolve. It was very subtle at first but then the pace of disillusion increased and within a matter of a few moments the physical sensation of its presence had completely dissolved from my consciousness. My heart was still beating rapidly and I was in a state of hyper awareness but in due course I gathered up the courage to begin to move, to roll over onto my back and begin to think, WTF??!! Interestingly I could still 'sense' in some way a 'presence' -- and this did NOT go away.

I got up and went about my day but I began to realize that this 'presence' was still lurking around -- that, in fact, it had been lurking around possibly all my life. This was very 'weird'. I no longer remember the exact chronology of events but I do recall that about this time I came EXTREMELY close to being involved in what could have been a fatal accident. I had been driving on the freeway along what was then the lower deck of "the cypress structure" -- which collapsed during the 1989 earthquake here killing many people. I was attempting to pass a large flat-bed semi truck loaded with iron pipes on his right side, in the 'slow' lane up against the walled edge of the freeway. Suddenly, this truck decides to move into my lane! He's closing in on me apparently unaware that me and my little Nissan pick-up truck are there at all! I start honking my horn and gun it and manage to get out from between him and the wall but not before his front bumper scraped the hell out of the back, left side of my truck. WHOA!

I no longer recall exactly how I put this together in my own head but what I began to suspect was that 'in some sense of the word' this 'entity' was related to my father, had been passed on to me through him, and was a 'death wish' for me of some sort. (One always has to be careful the story one weaves around these things -- I'm not claiming to know the what is what of it, just relaying the 'sense' I made of it at the time. OH, and it might be helpful to know that my only brother, 20 years my senior, was killed in a car accident at age 36 -- struck by a drunk driver who ran a stop sign knocking my brother's car over an embankment where it came to rest upside down leaving him to bleed to death upside down. Sorry, don't mean to be gross, but it is a fact and interesting given what is under discussion here.) SO, in 1986 I would have been just 2 years older than my older brother was when he died.

SOMEHOW I got it into my head that I needed to "speak" with this entity, find out what it wanted. So, without any guidance other than my own intuition I arranged a "seance" situation. I live in an artists loft so I had a lot of room to do this. I had a round mirror -- about 40 inches in diameter -- so, one evening, I put it on the floor and around it I placed 9 large candles evenly spaced. I sat on a cushion at between two candles along one edge and placed another cushion 180° opposite me with a candle directly in front. There I closed my eyes and concentrated on the 'sensation' of what I considered to be 'this entity's presence'. I did this for quite some time occasionally opening my eyes so that I could see the environment I was in and the situation I'd created. Eventually it was 'as if' the 'creature' was beginning to 'solidify' in the vicinity of the cushion opposite where I sat. I don't want to make too much of this -- it wasn't like I could "see" this entity with the same reality with which I had felt it. It was more 'amorphous' and more like I was 'imagining' it. And yet, there was a very 'charged' quality of energy in me and around me.

In any case, eventually I engaged in a kind of 'conversation' with this entity that was not vocalized so much as 'acted out' in my mind. It went something like this:

Q: Who are you?

A: You know.

Q: Are you from my father?

A: You know.

Q: What do you want?

A: Your life.

Q: Why?

A: Payment.

Q: Payment for what?

A: Ancient debt.

Q: You may not have my life. It is mine. I bid you be gone.

A: (slight derisive chuckle)

Q: No. You heard me. I bid you be gone. I shall give you no more attention.

With this I got up, blew out the candles and dismantled the situation. Since that time I do occasionally sense either that 'entity' in a milder form or the presence or some other minor 'entity' but it is rare and does not appear to be any significant threat.

Anyway, this is as close to "channeling" as I've ever come. What I can tell you, however, is that when one speaks in the work, if one is properly aligned, a connection is made and sometimes something comes through that is not of 'self'. You must understand there are reasons why I can not say much about this in relation to the work. None of us speak of it directly, or at least not that I know. But under special conditions, something can be known, seen, understood. We're talking about another level of intelligence. One of my purposes here is to reassure you of this fact -- not to alter your direction or interfere with your own connection about which I still have much to learn -- this 'learning' being my other primary aim.

By the way, I'm continuing to read further in the Wave Series and, indeed, it is fascinating!

Thank you. It's not perfect, and I've made corrections and additions and a very few deletions in the book version. And, the typos are mostly corrected. Back then, I didn't have anybody to edit me.

If I come across any more should I let you know?

It is difficult for me to fathom how well read you are in so many diverse subject areas. I know I've read more in my lifetime than all my ancestors all the way back to Adam but you have me beat a thousand fold. And, apparently, you can remember what you've read and keep track of it in a more or less encyclopedic way. Unfortunately my mind doesn't work that way at all and my ability to retain specifics varies widely.

Unfortunately, my mind does work that way. It's a blessing when I write, but a burden for living.

It is true for all of us each in our own way :P

Hope the electrical storm was not a problem for you.

Wasn't an electrical storm. We had 90 mph winds for about half the day... a veritable hurricane, though that's not what they call them in France. We lost over 15 trees, one of them coming down on our barn roof and it is now half destroyed. The only really rough period was when the wind was so strong that the back door would not stay closed and we had to barricade it with 50 lb bags of magnesium. We were without electricity for about 10 hours and cooked our dinner on the wood-burning stove in the kitchen (Salmon with herbs.)

It seems to have died down completely now, and we actually got a glimpse of the sun just as it was setting. And, fortunately, the satellite dish does not have to be re-set. But lord, what a lot of work we have to do! The tree that came down on the barn was an oak, probably over a hundred years old. It was as big around as 4 men standing bunched together.
<s>

That is sad. I love trees, especially OLD ones. I know these strong winds have happened before in France. I have a friend who 'was shown' something about the relationship between the Earth's core, the magnetosphere and weather. I'm not qualified to say much about it but what he was shown suggests our planetary weather is more driven by this relationship than solar activity (not that there is no connection to that). I may get him to join this forum. He is a fascinating person in his own right. Not in the G work. Not at all 'chatty' like me. Lived among the Native Americans and was (to his knowledge) the first white invited to become initiated into an Algonquin esoteric circle; which he declined. He felt unprepared and felt it was important for their circle not be polluted with his physicality (which is scandinavian in origin). He also spent a lot of time amidst Edgar Cayce's people in Virginia Beach and worked to bridge them with Hopi elders. This was some years ago. Anyway, he was shown something about the weather that seems not to be commonly understood (or only just now becoming so).

Anyway, here is my story:
<snip>

That is a GREAT story! I would say the universe was looking after you and sent you a clear message!

Well, it was hard to miss -- only it could have been interpreted any number of ways.

And measles the first time! How symbolic!

Ok, now that one I do NOT get -- what is up with measles? Clue please!

Added: See http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=11534 for the scoop on the storm.

Will look.

 

[PepperFritz]

He also spent a lot of time amidst the Casey people in Virginia Beach and worked to bridge them with Hopi elders.

I assume you mean Edgar Cayce's A.R.E. group, which is very interesting. Do you mean that he sought correlations between the Cayce material and Hopi prophecies, or got them to meet and cooperate in some way? Is there somewhere one could read about this on the web?

Anyway, he was shown something about the weather that seems not to be commonly understood (or only just now becoming so).

VERY interesting. Would you be able to tell us more about that?

 

[painter]

He also spent a lot of time amidst the Casey people in Virginia Beach and worked to bridge them with Hopi elders.

I assume you mean Edgar Cayce's A.R.E. group, which is very interesting.

Yes, forgive my laziness. I'm a horrible speller and didn't bother to look it up. I will correct the spelling in my post for accuracy.

Do you mean that he sought correlations between the Cayce material and Hopi prophecies, or got them to meet and cooperate in some way?

Yes, both, I think. He was with the NAs before finding A.R.E and I believed he facilitated a conference or a meeting. As I say, I'll try to get him to join this forum and you can ask him directly. It might take a while. For one thing he is getting ready to move out here and will be living with me temporarily when he does but even beyond that, as I say, he isn't "chatty" like me.

Is there somewhere one could read about this on the web?

If so I don't know about it but I will email him and ask.

Anyway, he was shown something about the weather that seems not to be commonly understood (or only just now becoming so).

VERY interesting. Would you be able to tell us more about that?

Not much. I'm an artist type so although I'm fascinated by physics and mathematics I don't have a firm grasp of many of the principals. Suffice it to say that what he was shown in a series of 'dreams' or 'visions' has something to do with the whole dynamic flow of energy related primarily to Earth's core. If you understand that the Earth's core is  spinning at a certain rate, that this rate is slightly at variance with the turning of the Earth's crust, that the pole upon which it turns is slightly out of alignment with that of the Earth, that the densities of magma from the core outward varies, is a "thixotropic" like material and that it needs to be understood as a substance having properties such as 'waves', 'currents', 'convections' and so on -- and there is some relationship both to human consciousness on this planet and also to the sun with all this -- you may begin to at least get some of the picture. I suggested to him some time ago that he publish this material but for whatever reason he has been reluctant to do so. Perhaps, now, he will begin to change his mind. I can not say.

I'm sure you can understand that we are bodies within bodies within bodies. My physical body is a vortex of varying densities of energy embedded within a much vaster system which is not only organic life on earth but the whole physical and electromagnetic body of the planet itself. Earth is a dynamo and as such it has a certain relationship to the Sun. all the planets do. If you look at them as long, spiraling time bodies in the 4th dimension rather than spheres merely in the third, it all begins to make a bit more sense.

What he was shown is that weather on this planet is more closely associated with the electromagnetic field of the planet. Vortices that we call 'highs' and 'lows' are caused by electromagnetic discharges -- similar to the kind of discharges we see in sun flares -- which spiral up and out, away from the planetary body curving in one direction -- and then down and in -- apparently curving in the opposite direction. Actually the vortex is always spiraling in the same direction but it appears to be different depending upon whether it is ascending or descending. Hopefully what I'm saying is roughly accurate and makes some sense.

Made several edits to text to hopefully make it more clear.

 

[webglider]

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When I went back and reread "Why You Don't Create Your Own Reality - an antidote to fatuous New Age paradigms" I realized that it was not the essay to which I meant to refer you.

I can't find that essay now, but perhaps someone on the forum can help me locate it. It's about how the increased presence of UFOs coupled with the perceived threat from a potentially organized, educated, and politcally aware youth movement was countered by the creation of "The New Age "

I would be interested to see it.

Webglider, perhaps you were referring to Aliens and Cosmic COINTELPRO?

Yes Pinkerton, this is exactly it. http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/cosmic_cointelpro.htm

Thank you.

 

[painter]

Webglider, perhaps you were referring to Aliens and Cosmic COINTELPRO?

Yes Pinkerton, this is exactly it. http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/cosmic_cointelpro.htm

Thank you.

Thank you for that. I have read it. I may have to read it several times, it is quite dense, especially the second half. But I'd like everyone here to understand that there isn't anything in it that I find "objectionable" or "personally challenging" (i.e., perceive as a threat to some 'belief' system I hold) or even particularly "far out there". On the contrary, it seems to echo much of my own search, thinking and attempt to understand our human condition.

As I searched through the literature in hundreds of fields of study, the chief thing that became apparent to me is that mankind is in the iron grip of an uncaring control system that raises him up and brings him low for its own mysterious purposes. No group, no nationality, no secret society or religion, is exempt.

I needed answers. I couldn’t live haunted daily by this grief for humanity and the many horrors of history. That was the motivation for the Cassiopaean experiment. Everything we are taught in our society, our history, our religions, and the new age versions of same, is all logically inconsistent and made a mockery of the very idea of a Creator - Ribbono Shel Olom - Master of the Universe. There was something strange and mysterious going on here on Earth, and I wanted to know the answers. And so I undertook the channeling experiment that resulted, after two years of dedicated work, in what is known as the Cassiopaean Transmissions from "Us in the future."

In spite of the fact that we hold an "open opinion" regarding the source of this material, the answers we received from the Cassiopaeans - us in the future - were intriguing, to say the least. The closest analogy to the view of reality presented by the Cassiopaeans is graphically explicated in the movie, The Matrix, wherein our reality is presented as a computer program/dream that “stores” human beings in “pods” so that they are batteries producing energy for some vast machine dominating the world. Certain programmed life-scenarios of great emotional content were designed in order to produce the most “energy” for this machine. And it seems that pain and suffering are the “richest” in terms of “juice.”

I haven't much time today but I'll simply note that during a facilitated deep regression in 1972, I had an impression of "myself" prior to birth entering Earth's atmosphere. It is difficult to find the right words to express what was observed and experienced except to say that the overwhelming perception was of a world filled with deep pain and suffering. Clearly it is a form of energy, 'materiality'.

 

[RedFox]

Hi Painter

In 1986 I had a series of 'dreams' one of which I will tell you in detail. I woke up with the sensation of a 'reptilian like tree sloth' on my back. I was lying face down on my bed and I could feel the weight of this creature -- about three feet long -- pressing down and could feel its talons biting into my skin on my shoulders and lower back just above my hips. It was completely motionless and seemed to be indicating that if I moved even one iota, it would (you'll love this) DEVOUR me! This sensation and awareness was so shocking to me that my heart was racing and my body was filled with adrenalin. I was terrified! My god, this can't be happening! This is unreal! There is something ON ME!! On my BACK! Holy S*t what am I going to do?? The hard thing to impress upon people when I tell this story is how PHYSICAL the sensation was. It was as real to me as I am to myself right now. I knew where I was, who I was, what was going on -- in every respect I was completely awake in my ordinary state -- but there was this SENSATION of a physical entity clawing into my back, almost daring me to react. So, to communicate this, I usually go around to the back of the person I'm telling this to and dig my fingers into their shoulders in precisely the same way these "talons" were digging into me. Invariably it creeps them out!

Now as this was taking place another part of my mind was saying, "THIS IS NUTS! This can't be happening!" but the sensation was so palpably real my entire autonomic fright/flight system was in full force. But as I gave more weight of attention to this "this can't be real" thought I could sense that the "creature" was beginning to dissolve. It was very subtle at first but then the pace of disillusion increased and within a matter of a few moments the physical sensation of its presence had completely dissolved from my consciousness. My heart was still beating rapidly and I was in a state of hyper awareness but in due course I gathered up the courage to begin to move, to roll over onto my back and begin to think, WTF??!! Interestingly I could still 'sense' in some way a 'presence' -- and this did NOT go away.

I got up and went about my day but I began to realize that this 'presence' was still lurking around -- that, in fact, it had been lurking around possibly all my life. This was very 'weird'.

fwiw, I posted about my own experiences of something very similar here http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=8736.0
I never identified at a reptilian presence (more of just a spherical entity), but appart from that several of the things you mention fit almost identically.
The motionless of the entity, and threat of distruction if you should move.
That it seems to have an almost physical presence.
The triggering of the flight or fight responce (and a huge amount of adrenaline/cold fear).
The sense of it hanging around afterwards.

If anything, it nice to know after all these years that its not just me that sort of thing happens to.

I do however remember reasonably clearly when it was introduced into my life, but as not to hijack this thread further I will go post at the end of the thread I've linked too.

 

[Laura]

Well, I hope that's a good thing. I like talking about Gurdjieff. Heck, I love him.

Me too. I've often wished I could have been in his presence but given my subjectivity, I'm not sure I could have tolerated it.

I've wondered the same myself.

<snip>
Later, I even had dreams about him giving me comfort and advice when I faced a difficult situation that required careful handling. He also gave me courage to be firm when needed. I also realized, in a startling way, based on his description and experiences, that what we were doing - what the whole Cs thing was about - was a 4th Way work. Our aim is not exactly the same as his - but it is close.

I'm still trying to understand all this, of course. From my readings so far I think I have some sense of your aim, having to do with choice of orientation.

The phrase "valiant surrender" just appeared.

Actually, no. If you consider what I wrote in "Stripped to the Bone," you'll see that it describes "The First Initiation" as written by Madame de Salzmann, though in a slightly different context. I hadn't read her essay at the time that those events (and many other really miraculous things) were happening and I think I actually read it after my husband pointed it out to me some time later. Heck, if I'd been aware of that great piece, I would have quoted it!

<snip> At some point after the sermon the more 'enthusiastic' part of the service began with various members of the congregation getting whipped up into speaking in tongues waving their hands about and what have you -- all of which had, to me, the appearance of 'aping', 'acting' and 'make believe'. That is not to say genuine 'enthusiasm' doesn't exist. I'm sure it does. But there was nothing sincere in what I saw around me that day. However, there was an energy in the room, a palpable presence, perhaps more than one. Clearly something was going on. To be honest, it gave me the creeps -- and I'm sure you understand why, possibly even more than I do.

Well, relating to that, you might enjoy two posts I worked on today:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=11545

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=11550

They are the same up to a point. The second one is longer and includes things that weren't necessary to the first.

Yes, and actually, the Cs communication is a "practice" too. It requires a particular kind of focus and awareness that is totally unique.

I had already begun to suspect as much. I've never 'tried' 'channeling' (or whatever you wan to call it, except once, which I'll get to directly) -- not because I think it is 'bunk' but exactly the opposite. It is potentially dangerous.

Yes, it can be dangerous. The problem is, a lot of people are doing it exactly the wrong way - and most of them carry on like banshees about the way I do it! I'm in the process of making a series of videos about it.

In 1986 I had a series of 'dreams' one of which I will tell you in detail. I woke up with the sensation of a 'reptilian like tree sloth' on my back. I was lying face down on my bed and I could feel the weight of this creature -- about three feet long -- pressing down and could feel its talons biting into my skin on my shoulders and lower back just above my hips. It was completely motionless and seemed to be indicating that if I moved even one iota, it would (you'll love this) DEVOUR me! This sensation and awareness was so shocking to me that my heart was racing and my body was filled with adrenalin. I was terrified! My god, this can't be happening! This is unreal! There is something ON ME!! On my BACK! Holy S*t what am I going to do?? The hard thing to impress upon people when I tell this story is how PHYSICAL the sensation was. It was as real to me as I am to myself right now. I knew where I was, who I was, what was going on -- in every respect I was completely awake in my ordinary state -- but there was this SENSATION of a physical entity clawing into my back, almost daring me to react. So, to communicate this, I usually go around to the back of the person I'm telling this to and dig my fingers into their shoulders in precisely the same way these "talons" were digging into me. Invariably it creeps them out!

That's not a terribly unusual experience.

Now as this was taking place another part of my mind was saying, "THIS IS NUTS! This can't be happening!" but the sensation was so palpably real my entire autonomic fright/flight system was in full force. But as I gave more weight of attention to this "this can't be real" thought I could sense that the "creature" was beginning to dissolve. It was very subtle at first but then the pace of disillusion increased and within a matter of a few moments the physical sensation of its presence had completely dissolved from my consciousness. My heart was still beating rapidly and I was in a state of hyper awareness but in due course I gathered up the courage to begin to move, to roll over onto my back and begin to think, WTF??!! Interestingly I could still 'sense' in some way a 'presence' -- and this did NOT go away.

That's part of the problem. I am aware that stuff like this is "there" all the time only people don't know it. Your awareness has to be "jacked up" a bit to become aware and one needs to be aware in order to take prophylactic action. It's like channeling. People think that if you use a spirit board type of thing that it can be "possessed" and bring on possession or whatever. They don't realize that all it does is give a communication medium to what is ALREADY THERE. If they had a clue about what they were doing, they could then use this awareness to do a little "parasite cleanse."

I got up and went about my day but I began to realize that this 'presence' was still lurking around -- that, in fact, it had been lurking around possibly all my life. This was very 'weird'.

Yup. SOP for such critters. They are there, but it takes awareness to know they are there! And it takes knowing they are there and what to do about it to get rid of them.

I no longer remember the exact chronology of events but I do recall that about this time I came EXTREMELY close to being involved in what could have been a fatal accident. I had been driving on the freeway along what was then the lower deck of "the cypress structure" -- which collapsed during the 1989 earthquake here killing many people. I was attempting to pass a large flat-bed semi truck loaded with iron pipes on his right side, in the 'slow' lane up against the walled edge of the freeway. Suddenly, this truck decides to move into my lane! He's closing in on me apparently unaware that me and my little Nissan pick-up truck are there at all! I start honking my horn and gun it and manage to get out from between him and the wall but not before his front bumper scraped the hell out of the back, left side of my truck. WHOA!

That is also par for the course. I have heard thousands of stories similar in dynamics. Very often, people suddenly start becoming aware this way when they read The Wave. Some of them panic and think that the reading is what is "bringing them in," and don't realize that it is what is raising their awareness so that they know what has always been there. So they want to hurriedly go back to sleep because it is way too disturbing to contemplate an "other reality" that is not just full of guardian angels and love and light and so on. But, as William Chittick, translator of the works of the great Sufi Shaykh, Ibn al-’Arabi, wrote:

Nowadays most people interested in the spirituality of the East desire the “experience,” though they may call what they are after intimate communion with God. Those familiar with the standards and norms of spiritual experience set down by disciplined paths like Sufism are usually appalled at the way Westerners seize upon any apparition from the domain outside of normal consciousness as a manifestation of the “spiritual.” In fact, there are innumerable realms in the unseen world, some of them far more dangerous than the worst jungles of the visible world.

So preserve yourselves, my brothers, from the calamities of this place, for distinguishing it is extremely difficult! Souls find it sweet, and then within it they are duped, since they become completely enamored of it.

SOMEHOW I got it into my head that I needed to "speak" with this entity, find out what it wanted.

Not a bad conclusion.

So, without any guidance other than my own intuition I arranged a "seance" situation. I live in an artists loft so I had a lot of room to do this. I had a round mirror -- about 40 inches in diameter -- so, one evening, I put it on the floor and around it I placed 9 large candles evenly spaced. I sat on a cushion at between two candles along one edge and placed another cushion 180° opposite me with a candle directly in front. There I closed my eyes and concentrated on the 'sensation' of what I considered to be 'this entity's presence'. I did this for quite some time occasionally opening my eyes so that I could see the environment I was in and the situation I'd created. Eventually it was 'as if' the 'creature' was beginning to 'solidify' in the vicinity of the cushion opposite where I sat. I don't want to make too much of this -- it wasn't like I could "see" this entity with the same reality with which I had felt it. It was more 'amorphous' and more like I was 'imagining' it. And yet, there was a very 'charged' quality of energy in me and around me.

Well, you are braver than I am! I certainly wouldn't have done that! I've told plenty of people that if the table starts moving when I chat with the Cs, I'm outta there!

In any case, eventually I engaged in a kind of 'conversation' with this entity that was not vocalized so much as 'acted out' in my mind. It went something like this:

Q: Who are you?

A: You know.

Q: Are you from my father?

A: You know.

Q: What do you want?

A: Your life.

Q: Why?

A: Payment.

Q: Payment for what?

A: Ancient debt.

Q: You may not have my life. It is mine. I bid you be gone.

A: (slight derisive chuckle)

Q: No. You heard me. I bid you be gone. I shall give you no more attention.

With this I got up, blew out the candles and dismantled the situation. Since that time I do occasionally sense either that 'entity' in a milder form or the presence or some other minor 'entity' but it is rare and does not appear to be any significant threat.

Well, that's a fairly mild form of an exorcism. There are far more effective ways of dealing with this sort of thing and that's the topic of the video I'll be making in a couple of days. There is a pretty set technique for doing a differential diagnosis that gets you the information you need so as to know how to proceed. This could be nothing more than a spirit attachment. What type it is and what, exactly, needs to be done to remove it depends on the diagnosis.

Anyway, this is as close to "channeling" as I've ever come.

It is a form of channeling - the dangerous kind that most of the New Age is into. You were lucky, that could have gone very badly. And don't rely on rituals to protect you - they don't.

What I can tell you, however, is that when one speaks in the work, if one is properly aligned, a connection is made and sometimes something comes through that is not of 'self'. You must understand there are reasons why I can not say much about this in relation to the work. None of us speak of it directly, or at least not that I know. But under special conditions, something can be known, seen, understood. We're talking about another level of intelligence. One of my purposes here is to reassure you of this fact -- not to alter your direction or interfere with your own connection about which I still have much to learn -- this 'learning' being my other primary aim.

Not to worry, I have a pretty good handle on that sort of thing. I'm not the "world's living expert," but I've been doing hypnotherapy, spirit release therapy, exorcisms, etc, for over 25 years.

]

Anyway, here is my story:
<snip>

That is a GREAT story! I would say the universe was looking after you and sent you a clear message!

Well, it was hard to miss -- only it could have been interpreted any number of ways.

And measles the first time! How symbolic!

Ok, now that one I do NOT get -- what is up with measles? Clue please!

The body speaks to us in amazing ways. For example, people who get kidney or bladder infections are generally expressing with their body that they are "pissed off." Louise Hay wrote a great little book about this called "Heal Your Body" which is a list of diseases or symptoms and the probable psychic/psychological cause. I keep a copy on my desk and have for years, to refer to whenever anyone mentions that they are ill. You would be amazed at what a great clue system it is to what is really going on with people. It is also MOST helpful in sorting out your own stuff. Since we tend to be so subjective, it is a way around the "blind spot in the mind."

She doesn't list measles, but what came to my mind was the saying "I need that like I need a case of measles." Your body was speaking loud and clear.

 

[Saman]

Was it said somewhere that "all things have a soul" or something
to that effect? This is one area where I am a bit confused.

FWIW, and based on what I remember from the Wave series, our consciousness is supposed to operate on four levels: the physical body, the genetic body, the etheric/spirit body, and consciousness/soul. So perhaps all things in existence DO essentially have a soul, but since not all things in existence are on the same level and path of "soul evolution" (half of things are on the path of "Involution" and half on the path of "Evolution"), then not all things in existence within this "current" Grand Cycle have the potential (or say the Open "blue print"/role/destiny) to access (or say to be able to learn to discover/"play"/"orchestrate") all of the four bodies as "potentially fully souled" entities/things.

So in 'conclusion', I think it might be correct to say that all things have "spirit", but not all things have "individuated soul" due to only some things having the potential to fully "grow" one as a "service" to the "Prime Creator" in this "current" Grand Cycle, while other things are not needed to have this potential "individuation" to play their role for the balance of All that IS, or so I think.

 

[Juba]

Great subject: The Cs and Gurdjieff, I mean the C's (6D STO) and ONE although GREAT human being (3D STS (as we all are)) but with great ideas, splendid mind, a bit provocative and shocking on first reading but revolutionary and enlightening (and still is, same as Laura's work, kudos), but you know reading both of them make you see so many tangents between them, no matter of colossal differences in densities between both of them, they are so obvious:
1-Encouraging learning process
2-Encouraging awareness of all things at hand seen and unseen and it's mutual influences
3-No compromises between the truth and that what we would like to sound as a truth
4-Breaking boundaries in people minds and pushing HOT buttons for decoding of our density
5-Encouraging forums and meditations
6-Exclusion of person cult or idolization
7-Immense energy
can go like this for hours, if we look other "SOURCES" with assistance with these parametres, everything becomes Christal clear.

:)