Thor
Jedi Council Member
RedFox said:For me it's always been about external validation of my self worth - my right to exist and have needs being something that was somehow the responsibility of others.
I'd burn myself out anticipating other peoples needs (without asking) and then feel empty that they didn't anticipate mine (without communicating or even realising I had any).
Point 2 above also tied into a deep fear that I was somehow fundamentally broken and not worthy of anything let alone being liked by even just one women (a relationship just seemed like something from another universe I didn't inhabit). When I did end up in a relationship I clung on to it with all my strength and poured all the resources I had into it/her.
I would always try harder, and it was some time after hitting burnout/the end of the relationship that the feeling of failure and 'should have tried harder' started to fade enough to be questioned.
This thread seems to be the final full stop to that I hope.
RedFox,
What you describe here is very spot on in describing what was for many years a driving motivator for my interaction with women and also friends and other people.
I think this is a very interesting topic. The following are some of my thoughts on it.
FWIW, I see it, as a question of personal responsibility and free will. Whatever situation people find themselves in, that situation has a cause and a potential for learning. It is the responsibility of the person to apply their free will to change the situation that we might want to save them from. Asking for help is one option and if someone asks you for help you should use your free will to decide if the help is something that you will provide. This is often the tricky part because many people will rather be "saved" than take responsibility for their own life - it's easier, faster and does often not require that people make a truthful assessment of their life and own up to the responsibility. And often, if the person is a rescuee-type, they may become mad at you for not helping when, according to their own perspective, they're obviously in need of help.
Also, if you're an emphatic person it's actively unpleasant to witness another person in distress or pain and there's a natural inclination to want to remove that pain. However, I'm not always sure whether the motive is to remove the pain in yourself from witnessing it in the other person or to remove the pain from the other person without thought for yourself. But as mentioned elsewhere in this thread you are free to offer the to help the other person. And again it's a good idea to be aware of the motive for offering the help but as long as the wish to help is sincere I don't think it can be bad to offer to support or help.
I was a marijuana addict for a number of years and through working with a 12-step program haven't needed to get high for seven years. In the 12-step programs there's a strong focus on addiction but also on co-dependency and one of the main take-aways is that you can't ever make someone else stop drinking/using or to put it in other words, you can't ever fix someone else's problem. The responsibility to stop what is bad for you is your own and you have to apply your own free will or it won't work. I personally think this is a very good illustration of the principle but it doesn't have to be a substance addiction - it applies equally to a psychological addiction, such as the White Knight Syndrome.
The problem is that when someone pushes that button that correlates to your deepest sense of lack and you unconsciously and automatically believe that by helping the person, that sense of lack will (miraculously...) go away. In such situations it's so difficult to remain aware. However, I've found that I recognise the dynamic being activated faster and faster and sometimes I can even catch myself and stop myself from reacting automatically. But it's like one down - five million to go :).
Where I do think it makes sense to make a distinction is if the person is not in a situation where they can be said to be responsible for their own lives or actions. Children, mentally ill or elderly people suffering from senile dementia, Alzheimers, etc. need people to make choices for them.