The Endless Mystery of Existence Itself

That's more or less my thinking too. I mean, how many times have you brushed your teeth? Is the experience the same very time? You know how to cook a steak, but is the experience the same every time? Are YOU the same every time? Granted, given enough time (i.e. limitless) you could claim that every possible way to brush your teeth (including changes in your teeth etc.) has already been experienced, including all the different personal subjective perspectives when doing so. But, given an unlimited amount of time, surely that includes room for new experiences of such?

Anyway, my brain hurts already, so I ain't going any further!

Yes, and this becomes even more apparent with bigger lessons, such as "how to be STO", "what is the nature of love", "what is gravity" etc. An infinite number of paths to get there, and somehow the experience of "getting there" seems as important, if not more so, than the final act of getting there.
 
But, given an unlimited amount of time, surely that includes room for new experiences of such?
Could be. In true infinity there is always more of everything, never stopping, maybe including new experiences?

On the other hand, could existence itself be limited by some kind of range of what it can experience or is that range unlimited as well?

And why does existence want to experience anything at all, lol. Unless it is changed by the experiences somehow.

Exactly! What if all possible experiences have already been had, but then someone hits the 'delete' button. Then what? But maybe that has also been done an infinite number of times? You see the problem here!
Endlessly repeated forgetting to have endless new experiences. Elegant solution indeed! But still, the question remains what is the purpose of having endless new experiences? The answer may well be that there is no purpose, "it just is what it is".
 
Exactly! What if all possible experiences have already been had, but then someone hits the 'delete' button. Then what? But maybe that has also been done an infinite number of times? You see the problem here!
Some structure has to 'outlive' all that could ever happen. If not, there wouldn't be anything to 'restart' the cycle. It's like a lab that can sustain all kinds of explosions (including errors, malevolence, etc) and still remain functional for the next experiment.
 
The problem is that the concept of "infinite" also implies the ability to create something new. It's a paradox, which usually happens with these questions, at least when we try to understand them. When we run into a paradox, it usually means we're thinking about something in the wrong terms, or we lack the ability to think about them in the correct terms, at least for now.

I was actually thinking about this last night. It seems that the idea of learning lessons is at odds with the idea of all things already having happened or having been experienced.
Free will could be an answer and a purpose to existence itself, meaning that there is flexibility at the core of conscious life patterns, allowing renewal, opening to the unexpected and, may be, being related to the very essence of the DCM
 
Another fascinating topic!!...
The idea of infinity has been in my thoughts my whole life. As a small child I remember laying outside at night on many different occasions staring up at the stars and space and wondering what was going on up there. Did it go on forever or were we (our universe) enclosed in some sort of box or bubble? And if that was true then what was on the other side of that box or bubble?

I can remember many times as a teenager staring intensely at my eyes in the mirror and asking myself, "Who am I?" and "Why am I here?"
Well I think I've come a long way since then but existing in this 3rd density state begs an awful lot of questions.

There are two things I've been wondering a lot about lately. It has been said that "All is One and One is All. If this is true and there are an infinite number of universes out there, are we a part or connected to all that there is as in all other universes? Do we or can we experience existence in different universes other than our own?

If there is no time (except for us here) and if infinity (as meaning goes on forever) is cyclical, does that mean that if or when we make it to 7th density that eventually we have to start the whole process over again starting at the bottom of the ladder and working our way back up through the densities to 7th again?

I somehow can't see or find or feel the beauty in that scenario. I'm sure I have a lot of thinking errors on this subject. And I realize we are not meant to even try to know things that we are not able to understand in this density, therefore no short cuts. However a few short cuts sound very appealing at this point....ha ha....I guess as the C's like to say.....Wait and see.
 
Does this analysis include the simultaneous multi universe hypothesis or just one unique universe at one instance repeated infinitely.
It has been said that "All is One and One is All. If this is true and there are an infinite number of universes out there, are we a part or connected to all that there is as in all other universes? Do we or can we experience existence in different universes other than our own?
The C's say that the whole multiverse is a part of "All is One and One is All".

Though some mystics like Gurdjieff and Theun Mares hinted that there may be something like a higher or deeper type of existence that goes even beyond "our" Prime Creator. I wrote about that before:

I think there is a good chance that there is a 'higher level of existence' and that there may be other "Absolutes"/Creators besides ours.

What Gurdjieff described (and what Oxajil analyzed in this thread) implies that our Absolute was faced with a force (a sort of "time") that diminished the original Sun-Absolute, which led to the creation of our multiverse as a necessity. This also implies that our Creator/Absolute was faced with something beyond his control, this force of "time".

There is also a clue towards a 'higher level of existence' that is "above" our Creator/Absolute in what according to Theun Mares the Toltec seers have seen about our Creator. Namely, that our Creator/Absolute appears not to be alone. One possible implication of this is again that there are other Creators/Absolutes besides ours.

The two books I am referencing are: Gurdjieff - "Beelzebulb's Tales To His Grandson" and Theun Mares - "Cry of the Eagle"

This is of course a topic that is close to what is unknowable to us as 3D humans. Though maybe not completely.

Though ultimately, even if there are other Prime Creators for other multiverses, this would just put in an additional layer between us and the most fundamental layer of existence beyond our Prime Creator. The questions about existence itself still remain the same.
 
There’s a good case to be made for existence coming out of non-existence, at least how we can know it – stuff that’s tangible, objects, time, and space, and all that – that there’s something that decided for it to come into being. It’s either that or it’s just random and it just popped out of nothing, ever existing all on its own with nothing triggering it. That latter one seems the least coherent. So there’s a decision, and it’s no small feat following through, all this complexity, life, evolution, the fact that we’re here debating this, trying to wind back the clock – points to the awe of this task. So, if we think for a second that the one deciding all this is a non-thinking blob, an imbecile, we’re more likely that imbecile. There’s a profound type of intelligence needed to pull that one off! So how does it get pulled off?

To start with, it’s not like this being had all the stuff in a bag somewhere, like a cosmic Lego set, and just meticulously placing one bit together onto other bits while sitting in a cosmic sandpit. There’s no other material around for that when it’s all nothingness, as we’ve laid out before. So, it’s all in this being’s head – so to speak - by the same logic it also doesn’t have a head. It’s all mind or awareness itself. In that realm, with no-limit awareness, all possibilities as to what one might dream up is on the table. And that ability to dream up stuff, an imagination is the closest thing to what we see in ourselves, to simulate something from nothing, for whatever reason we’d like. It could be processing the garbage we push down during the day, it could be to figure things out – you know, like a trial run in our minds, or even a computer can do simulation - say a AI program running crypto investment simulations on how we’re gonna become the next Bitcoin billionaire. Not conflating human imagination with AI btw, just making this point - there’s a reason behind the dream or the simulation, or whatever we want to call it.

But no good simulation will work without parameters. It can’t have none, that’s a useless simulation. There’s stuff that can or can’t happen. So, our Bitcoin simulation can’t have a billion Bitcoins magically appearing in our simulated wallet every time someone says “Beetlejuice” three times. Again, what’s the point of wasting processing power on that? In a cosmic mind, the law of conservation possibly applies too, and even the “has no limit” simulation is a parameter itself. So, there are rules.

One rule here is there’s some kind of order or progression – something happens, it’s recorded as happening before the next thing, then that happens. Like was discussed above. There’s a before and after, and a physical signature. That’s time and space/matter. Now let’s get to this sticking point about time. The simulation came into being, so while by definition, it exists in a time-based medium, inside this simulation, time as we know it is not exactly linked. It’s like a fairy tale that starts with “once upon a time” – but story itself, the one we’re all created by, can simply have an embedded design that time will appear as if it’s always been around forever. Or that space just goes on and on. So, in this simulation, if one of us could travel trillions of galaxies in one direction, we might never get to an edge – there’s no crazy waterfall at the edge of the universe, it just goes on and on and on.

So that’s the hat trick; we won’t know one way or another when we’re inside this dream if things always were and will be or not. We can ponder infinity for the “infinity” designed in this dream, and we’ll come out none the wiser!

But there’s plenty of practicalities to deduce – for example there are parameters / rules of the game. That’s kind of the number 1 deduction – we have rules: it doesn’t matter if you’re just discovered a Larken Rose YouTube video on the merits of anarchism – there are rules to our existence, and there’s no getting around it!

Which brings us to another deduction, number 2 – rules are worth figuring out: If we’re subject to these rules, they’re worth learning. If we don’t know the rules of the game, we’re not getting any gold stars! We’re just gonna keep trying to do things we can’t, like banging our heads against a concrete wall to get to the other side. It’s a sure way to have a pounding headache!

This leads us to a deduction 3 – if it’s worth it for us to learn the rules, it’s worth it for others too. If we think the game is just for us, that we’re the centre of the universe, it isn’t useful. We go down all kinds of dead ends, often an institutionalized one. There’s no lack of folks thinking they’re the second coming of Christ locked up in a padded cell. Have you tried to argue with someone with a god-complex? Bashing your head against that wall might even be more enjoyable.

So there’s a whole host of pragmatic deductions that follow from those too:

- Don’t stop learning – this is what happens when we imagine there are no rules or they aren’t worth figuring out. We’ve got free will to learn; obviously, we can’t be forced to learn, so we’ve got to nourish our free will by continuing to learn and always improving the quality of how we learn along the way.

- Don’t be a c* ** – this happens when we reckon that our learning, our accumulating knowledge and stuff, is all that matters. This is when we don’t give a s*** about anyone else’s free will. We just go around making life and learning harder for everyone else. Maybe we can show that imbecile bashing his head against the wall where the door is? This is what happens with those means-to an-end arguments, self justification for some idea of “good” which underneath is what’s “good” for me / STS

- Don’t limit learning – we do this by trying to control learning to suit ourselves. There’s information in everything and everyone – life is full of rich information. When we go around smashing information, keeping it for ourselves, distorting it, etc., we’re f****** things up for everyone. Going around ripping up rainforests for no good reason, bombing countries even squashing an insect, just because we feel like it - is the same – killing life, killing information, removing access to learning from ourselves and all others.

Anyway hope my rambling adds something to this discussion!
 
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There’s a good case to be made for existence coming out of non-existence, at least how we can know it – stuff that’s tangible, objects, time, and space, and all that – that there’s something that decided for it to come into being.
The material world is not what is referred to here as existence. Time and space and physicality are more or less illusions and the only thing that is real are the units of consciousness observing physicality at every possible level.

Consciousness seems to be the origin of the physical illusion. Existence at the most fundamental level, from which all originates, seems to be a kind of consciousness or pure beingness.

The questions here are about that fundamental level of consciousness or pure existence beyond time and space. Does it have an origin or has there "always" been existence? If it has always existed, it may imply that all possible variations of experiences have already been experienced, maybe an infinite number of times. And this brings up the question what the purpose (if any) of existence itself might be.
 
And, is it not possible, that in all these wonderful inquiries, they are from a limited, restrictive, constrictive set of (consciousness)skills based in 3rd/moving in to 4th, sts/(“hopefully”) moving in to sto, and that, evolving in to full blown 4d (“hopefully”) sto that we shall perceive these inquiries very differently? Let alone as perceived from 6th. (#24 from @axj just posted as this was written)
 
And, is it not possible, that in all these wonderful inquiries, they are from a limited, restrictive, constrictive set of (consciousness)skills based in 3rd/moving in to 4th, sts/(“hopefully”) moving in to sto, and that, evolving in to full blown 4d (“hopefully”) sto that we shall perceive these inquiries very differently? Let alone as perceived from 6th.
Of course, and some or all of these questions may be unanswerable for us (what the Toltecs call the Unknowable, as opposed to the Unknown).

But we may also have more potential skills than we realize even while experiencing the 3D illusion:

December 12, 1995

A: The point is: stop filling your consciousness with monotheistic philosophies planted long ago to imprison your being. Can't you see it by now, after all you have learned, that there is no source, there is no leader, there is no basis, there is no overseer, etc... You literally possess, within your consciousness profile, all the power that exists within all of creation!?! You absolutely have all that exists, ever has, or ever will, contained within your mind. All you have to do is learn how to use it, and at that moment, you will literally, literally, be all that is, was, and ever will be!!!!!!!!
 
I lean towards the idea that consciousness was always here/there.
What if in some point in "time" the consciousness becomes aware of herself/himself and decide to create all levels of beeing that can experience through every single point of view imaginable. Just for the purpose of learning and experience.
What if the consciousness who was always here doesn't know who she is but know that "just is".
And what if this is ongoing process that never stops and consciousness who was always here just add experiences from all different angles imaginable in infinitum. And learning different perspectives. Forever...
Endless cycle after cycle after cycle.
Never actually know who she is but always add new perspectives knowledge and understanding of "different " point of views.
I know that is a stretch but that’s all that my brain can come about.
 
The material world is not what is referred to here as existence. Time and space and physicality are more or less illusions and the only thing that is real are the units of consciousness observing physicality at every possible level.

Consciousness seems to be the origin of the physical illusion. Existence at the most fundamental level, from which all originates, seems to be a kind of consciousness or pure beingness.

The questions here are about that fundamental level of consciousness or pure existence beyond time and space. Does it have an origin or has there "always" been existence? If it has always existed, it may imply that all possible variations of experiences have already been experienced, maybe an infinite number of times. And this brings up the question what the purpose (if any) of existence itself might be.

Okay, so we're starting with the premise that consciousness exists. So the question—if consciousness always existed—leaves the alternative that it came from nothing. If there was nothing that we suppose it came from, this "nothing" never existed, so it's kind of a moot point, or a question that answers itself.

And then why does it exist? For that, we've got to land on what it means to exist. How do you define existence when you've got no time and space? We could put it another way—how does consciousness exist without that? Does it even?

Let's say we can't figure out how it could because we're all in this reality and can't pretend to know what it's like being outside of it. We might then take the leap to say that the relationship between consciousness and what you're calling the material world is an interdependent one—maybe like water. Water doesn't exist without hydrogen and oxygen doing its thing.

We break those bonds, there's no more water. We remove the material world from consciousness or vice versa, and there's no existence. So existence, that magic trick, doesn't get realized without this unavoidable bond.

Then we might say the underlying purpose for creating these material realities, or whatever they are, is to actually have consciousness itself be/exist/continue on. So you can extrapolate all kinds of stuff from that:

Reason one: To exist, we (consciousness) need the material world.
Reason two: Consciousness needs to observe itself in the material world to know it exists.
Reason three: Consciousness needs to see itself in all its diverse possibilities to know itself fully.
Reason four: To know itself fully, it needs all weird and wonderful experiences that time and space provide
Reason five: To have experiences it needs all possible “angles” and all kinds of agents across all kinds of consciousness spectrums
Reason six: To have all kinds of consciousness spectrums, it need to have experiences from next to none awareness to having lots and lots of it (including all of it)
And so on...
But in the end, what does this help us with? I think that's what matters, and hence the practical stuff I mentioned earlier
 
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And then why does it exist? For that, we've got to land on what it means to exist. How do you define existence when you've got no time and space? We could put it another way—how does consciousness exist without that? Does it even?
There is no time and space (as we know it) in 5D and 6D, according to the C's. And considering that consciousness is the origin of the illusion of physicality, it can certainly exist without the illusion of physicality too. Consciousness or beingness is the only thing that is actually real "within" physicality and goes beyond physicality as well.

Let's say we can't figure out how it could because we're all in this reality and can't pretend to know what it's like being outside of it.
Well, in some ways we can experience beyond physicality by focusing our consciousness on itself or on our own 'pure beingness'. It is one of the most important kinds of meditation or spiritual practices, basically what Gurdjieff called Self-Remembering.
 
There is no time and space (as we know it) in 5D and 6D, according to the C's. And considering that consciousness is the origin of the illusion of physicality, it can certainly exist without the illusion of physicality too. Consciousness or beingness is the only thing that is actually real "within" physicality and goes beyond physicality as well.
"As we know it" is the key point here. The basis of the physical, or whatever we call it, is time, space, and stuff. It may not be as we know it, for sure.

We've got to ask, is there consciousness when there's nothing to be conscious of? When you think about a flying pink elephant, you're conscious of a few things: this imagined thing, your relationship to it (it being there, you being here), then the awareness that you're imagining it.

Is there any kind of function of imagining without a before and after? That flying pink elephant might fly off into the recesses of your unconscious - still needs the event, the past, the now, and the potential future.

Well, in some ways we can experience beyond physicality by focusing our consciousness on itself or on our own 'pure beingness'. It is one of the most important kinds of meditation or spiritual practices, basically what Gurdjieff called Self-Remembering.

Sure, instead of the pink flying elephant, focusing on you—a reflection implies two positions at least: the one doing the reflecting and the reflection. That's our basic self-awareness. We see ourselves as having consciousness and, for that, require a separate vantage point, an objective view, a mirror or simulation of ourselves if you will - conceptual or otherwise. So again, there are relative positions (space) and the event (time).

So, no matter which way you look at it, for consciousness to exist, it depends on a kind of time and space, with real or conceptual all blurry, so yes, just not as we know it. But our own experiences can infer it.
 

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