The Evolutionary Argument Against Reality

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
from: https://www.quantamagazine.org/20160421-the-evolutionary-argument-against-reality/

An interesting article that explains how what we see very well may not be real. Of course we think we see reality because we aren't walking or driving into trees. But, what he sees is really amazing and makes me wonder about how the C's said the veil will be lifted after we go through the valley of the shadow.

I am also reminded of the split brain experiments which show that the brain can lie to itself to explain what is unknown, pretty much a mechanical aspect of the conscious mind to keep "sane" by being quite insane!



By Amanda Gefter
April 21, 2016
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As we go about our daily lives, we tend to assume that our perceptions — sights, sounds, textures, tastes — are an accurate portrayal of the real world. Sure, when we stop and think about it — or when we find ourselves fooled by a perceptual illusion — we realize with a jolt that what we perceive is never the world directly, but rather our brain’s best guess at what that world is like, a kind of internal simulation of an external reality. Still, we bank on the fact that our simulation is a reasonably decent one. If it wasn’t, wouldn’t evolution have weeded us out by now? The true reality might be forever beyond our reach, but surely our senses give us at least an inkling of what it’s really like.

Not so, says Donald D. Hoffman, a professor of cognitive science at the University of California, Irvine. Hoffman has spent the past three decades studying perception, artificial intelligence, evolutionary game theory and the brain, and his conclusion is a dramatic one: The world presented to us by our perceptions is nothing like reality. What’s more, he says, we have evolution itself to thank for this magnificent illusion, as it maximizes evolutionary fitness by driving truth to extinction.

Getting at questions about the nature of reality, and disentangling the observer from the observed, is an endeavor that straddles the boundaries of neuroscience and fundamental physics. On one side you’ll find researchers scratching their chins raw trying to understand how a three-pound lump of gray matter obeying nothing more than the ordinary laws of physics can give rise to first-person conscious experience. This is the aptly named “hard problem.”

On the other side are quantum physicists, marveling at the strange fact that quantum systems don’t seem to be definite objects localized in space until we come along to observe them — whether we are conscious humans or inanimate measuring devices. Experiment after experiment has shown — defying common sense — that if we assume that the particles that make up ordinary objects have an objective, observer-independent existence, we get the wrong answers. The central lesson of quantum physics is clear: There are no public objects sitting out there in some preexisting space. As the physicist John Wheeler put it, “Useful as it is under ordinary circumstances to say that the world exists ‘out there’ independent of us, that view can no longer be upheld.”

So while neuroscientists struggle to understand how there can be such a thing as a first-person reality, quantum physicists have to grapple with the mystery of how there can be anything but a first-person reality. In short, all roads lead back to the observer. And that’s where you can find Hoffman — straddling the boundaries, attempting a mathematical model of the observer, trying to get at the reality behind the illusion. Quanta Magazine caught up with him to find out more. An edited and condensed version of the conversation follows.

QUANTA MAGAZINE: People often use Darwinian evolution as an argument that our perceptions accurately reflect reality. They say, “Obviously we must be latching onto reality in some way because otherwise we would have been wiped out a long time ago. If I think I’m seeing a palm tree but it’s really a tiger, I’m in trouble.”

“Evolution has shaped us with perceptions that allow us to survive. But part of that involves hiding from us the stuff we don’t need to know. And that’s pretty much all of reality, whatever reality might be.”
DONALD HOFFMAN: Right. The classic argument is that those of our ancestors who saw more accurately had a competitive advantage over those who saw less accurately and thus were more likely to pass on their genes that coded for those more accurate perceptions, so after thousands of generations we can be quite confident that we’re the offspring of those who saw accurately, and so we see accurately. That sounds very plausible. But I think it is utterly false. It misunderstands the fundamental fact about evolution, which is that it’s about fitness functions — mathematical functions that describe how well a given strategy achieves the goals of survival and reproduction. The mathematical physicist Chetan Prakash proved a theorem that I devised that says: According to evolution by natural selection, an organism that sees reality as it is will never be more fit than an organism of equal complexity that sees none of reality but is just tuned to fitness. Never.

You’ve done computer simulations to show this. Can you give an example?

Suppose in reality there’s a resource, like water, and you can quantify how much of it there is in an objective order — very little water, medium amount of water, a lot of water. Now suppose your fitness function is linear, so a little water gives you a little fitness, medium water gives you medium fitness, and lots of water gives you lots of fitness — in that case, the organism that sees the truth about the water in the world can win, but only because the fitness function happens to align with the true structure in reality. Generically, in the real world, that will never be the case. Something much more natural is a bell curve — say, too little water you die of thirst, but too much water you drown, and only somewhere in between is good for survival. Now the fitness function doesn’t match the structure in the real world. And that’s enough to send truth to extinction. For example, an organism tuned to fitness might see small and large quantities of some resource as, say, red, to indicate low fitness, whereas they might see intermediate quantities as green, to indicate high fitness. Its perceptions will be tuned to fitness, but not to truth. It won’t see any distinction between small and large — it only sees red — even though such a distinction exists in reality.

But how can seeing a false reality be beneficial to an organism’s survival?

There’s a metaphor that’s only been available to us in the past 30 or 40 years, and that’s the desktop interface. Suppose there’s a blue rectangular icon on the lower right corner of your computer’s desktop — does that mean that the file itself is blue and rectangular and lives in the lower right corner of your computer? Of course not. But those are the only things that can be asserted about anything on the desktop — it has color, position and shape. Those are the only categories available to you, and yet none of them are true about the file itself or anything in the computer. They couldn’t possibly be true. That’s an interesting thing. You could not form a true description of the innards of the computer if your entire view of reality was confined to the desktop. And yet the desktop is useful. That blue rectangular icon guides my behavior, and it hides a complex reality that I don’t need to know. That’s the key idea. Evolution has shaped us with perceptions that allow us to survive. They guide adaptive behaviors. But part of that involves hiding from us the stuff we don’t need to know. And that’s pretty much all of reality, whatever reality might be. If you had to spend all that time figuring it out, the tiger would eat you.

So everything we see is one big illusion?

We’ve been shaped to have perceptions that keep us alive, so we have to take them seriously. If I see something that I think of as a snake, I don’t pick it up. If I see a train, I don’t step in front of it. I’ve evolved these symbols to keep me alive, so I have to take them seriously. But it’s a logical flaw to think that if we have to take it seriously, we also have to take it literally.

If snakes aren’t snakes and trains aren’t trains, what are they?

Snakes and trains, like the particles of physics, have no objective, observer-independent features. The snake I see is a description created by my sensory system to inform me of the fitness consequences of my actions. Evolution shapes acceptable solutions, not optimal ones. A snake is an acceptable solution to the problem of telling me how to act in a situation. My snakes and trains are my mental representations; your snakes and trains are your mental representations.

How did you first become interested in these ideas?

As a teenager, I was very interested in the question “Are we machines?” My reading of the science suggested that we are. But my dad was a minister, and at church they were saying we’re not. So I decided I needed to figure it out for myself. It’s sort of an important personal question — if I’m a machine, I would like to find that out! And if I’m not, I’d like to know, what is that special magic beyond the machine? So eventually in the 1980s I went to the artificial intelligence lab at MIT and worked on machine perception. The field of vision research was enjoying a newfound success in developing mathematical models for specific visual abilities. I noticed that they seemed to share a common mathematical structure, so I thought it might be possible to write down a formal structure for observation that encompassed all of them, perhaps all possible modes of observation. I was inspired in part by Alan Turing. When he invented the Turing machine, he was trying to come up with a notion of computation, and instead of putting bells and whistles on it, he said, Let’s get the simplest, most pared down mathematical description that could possibly work. And that simple formalism is the foundation for the science of computation. So I wondered, could I provide a similarly simple formal foundation for the science of observation?

A mathematical model of consciousness.

That’s right. My intuition was, there are conscious experiences. I have pains, tastes, smells, all my sensory experiences, moods, emotions and so forth. So I’m just going to say: One part of this consciousness structure is a set of all possible experiences. When I’m having an experience, based on that experience I may want to change what I’m doing. So I need to have a collection of possible actions I can take and a decision strategy that, given my experiences, allows me to change how I’m acting. That’s the basic idea of the whole thing. I have a space X of experiences, a space G of actions, and an algorithm D that lets me choose a new action given my experiences. Then I posited a W for a world, which is also a probability space. Somehow the world affects my perceptions, so there’s a perception map P from the world to my experiences, and when I act, I change the world, so there’s a map A from the space of actions to the world. That’s the entire structure. Six elements. The claim is: This is the structure of consciousness. I put that out there so people have something to shoot at.

But if there’s a W, are you saying there is an external world?

Here’s the striking thing about that. I can pull the W out of the model and stick a conscious agent in its place and get a circuit of conscious agents. In fact, you can have whole networks of arbitrary complexity. And that’s the world.


David McNew for Quanta Magazine

Video: Donald Hoffman explains how our perceptions have evolved to become like a computer interface.
The world is just other conscious agents?

I call it conscious realism: Objective reality is just conscious agents, just points of view. Interestingly, I can take two conscious agents and have them interact, and the mathematical structure of that interaction also satisfies the definition of a conscious agent. This mathematics is telling me something. I can take two minds, and they can generate a new, unified single mind. Here’s a concrete example. We have two hemispheres in our brain. But when you do a split-brain operation, a complete transection of the corpus callosum, you get clear evidence of two separate consciousnesses. Before that slicing happened, it seemed there was a single unified consciousness. So it’s not implausible that there is a single conscious agent. And yet it’s also the case that there are two conscious agents there, and you can see that when they’re split. I didn’t expect that, the mathematics forced me to recognize this. It suggests that I can take separate observers, put them together and create new observers, and keep doing this ad infinitum. It’s conscious agents all the way down.

If it’s conscious agents all the way down, all first-person points of view, what happens to science? Science has always been a third-person description of the world.

The idea that what we’re doing is measuring publicly accessible objects, the idea that objectivity results from the fact that you and I can measure the same object in the exact same situation and get the same results — it’s very clear from quantum mechanics that that idea has to go. Physics tells us that there are no public physical objects. So what’s going on? Here’s how I think about it. I can talk to you about my headache and believe that I am communicating effectively with you, because you’ve had your own headaches. The same thing is true as apples and the moon and the sun and the universe. Just like you have your own headache, you have your own moon. But I assume it’s relevantly similar to mine. That’s an assumption that could be false, but that’s the source of my communication, and that’s the best we can do in terms of public physical objects and objective science.

It doesn’t seem like many people in neuroscience or philosophy of mind are thinking about fundamental physics. Do you think that’s been a stumbling block for those trying to understand consciousness?

I think it has been. Not only are they ignoring the progress in fundamental physics, they are often explicit about it. They’ll say openly that quantum physics is not relevant to the aspects of brain function that are causally involved in consciousness. They are certain that it’s got to be classical properties of neural activity, which exist independent of any observers — spiking rates, connection strengths at synapses, perhaps dynamical properties as well. These are all very classical notions under Newtonian physics, where time is absolute and objects exist absolutely. And then [neuroscientists] are mystified as to why they don’t make progress. They don’t avail themselves of the incredible insights and breakthroughs that physics has made. Those insights are out there for us to use, and yet my field says, “We’ll stick with Newton, thank you. We’ll stay 300 years behind in our physics.”

I suspect they’re reacting to things like Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff’s model, where you still have a physical brain, it’s still sitting in space, but supposedly it’s performing some quantum feat. In contrast, you’re saying, “Look, quantum mechanics is telling us that we have to question the very notions of ‘physical things’ sitting in ‘space.’”

I think that’s absolutely true. The neuroscientists are saying, “We don’t need to invoke those kind of quantum processes, we don’t need quantum wave functions collapsing inside neurons, we can just use classical physics to describe processes in the brain.” I’m emphasizing the larger lesson of quantum mechanics: Neurons, brains, space … these are just symbols we use, they’re not real. It’s not that there’s a classical brain that does some quantum magic. It’s that there’s no brain! Quantum mechanics says that classical objects — including brains — don’t exist. So this is a far more radical claim about the nature of reality and does not involve the brain pulling off some tricky quantum computation. So even Penrose hasn’t taken it far enough. But most of us, you know, we’re born realists. We’re born physicalists. This is a really, really hard one to let go of.

To return to the question you started with as a teenager, are we machines?

The formal theory of conscious agents I’ve been developing is computationally universal — in that sense, it’s a machine theory. And it’s because the theory is computationally universal that I can get all of cognitive science and neural networks back out of it. Nevertheless, for now I don’t think we are machines — in part because I distinguish between the mathematical representation and the thing being represented. As a conscious realist, I am postulating conscious experiences as ontological primitives, the most basic ingredients of the world. I’m claiming that experiences are the real coin of the realm. The experiences of everyday life — my real feeling of a headache, my real taste of chocolate — that really is the ultimate nature of reality.
 
Divide By Zero said:
from: the evolutionary argument against reality/

An interesting article that explains how what we see very well may not be real. Of course we think we see reality because we aren't walking or driving into trees. But, what he sees is really amazing and makes me wonder about how the C's said the veil will be lifted after we go through the valley of the shadow.

Interesting article (quantamagazine often has good reading pieces). It joins somehow what I tried to convey in the Ethics of belief thread with the idea that shared reality is real enough from the functional and learning point of views and that a balance between assumptions (healthy beliefs, not the pathological ones) and openness to revise those assumptions is the rational attitude in the face of our limited perception of "reality" and what we can infer from it as truth.
 
Divide By Zero said:
So everything we see is one big illusion?

The answer seems to be yes and no. The C's addressed this once in a rather pragmatic way (Dec 19, 1998):

A: We have explained before that the biggest single factor regarding densities is the awareness level.

Q: The awareness level. OK, how does that relate to them only being able to temporarily change their appearance? Is this because they can control *our* awareness?

A: Closer. Are you not yet aware that absolutely everything, we repeat: everything is an illusion?!?

Q: At some level, yes. So, still I ask, why, in the illusion in which we exist, or in which they exist … (A) They say here that everything is an illusion, and on the other hand they say there is consciousness and matter. Everything is an illusion? Even this?

A: Yes.

Q: (A) God is also an illusion?

A: Yes.

Q: (A) Illusion to whom?

A: To those not on level 7. Your learning naturally dictates your experiences. Once you no longer require something, you naturally move beyond it. However, you retain it as a function of understanding.

Q: (A) And I am also an illusion! And understanding is also an illusion! ... (A) Our illusion …

A: Everything is real, therefore, illusion is reality.
 
This view that "reality is illusion (is reality)" is a very old philosophical view. I have encountered the view in Indian metaphysics and philosophy. There could be other ancient sources too.

From the psychological perspective (since this is posted in psychology/cog sci section), the value of this line of thought is questionable. This is because the mind, the instrument with which this enquiry is conducted, does not stop at "everything is an illusion". It does not and maybe cannot grok this with intellect. It adds a " so ..........". The "devil" as they say (which is also an illusion which is reality) is in how these dots are filled up.
 
[quote author= Divide By Zero]
So everything we see is one big illusion?
[/quote]

I think dat I somewhat figured this out. Trying to answer that question was on my mind for months. I suppose it's easy for many here to understand this, because no explantion was given. Or at least not the ones I did understand. I know it's in the C's material. But that doesn't mean that I always understand what they are trying to say.


But I think:

Having reached union with the One i.e. 7D means that there is no need for a beginning or for an end. There is no need for difference between physical and ethereal forms. There is no need for anything. Simply because those things came into existence in order for you to learn. Because with union with the one. i.e. 7D you have learned. So there is no need for that anymore.

So in 7D all of that appears as an illusion. But for those in the lower densities, it's 'real', because the illusion needs to be 'real' in order for them to learn. It's your state of awarenesss that makes it 'real' unless you learn and move beyond that and take it with you as a matter of understanding.

'God' is an illusion for all those who are not on 7D. And 'God' is only unified at 7D.

When 'God' is not unified. Illusions appear as 'real' so you can learn.


I just hope that I didn't confuse the issue further. And hopefully I am somewhat on the right track.
 
I find when I read articles, or books, I very often 'see' the analogy of the two blind observers, observing an elephant. One at the tail and one at the trunk. You are getting very detailed descriptions of things but only from a very limited observation point.

That being said, the C's give us a different view of things, a sort of view from above. But when they describe the way things really are, it is hard for us to get a grasp of a lot of the concepts as they seem to be outside of our brain's ability to process them;

A: Everything is real, therefore, illusion is reality[/i].

Having reached union with the One i.e. 7D means that there is no need for a beginning or for an end. There is no need for difference between physical and ethereal forms. There is no need for anything. Simply because those things came into existence in order for you to learn. Because with union with the one. i.e. 7D you have learned. So there is no need for that anymore.

So in 7D all of that appears as an illusion. But for those in the lower densities, it's 'real', because the illusion needs to be 'real' in order for them to learn. It's your state of awarenesss that makes it 'real' unless you learn and move beyond that and take it with you as a matter of understanding.

'God' is an illusion for all those who are not on 7D. And 'God' is only unified at 7D.

When 'God' is not unified. Illusions appear as 'real' so you can learn.

I would agree with your assessment bjorn. Anything outside of 7D, or Union with the One, would be considered, an illusion. And this was done so that souls could learn, advance in spiritual growth. So the illusion, or the reality within the illusion is real, but it is an illusion compared to 7D.
 
If "everything is illusion", what is the definition of "illusion"?
 
Joe said:
If "everything is illusion", what is the definition of "illusion"?

I think that illusion as described by the C's is similar to distortion in the Ra teachings. Everything that has been created would be an illusion or distortion of Unity, or 7th Density. It is real, but is a distortion or illusion of 7D. And it has been created for souls to learn, and evolve back to Unity. In this way the Creator can know itself.

Illusion could be 'not real' or 'does not exist'. Or it could mean, it is not what it seems, but it is still real. So I think Illusion in this usage refers to the second meaning, although real, it is not what it seems, or there is a lot more to it than what we are aware of.

My two pesos...
 
[quote author= Joe]If "everything is illusion", what is the definition of "illusion"?[/quote]

How to best define illusions than? Perhaps a better thing to ask is why is there any need for illusions?

I also think it's because of this:

[quote author= Hello H2O]And it has been created for souls to learn, and evolve back to Unity. In this way the Creator can know itself. [/quote]


From what I am getting at. If you get at the core of things your existence and those of everyone came to be because this is how 'God' wants to experience itself. Meaning that high up in 7D at some 'time' some inner conflict arose in 'God' which caused imbalance (STS desires)

That's when 'God' dispersed and many lives and realities came into existence just so the 'universe' / 'life'/ others can give you a 'mirror'. (esoteric mirror, meant to give 'God' a mirror in order to learn and return to unify again in 7D)

Without a 'mirror' progression is not possible. Reality is a school and the 'mirror' serves this purpose. You need others so you can reflect on your life and vice versa.

So you act out as a 'mirror' for others and others act out as a 'mirror' for you.

Of course not everyone (subjectivity) sees it as that. But this is Objective truth?


So illusions are only 'real' as a means for lessons. And when you have learned (7D), than you can truly see them to the full extent for what they are. Illusions.

Or so I think, I don't know if this is really so. There is no way of telling. Just trying to understand some of the sessions and the overall esoteric truth of things.
 
Hello H2O said:
Joe said:
If "everything is illusion", what is the definition of "illusion"?

I think that illusion as described by the C's is similar to distortion in the Ra teachings. Everything that has been created would be an illusion or distortion of Unity, or 7th Density. It is real, but is a distortion or illusion of 7D. And it has been created for souls to learn, and evolve back to Unity. In this way the Creator can know itself.

Illusion could be 'not real' or 'does not exist'. Or it could mean, it is not what it seems, but it is still real. So I think Illusion in this usage refers to the second meaning, although real, it is not what it seems, or there is a lot more to it than what we are aware of.

My two pesos...

But if everything is illusion, then is unity not also an illusion? Or if everything is illusion, is illusion not then the only reality. And do we not simply get tied up in semantic knots in attempting to define something that we cannot really comprehend?
 
Joe said:
Hello H2O said:
Joe said:
If "everything is illusion", what is the definition of "illusion"?

I think that illusion as described by the C's is similar to distortion in the Ra teachings. Everything that has been created would be an illusion or distortion of Unity, or 7th Density. It is real, but is a distortion or illusion of 7D. And it has been created for souls to learn, and evolve back to Unity. In this way the Creator can know itself.

Illusion could be 'not real' or 'does not exist'. Or it could mean, it is not what it seems, but it is still real. So I think Illusion in this usage refers to the second meaning, although real, it is not what it seems, or there is a lot more to it than what we are aware of.

My two pesos...

But if everything is illusion, then is unity not also an illusion? Or if everything is illusion, is illusion not then the only reality. And do we not simply get tied up in semantic knots in attempting to define something that we cannot really comprehend?

Yes it's all an illusion. At 7D. Which we cannot comprehend. That's what I tried to tell. We cannot comprehend that. That was the whole point of it.
 
It seems to me that from a pragmatic point of view, we can only move through our respective lessons as best as we can and expand our awareness through that process. Until we get to 7D, we are by the nature of our restricted awareness not able to conclusively determine what is truly real or not, or whether or not an attempt at definitions or semantics in this regard even does us any good. What we do know is that no matter what we do once we're born into this world- we're bound to learn something, especially once we become conscious beings- and through that we may move ever closer to that point where we can maybe "sit back" and laugh at the illusions of the past.
 
Joe said:
Hello H2O said:
Joe said:
If "everything is illusion", what is the definition of "illusion"?

I think that illusion as described by the C's is similar to distortion in the Ra teachings. Everything that has been created would be an illusion or distortion of Unity, or 7th Density. It is real, but is a distortion or illusion of 7D. And it has been created for souls to learn, and evolve back to Unity. In this way the Creator can know itself.

Illusion could be 'not real' or 'does not exist'. Or it could mean, it is not what it seems, but it is still real. So I think Illusion in this usage refers to the second meaning, although real, it is not what it seems, or there is a lot more to it than what we are aware of.

My two pesos...

But if everything is illusion, then is unity not also an illusion? Or if everything is illusion, is illusion not then the only reality. And do we not simply get tied up in semantic knots in attempting to define something that we cannot really comprehend?


I think of it this way. Illusion does not exist only by itself. I can only exist as a reference or comparison to something else. For instance, if an illusionist purports to make someone disappear, but uses trickery of some kind, then compared to actually making that person disappear he is performing an illusion. If you were able to create a hologram of the Eiffel Tower, then in comparison to the actual tower, it would be an illusion.

So then, all of creation is an illusion when compared to Unity, since it is not Unity, but something created out of it. Creation may be just a thought, and to us it is real. But still, when compared to Unity, it is still an illusion of Unity, or a distortion from Unity.


I guess that is 3 pesos now...
 
Eulenspiegel said:
It seems to me that from a pragmatic point of view, we can only move through our respective lessons as best as we can and expand our awareness through that process. Until we get to 7D, we are by the nature of our restricted awareness not able to conclusively determine what is truly real or not, or whether or not an attempt at definitions or semantics in this regard even does us any good. What we do know is that no matter what we do once we're born into this world- we're bound to learn something, especially once we become conscious beings- and through that we may move ever closer to that point where we can maybe "sit back" and laugh at the illusions of the past.

I agree, we can only do what lies before us. But there is a difference between saying. I don't understand any of this stuff.

And knowing why you can't understand it. I appreciate the latter more.

So the theory goes: Illusions are their for the sake of lessons. Though we cannot know what those lessons all entail. We have to learn those as of yet.
 
« Reply #6 from Joe on: Yesterday at 11:06:12 PM »
If "everything is illusion", what is the definition of "illusion
--------
Very good observation.


« Reply #9 from Joe on: Today at 12:05:24 AM »
But if everything is illusion, then is unity not also an illusion? Or if everything is illusion, is illusion not then the only reality. And do we not simply get tied up in semantic knots in attempting to define something that we cannot really comprehend?
--------
Which is the true meaning of the words and where the roots come to form their "true" meaning of them.

Thinking about this, it takes us back to the present time by reading.
 
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