The Holy Planet Purgatory - Creation of All - Why are we here - Laws

[Oxajil]

Some time ago at casschat, we were discussing the 7d/Creator/God-problem etc. One of the casschat-members posted a quote from the book 'Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson' which I found very interesting. And thus, I continued researching this little quote and tried to search for info from other places, such as the glossary, this forum and the 'ISOTM' book, which might clarify some things I didn't understand in this quote. Furthermore I also tried to search for this quote in the Book to see if it might clarify some more things.

An important question arose from this research : 'Why are we here'

Ark's present answer to this question is: Debugging the Universe. What can we understand with 'debugging'? And how can one debug? Ark has explained these, but I wanted to check on it more broadly using all info possible about the Universe etc.

Also many other things got involved, such as the two Laws. etc. (And as Gurdjieff wrote:
"and try to understand very clearly these Laws of Triamonia and Eftologidiksis, since a complete understanding these two Laws will enable you to understand completely all other laws, both of the Creation, as well as of the maintenance of the Universe")

Since this is an ungoing research, I might edit it now and then. And I would appreciate it if we could discuss about this as well. Share idea's etc. and to think together about this matter more deeply and I would appreciate it that when you notice some pieces from the books/articles/etc you're reading, (which are about the Universe, Free Will, Laws, Systems etc., or which you think might be important to know/analyze) to post them here, so that we can analyze them, compare them etc!

I share this with you because I think it might be helpful. I also have this same research with added Dutch texts, comments and translations for Dutch readers (or readers from Belgium) [ http://video-vidi-visum.blogspot.com/2008/07/het-grote-universum-project.html ].

THE QUOTE which was posted in casschat

I'll slice this quote in pieces [in BLUE] and I'll try to highlight some things up or write a little summary beneath it, which might make it more clear to understand. I'll also write down some questions which bother me, but I'm sure that going on with research etc we might be close to finding an answer (or answers) to these questions.

.... But even before you can understand this, you should understand why souls exist in the Universe at all, and why souls, as well as the whole of the Universe, were created by Our Almighty Creator. "So listen attentively and try to assimilate these ideas into yourself. "Our Creator was compelled to create the Universe for the following reason: "When nothing else as yet was in the World, in the whole of the Universe, only the Sun-Absolute existed, and there on this Sun-Absolute, Our Almighty God existed with only His Cherubim and Seraphim.

? > Here, I'm wondering what he means with 'His Cherubim and Seraphim'.

Purgatory 2"Our Endlessness, Almighty God, once observed that the Sun-Absolute, itself, on which He existed was, owing to Time, diminishing gradually but perceptibly in volume, and He decided immediately to review all the Laws maintaining the existence of the Sun-Absolute. "In the course of this search, He discovered that the cause of the diminution of the Sun is the Heropass, that is to say, Time, which gradually diminishes the substance of every force. "

? > Here I asked myself why Time was the one behind the diminishing. Also the latter I found interesting: "Time, which gradually diminishes the substance of every force."

I'd like to advice you to read this part below which I've marked in red after you're done reading the Quote. You can read it tho, but you might not understand it at first.
If you read it, you might want to read it again after you read the Quote! I think that's better.

*****

#In the Glossary we can read:

In order for anything to happen within the Sun Absolute, that is, in order for The Absolute to create anything, then the infinitude of potentialities that comprised it would have to give way to the finitude of actualization. This dynamism is what Gurdjieff called the "merciless Heropass," that is, this is what he called the FLOW OF TIME. The diminution of potentialities that would result whenever anything 'happened' or was 'actualized' within the Sun Absolute, threatened the infinite reservoir of potentialities existing within it, thereby threatening to diminish the volume of the Sun Absolute itself.

The Sun Absolute was now threatened by the "merciless" flow of Time.

In order for the Sun Absolute to maintain its infinite state of potential so as not to suffer a progressive diminuation of potentialities due to their actualization, the Absolute, out of necessity, adjusted or modified the two fundamental laws that comprised the Sun Absolute, so that any created thing would send a counter flow of energy back into the Sun Absolute and maintain its existing (potential) state over time.

It was from this changing of these two fundamental laws, where they no longer operated independently but were now dependent on outside forces, that the original independent maintenance of the Sun Absolute became altered into a mutual exchange of force with all created materials.

#At casschat we can read:

So if Our Endlessness wanted to create anything, it would mean that the potentialities will decrease. And this would then diminish the volume of the SA itself. So he had to think of something that would maintain the 'existing potential state'.

and

I think this is a good way of looking at. I would think that for anything to `happen' in the Sun Absolute (such as a creative act or even a `thought') then there will be a change of potential since for anything to happen there it must happen in some kind of `time'. So if the potential is diminished when the Sun Absolute does anything, then the the Sun Absolute must `shrink.' That might be one way of looking at it.

G spoke of the "forced need" for the Sun Absolute to create the existing universe.

Plato in Timaeus spoke of time as the "moving image of eternity." He also spoke of `necessity' in the design of the universe and this might relate to G's "forced need."

#In this thread

Ark:

One more comment: according to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, the entropy in a closed system is increasing, the chaos is increasing with time. That is how I read "Our Endlessness, Almighty God, once observed that the Sun-Absolute, itself, on which He existed was, owing to Time, diminishing gradually but perceptibly in volume..." The "volume" stands here, I think, for "order". But the second law of thermodynamics does not apply to an open system. On the other hand an open system is unpredictable. Which is a danger, but also a hope.

#And clicking on that link, we can read [emphasis mine]:

One of the most common criticisms of evolutionary theory is that it supposedly violates the second law of thermodynamics. This law states that in a closed system, disorder grows and less energy is available for work. A good example of this is a battery; it breaks down as it works, and, in fact, breaks down even when it is not working.

Evolution, on the other hand, appears to be doing the exact opposite: life is evolving from the simple to the complex, and everywhere we look we see increasing order, not disorder. The key to the creationist's confusion here is the forgotten phrase in a closed system. A closed system is one that receives no fresh inputs of energy from an outside source. An open system does. For example, consider a lava lamp. When a lava lamp is turned on, incoming energy in the form of electricity heats the base of the lamp. This creates a gas bubble out of the lava, which then rises to the top. This in turn drives the cooler lava down to the bottom, which then turns into another gas bubble. Soon a circular flow is established. There is a high degree of order to this open system. But turn the lava lamp off, and the circular flow stops. Without incoming energy, disorder grows, and all traces of a system disappear.

As for the earth, it is not a closed system. It receives an endless supply of energy from the sun, which fuels the life process and creates growing order. It may certainly be true that the universe as a whole is a closed system, and its stars will burn out billions of years from now, creating the disorder predicted by the second law of thermodynamics. But it is obvious there are variations at many local levels, including our own solar system. This subsystem should remain open for another 5 billion years, when our sun is predicted to die out.

Some creationists try to confuse the subject, with arguments along the lines of: "It doesn't matter if it's open or closed. The sun can shine a million years on a rock, but it isn't going to turn that rock into organic life." But this is a different argument, an argument of chemistry. The original argument was one of thermodynamics, which claims that there is not enough energy to fuel life's processes. We've just shown that there is; problems of chemistry are a different issue which should be addressed in separate arguments.

So the reason that it shrunk was because (I think) if the Creator, Our Endlessness, wanted to 'create' anything, He first had to change or DO something that would prevent the Sun-Absolute from shrinking. Because if he 'used' the finite potentialities (because there is no 'fresh inputs of energy coming from anywhere'), there might be a point that there won't be any potentialities left anymore and the Sun-Absolute (thus 'threatened by the "merciless" flow of Time') might get destroyed by itself as a consequence! So this, we can see as a closed system. And in a closed system, the ORDER DECREASES (or disorder increases) and in the Sun-Absolute, the VOLUME DECREASES. And that is why, I think, Ark made the equivalent order=volume.
"A closed system is one that receives no fresh inputs of energy from an outside source." And this closed system was called 'Autoegokrat'. So the Creator was obliged to add something (Fagolgiria) so that this system wouldn't be closed anymore, but open. And this way, by creating first the sources, there was no more shrinking. And after he used his Will, everything thereafter was created AUTOMATICALLY.

*****

"As this question was very serious, He became thoughtful, and in these Divine reflections of His, He saw clearly, that, if this Heropass should continue to reduce the volume of the Sun-Absolute in this way, then sooner or later, it would eventually be to its complete destruction. Our Endlessness was then compelled to undertake several appropriate measures, so that this destruction of the Sun-Absolute from the Heropass should be averted.
"After great labours, He completely averted the whole of the threatened danger; and He accomplished this, in the following way: "You must know that up till then the Sun-Absolute had in itself, for its existence, only the force of the 'Autoegokrat'; that is, an independent force depending on nothing external itself. This same force, in its turn, was formed only of two Laws, namely, the Law of 'Triamonia' and the Law of 'Eftologodiksis'. To these two Laws, Our Creator added the third force, called 'Fagolgiria', by means of which the 'Autoegokrat' became the 'Trogoautoegokrat', that is, a force depending on other forces exterior to itself.

••summary•

FORCE - 'Autoegokrat' : 'an independent force depending on nothing external itself.' (or in other words: a closed system')
formed only of:
LAW - the Law of 'Triamonia'
LAW - the Law of 'Eftologodiksis'
+
FORCE - 'Fagolgiria'
=
FORCE - 'Trogautoegokrat' : ' force depending on other forces exterior to itself.' (or in other words: an open system)
••

[ I had a question about what the difference is between a Law and a Force and Saman replied at casschat:

By the way, I think a law becomes a force when it is applied. Hence, for instance, take the law of Triamazikamno. It only becomes referred to as a force when we are consciously applying one of its laws, if I am not mistaken, or say the force of the law. For another example, take the notion of STS forces and STO forces. Beings are classified as either or depending on their Free Will choice to align with and manifest either of the two laws/principles within and without themselves. ]

Or, as it might be said, after the addition of the Fagologiria, the Laws of Triamonia and Eftologodiksis could function only by feeding on the substances and forces coming from without. "When I shall explain later, pay special attention, and try to understand very clearly these Laws of Triamonia and Eftologidiksis, since a complete understanding these two Laws will enable you to understand completely all other laws, both of the Creation, as well as of the maintenance of the Universe.

Which means that these Laws couldn't function independantly anymore...

"I have already told you that the Sun-Absolute formerly existed only owing to these two independent Laws. "The first of these two laws was just the Triamonia, or as it is also called, the law of 'Threefoldness'. This Law of Threefoldness, in its turn consists of three forces, called 'Surpotheos', 'Surpakiros', and 'Surpathanatos'. But, for convenience, mathematics calls these three forces of the Law of Threefoldness, the force 'Plus', the force 'Minus', and the force 'Neutralizing'; or 'Pushing', 'Resisting', and 'Equilibrium'. On certain planets, these three forces are also called 'God the Father,' 'God the Son' and 'God the Holy Ghost'. "The second Law maintaining the Sun-Absolute is the law of Eftologodiksis; and this law is a force constantly evolving and involving in itself. The highest physico-chemical knowledge formulates this force as follows: 'The flowing of the line of a force which constantly deflects according to the law, with its ends meeting again.'

••summary•
LAW - Law of Triamonia / the law of 'Threefoldness':

1. FORCE - 'Surpotheos' / 'Plus' / 'God the Father' / 'Pushing'
2. FORCE - 'Surpakiros' / 'Minus' / 'God the Son' / 'Resisting'
3. FORCE - 'Surpathanatos' / 'Neutralizing' / 'Got the Holy Ghost' / 'Equilibrium'

---

LAW - Law of Eftologodiksis:

'The flowing of the line of a force which constantly deflects according to the law, with its ends meeting again.'
••

Purgatory 3"When our Endlessness decided to make the existence of the Sun-Absolute Trogoautoegocratic, since forces, or substances, coming from outside were necessary for such an existence, He decided first of all to create the sources
whence these forces and substances could come.
"He created them in the following way: He directed the action of the Laws of Triamonia and Eftologodiksis, which had been in the Sun-Absolute itself, from within the Sun-Absolute to without, and from this resulted what is now called, 'The Word God' or 'Emanation.' From that moment, the Sun-Absolute began to emanate from itself the action of the forces of the Triamonia and the Eftologodiksis, and this same emanation began to spread everywhere in the Universe.
"It is necessary to tell you, that when Our Creator directed the forces of the Sun-Absolute from within out, the emanations obtained from this had not at first, for a reason which I shall afterwards explain, the possibility of containing all three forces of the Triamonia in a vivifying state. Only two of these were vivifying, namely, the Positive Force and the Negative Force.

? > Here I wonder why the 'emanations obtained from this' didn't have the POSSIBILITY of containing ALL THREE forces of the Triamonia in a VIVIFYING state. The Neutralizing force was 'missing' / was not in a vivifying state.

Our Almighty Endlessness was therefore obliged to vivify the third force, the Neutralising Force, during the First Creation by the force of His Own Will. And having concentrated this, His force of Will, He created from the emanations issuing from the Sun-Absolute certain fixed points. And later, at these fixed points, again by the force of His Will, and with the help of the Laws of Triamonia and Eftologodiksis, which were already formed in these fixed points, Our Endlessness began to create gradually the 'corresponding', as the result of which the Suns were formed which exist at the present time.

So by using the force of His Own Will and with the help of the Laws of Triamonia and Eftologodiksis, the 'coressponding' was created, or the 'Suns'.

After the creation of all that was necessary on these suns, the latter began to emanate also. They became as the Sun-Absolute, but as Absolute of the 'Second Grade.'

When the latter (the Neutralizing force, I think) began to emanate also, they became as the Sun-Absolute. And so they're called the 'Second Grade'.

"The emanations of the Absolutes of the second grade having been established, everything thereafter was created without the Will of Our Creator taking part in it. Further creations began to be formed automatically owing only to the Laws of Triamonia and Eftologodiksis and chiefly because these laws were now 'fagolished,' that is, could everywhere function only owing to the forces coming from without.
From that time forward, the Laws of Triamonia and Eftologodiksis began to make their cycles in all their octaves, both inside the suns and outside. "The automatic creation of the suns proceeded further in the following way: the emanations of the newly-created suns became to each other as positive and negative, and the emanations of the Sun-Absolute itself became neutralising for these emanations of the newly created suns.

? > Here I wonder if there is a better explanation of ''the emanations of the newly-created suns became to each other as positive and negative, and the emanations of the Sun-Absolute itself became neutralising for these emanations of the newly created suns.''

Owing to this established Law of Triamonia, and like-wise to the Law of Eftologodiksis, which already began to make its outer chief cycle, there began to concentrate around each newly created sun, further new fixed points, in which and upon which again, owing to the same laws, 'The corresponding' gradually began to be created. As a result, suns again were formed, but suns of the third grade. "Further, upon these suns of the third grade, on the basis of the chief cycle of the Law of Eftologodiksis, and on the basis of the greatest deflection contained in this law, the smallest likenesses of the Megalocosmos began to be formed; and, still further, owing to a law, also cosmic, called the 'Accumulation of Similarities,' forms of these smallest similarities of the Megalocosmos were grouped together.

••summary•
Upon these suns of the third grade,

> on the basis of the chief cycle of the Law of Eftologodiksis
and
> on the basis of the greatest deflection contained in this law

the smallest likenesses of the Megalocosmos began to be formed.
••

Having thus accomplished its chief outer cycle, Purgatory 4 the Law of Eftologodiksis
thenceforward entered quite within the cosmoses created on different scales, and began to make its evolutions and involutions in them.
"The part subsequently played by these cosmoses of differing scales, consisted, how shall I tell you, in their becoming something like machines in the Universe, in which machines, owing to these two fagolised laws, that is Triamonia and Eftologodiksis, the cosmoses began to convert, or as it is said, to transform all the substance-matters of the Universe of all densities and all rates of vibration; that is to say, those machine-cosmoses began to convert substance-matters from one degree to another degree in the chief octave of the cosmic substances.

? >I wonder if we could understand ''to transform all the substance-matters of the Universe of all densities and all rates of vibration'' better. Were these substance-matters converted by those machine-cosmoses by chance? Because they are 'machines'? Because we speak of an open system now (some kind of order is created/increased (or increasing)? Does 'one degree to another degree' perhaps mean an increase in order?(I 'strikethrough-ed' it because we are not yet speaking of an open system yet, I think, read below)
Don't know..hm

--

In this thread, we can read, quote by Gurdjieff:

An involutionary process begins consciously in the absolute but at the next step it already becomes mechanical - and it becomes more and more mechanical as it develops; an evolutionary process begins half-consciously but it becomes more and more conscious as it develops.

which might make us understand this better:

"the Law of Eftologodiksis thenceforward entered quite within the cosmoses created on different scales, and began to make its evolutions and involutions in them."

"Thus, owing to these machine-cosmoses, all substances began to evolve and involve and from this arose the exchange of substances owing to which a reciprocal feeding resulted in all the cosmoses. In this reciprocal feeding, the Sun-Absolute also took part. In this manner Trogoautoegokrat was established in the Universe and all the cosmoses began to maintain the existence of each other by this reciprocal feeding. "Each cosmos itself began, either to serve as food, or to prepare matters through itself for other cosmoses. And by this Trogoautoegokrat that constant equilibrium was established which now deprives the Heropass of the possibility of doing anything unexpected to our Sun-Absolute.

? >Looking at my previous question I think that before there could be an exchange of substances, all substances had to 'evolve and involve' and this 'evolve and involve' might be the same as 'converting substance-matters from one degree to another'. Or it could just stand for an 'exchange of substances'. I think 'in the chief octave of the cosmic substances' might be the key here.
Also note that once the reciprocal feeding arose , 'Trogautoegokrat was established in the Universe'.

"Names were then given to these cosmoses, and these names exist even to the present day. "Thus our whole Universe had been called 'Megalocosmos' since then: and this Megalocosmos consists of seven cosmoses, these seven cosmoses are called as follows: ?1) The Sun-Absolute itself: 'Protocosmos'. ?2) All the newly created suns together: 'Mecrocosmos'. ?3) Each newly-created sun individually: 'Defterocosmos'. ?4) The third grade suns called: 'Messacosmos'. ?5) Those smallest similarities of the Megalocosmos, which were formed on the Messacosmoses were called 'Microcosmoses' ?6) Those forms accumulating from these Microcosmoses were called: 'Tritacosmoses'.

••summary•
Universe - Megalocosmos

1. The Sun-Absolute - Protocosmos
2. All the newly created suns together - Mecrocosmos
3. Each newly-created sun individually - Defterocosmos
4. The third grade suns called - Messacosmos - PLANETS
5. Smallest similarities of the Megalocosmos (formed on the Messacosmoses) - Microcosmoses
6. Forms accumulating from these Microcosmoses - Tritacosmoses - BEINGS
••

"By the way, you must know that the Messacosmoses are just those points of the Universe, which we now call planets, and Tritacosmoses are just those forms, now called beings, which inhabit the planets. "Names were given then also to the emanations and radiations of the suns of all three grades. The Emanations of the Sun-Absolute were called, 'Ayalogos'; the emanation of the newly-created suns, 'Okidonos'; and the radiations of the planets were called 'Dinamodonis'.

••summary•
The emanations of the Sun-Absolute - Ayalogos
The emanation of the newly-created suns - Okidonos
The radiations of the planets - Dinamodonis
••

Purgatory 5"When all had become regulated in these cosmoses and their harmonious mechanical reciprocal maintenance, through reciprocal feeding had been finally established, then, my dear Hassein, in one of these cosmoses, namely, in the Tritacosmos (beings), owing to the fact that this Tritacosmos had received its form on the surface of the Messacosmos, that it, of the planets, and owing to the fact that this surface by chance afforded suitable possibilities and conditions, and, of course, also, owing to the fact that this cosmos was a part of the fulfilment of the Trogoautoegocrat, that is, could exist owing to the support of other cosmoses, and in turn served to produce substances for support of other cosmoses, - owing to all these reasons, on certain planets, among these Tritacosmoses, the possibility of mechanical movement on the surface of those planets was obtained.

••summary•
In the Tritacosmos; owing to the fact...

...that this Tritacosmos (being) had received its form on the surface of the Messacosmos (planet)

...that this surface by chance afforded suitable possibilities and conditions

...that this cosmos was a part of the fulfilment of the Trogautoegocrat (that is: could exist owing to the support of other cosmoses, and in turn served to produce substances for other cosmoses)

Owing to all these reasons, on certain planets, among these Tritacosmoses (beings), the possibility of mechanical movement on the surface of those planets was obtained.
••

"This mechanical movement was specially helped by the fact that the need of food of this, as well as of all other cosmoses, was not continuous but periodic. "When our Endlessness observed this unforeseen phenomenon, the idea first arose in Him for the governance of the enlarged Universe, to create for Himself from these Tritacosomoses, a certain help......

? > I still wonder a little why periodic and not continuous and why this was an unforeseen phenomenon (and I think a phenomenon that was not 'pleasant'). Was it 'unpleasant' (if it were) because the mechanical movement was SPECIALLY HELPED by this?

I asked this question, of why the need of food is periodic and not continuous, and Alan responded at casschat:

"I could be wrong but it sounds to me like it means any creature that's able to move about doesn't have to feed themselves 24/7. They feed when they're hungry etc., as opposed to static things like trees which could be thought of as continually feeding off the soil and sunlight. creatures that don't have to constantly feed would probably be of more potential help because they could do other things."

And perhaps Free Will plays a role in here?

I reacted to this comment as following:


"Hmm yes, that could be a good explanation. Maybe we also have an "existing (potential) state" which 'needs' to be sustained by "influences from outside". And this happens periodically, because, as you said, we don't have to be fed 24/7. Only when we're hungry." And I think this excerpt of ISOTM kind of relates to this.. :

p.84-85
{...} = italics

G:
["But by studying himself, the manifestations of his thought, consciousness, activity—his habits, his desires, and so on—man may learn to observe and to see in himself the action of the three forces. Let us suppose, for instance, that a man wants to work on himself in order to change certain of his characteristics, to attain a higher level of being. His desire, his initiative, is the active force. The inertia of all his habitual psychological life which shows opposition to his initiative will be the passive or the negative force. The two forces will either counterbalance one another, or one will completely conquer the other, but, at the same time, it will become too weak for any further action. Thus the two forces will, as it were, revolve one around the other, one absorbing the other and producing no result whatever. This may continue for a lifetime. A man may feel desire and initiative. But all this initiative may be absorbed in overcoming the habitual inertia of life, leaving nothing for the purpose towards which the initiative ought to be directed. And so it may go on until the third force makes its appearance, in the form, for instance, of {new knowledge}, showing at once the advantage or the necessity of work on oneself and, in this way, supporting and strengthening the initiative. Then the initiative, with the support of this third force, may conquer inertia and the man becomes active in the desired direction.]

---

Anyway this is the end of the quote posted by ark at casschat. Now I'd like you to read again the red part above which might clear some things up or might make you understand things a bit differently, or maybe it will not change anything. Now I'd like to take info from different sources and then try to compare these and analyze these in the hopes of better understanding this chapter of Gurdjieff's book.
I'll put each source-info between two **********

---

**********

Info from the book 'IN SEARCH OF THE MIRACULOUS' by P.D. Ouspensky.
This section might get bigger, because I haven't yet finished the book yet.

--

First I'm gonna copy what I've already written before at casschat.
quote = ISOTM

"Before examining these influences," began G., "and the laws of transformation of Unity into Plurality, we must examine the fundamental law that creates all phenomena in all the diversity or unity of all universes.

He said: "The Laws of transformation of Unity into Plurality" (which reminds me of the creation of the whole of the Universe)

"This is the 'Law of Three' or the law of the three principles or the three forces. It consists of the fact that every phenomenon, on whatever scale and in whatever world it may take place, from molecular to cosmic phenomena, is the result of the combination or the meeting of three different and opposing forces.

Okay so: Every phenomenon is the RESULT of the COMBINATION or the MEETING of three different and opposing forces. Reading 'Law of Three' reminded me of the law of Triamonia (the law of Threefoldness).
This is what I thought of, looking at the excerpt from Beelzebubs tales:

"It is necessary to tell you, that when Our Creator directed the forces of the Sun-Absolute from within out, the emanations obtained from this had not at first, for a reason which I shall afterwards explain, the possibility of containing all three forces of the Triamonia in a vivifying state. Only two of these were vivifying, namely, the Positive Force and the Negative Force."

Note: ONLY TWO were vivifying, the positive and the negative. (Why this was the case, I wonder too)

"Our Almighty Endlessness was therefore obliged to vivify the third force, the Neutralising Force, during the First Creation by the force of His Own Will."

Note: OBLIGED and FIRST CREATION.
So this 'first creation' is a phenomenon which is the result of the COMBINATION or the meeting of the three different and opposing forces. So maybe that's why he was obliged to add the third force. Because only a combination of the three forces can cause a phenomenon.

Now I go on with what was said in Part IV of ISOTM:
Here again G. explains that only THREE forces can produce a phenomenon:

Contemporary thought realizes the existence of two forces and the necessity of these two forces for the production of a phenomenon: force and resistance, positive and negative magnetism, positive and negative electricity, male and female cells, and so on. But it does not observe even these two forces always and everywhere. No question has ever been raised as to the third, or if it has been raised it has scarcely been heard.
"According to real, exact knowledge, one force, or two forces, can never produce a phenomenon. The presence of a third force is necessary, for it is only with the help of a third force that the first two can produce what may be called a phenomenon, no matter in what sphere.

[...] "Returning to the world in which we live we may now say that in the Absolute, as well as in everything else, three forces are active: the active, the passive, and the neutralizing. But since by its very nature everything in the Absolute constitutes one whole the three forces also constitute one whole. Moreover in forming one independent whole the three forces possess a full and independent will, full consciousness, full understanding of themselves and of everything they do. [...] "The three forces of the Absolute, constituting one whole, separate and unite by their own will and by their own decision, and at the points of junction they create phenomena, or 'worlds.' These worlds, created by the will of the Absolute, depend entirely upon this will in everything that concerns their own existence. In each of these worlds the three forces again act. Since, however, each of these worlds is now not the whole, but only a part, then the three forces in them do not form a single whole. It is now a case of three wills, three consciousnesses, three unities. Each of the three forces contains within it the possibility of all three forces, but at the meeting point of the three forces each of them manifests only one principle—the active, the passive, or the neutralizing. The three forces together form a trinity which produces new phenomena. But this trinity is different, it is not that which was in the Absolute, where the three forces formed an indivisible whole and possessed one single will and one single consciousness. In the worlds of the second order the three forces are now divided and their meeting points are now of a different nature. In the Absolute the moment and the point of their meeting is determined by their single will. In the worlds of the second order, where there is no longer a single will but three wills, the points of issue are each determined by a separate will, independent of the others, and therefore the meeting point becomes accidental or mechanical. The will of the Absolute creates the worlds of the second order and governs them, but it does not govern their creative work, in which a mechanical element makes its appearance.

Ok, so this is really awesome.
G. says that "The will of the Absolute creates the worlds of the second order and governs them, but it does NOT govern their creative work, in which a mechanical element makes its appearance."

and in Beelzebub we can read:

"After the creation of all that was necessary on these suns, the latter began to emanate also. They became as the Sun-Absolute, but as Absolute of the 'Second Grade.' "The emanations of the Absolutes of the second grade having been established, everything thereafter was created without the Will of Our Creator taking part in it."

And now we can understand this (the latter) better, because now we can understand that the 'Absolute of the 'Second Grade'' has THREE WILLS instead of just one single will (and/or consciousness). And thus if anything happens it is coincidental/mechanical, because 'the points of issue are each determined by a separate will, independent of the others'.

Maybe this part:

"The automatic creation of the suns proceeded further in the following way: the emanations of the newly-created suns became to each other as positive and negative, and the emanations of the Sun-Absolute itself became neutralising for these emanations of the newly created suns."

corresponds to the Three Will's

"Let us imagine the Absolute as a circle and in it a number of other circles, worlds of the second order. Let us take one of these circles. The Absolute is designated by the number 1, because the three forces constitute one whole in the Absolute, and the small circles we will designate by the number 3, because in a world of the second order the three forces are already divided.

"The three divided forces in the worlds of the second order, meeting together in each of these worlds, create new worlds of the third order. Let us take one of these worlds. The worlds of the third order, created by the three forces which act semimechanically, no longer depend upon the single will of the Absolute but upon three mechanical laws. These worlds are created by the three forces. And having been created they manifest three new forces of their own. Thus the number
of forces acting in the worlds of the third order will be six. In the diagram the circle of the third order is designated by the number 6 (3 plus 3). In these worlds are created worlds of a new order, the fourth order. In the worlds of the fourth order there act three forces of the world of the second order, six forces of the world of the third order, and three of their own, twelve forces altogether. Let us take one of these worlds and designate it by the number 12 (3 plus 6 plus 3). Being subject to a greater number of laws these worlds stand still further away from the single will of the Absolute and are still more mechanical. The worlds created within these worlds will be governed by twenty-four forces (3 plus 6 plus 12 plus 3). The worlds created within these worlds will be governed by forty-eight forces, the number 48 being made up as follows: three forces of the world immediately following the Absolute, six of the next one, twelve of the next,twenty-four of the one after, and three of its own (3 plus 6 plus 12 plus 24 plus 3), forty-eight in all. Worlds created within worlds 48 will be governed by ninety-six forces (3 plus 6 plus 12 plus 24 plus 48 plus 3). The worlds of the next order, if there are any, will be governed by 192 forces, and so on.

"If we take one of the many worlds created in the Absolute, that is, world 3, it will be the world representing the total number of starry worlds similar to our Milky Way. If we take world 6, it will be one of the worlds created within this world, namely the accumulation of stars which we call the Milky Way. World 12 will be one of the suns that compose the Milky Way, our sun. World 24 will be the planetary world, that is to say, all the planets of the solar system. World 48 will be the earth. World 96 will be the moon. If the moon had a satellite it would be world 192, and so on.

"The chain of worlds, the links of which are the Absolute, all worlds, all suns, our sun, the planets, the earth, and the moon, forms the 'ray of creation' in which we find ourselves. The ray of creation is for us the 'world' in the widest sense of the term. Of course, the ray of creation does not include the 'world' in the full sense of the term, since the Absolute gives birth to a number, perhaps to an infinite number, of different worlds, each of which begins a new and separate ray of creation. Furthermore, each of these worlds contains a number of worlds representing a further breaking up of the ray and again of these worlds we select only one—our Milky Way; the Milky Way consists of a number of suns, but of this number we select one sun which is nearest to us, upon which we immediately depend, and in which we live and move and have our being. Each of the other suns means a new breaking up of the ray, but we cannot study these rays in the same way as our ray, that is, the ray in which we are situated. Further, within the solar system the planetary world is nearer to us than the sun itself, and within the planetary world the nearest of all to us is the earth, the planet on which we live. We have no need to study other planets in the same way as we study the earth, it is sufficient for us to take them all together, that is to say, on a considerably smaller scale than we take the earth.

"The number of forces in each world, 1, 3, 6, 12, and so on, indicates the number of laws to which the given world is subject. "The fewer laws there are in a given world, the nearer it is to the will of the Absolute; the more laws there are in a given world, the greater the mechanicalness, the further it is from the will of the Absolute. We live in a world subject to forty-eight orders of laws, that is to say, very far from the will of the Absolute and in a very remote and dark comer of the universe.

What we can learn from this piece is that the fewer laws there are, the nearer it is to the will of the Absolute. Since our world is subject to 48 orders of laws it kinda means that our 'mechanicalness' is quite high. (see fig.1)

fig.1

---end of casschat message.
Continuing:

"The process of the growth and the warming of the moon is connected with life and death on the earth. Everything living sets free at its death a certain amount of the energy that has 'animated' it; this energy, or the 'souls' of everything living—plants, animals, people—is attracted to the moon as though by a huge electromagnet, and brings to it the warmth and the life upon which its growth depends, that is, the growth of the ray of creation. In the economy of the universe nothing is lost, and a certain energy having finished its work on one plane goes to another. [p.98]

Which reminds me of:

[...] owing to the fact that this Tritacosmos had received its form on the surface of the Messacosmos, that it, of the planets, and owing to the fact that this surface by chance afforded suitable possibilities and conditions, and, of course, also, owing to the fact that this cosmos was a part of the fulfilment of the Trogoautoegocrat, that is, could exist owing to the support of other cosmoses, and in turn served to produce substances for support of other cosmoses, [...]

"The souls that go to the moon, possessing perhaps even a certain amount of consciousness and memory, find themselves there under ninety-six laws, in the conditions of mineral life, or to put it differently, in conditions from which there is no escape apart from a general evolution in immeasurably long planetary cycles. The moon is 'at the extremity,' at the end of the world; it is the 'outer darkness' of the Christian doctrine 'where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

"The influence of the moon upon everything living manifests itself in all that happens on the earth. The moon is the chief, or rather, the nearest, the immediate, motive force of all that takes place in organic life on the earth. All movements, actions, and manifestations of people, animals, and plants depend upon the moon and are controlled by the moon. The sensitive film of organic life which covers the earthly globe is entirely dependent upon the influence of the huge electromagnet that is sucking out its vitality. Man, like every other living being, cannot, in the ordinary conditions of life, tear himself free from the moon. All his movements and consequently all his actions are controlled by the moon. If he kills another man, the moon does it; if he sacrifices himself for others, the moon does that also. All evil deeds, all crimes, all self-sacrificing actions, all heroic exploits, as well as all the actions of ordinary everyday life, are controlled by the moon. [p.98]

"The liberation which comes with the growth of mental powers and faculties is liberation from the moon. The mechanical part of our life depends upon the moon, is subject to the moon. If we develop in our selves consciousness and will, and subject our mechanical life and all our mechanical manifestations to them, we shall escape from the power of the moon. [p.99]

>> Now there will be something about materiality <<

"The next idea which it is necessary to master is the materiality of the universe which is taken in the form of the ray of creation. Everything in this universe can be weighed and measured. The Absolute is as material, as weighable and measurable, as the moon, or as man. If the Absolute is God it means that God can be weighed and measured, resolved into component elements, 'calculated,' and expressed in the form of a definite formula. [p.99]

"But the concept 'materiality' is as relative as everything else. It we recall how the concept 'man' and all that refers to him—good, evil, truth, falsehood, and so on—is divided into different categories ('man number one,' 'man number two,' and so on, it will be easy for us to understand that the concept 'world,' and everything that refers to the world, is also divided into different categories. The ray of creation establishes seven planes in the world, seven worlds one within another. Everything that refers to the world is also divided into seven categories, one category within another. The materiality of the Absolute is a materiality of an order different from that of 'all worlds.' The materiality of 'all worlds' is of an order different from the materiality of 'all suns.' The materiality of 'all suns' is of an order different from the materiality of our sun. The materiality of our sun is of an order different from the materiality of 'all planets.' The materiality of 'all planets' is of an order different from the materiality of the earth, and the materiality of the earth is of an order different from the materiality of the moon. This idea is at first difficult to grasp. People are accustomed to think that matter is everywhere the same. The whole of physics, of astrophysics, of chemistry, such methods as spectroanalysis, and so on, are based upon this assumption. And it is true that matter is the same, but materiality is different. And different degrees of materiality depend directly upon the qualities and properties of the energy manifested at a given point.

"Matter or substance necessarily presupposes the existence of force or energy. This does not mean that a dualistic conception of the world is necessary. The concepts of matter and force are as relative as everything else. In the Absolute, where all is one, matter and force are also one. But in this connection matter and force are not taken as real principles of the world in itself, but as properties or characteristics of the phenomenal world observed by us. To begin the study of the universe it is sufficient to have an elementary idea of matter and energy, such as we get by immediate observation through our organs of sense. The 'constant' is taken as material, as matter, and 'changes' in the state of the 'constant,' or of matter, are called manifestations of force or energy. All these changes can be regarded as the result of vibrations or undulatory motions which begin in the center, that is, in the Absolute, and go in all directions, crossing one another, colliding, and merging together, until they stop altogether at the end of the ray of creation. [p.99 - 100]

••summary•
The Absolute - all worlds - all suns - our (or a) sun - all planets - earth (or a planet) - moon

--

Different degrees of materiality depend directly upon...:
- the qualities
and
- properties of the energy
...manifested at a given point.

--

The 'constant' = material / matter
'Changes' in the state of the 'constant' = manifestations of force or energy
••

I think that 'vibrations or undulatory motions' could be the emanations.

( ""Names were given then also to the emanations and radiations of the suns of all three grades. The Emanations of the Sun-Absolute were called, 'Ayalogos'; the emanation of the newly-created suns, 'Okidonos'; and the radiations of the planets were called 'Dinamodonis'. )

"From this point of view, then, the world consists of vibrations and matter, or of matter in a state of vibration, of vibrating matter. The rate of vibration is in inverse ratio to the density of matter.
"In the Absolute vibrations are the most rapid and matter is the least dense. In the next world vibrations are slower and matter denser; and further on matter is still more dense and vibrations correspondingly slower. [p.100]

So the 'slower' the vibrations get, the denser the matter 'gets'.

'Matter' may be regarded as consisting of 'atoms.' Atoms in this connection are taken also as the result of the final division of matter. In every order of matter they are simply certain small particles of the given matter which are indivisible only on the given plane. The atoms of the Absolute alone are really indivisible, the atom of the next plane, that is, of world 3, consists of three atoms of the Absolute or, in other words, it is three times bigger and three times heavier, and its movements are correspondingly slower. The atom of world 6 consists of six atoms of the Absolute merged together, as it were, and forming one atom. Its movements are correspondingly slower. The atom of the next world consists of twelve primordial particles, and of the next worlds, of twenty-four, forty-eight, and ninety-six. The atom of world 96 is of an enormous size compared with the atom of world 1; its movements are correspondingly slower, and the matter which is made up of such atoms is correspondingly denser. [p.100]

(see fig. 2)

fig.2

"The seven worlds of the ray of creation represent seven orders of materiality. The materiality of the moon is different from the materiality of the earth; the materiality of the earth is different from the materiality of the planetary world; the materiality of the planetary world is different from the materiality of the sun, and so on. [p.101]

If we look back at one of my questions about this part of the quote from Beelzebub:

in their becoming something like machines in the Universe, in which machines, owing to these two fagolised laws, that is Triamonia and Eftologodiksis, the cosmoses began to convert, or as it is said, to transform all the substance-matters of the Universe of all densities and all rates of vibration; that is to say, those machine-cosmoses began to convert substance-matters from one degree to another degree in the chief octave of the cosmic substances.

Does 'one degree to another degree' perhaps mean 'different materialities'? One materiality to another materiality?

"Thus instead of one concept of matter we have seven kinds of matter, but our ordinary conception of materiality only with difficulty embraces the materiality of worlds 96 and 48. The matter of world 24 is much too rarefied to be regarded as matter from the scientific point of view of our physics and chemistry; such matter is practically hypothetical. The still finer matter of world 12 has, for ordinary investigation, no characteristics of materiality at all. All these matters belonging to the various orders of the universe are not separated into layers but are intermixed, or, rather, they interpenetrate one another. We can get an idea of similar interpenetration of matters of different densities from the penetration of one matter by another matter of different densities known to us. A piece of wood may be saturated with water, water may in its turn be filled with gas. Exactly the same relation between different kinds of matter may be observed in the whole of the universe: the finer matters permeate the coarser ones. [p.101]

"Matter that possesses characteristics of materiality comprehensible to us is divided for us into several states according to its density: solid, liquid, gaseous; further gradations of matter are: radiant energy, that is, electricity, light, magnetism; and so on. But on every plane, that is to say, in every order of materiality, similar relations and divisions of the various states of a given matter may be found; but, as has been already said, matter of a higher plane is not material at all for the lower planes. [p.101 - 102]

••summary•
Matter is divided for us into several states according to its density:
- solid
- liquid
- gaseous

further gradations of matter are:
- radiant energy ( electricity, light, magnetism etc.)
••

"All the matter of the world that surrounds us, the food that we eat, the water that we drink, the air that we breathe, the stones that our houses are built of, our own bodies—everything is permeated by all the matters that exist in the universe. There is no need to study or investigate the sun in order to discover the matter of the solar world: this matter exists in ourselves and is the result of the division of our atoms. In the same way we have in us the matter of all other worlds. Man is, in the full sense of the term, a 'miniature universe'; in him are all the matters of which the universe consists; the same forces, the same laws that govern the life of the universe, operate in him; therefore in studying man we can study the whole world, just as in studying the world we can study man. [p.102]

And this reminds me of what the C's said! :

A: The entire sum total of all existence exists within each of you, and vice versa.

"But a complete parallel between man and the world can only be drawn if we take 'man' in the full sense of the word, that is, a man whose inherent powers are developed. An undeveloped man, a man who has not completed the course of his evolution, cannot be taken as a complete picture or plan of the universe—he is an unfinished world. [p.102]

"As has been said already, the study of oneself must go side by side with the study of the fundamental laws of the universe. The laws are the same everywhere and on all planes. But the very same laws manifesting themselves in different worlds, that is, under different conditions, produce different phenomena. The study of the relation of laws to the planes upon which they are manifested brings us to the study of relativity.
"The idea of relativity occupies a very important place in this teaching, and, later on, we shall return to it. But before anything else it is necessary to understand the relativity of each thing and of each manifestation according to the place it occupies in the cosmic order.
"We are on the earth and we depend entirely upon the laws that are operating on the earth. The earth is a very bad place from the cosmic point of view—it is like the most remote part of northern Siberia, very far from everywhere, it is cold, life is very hard. Everything that in another place either comes by itself or is easily obtained, is here acquired only by hard labor; everything must be fought for both in life and in the work. In life it still happens sometimes that a man gets a legacy and afterwards lives without doing anything. But such a thing does not happen in the work. All are equal and all are equally beggars. [p.102 - 103]

>> A piece about the law of three <<

"Returning to the law of three, one must learn to find the manifestations of this law in everything we do and in everything we study. The application of this law in any sphere at once reveals much that is new, much that we did not see before. Take chemistry, for instance. Ordinary science does not know of the law of three and it studies matter without taking into consideration its cosmic properties. But besides ordinary chemistry there exists another, a special chemistry, or alchemy if you like, which studies matter taking into consideration its cosmic properties. As has been said before, the cosmic properties of each substance are determined first by its place, and secondly by the force which is acting through it at the given moment. Even in the same place the nature of a given substance undergoes a great change dependent upon the force which is being manifested through it. Each substance can be the conductor of any one of the three forces and, in accordance with this, it can be active, passive, or neutralizing. And it can be neither the first, nor the second, nor the third, if no force is manifesting through it at the given moment or if it is taken without relation to the manifestation of forces. In this way every substance appears, as it were, in four different aspects or states. In this connection it must be noted that when we speak of matter we do not speak of chemical elements. The special chemistry of which I speak looks upon every substance having a separate function, even the most complex, as an element. In this way only is it possible to study the cosmic properties of matter, because all complex compounds have their own cosmic purpose and significance. From this point of view an atom of a given substance is the smallest amount of the given substance which retains all its chemical, physical, and cosmic properties. Consequently the size of the 'atom' of different substances is not the same. And in some cases an 'atom' may be a particle even visible to the naked eye. [p.103]

••summary•
The cosmic properties of each substance are determined
- first by its place, and
- secondly by the force which is acting through it at the given moment.

--

Every substance appears in four different aspects or states.
- active
- passive
- neutralizing
- none of the above
••

**********

**********

Now I'm going to take from the GLOSSARY/CASSIOPEDIA

First I'm going to read the article ''Service to Others and Service to Self''
Where we can read:

The concepts of service to others (STO) and service to self (STS) are the central cornerstone of the teaching of first Ra and then Cassiopaea. We find these same fundamentals expressed in different terms throughout esoteric culture. The fundamental nature and extreme breadth of these concepts makes them difficult to define since these are in one way or another reflected in all things.

Ra said that for the human level, speaking of STO vs. STS was the most appropriate terminology because humans tend to think in terms of action and its ethical basis. The concepts of absorption for STS and radiance for STO could also be used as a metaphor. At any rate, the principles are beyond words.

Cosmologically, the Cassiopaeans speak of 'dual emergence' from the One. This is the source of all which is and this is where the first duality comes into being. The principle of free will, at its various levels of manifestation, mediates between these. This can be compared to Gurdjieff's first triad, the Sun Absolute dividing in three at the start of the ray of creation. In the most abstract sense, the existence of two dissimilar forces or tendencies plus free will is the simplest basis

 

[Oxajil]

for an open universe. All the forms of creation follow from these, through a series of increasingly restricted or mechanical levels of being. These levels correspond to the densities of Ra and Cassiopaea or the cosmoses of the 4th Way.

So 'two dissimilar forces or tendencies PLUS free will is the simplest basis for an open universe'. And, open in the sense of, based on the choices we make out of our Free Will, that is, if we are aware of our Free Will.. I think.

[...]
Gurdjieff discusses STO and STS in Beelzebub's Tales as follows:

"If the notions recorded on this Boolmarshano were put into ordinary language, they could be stated in the following words:

"'Evidently we men, also like all the existing units of the World, are formed and always consist of the same three independent forces, by means of which the process of reciprocal maintenance of everything existing proceeds; namely, of the following three independent World forces: "'The first of these forces constantly arises from the causes which proceed in the Prime Source itself and from the pressure of the newly arisen, and issuing from it by momentum flows out of that Prime Source. "'The second World force is what this first force be- comes, when, after having spent the momentum which it has received, it strives to reblend with the source of its arising, according to the fundamental World law called "The effects of a cause must always re-enter the cause."

"'Both of these forces in the general process of reciprocally maintaining forces are entirely independent, and in their manifestations have always and in everything their own properties and particularities. "'The first of these two fundamental forces, namely, that one which for compelling reasons always manifests outside the source of its arising, must constantly involve; and the second one, on the contrary, striving to blend with the cause of its arising, must always and in everything evolve. "'Owing to the fact that the first of the mentioned three independent forces arises from vivifying actions proceeding in the very foundation of the cause of everything existing and thus receives in its presence the germ of the possibility of manifesting vivifyingness, it may be considered as "Good," that is, as a factor for the actualizing of the backward-flowing effects which in relation to this first force can and must be considered as "Evil." "I Moreover, the first of these forces, which is manifested from inevitable and compelling causes arising in the Prime Source itself, can from this point of view be considered as passive. And the second backward-flowing force, because it must constantly resist in order to have the possibility of penetrating backward or at least the possibility of withstanding the opposite-flowing first passive force which has received its momentum from the Prime Source causes, must be regarded as active. "And as for the third independent World force, this force is nothing else but only the result of the clash everywhere and in everything of these two fundamental descending and ascending independent forces.

"'Although this third independent force is only the result of both first fundamental forces, it is nevertheless the spiritualizing and reconciling source of every World formation. "'And it is the spiritualizing source of every World formation because it arises and must exist in them as a presence all the time while the given results exist which arise from various unusual mutual resistances occurring between the said two fundamental forces flowing in entirely opposite directions.' "And so, my boy, it was in this sense and in this meaning that the words 'Good' and 'Evil' were first used by this unfortunate Makary Kronbernkzion.' [End quote]

••summary•
The first of these forces constantly arises from the causes which proceed in the Prime Source itself and from the pressure of the newly arisen, and issuing from it by momentum flows out of that Prime Source.
- always manifests outside the source of its arising, must constantly involve
- ''Good''
- Passive


The second World force is what this first force be- comes, when, after having spent the momentum which it has received, it strives to reblend with the source of its arising, according to the fundamental World law called "The effects of a cause must always re-enter the cause.''
- striving to blend with the cause of its arising, must always and in everything evolve.
- ''Bad''
- Active

I also made a sketch of it; it can be wrong!

- And as for the third independent World force, this force is nothing else but only the result of the clash everywhere and in everything of these two fundamental descending and ascending independent forces.
- And it is the spiritualizing source of every World formation because it arises and must exist in them as a presence all the time while the given results exist which arise from various unusual mutual resistances occurring between the said two fundamental forces flowing in entirely opposite directions.

---

#Now I'm going to check on the article ''Karma and the Principle Of Equilibrium''

The following is but one simplistic interpretation of Gurdjieffs cosmology. This brief description, that is written below, is given so it can be used as a frame of reference to better understand the 'Principle Of Equilibrium' that is described by Boris Mouravieff. Excerpts from Mouravieff's book on the 'Principle Of Equilibrium' is also given below.

In the Gurdjieff cosmology, before the creation of the universe, there existed a primordial state of things that he called 'The Absolute' or 'Endlessness' where All was One and One was All. The Absolute was completely independent. There was only one Law in the Absolute, that is, the Absolute was a law unto itself. It depended on nothing external to itself and was completely self sufficient.

However, in order for The Absolute to create anything it needed a residence or "sole point of concentration" to focus its creative activity.

The Absolute then 'begot' a "local residence" that Gurdjieff called the 'Sun Absolute' (The term "begot" is used here since this was all before the creation of the Universe).

The Sun Absolute was held together and maintained by independent forces that consisted of two interlocking laws. In the Sun Absolute these two laws, 'The Law Of Three' and 'The Law Of Seven', were perfectly balanced with respect to each other. This perfect blending of these two primordial Laws is what kept the Sun Absolute stable without any need for influences from outside to sustain it.

? >So 'The Law Of Seven' is 'The Law of Eftogolodiksis'? I think so.

However, nothing ever could change in the Sun Absolute since it was perfectly balanced and static. Nothing could happen there since the Sun Absolute was in a pure potential state of 'Eternal Unchanging.'

And now I understand better what Ark said in one of his posts, why that 'World' was ''perfect'':
"[...]In Gurdjiev's Belzebub we can read something that can be as follows:

First our Creator tried to construct the World that is ''perfect''.[...]"

In order for anything to happen within the Sun Absolute, that is, in order for The Absolute to create anything, then the infinitude of potentialities that comprised it would have to give way to the finitude of actualization. This dynamism is what Gurdjieff called the "merciless Heropass," that is, this is what he called the FLOW OF TIME. The diminution of potentialities that would result whenever anything 'happened' or was 'actualized' within the Sun Absolute, threatened the infinite reservoir of potentialities existing within it, thereby threatening to diminish the volume of the Sun Absolute itself.

The Sun Absolute was now threatened by the "merciless" flow of Time.

In order for the Sun Absolute to maintain its infinite state of potential so as not to suffer a progressive diminuation of potentialities due to their actualization, the Absolute, out of necessity, adjusted or modified the two fundamental laws that comprised the Sun Absolute, so that any created thing would send a counter flow of energy back into the Sun Absolute and maintain its existing (potential) state over time.

? > Here we might wonder just HOW exactly these fundamental laws were adjusted/modified? Once we get to the pages in Gurdjieff's book on this 'subject', we might find this answer.

It was from this changing of these two fundamental laws, where they no longer operated independently but were now dependent on outside forces, that the original independent maintenance of the Sun Absolute became altered into a mutual exchange of force with all created materials.

The result of changing the function of these two fundamental laws directed their actions from within the Sun Absolute outwards into the space of the universe. The redirection of these two fundamental laws outwardly, by the Will of the Absolute, is what Gurdjieff calls the "Theomertmalogos or Word-God," which is, according to Gurdjieff, an "'Emanation-of-the-Sun-Absolute'" which is an 'utterance' or vibration which organizes the undifferentiated Etherkrilno into repeating yet varying patterns of matter/form. This sound vibration, like light and all oscillations, is an energy vector that continuously moves from positive to negative through 'zero', the point of equilibriation between those two directions.

Remember? Earlier we were talking about matter and manifestations of force or energy.
Remember this sentence? :

All these changes can be regarded as the result of vibrations or undulatory motions which begin in the center, that is, in the Absolute, and go in all directions, crossing one another, colliding, and merging together, until they stop altogether at the end of the ray of creation.
And changes = changes in the constant (matter)

So the emanations are these 'vibrations or undulatory motions' ?

Also note: that continuosly moves from POSITIVE (''Good''?) to NEGATIVE (''Bad''?) through 'ZERO'. And this reminds me of the little sketch I made above.

Once these two fundamental laws were changed, then the three forces that comprised the Law Of Three, which were originally united within the Absolute, were now SEPARATED from each other in the phenomenal universe, since they are no longer part of one Whole and can now only be brought together by the PARTS of the whole, due to the division and differentiation that arises from the diversity of phenomenon that comprise the existing universe.

The separation of these three forces, which caused creation, would now spark an inherent striving for these three forces to REBLEND and be reconciled back into the primordial perfection and unification of the Absolute.

Thus, for the ABSOLUTE the three forces are united. But for the UNIVERSE the three forces are separated, and always striving for an equilibration that mirrors their unity within the Absolute.

Which reminds us of the Three Will's as well.

The below excerpts are taken from Mouravieff's book Gnosis Vol.I. pp. 126-134 that relate to The Principle Of Equilibrium and the Law Of Karma:

To summarize, we can say that Life is the effect of a vibratory play at every step of the Universe, a play which in every case takes the form of a perturbation of equilibrium, followed by its restoration.

These perturbations are possible because all that exists in the Universe, though equilibrated, is in unstable equilibrium.

The principle of Equilibrium finds its practical application in compensating for perturbations. Yet rare are the cases where this compensatory action succeeds in reestablishing exactly the ante-actum situation. In general this would not be desirable. As a result of the principle of Imperfection, that exists is in a state of movement. Especially in organic life, the vibratory play - perturbation - compensation - often takes the form of an open cycle -a spiral.

Here we can again constate the perfect logic of the system. know, in fact, that a translational movement - such as evolution - always difficult. The spiral slows the rate of progress, yet makes it easier. In case of a fall, it brakes the regression.

Time, Space and Equilibrium, the three preliminary conditions of the, Manifestation and Creation of the Universe, have given birth to the forces in the created Universe: active, passive and neutralizing, as already mentioned.

The principle of Equilibrium takes dynamic form in their category, as a reactive force with the task of compensating perturbations to restore the balance. Its manifestation always has the character of unilateral reaction. Applied to the whole of the Universe, the principle of Equilibrium acts mechanically and is initiated automatically. As a result, all action, in every place, in every cosmos, is necessarily counterbalanced.

The above considerations allow us to understand and grasp the meaning of certain phenomena which remain unexplained by positive science. To begin with, the great problem of death. As life is born from perturbation, death is necessary because of the principle of Equilibrium. In every case without exception, the perturbation has to be compensated, an equilibrium reestablished. It is by death that compensation is made. Birth on all planes, is the work of a revolutionary and perturbing act which Love. Love itself is born before Creation, with the appearance - in consciousness of the Absolute-of the idea of You, which necessarily arise from that of 'I'. This was the first perturbation of the stable pre-eternal equilibrium. That is why we have good reason, even if only instinctively, contrast Death with Love, and not with Life. It is with equally good reason - against all evidence of the thinking mind - that the human heart feels that

Love is the superior force which is able to overcome Death.

To overcome Death, that is the watchword of esoteric science. But let us early come to a common understanding of the true sense of this expression.

As they propagate themselves, the three forces act throughout the universe. They manifest in the following manner in the System of Cosmoses and the Rays of Creation: Love appears as the active perturbing force, death as the passive stabilizing force, and life as the neutralizing force, which measures out existence between limits defined by the first two. From the preceding, death is an indispensable condition of existence - and therefore of life - the fruit of which, in a later triad, is posterity . The question is whether the fight against death to win eternal life - humanity's highest hope, as preached by all religions - can in reality be undertaken with reasonable chances of success. The question is complex. To resolve it, one must examine it from many points of view. Religions treat this on the plane of belief, and make an article of faith out of it. But now that we are on the threshold of a new Era, that of the Cycle of the Holy Spirit, such a position is no longer entirely satisfying to enlightened minds. They now want to grasp and understand something that yesterday was still considered as an article of Belief.

••summary•
- Time,
- Space and
- Equilibrium,
the three preliminary conditions of the, Manifestation and Creation of the Universe, have given birth to the forces in the created Universe: active, passive and neutralizing, as already mentioned.

--

Love - active perturbing force
Death - passive stabilizing force
Life - neutralizing force
••

It is certainly easier to ask true believers to trust on this question, rather than attempt to explain something so difficult to explain. But esoteric science proposes an answer to the question.

The face of the world changes. The Cycle of the Son, as happened before with that of the Father, is coming to its end. With Christ, the Law received long ago by Moses, came to an end and was replaced by the rule of Faith, Hope and Love. At the present time, with the wars and revolutions of this century, and with the extraordinary progress of positive science, we have entered a period of transition whose purpose is to give us entry to the Cycle of the Holy Spirit. During this period, Faith will be progressively replaced by Knowledge, and Hope will end in Accomplishment. This will be the final triumph of Love; 'For Love will never perish, - even though prophecies will end, tongues will be no more, and knowledge will be abolished."

This reminds me of:

This Law of Threefoldness, in its turn consists of three forces, called 'Surpotheos', 'Surpakiros', and 'Surpathanatos'. But, for convenience, mathematics calls these three forces of the Law of Threefoldness, the force 'Plus', the force 'Minus', and the force 'Neutralizing'; or 'Pushing', 'Resisting', and 'Equilibrium'. On certain planets, these three forces are also called 'God the Father,' 'God the Son' and 'God the Holy Ghost'.

Mouravieff is saying, I think, that we are entering the Cycle of the Holy Spirit. And Gurdjieff said that on certain planets, perhaps earth?, these three forces are also called [...] and 'God the Holy Ghost', which is the Neutralizing force...

In the Tradition, we mean by victory over Death the victory of our perfected Personalities over Death. This is the meaning of Salvatio object of prayers and aim of the religious practices of Christianity. We have already quoted the words of St Paul:

'Behold, I tell you a mystery: we shall all die but we shall all be changed.'

The underlying meaning of the word 'changed' in this sentence lies the fact that all exterior men, as well as those who have reached the levels 5 or 7, will sooner or later be called to leave their physical bodies.

The difference is that the latter will do it as one abandons an old suit to that of another, while the death of the physical body for men 1, 2 or 3 will result the decomposition of their foetal - Personalties. Death is an astral abortion Salvation comes with the second Birth, when the entirely developed at born Personality is indissolubly joined to the real 'I' to form Individuality. Once born, this Individuality no longer depends on the physical body, in the same way that the child who has been born does not die even if his birth has been at the cost of his mother's life. It is this to which the apostle alluded, saying, we shall not all die.

[...] We have established that death is one of the manifestations of principle of Equilibrium, which automatically reacts to the perturbing action of carnal love in the created world. The latter, although perfect, then gives birth to life. Human love is imperfect because it is instinctive and impulsive. As long as man automatically follows his impulses, his love will serve only the cosmic goals of the ensemble. pleasure he always gains from this is as much an equilibrating element as a reward. As it is, it will not serve his esoteric evolution in any way. Love is the surest and most powerful means of achieving this evolution, This is because Love is the one objective element in our lives. That objectivity remains true in all Love's many aspects, and through all variety of its manifestations.

''His love will serve only the cosmic goals of the ensemble.'' AKA ''food for the moon'' ?

[....]
Once karmic action is launched automatically and acts mechanically, compensates for each perturbation on its own plane. Compensation made for each account individually, as in a ledger, and not between totals of good and bad results.
[End Of Quote]

**********

**********

#Now I'd like to take some info from this thread.

Ark writes [emphasis mine]:

Therefore: *the meaning of life*

My hypothesis here is more risky, it is just a working hypothesis.

Our Universe is a complex system. The degree of its complexity is rather high. In this complex system, in some yet to be understood way, "programs" are operating. There is no reason for assuming that these programs are free of bugs. Thus it is not excluded that the Universe has also "debugging mechanisms". Consciousness, intelligence, life itself, may also have - among others - such functions. Therefore the role of intelligence may be this: to discover these bugs in the programs that run in the Universe, and to debug the Universe.

Therefore I am going beyond the pure "self-replication" as the meaning of life (as in Dawkins "Selfish Gene"). Self-replication may be a tool, but not the goal. The goal may be different: to debug the Universe. The time needed for that may be quite long. Moreover, the positive outcome may be not guaranteed. It may well be like with the Halt Problem: there is no way to predict the outcome, what remains is to let the debugging programs run, to allow for its self-modifications.

If we admit this hypothesis, then the question about the role of the intelligence and the meaning of life takes on new colors.

One may ask: but what can we - such "small" creatures - accomplish in the grand scale of the Universe?

An interesting question. Yet we know that in complex systems small changes can lead to unexpected global "phase transitions". We can't exclude that something like this can happen. We can't exclude that admitting such a hypothesis can change completely our perspective on the problem of responsibility of the human kind - this would be just a logical conclusion from our premises

As I wrote above, this is just my working hypothesis, a hypothesis that I am using on a daily basis. It seems to me interesting, it fits all the knowledge that I have (physics, mathematics, philosophy, genetics, biology, psychology). But if I discover new data, then I will re-think my hypothesis again. After all, in order to debug the Universe, we first need to debug ourselves. And here we are coming back, again, to the question of the "truth" and "objectivity".

And in another post we can read [emphasis mine]:

Perhaps it is now time for me to reveil where my idea of 'debugging the Universe' came from:

Gurdjieff, Belzebub, Vol II, Ch. 39, THE HOLY PLANET PURGATORY:

"Our Endlessness, Almighty God, once observed that the Sun-Absolute, itself, on which He existed was, owing to Time, diminishing gradually but perceptibly in volume, and He decided immediately to review all the Laws maintaining the existence of the Sun-Absolute.

"In the course of this search, He discovered that the cause of the diminution of the Sun is the Heropass, that is to say, Time, which gradually diminishes the substance of every force.

"As this question was very serious, He became thoughtful, and in these Divine reflections of His, He saw clearly, that, if this Heropass should continue to reduce the volume of the Sun-Absolute in this way, then sooner or later, it would eventually be to its complete destruction. Our Endlessness was then compelled to undertake several appropriate measures, so that this destruction of the Sun-Absolute from the Heropass should be averted.

"After great labours, He completely averted the whole of the threatened danger; and He accomplished this, in the following way:

"You must know that up till then the Sun-Absolute had in itself, for its existence, only the force of the 'Autoegokrat'; that is, an independent force depending on nothing external itself. This same force, in its turn, was formed only of two Laws, namely, the Law of 'Triamonia' and the Law of 'Eftologodiksis'. To these two Laws, Our Creator added the third force, called 'Fagolgiria', by means of which the 'Autoegokrat' became the 'Trogoautoegokrat', that is, a force depending on other forces exterior to itself. Or, as it might be said, after the addition of the Fagologiria, the Laws of Triamonia and Eftologodiksis could function only by feeding on the substances and forces coming from without.
[...]
Here it is very important to notice well in your consciousness that in the Law of Eftologodiksis, during the process of movement from one center of gravity to another, to the final completion of the whole process, there are gaps, or as they are called 'intervals', in two places, at which intervals there was 'all', when Our Endlessness made the existing, self-supporting and independent forces for the existence of the Sun-Absolute dependent on the foreign forces from without; that is to say, He transformed the Autoegokrat into the Trogoautoegokrat. Well, then, Our Endlessness made, but only in this Law of Eftologodiksis, two gaps or intervals through which forces or substances coming from without should enter. From the time of this change, the Law of Eftologodiksis could no longer completely evolve or involve without foreign help coming through its two intervals. And this according to this property of the Law of Eftologodiksis, by means of these two intervals, it now effects the evolution and involution of substances in the beings composing the Tritacosmoses. That is to say, during the transition of substances from one centre of gravity to another, substances of the fundamental cosmic Triamonia of quite other densties, must, without fail, help in two places. And in those organic machines, such a help proceeds in the following way.[...]

As far as I understand the above "Trogoautoegokrat" is an open system, that is one where it is impossible to "predict" anything - because it is open to "external" influences. But, because of this, there is a hope. we are the "organic machines" that can do something during the "two gaps" - whenever they happen in any cycle.

I THINK I understand this part better now:

"This mechanical movement was specially helped by the fact that the need of food of this, as well as of all other cosmoses, was not continuous but periodic. "When our Endlessness observed this unforeseen phenomenon, the idea first arose in Him for the governance of the enlarged Universe, to create for Himself from these Tritacosomoses, a certain help......

The reason 'the need of food of this' ('this' refers also to I think the Law of Eftologodiksis) was periodic was because forces or substances from without could only enter in two gaps/intervals (and these 'gaps' are 'there' periodically). And so he decided to 'create for Himself from these Tritacosmoses (us?), a certain help. And this 'help' could be, as Ark said: doing '' something during the ''two gaps'' ''.

But then I wonder... Why was this periodic feeding an 'unforeseen phenomenon'?

Or, expressing it in somewhat different terms: we, the organic machines, have a "Free Will", which we can use to "fill the gaps", and to push the Universe this way or another way. Or, still in another way: if a hacker comes to your computer and deletes or corrupts an important system file to introduce chaos, you can restore the file and add something to the system that will create even more order than it was before. But in order to be able to do this - a good knowledge of the operating system is needed. That is why "Knowledge Protects" - not only "us", but also, and more importantly, the System we are functioning in.

Whether my interpretation is correct or not - I do not know. But, knowing all what I know today, I am giving it a rather high probability of going into the right direction. In this way my idea of "debugging the universe" is a re-phrasing, in modern language, of the old idea in Belzebub.

One more comment: according to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, the entropy in a closed system is increasing, the chaos is increasing with time. That is how I read "Our Endlessness, Almighty God, once observed that the Sun-Absolute, itself, on which He existed was, owing to Time, diminishing gradually but perceptibly in volume..." The "volume" stands here, I think, for "order". But the second law of thermodynamics does not apply to an open system. On the other hand an open system is unpredictable. Which is a danger, but also a hope.

#On Ark's website, we can read [emphasis mine]:

So, I think that Reality is multi-faceted and multi-leveled and we are consciously experiencing only one (or a few) of the existing levels and/or facets. The multi-leveled and multi-faceted Realit includes: many worlds, many realms, parallel and perpendicular universes, higher dimensions, higher levels of intelligence and of perception, and very likely a consciousness of which we cannot even conceive.

Some of these concepts have already been integrated into theoretical physics (many worlds, parallel universes, higher dimensions), and can be studied - at least theoretically - with mathematical rigor; while those dealing with mind, consciousness, intelligence, are yet to be integrated. Once that is done, once we admit and realize that that material existence is not all that can be thought of and dealt with using mathematical rigor - new vistas, new hopes and new goals will appear on the horizon. And by doing this, WE will take charge of the evolutionary development of life. BY doing this we will choose to obey our own call from the future. By doing this we will make real what is now only virtual.

I believe that the Universe has Purpose, that it is much like a computer program of great complexity, and that "we" - the IGUS-es - have a role in its evolution. For a while our role can be described simply as "debugging units." In short, my present answer to the question "why are we here?" reads: DEBUGGING THE UNIVERSE.

Universes without life, without feedback from the "observers" have only virtual existence, their future is closed; while "our" future, as well as the future of "our universe," is in my opinion, to large extent, OPEN.

The question of existence of other forms of life is, in particular, one of these tricky questions whose answers are "open". YOU, the Reader, can choose to live in a universe with a "no" answer, but you can also choose to live in a "yes" universe.

I am not saying the choice is going to be easy, or possible at all. Every choice needs an effort. The more important the choice, the more effort it needs. Without making this effort we are simply machines, and then the choices are being made for us - either by pure chance or by others.

So, what I am saying here relates, to some extent, to some of the ideas expanded in Jung's " Flying Saucers. A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Skies ." Let me quote from an article by John Fraim :

' Jung concluded that "news affirming the existence of UFOs is welcome, but that skepticism seems to be undesirable. . .to believe that UFOs are real suits the opinion, whereas disbelief is to be discouraged.... There is a tendency all over the world to believe in saucers and to want them to be real, unconsciously helped along by a press that otherwise has no sympathy with the phenomenon." Jung then asked a most incisive question: "Why should it be more desirable for saucers to exist than not?"

'For Jung, the "desirability" of UFO existence relates to a psychic need and is connected with signaling the end of one era and the beginning of another. It was not a new phenomenon but, rather, one that manifested the change of archetypes that constellate around the end of one age and the beginning of another. As he wrote in the introduction to Flying Saucers: "It is not presumption that drives me, but my conscience as a psychiatrist that bids spare those few who will fulfill my duty and prepare those few which are in accord with the end of an era."

'Jung found precedence for these archetypal harbingers of change in preceding periods of history that involved the collective psyche: As we know from ancient Egyptian history, there are manifestations of psychic changes which always appear at the end of one Platonic month and at the beginning of another. Apparently they are changes in the constellations of psychic dominants, of the archetypes, or "gods" as they used to be called, which bring about, or accompany, long-lasting transformation of the collective psyche.

'The changes in archetypes seem to have a connection to major movements in astrological houses. "This transformation, " noted Jung, "started in the historical era and left its traces first in the passing of the aeon of Taurus into that of Aries, and then of Aries into Pisces, whose beginning coincides with the rise of Christianity. We are now nearing that great change which may be expected when the spring-point enters Aquarius."'

#In this thread, we can read (post by Laura):

“We must remember that the ray of creation... is like a branch of a tree. ... Growth depends on organic life on earth. ...If organic life is arrested in its development, in its evolution, and fails to respond to the demands made upon it, the branch may wither. This must be remembered.”

“To this ray of creation, exactly the same possibility of development and growth has been given as is given to each separate branch of a big tree. But the accomplishment of this growth is not at all guaranteed. It depends upon the harmonious and right action of its own tissues.”

Organic life on earth is a complex phenomenon in which the separate parts depend upon one another. General growth is possible only on the condition that the ‘end of the branch’ grows. Or, speaking more precisely, there are in organic life tissues which are evolving, and there are tissues which serve as food and medium for those which are evolving. Then there are evolving cells within the evolving tissues, and cells which serve as food and medium for those which are evolving. In each separate evolving cell there are evolving parts and there are parts which serve as food for those which are evolving. But always and in everything it must be remembered that evolution is never guaranteed, it is possible only and it can stop at any moment and in any place.”

“The evolving part of organic life on earth is humanity. If humanity does not evolve it means that the evolution of organic life will stop and this, in its turn will cause the growth of our ray of creation to stop.”

“At the same time if humanity ceases to evolve it becomes useless from the point of view of the aims for which it was created and as such it may be destroyed. In this way the cessation of evolution may mean the destruction of humanity.”

“We have no clues from which we are able to tell in what period of planetary evolution we exist. We cannot know this but we should bear in mind that the number of possibilities is never infinite.”

“At the same time in examining the life of humanity as we know it historically we are bound to acknowledge that humanity is moving in a circle. It one century it destroys everything it creates in another and the progress in mechanical things of the past hundred years has proceeded at the cost of losing many other things which perhaps were much more important for it.”

“Speaking in general there is every reason to think and to assert that humanity is at a standstill, and from a standstill there is a straight path to downfall and degeneration.”

“A standstill means that a process has become balanced. The appearance of any one quality immediately evokes the appearance of another quality opposed to it. The growth of knowledge in one domain evokes the growth of ignorance in another; refinement on the one hand evokes vulgarity on the other; freedom in one connection evokes slavery in another; the disappearance of some superstitions evokes the appearance and growth of others; and so on.”

“A balanced process proceeding in a certain way cannot be changed at any moment it is desired. It can be changed and set on a new path only at certain ‘crossroads’. In between the crossroads nothing can be done.”

“At the same time if a process passes by a crossroad and nothing happens, nothing is done, then nothing can be done afterwards and the process will continue and develop according to mechanical laws; and even if the people taking part in this process foresee the inevitable destruction of everything, they will be unable to do anything.”

“I repeat that something can be done only at certain moments which I have just called ‘crossroads’ and which in octaves, we have called the ‘intervals’.”

“The process of evolution, of that evolution which is possible for humanity as a whole, is completely analogous to the process of evolution possible for the individual man. And it begins with the same thing, namely, a certain group of cells gradually becomes conscious; then it attracts to itself other cells, subordinates others, and gradually makes the whole organism serve its aims and not merely eat, drink and sleep.”

“In humanity as in individual man everything begins with the formation of a conscious nucleus. All the mechanical forces of life fight against the formation of this conscious nucleus in humanity, in just the same way as all mechanical habits, tastes, and weaknesses fight against conscious awareness in man.”

“Can it be said that there is a conscious force which fights against the evolution of humanity?”, Ouspensky asked.

“From a certain point of view it can be said”, said G.

“Where can this force come from?”, Ouspensky asked.

“There are two processes which are sometimes called ‘involutionary’ and ‘evolutionary’. The difference between them is the following: An involutionary process begins consciously in the absolute but at the next step it already becomes mechanical - and it becomes more and more mechanical as it develops; an evolutionary process begins half-consciously but it becomes more and more conscious as it develops.”

“But consciousness and conscious opposition to the evolutionary process can also appear at certain moments in the involutionary process.”

“From where does this consciousness come?”

“From the evolutionary process of course. The evolutionary process must proceed without interruption. Any stop causes a separation from the fundamental process. Such separate fragments of consciousnesses which have been stopped in their development can also unite and at any rate for a certain time can live by struggling against the evolutionary process. After all, it merely makes the evolutionary process more interesting.”

“Instead of struggling against mechanical forces there may, at certain moments, be a struggle against the intentional opposition of fairly powerful forces though they are not of course comparable with those which direct the evolutionary process.”

“These opposing forces may somethimes even conquer.”

“The reason for this consists in the fact that the forces guiding evolution have a more limited choice of means; in other words, they can only make use of certain means and certain methods. The opposing forces are not limited in their choice of means and they are able to make use of every means, even those which only give rise to a temporary success, and in the final result they destory both evolution and involution at the point in question.”

“Are we able to say for instance that life is governed by a group of conscious people? Where are they? Who are they?”

“We see exactly the opposite: that life is governed by those who are the least conscious, by those who are most asleep.”

“Are we able to say that we observe in life a preponderance of the best, the strongest, and the most courageous elements?”

“Nothing of the sort. On the contrary we see a preponderance of vulgarity and stupidity of all kinds.”

“Are we able to say that aspirations towards unity, towards unification, can be observed in life?”

“Nothing of the kind of course. We only see new divisions, new hostility, new misunderstanndings.”

“So that in the actual situation of humanity there is nothing that points to evolution proceeding.”

“On the contrary, when we compare humanity with a man we quite clearly see a growth of personality at the cost of essence, that is, a growth of the artificial, the unreal, and what is foreign, at the cost of the natural, the real, and what is one’s own.”

“Together with this we see a growth of automatism.”

“Contemporary culture requires automatons. And people are undoubtedly losing their acquired habits of independence and turning into automatons, into parts of machines.”

“It is impossible to say where is the end of all this and where the way out - or whether there is an end and a way out. One thing alone is certain, that man’s slavery grows and increases. Man is becoming a willing slave. He no longer needs chains. He begins to grow fond of his slavery, to be proud of it. And this is the most terrible thing that can happen to a man.”

Carlos Castaneda puts the problem another way in the words of don Juan:

“You have arrived, by your effort alone, to what the shamans of ancient Mexico called the topic of topics. I have been beating around the bush all this time, insinuating to you that something is holding us prisoner. Indeed we are held prisoner! This was an energetic fact for the sorcerers of ancient Mexico. [...] They took over because we are food for them, and they squeeze us mercilessly because we are their sustenance. Just as we rear chickens in chicken coops, the predators rear us in human coops. Therefore, their food is always available to them

This, of course, takes us to Gurdjieff’s story of the Evil Magician which we have already discussed. We should pay particular attention to this remark made by Gurdjieff:

The evolving part of organic life on earth is humanity. If humanity does not evolve it means that the evolution of organic life will stop and this, in its turn will cause the growth of our ray of creation to stop.
At the same time if humanity ceases to evolve it becomes useless from the point of view of the aims for which it was created and as such it may be destroyed. In this way the cessation of evolution may mean the destruction of humanity.

In short, based on an objective assessment of the world around us, we are in deep trouble. In another place, Gurdjieff makes a rather spooky remark:

“There is a definite period”, he said, “for a certain thing to be done. If, by a certain time, what ought to be done has not been done, the earth may perish without having attained what it could have attained.”

“Is this period known?”, I asked.

“It is known”, said G. “But it would be no advantage whatever for people to know it. It would even be worse. Some would believe it, others would not believe it, yet others would demand proofs. Afterwards they would begin to break one another’s heads. Everything ends this way with people.”

Gurdjieff gave other hints about this, though I expect that he didn’t fully know the details since his own work was that of one who prepares the ground and plants the seeds that are crucial to us now when considering the Cassiopaean “Mission”. In this passage, Gurdjieff returns again to the subject of evolution which, as he pointed out, has stopped in humanity.

“Everything I have said till now I have said about the whole of humanity. But as I pointed out before, the evolution of humanity can proceed only through the evolution of a certain group, which, in its turn, will influence and lead the rest of humanity.”

“Are we able to say that such a group exists? Perhaps we can on the basis of certain signs, but in any event we have to acknowledge that it is a very small group, quite insufficient, at any rate, to subjugate the rest of humanity. Or, looking at it from another point of view, we can say that humanity is in such a state that it is unable to accept the guidance of a conscious group.”

“How many people could there be in this conscious group?”, someone asked.

“Only they themselves know this”, said G.

“Does it mean that they all know each other?”, asked the same person again.

“How could it be otherwise?”, asked G.

“Imagine that there are two or three people who are awake in the midst of a multitude of sleeping people. They will certainly know each other. But those who are asleep cannot know them. How many are they? We do not know and we cannot know until we become like them.”

“It has been clearly said before that each man can only see on the level of his own being. But two hundred conscious people, if they existed and if they found it necessary and legitimate, could change the whole of life on the earth. But either there are not enough of them, or they do not want to, or perhaps the time has not yet come, or perhaps other people are sleeping too soundly.”

"This mechanical movement was specially helped by the fact that the need of food of this, as well as of all other cosmoses, was not continuous but periodic. "When our Endlessness observed this unforeseen phenomenon, the idea first arose in Him for the governance of the enlarged Universe, to create for Himself from these Tritacosomoses, a certain help......

If we are this 'certain help' or if Free Will is this 'certain help' then we might be able to 'Do something' in those intervals, when they 'occur'.

Next I'm going to post parts from the Book ''Beelzebubs tales to his Grandson'' , chapter 39 'The Holy Planet Purgatory', which might clear some things up about these intervals and the two interlocking laws.

 

[Al Today]

There are those out here who depend upon this forum for information such as you’ve worked so hard to provide. Circumstances may provide no (if not easy) way to access books, or be able to read at home. I cannot thank you enough for the information you have provided. And thank you for considering those of us out here who are trying, want to learn something. The following still just blows me away:

"The souls that go to the moon, possessing perhaps even a certain amount of consciousness and memory, find themselves there under ninety-six laws, in the conditions of mineral life, or to put it differently, in conditions from which there is no escape apart from a general evolution in immeasurably long planetary cycles. The moon is 'at the extremity,' at the end of the world; it is the 'outer darkness' of the Christian doctrine 'where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

"The influence of the moon upon everything living manifests itself in all that happens on the earth. The moon is the chief, or rather, the nearest, the immediate, motive force of all that takes place in organic life on the earth. All movements, actions, and manifestations of people, animals, and plants depend upon the moon and are controlled by the moon. The sensitive film of organic life which covers the earthly globe is entirely dependent upon the influence of the huge electromagnet that is sucking out its vitality. Man, like every other living being, cannot, in the ordinary conditions of life, tear himself free from the moon. All his movements and consequently all his actions are controlled by the moon. If he kills another man, the moon does it; if he sacrifices himself for others, the moon does that also. All evil deeds, all crimes, all self-sacrificing actions, all heroic exploits, as well as all the actions of ordinary everyday life, are controlled by the moon. [p.98]

FOOD FOR THE MOON, yep…
There is much to contemplate/digest here.

"The liberation which comes with the growth of mental powers and faculties is liberation from the moon. The mechanical part of our life depends upon the moon, is subject to the moon. If we develop in our selves consciousness and will, and subject our mechanical life and all our mechanical manifestations to them, we shall escape from the power of the moon. [p.99]

Finally, is this a possible explanation the gives hope? Seems so to me…

Good golly, as I read this I started to get abdominal cramps, nauseous and perspiration (downright sweating). Right out of the blue! For no reason that I know of. What the hey? Attack maybe? I gotta get up and walk around. Does something wanna get me away from this? I DO wonder… Coincidence or MuWaHaHa.?.?.?

20 minutes later. The pain has subsided and now I wish to comment. I am in my 50’s. I came across Laura’s writing only a few years ago. I was raised with narcissism and in monotheism and boy, has my outlook changed.!.!.! Slowly, my spouse is beginning to question this world, as I now do. Even my children have been exposed to my comments of THE WORK, and their minds are opening. No preaching or authoritative comments by me. Just off the cuff remarks to spark questioning. If I am told I’m crazy, I just leave it be.
Many speak of a ‘battle’ between STO & STS. To understand the nature of this so-called ‘battle’, one, perhaps, has to become familiar with theories of how the universe works… There may indeed be ‘bad’ dudes out there that, for their survival, needing to “grow food”, us, our energy. Maybe they need us to go to the moon, make us more material, generate a “weeping and gnashing of teeth”.?.?.? If one can choose… Perhaps that is the goal? To gain enough knowledge to choose between “absorption for STS and radiance for STO”. There is so very much to contemplate and hopefully understand, learn. Again, Thank you OXAJIL, and keep up THE WORK.

I like your statement:

If we are this 'certain help' or if Free Will is this 'certain help' then we might be able to 'Do something'

Perhaps CHOOSE?

 

[Oxajil]

There are those out here who depend upon this forum for information such as you’ve worked so hard to provide. Circumstances may provide no (if not easy) way to access books, or be able to read at home. I cannot thank you enough for the information you have provided. And thank you for considering those of us out here who are trying, want to learn something.

You're welcome Al Today!

"The liberation which comes with the growth of mental powers and faculties is liberation from the moon. The mechanical part of our life depends upon the moon, is subject to the moon. If we develop in our selves consciousness and will, and subject our mechanical life and all our mechanical manifestations to them, we shall escape from the power of the moon. [p.99]

Finally, is this a possible explanation the gives hope? Seems so to me…

Yes indeed. I think that when we start working on ourselves and try to 'free' ourselves from these 48 forces, orders of laws or 'will's' by being honest to our selves, observing our selves, analyzing our selves, registrating etc. we might be able to 'develop in our selves consciousness and will' or close to this. And this could be hope to us, indeed. As Gurdjieff said here:

"On the earth we are very far removed from the will of the Absolute; we are separated from it by forty-eight orders of mechanical laws. If we could free ourselves from one half of these laws, we should find ourselves subject to only twentyfour orders of laws, that is, to the laws of the planetary world, and then we should be one stage nearer to the Absolute and its will. If we could then free ourselves from one half of these laws, we should be subject to the laws of the sun (twelve laws) and consequently one stage nearer still to the Absolute. If, again, we could free ourselves from half of these laws, we should be subject to the laws of the starry world and separated by only one stage from the immediate will of the Absolute.

"And the possibility for man thus gradually to free himself from mechanical laws exists.

"The study of the forty-eight orders of laws to which man is subject cannot be abstract like the study of astronomy; they can be studied only by observing them in oneself and by getting free from them. At the beginning a man must simply understand that he is quite needlessly subject to a thousand petty but irksome laws which have been created for him by other people and by himself. When he attempts to get free from them he will see that he cannot. Long and persistent attempts to gain freedom from them will convince him of his slavery. The laws to which man is subject can only be studied by struggling with them, by trying to get free from them. But a great deal of knowledge is needed in order to become free from one law without creating for oneself another in its place.

Good golly, as I read this I started to get abdominal cramps, nauseous and perspiration (downright sweating). Right out of the blue! For no reason that I know of. What the hey? Attack maybe? I gotta get up and walk around. Does something wanna get me away from this? I DO wonder… Coincidence or MuWaHaHa.?.?.?

Hmm, perhaps these are some of the side-effects of some kind of DNA-changing?

20 minutes later. The pain has subsided and now I wish to comment. I am in my 50’s. I came across Laura’s writing only a few years ago. I was raised with narcissism and in monotheism and boy, has my outlook changed.!.!.! Slowly, my spouse is beginning to question this world, as I now do. Even my children have been exposed to my comments of THE WORK, and their minds are opening. No preaching or authoritative comments by me. Just off the cuff remarks to spark questioning. If I am told I’m crazy, I just leave it be.
Many speak of a ‘battle’ between STO & STS. To understand the nature of this so-called ‘battle’, one, perhaps, has to become familiar with theories of how the universe works… There may indeed be ‘bad’ dudes out there that, for their survival, needing to “grow food”, us, our energy. Maybe they need us to go to the moon, make us more material, generate a “weeping and gnashing of teeth”.?.?.? If one can choose… Perhaps that is the goal? To gain enough knowledge to choose between “absorption for STS and radiance for STO”. There is so very much to contemplate and hopefully understand, learn. Again, Thank you OXAJIL, and keep up THE WORK.

Maybe they ''are'' the moon? Or not? In the transcripts we can read:

--
Q: (L) Georges Gurdjieff proposed the idea that the earth is, in a sense, food for the moon. What he meant was, what he had learned from these ancient teachers was that earth was a food source for some level of being, and that possibly these beings had encampments or bases on the moon, but that earth was eventually to become a star and that then the moon would become an inhabited planet as the earth was, and so on... Is this a fairly...
A: Close.
--

Much to contemplate indeed!

If we are this 'certain help' or if Free Will is this 'certain help' then we might be able to 'Do something'

Perhaps CHOOSE?

Yes Choose! But before one can Choose one must first work on oneself. Because maybe I will choose today to do the Work every day, but then tomorrow it seems that I've already 'broken' this choice by not doing anything related to the Work! ..or I have forgotten why I even made this choice.

 

[Al Today]

Good golly, as I read this I started to get abdominal cramps, nauseous and perspiration (downright sweating). Right out of the blue! For no reason that I know of. What the hey? Attack maybe? I gotta get up and walk around. Does something wanna get me away from this? I DO wonder… Coincidence or MuWaHaHa.?.?.?

Hmm, perhaps these are some of the side-effects of some kind of DNA-changing?

In retrospect, I do have a couple abdominal hernias. They've been dormant so long, I almost forgot about them/it. But anyway, I don't know why they/it were/was triggered at that moment...

 

[Pierre]

In retrospect, I do have a couple abdominal hernias. They've been dormant so long, I almost forgot about them/it. But anyway, I don't know why they/it were/was triggered at that moment...

According to Louise Hay emotional diagnostics, Hernia means "Ruptured relationships. Strain, burdens. Incorrect creative expression".

I don't know if it can help or if it fits your situation.

 

[mamadrama]

I've only gotten through half of your post but so far it's great. Thanks, Oxajil.

I'll post more later but just quickly on this:

Here, I'm wondering what he means with 'His Cherubim and Seraphim'.

You've probably already checked this but the only reference on Cassiopedia to cherubim is this:

However, John Milton featured Beelzebub as merely being one of the many fallen cherubim in the epic poem Paradise Lost, first published in 1667.

I found two interesting Gurdjieff sites if you don't know about them you might find them helpful; The Gurdjieff Journal and the other is a glossary.

Here are a couple of entries I found on these sites for cherubim:

awareness

"It is necessary to tell you that concerning the determination of the degrees of individuality, our cherubim and seraphim also then at the very beginning established that still now existing sacred 'Determinator-of-Reason' which is applied for the determination of the gradations of Reason or, more exactly, the totality-of-self-awareness' of all separate large and small cosmic concentrations, and by which not only are the gradations of their Reason measured, but there is also determined their, as it is called 'degree-of-justification-of-the-sense-and-aim-of-their-existence', and also the further role of each separate Individual in relation to everything existing in our great Megalocosmos. [XXXIX]

In the beginning, when nothing yet existed and when the whole of our Universe was empty endless space with the presence of only the prime-source cosmic substance Etherokrilno, our present Most Great and Most Most Holy Sun Absolute existed alone in all this empty space, and it was on this then sole cosmic concentration that our UNI-BEING CREATOR with HIS cherubim and seraphim had the place of his most glorious Being. 4449 Chapter XXXIX.

From the third most sacred canticle of our cherubim and seraphim, we were worthy of learning that our CREATOR OMNIPOTENT once ascertained that this same Sun Absolute, on which HE dwelt with HIS cherubim and seraphim was, although almost imperceptibly yet nevertheless gradually, diminishing in volume. 4453 Chapter XXXIX

_http://www.filoinfo.bem-vindo.net/tradicion/index.php?a=term&d=5&t=63

The Redeemed Beelzebub
Pondering Chapter XLVII
Returning to the chapter's beginning, we see that several archangels, a multitude of angels, cherubim and seraphim meet with Beelzebub's tribe in the main hall of the spaceship Karnak (the name calling up the great temple complex in ancient Thebes). Gurdjieff observes that these two groups are not the same but are "differently natured three-brained beings." What is this nature? Has the angelic ever been portrayed with horns? And what are horns? For a preliminary exposition, see TGJ #27, "Horns of Being."

_http://www.thegurdjieffjournal.org/articles/pondering_chapter.htm

 

[Al Today]

According to Louise Hay emotional diagnostics, Hernia means "Ruptured relationships. Strain, burdens. Incorrect creative expression".

I don't know if it can help or if it fits your situation.

Interesting, thank you for the reference, got me thinking.
Relationships: are in a happy state :D, but of course there are some people that I watch (for trouble) and wouldn't call a friend. ;)
Creative expression: Work for me is a blast, so I get to create software, kinda like working with puzzles, every day. :D
Burdens: Yeah, gotta survive on this dark back alley BBM at the outskirts of the universe. :/
Strain: Most have strain. Just gotta deal with it, accept it, or adjust if possible.

I think I see where your leading and yes, I do think the mind can cause physical problems...
Been there, Done that...

 

[Oxajil]

You've probably already checked this but the only reference on Cassiopedia to cherubim is this:

Actually I haven't. I must say it's quite interesting, thanks for posting it! I will definitely come back to that. I think that Cherubim and Seraphim is something that is mentioned throughout the whole book.

This is what I found (p. 170 - 686 - 687 - 697 - 699 - 1024 - 1060):

"This time the reasons for my descent to the surface of that I planet were related to the following events:

"One day, on the planet Mars, we received an etherogram from the Center announcing the imminent appearance of certain Most High Sacred Individuals. And in fact, within half a Martian year, a number of archangels, angels, cherubim, and seraphim did appear there, the majority of whom had been members of the Most High Commission that had come to Mars at the time of the first great catastrophe to the planet Earth.

"In the beginning, when nothing yet existed and when the whole of our Universe was empty endless space, with the presence only of the prime-source cosmic substance 'ethernokrilno,' our Most Great and Most Most Holy Sun Absolute existed alone in all this empty space, and it was on this sole cosmic concentration that our Uni-Being Creator with His cherubim and seraphim had the place of His Most Glorious Being.

[...]

"We were privileged to learn from the third most sacred canticle of our cherubim and seraphim that our Omnipotent Creator once ascertained that the Sun Absolute, on which He dwelt with His cherubim and seraphim, was almost imperceptibly, yet steadily, diminishing in volume.

"Furthermore, we were found worthy of learning, again from a sacred canticle of our cherubim and seraphim but this time the fifth sacred canticle, that after this divine ascertainment of His, our Endlessness devoted Himself entirely to finding some way of averting this inevitable end, ordained by the lawful commands of the merciless Heropass, and that, after long divine eliberations, He decided to create our now existing 'Megalocosmos.'

Here I must tell you that when this vast divine actualization was completed, our triumphant cherubim and seraphim gave for the first time to all the newly arisen concentrations the names that exist even today They then defined every 'relatively independent' concentration by the word 'cosmos,' and to distinguish the different orders of arising of these cosmoses, they added to this term a specific corresponding name.

"Our cherubim also gave names, still existing today, to the emanations and radiations issuing from all these cosmoses of different scales, by means of which the Most Great Cosmic Trogoautoegocrat proceeds.

"That this idea arose then for the first time in our Endlessness we can also hear from the words of the sacred canticles with which, at all divine solemnities, our cherubim and seraphim extol the marvelous works of our Creator.

"This was because my friends notified me from the Center that there would shortly appear on the planet Mars one of the cherubim close to our All-Embracing Endlessness, with some command that concerned me.
"Soon after my return to the planet Mars, the cherub did indeed make his appearance there The command given him from Above concerning me was that, owing to my conscious labors to bring about results for the common-cosmic welfare—labors that had led to the abolition of the practice of 'sacrificial offerings' among the three-brained beings who have taken your fancy—and also owing to the personal petition of His Conformity, the Angel Looisos, before our Common Father Endlessness, the punishment for my personal transgression was reduced in the sense that thenceforward it would no longer include my posterity.

"In fact, for the resolution of this question, my old friend had in mind Individuals with quite other data and possibilities than those of my friends on Saturn, who were simply ordinary three-brained beings He probably did not suspect that as regards such questions, these ordinary three-brained beings, who acquire information about all sorts of real cosmic facts thanks only to their 'being-partkdolgduty,' are in most cases more competent than any of the angels or cherubim with their ready-made Being who, though perfected in Reason to high gradations, may nonetheless, as regards practical confrontation, appear to be merely such individuals as our always respected Mullah Nasr Eddin describes in the following words.

" 'Never will he understand the sufferings of another, who has not experienced them himself, though he have divine Reason and the nature of a genuine devil!' "

So what could 'they' be? Messengers or are they some kind of 'signs'? Or are they people, a type?

 

[Oxajil]

Part I
Continuing with parts from Gurdjieff's book:

I will only post parts that I think are important.

Starting at page 687 [emphasis mine]:
(the terminology might differ a bit, but I'll try to clear that up)

First you can read that our Endlessness saw that the Sun-Absolute was shrinking and that it was because of Heropass, which is Time etc. And that the system was independent (before he 'edited' it) etc

This system was based on those two fundamental sacred cosmic laws by which the whole of our Megalocosmos is still maintained, namely, on the two primordial cosmic laws called the sacred 'Heptaparaparshinokh' and the sacred 'Triamazikamno.'

••summary•

Heptaparaparshinokh = Eftologodiksis / Law of Seven
Triamazikamno = Triamona / Law of Three

••

Now there comes some info about the Law of Seven/Eftologodiksis/Heptaparaparshinokh. In the quote which was posted by a casschat member we can read about this law: The flowing of the line of a force which constantly deflects according to the law, with its ends meeting again.

"The first of these fundamental primordial sacred cosmic laws, namely the law of Heptaparaparshinokh, is formulated by cosmic Objective Science in the following words:
'The flow of forces follows a line that constantly deflects at specific intervals and unites again at its ends. '
"According to this primordial sacred cosmic law, the line of the flow of forces has seven points of deflection or, as is otherwise said, seven 'centers of gravity,' and the distance between two consecutive points of deflection, or 'centers of gravity,' is called a 'stopinder of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh.'
"The complete process of this sacred law, acting through everything newly arising and existing, is always made up of seven stopinders.

Hmm Ok.. So this force or Law deflects seven times... This 'moment' or point of deflection is also called 'center of gravity' and the distance between two consecutive points of deflection is then called a 'stopinder'. Ok let's sum this up:

••summary•

Point of deflection - Center of gravity
Distance between two consecutive points of deflection - stopinder (of the sacred Heptaparapashinokh)
or [Distance between two centers of gravity]

••

I also made a rough sketch, which could be wrong! But this is how I understood it:

This may remind of us:

Here it is very important to notice well in your consciousness that in the Law of Eftologodiksis, during the process of movement from one center of gravity to another, to the final completion of the whole process, there are gaps, or as they are called 'intervals', in two places, at which intervals there was 'all', when Our Endlessness made the existing, self-supporting and independent forces for the existence of the Sun-Absolute dependent on the foreign forces from without; that is to say, He transformed the Autoegokrat into the Trogoautoegokrat. Well, then, Our Endlessness made, but only in this Law of Eftologodiksis, two gaps or intervals through which forces or substances coming from without should enter. From the time of this change, the Law of Eftologodiksis could no longer completely evolve or involve without foreign help coming through its two intervals. And this according to this property of the Law of Eftologodiksis, by means of these two intervals, it now effects the evolution and involution of substances in the beings composing the Tritacosmoses. That is to say, during the transition of substances from one centre of gravity to another, substances of the fundamental cosmic Triamonia of quite other densties, must, without fail, help in two places. And in those organic machines, such a help proceeds in the following way.

So.. 'there are two intervals through which forces or substances coming from without should enter' and 'substances of the fundamental cosmis Traimonia of quite other densities, must, without fail, HELP in TWO places.
And in those organic machines, such a HELP proceeds in the following way.'

So apparently, we (I think) should help, without fail, to do something or 'fill' perhaps? these two places/gaps/intervals whenever they are 'there'. But what exactly is meant with two intervals ? Perhaps further reading could make that clear for us.

[Italicized by me also]

"And as regards the second fundamental primordial cosmic law, namely the sacred Triamazikamno, cosmic Objective Science formulates it in these terms.

'A new arising from the previously arisen through the "harnel-miatznel," the process of which is actualized thus the higher blends with the lower in order together to actualize the middle, and thus to become either higher for the preceding lower or lower for the succeeding higher.

"As I have already told you, this sacred Triamazikamno consists of three independent forces, which are called:
the first, 'surp-otheos' the second, 'surp-skiros' the third, 'surp-athanotos'

"Objective Science calls these three holy forces of the sacred Triamazikamno by the following names:

the first, the 'affirming force' or the 'pushing force' or simply the 'force plus' the second, the 'denying force' or the 'resisting force' or simply the 'force minus' the third, the 'reconciling force' or the 'equilibrating force' or the 'neutralizing force '

"At this place in my explanations concerning the fundamental laws of 'world-creation' and 'world-maintenance,' it is interesting to note, by the way, that the three-brained beings of this planet that has taken your fancy, during the period before the consequences of the properties of the organ kundabuffer had been crystallized in their common presence, began to be aware of these three holy forces of the sacred Triamazikamno, which they named:

the first, 'God the Father' the second, 'God the Son' and the third, 'God the Holy Ghost '

"In various circumstances they expressed the hidden meaning of these forces and their longing to receive from them a beneficent effect for their own individuality by the following prayers:

Sources of divine
rejoicings, revolts, and sufferings,
direct your actions upon us

Holy Affirming, Holy Denying,
Holy Reconciling, transubstantiate
in me for my being

or

Holy God, Holy the Firm, Holy the
Immortal, have mercy on us

••summary•
'surp-otheos' - 'affirming force' - 'pushing force' - 'force plus' - 'God the Father'
'surp-skiros' - the 'denying force' - 'resisting force' - 'force minus' - 'God the Son'
'surp-athanotos' - 'reconciling force' - 'equilibrating force' - 'neutralizing force- 'God the Holy Ghost '
••

[...]

"Our Common Father Uni-Being Endlessness, having decided to change the principle of the maintenance of existence of that still unique cosmic concentration and sole place of His Most Glorious Being, first altered the functioning itself. of these two primordial sacred laws, and He made the greater change in the law of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh.

"This change in the functioning of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh consisted in the alteration of what is called the 'subjective action' of three of its 'stopinders.' In one He lengthened the law-conformable duration, in another He shortened it, and in a third, disharmonized it.

"To provide the stopinder between the third and fourth 'points of deflection' with the required property of absorbing for its functioning the automatic inflow of all surrounding forces, He prolonged its duration.

"And this is the stopinder of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh which is still called the 'mechano-coinciding mdnelin. '

"And the stopinder that He shortened is between the last 'point of deflection' and the beginning of a new cycle of the completing process of this sacred law By this shortening, in order to facilitate the beginning of a new cycle, He predetermined that the functioning of this stopinder would depend solely upon the influx through that stopinder of external forces resulting from the action of that cosmic concentration itself in which the completing process of this primordial sacred law is flowing.

"And this stopinder of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh is the one that is still called the 'intentionally actualized mdnelin. '

"As regards the third stopinder which was changed in its subjective action and which is fifth in the series and called 'harnel-aoot,' its disharmony came about by itself, simply as a result of the change of the other two stopinders.

"This disharmony of its subjective functioning, resulting from its 'asymmetry' in relation to the whole process of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh, consists in the following:

"If the completing process of this sacred law flows in conditions in which it is subject to many 'extraneously' caused' vibrations, its functioning produces only external results.

"But if this same process takes place in absolute quiet, in the absence of any extraneously caused vibrations whatever, all the results of the functioning of this stopinder remain within that concentration in which the process is completed, and these results only become perceptible to the outside on direct and immediate contact with it.

"But if during the functioning of this process neither of these two sharply opposite conditions predominates, the results of its action usually divide into the external and the internal.

"Thus from that time on, the actualization of the primordial sacred law of Heptaparaparshinokh began to proceed in the greatest as well as the smallest cosmic concentrations with the subjective action of its stopinders changed in this way.

Hmm, quite difficult!

••summary•
So these are the changes:

change:
- Between the third and fourth 'point of deflection'
- He prolonged its duration
- For the required property of absorbing for its functioning the automatic inflow of all surrounding forces
- This stopinder (between the 3rd and 4th) is called 'mechano-coinciding mdnelin'

change:
- Between the last 'point of deflection' and the beginning of a new cycle
- He shortened its duration
- To facilitate the beginning of a new cycle [the functioning of this stopinder would depend solely upon the influx through that stopinder (the mechano-coinciding mdnelin one??) of external forces resulting from the action of that cosmis concentration itself in which the completing process of this primordial sacred law is flowing]
-This stopinder (between the last and beginning) is called 'intentionally actualized mdnelin'

change:
- Fifth stopinder
- Disharmonized by itself
- As a result of the change of the other two stopinder
- This fifth stopinder is called 'harnel-aoot'

(side comment: Didn't I read 'harnel-aoot' before? . Ah look:

"And as regards the second fundamental primordial cosmic law, namely the sacred Triamazikamno (Law of Three), cosmic Objective Science formulates it in these terms:

'A new arising from the previously arisen through the "harnel-miatznel," the process of which is actualized thus the higher blends with the lower in order together to actualize the middle, and thus to become either higher for the preceding lower or lower for the succeeding higher.

.. quite interesting..)

? > I'm still trying to figure out what exactly is meant here:

*If the completing process of this sacred law flows in conditions in which it is subject to MANY 'extraneously' caused' vibrations, its functioning produces ONLY EXTERNAL RESULTS

*If the completing process of this sacred law flows in absolute quiet, in the ABSENCE of ANY extraneously caused vibrations whatever, all the results of the functioning of this stopinder REMAIN WITHIN that concentration in which the process is completed, and these results only become perceptible to the outside on DIRECT and IMMEDIATE contact with it.

*If neither of these two sharply opposite conditions predominates, the results of its actions usually DIVIDE into the EXTERNAL and the INTERNAL.

Again, I made a sketch of this. However I think it's wrong, because as you can see, the fifth stopinder didn't 'change' here, but the 1st and the 4th did (Also the text said: resulting from its 'asymmetry' in relation to the whole process of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh and mine doesn't look that asymmetric I think...) Perhaps some kind of formula could make this correct, one that could 'make sure' that the 5th stopinder changes due to the other two changes. Or I haven't sketched this right at all.

? > Anyways, perhaps these first two changes are those two intervals... ?

Also hmmm, if I compare:

Q: (L) Do they come here every time the comet cluster is approaching to sap the souls energy created by the fear, chaos and so forth?
A: Yes.

with:

*If the completing process of this sacred law flows in conditions in which it is subject to MANY 'extraneously' caused' vibrations, its functioning produces ONLY EXTERNAL RESULTS

I see some kind of connection, though I'm not sure. Could these 'extraneously caused vibrations' be the same as our emotions, as our food for the 'moon' ? If so, then what could these 'external results' be? hm..

"I repeat, my boy, try very hard to understand everything relating to both these fundamental cosmic laws, since knowledge of these two sacred laws, especially knowledge of the particularities of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh, will help you later to understand very well and easily all the second-order and third-order laws of 'world-creation' and 'world-existence. '

"Furthermore, an all-around awareness of everything concerning these sacred laws makes it possible for three-brained beings, irrespective of the form of their exterior coating, to become able, in the presence of all surrounding cosmic factors not depending on them, whether favorable or unfavorable, to ponder on the sense of their own existence, and so to acquire data for the elucidation and reconciliation in themselves of that 'individual collision,' as it is called, which often arises in three-brained beings from the contradiction between the concrete results flowing from the processes of all the cosmic laws and the results presupposed and even definitely expected by their 'sane logic ' And so, correctly evaluating the essential significance of their own presence, they become capable of being aware of the place truly corresponding to them in these common-cosmic actualizations.

"In short, the transubstantiation in themselves of an all-around understanding of the functioning of these two fundamental sacred laws leads to the crystallization in the common presence of three-brained beings of data for engendering that divine property, indispensable to every normal three-brained being, existing under the name of 'semooniranoos.' Your favorites also have an approximate representation of this, and they call it 'impartiality. '

I think that:

[...] to ponder on the sense of their own existence, and so to acquire data for the elucidation and reconciliation in themselves of that 'individual collision,'

corresponds to I think, the conflict between the many I's.

which often arises in three-brained beings from the contradiction between the concrete results flowing from the processes of all the cosmic laws and the results presupposed and even definitely expected by their 'sane logic ' And so, correctly evaluating the essential significance of their own presence, they become capable of being aware of the place truly corresponding to them in these common-cosmic actualizations

So once we learn how these laws 'work' on us and once we observe these laws, we might expect their effects on us next time and perhaps this awareness could make us act in a different way than we would before. In a way that we Choose to act and not in a way that is chosen for us (automatically?), (influenced) by these laws.

If we look at this part from ISOTM, at how the Law of Three 'works' on us:

"But by studying himself, the manifestations of his thought, consciousness, activity—his habits, his desires, and so on—man may learn to observe and to see in himself the action of the three forces. Let us suppose, for instance, that a man wants to work on himself in order to change certain of his characteristics, to attain a higher level of being. His desire, his initiative, is the active force. The inertia of all his habitual psychological life which shows opposition to his initiative will be the passive or the negative force. The two forces will either counterbalance one another, or one will completely conquer the other, but, at the same time, it will become too weak for any further action. Thus the two forces will, as it were, revolve one around the other, one absorbing the other and producing no result whatever. This may continue for a lifetime. A man may feel desire and initiative. But all this initiative may be absorbed in overcoming the habitual inertia of life, leaving nothing for the purpose towards which the initiative ought to be directed. And so it may go on until the third force makes its appearance, in the form, for instance, of new knowledge, showing at once the advantage or the necessity of work on oneself and, in this way, supporting and strengthening the initiative. Then the initiative, with the support of this third force, may conquer inertia and the man becomes active in the desired direction.

I wonder... if a person becomes master of him/herself. Or being very close to Become master of him/herself... do the three forces still have such an effect on such a person? Let's say if someone who is master of himself Chooses (not 'chooses') to become Christian in the full sense of the word. And he Does this. Because he is not a slave anymore. Is there still the action of the negative force then? Or positive? or balancing? Perhaps not in the way described above? Perhaps in a different way.

--

Or hmm:

individual collision which often arises in three-brained beings from the contradiction between the concrete results flowing from the processes of all the cosmic laws - and these laws are presupposed and expected by their 'sane logic'

Quite hard to understand this! But perhaps further reading could help us?

"And so, my dear boy, when in the beginning our Common Father Creator Almighty changed the functioning of both these primordial sacred laws, He directed the action of their forces from within the Most Most Holy Sun Absolute into the space of the Universe, whereupon there came into being the 'Emanation of the Sun Absolute,' which is now called 'Theomertmalogos' or 'Word-God.'

"For the sake of clarity in certain of my further explanations it must be remarked here that, in the process of creation of the now existing world, the 'Force of the Divine Will' of our Endlessness participated only at the very beginning.

"The subsequent creation went on automatically, of its own accord, entirely without the participation of the 'Force of His Own Divine Will,' thanks only to these two changed fundamental cosmic laws.

"And the process of creation then took place in the following sequence:

"Thanks to the new property of the fifth stopinder of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh, the emanations issuing from the Sun Absolute began to act at certain definite points of the space of the Universe upon the prime-source cosmic substance 'ethernokrilno,' and thus, by means of the totality of the old and new properties of the sacred primordial laws, certain definite concentrations began to take form.

"Further, thanks to those factors these definite concentrations acquired their own laws of Heptaparaparshinokh and Triamazikamno, which began to exert their action upon each other, and there were gradually crystallized in these concentrations everything necessary for the appearance of those large concentrations which still exist and are now called 'second-order suns.'

"When these newly arisen suns had been completely actualized and both fundamental laws with their own functioning had been finally established in them, then, in the same way as in the Most Most Holy Sun Absolute, their own results began to be transformed and radiated, and these, uniting with the emanations of the Most Most Holy Sun Absolute in the space of the Universe, became factors for the actualization of the common-cosmic fundamental process of the sacred law of Triamazikamno.

"That is to say:

"The Most Most Holy Theomertmalogos began to manifest itself in the quality of the third holy force of the sacred Triamazikamno, the results of the action of any one of the newly arisen 'second-order suns' began to serve as the first holy force And the results of all the newly arisen 'second-order suns' as a whole, acting upon the given newly arisen 'second-order sun,' began to serve as the second holy force of this sacred law.

••summary•

The Most Most Holy Theomertmalogos (/Word-God/Emanation of the Sun Absolute) began to manifest itself in the quality of the third holy force of the sacred Triamazikamno (the Neutralizing), the results of the action of any one of the newly arisen 'second-order suns' began to serve as the first holy force(Plus) And the results of all the newly arisen 'second-order suns' as a whole, acting upon the given newly arisen 'second-order sun,' began to serve as the second holy force of this sacred law(Minus)

So

Emanation of the Sun Absolute - Neutralizing force
ANY ONE of the the newly arisen 'second-order suns' - force Plus
ALL the newly arisen 'second-order suns' as a WHOLE [acting upon the given newly arisen 'second-order sun,'] - force Minus
••

And this reminds me of:

""The automatic creation of the suns proceeded further in the following way: the emanations of the newly-created suns became to each other as positive and negative, and the emanations of the Sun-Absolute itself became neutralising for these emanations of the newly created suns."

"As soon as the process of the common-cosmic sacred Triamazikamno was thus established in the space of the Universe, crystallizations of different 'densities' were gradually formed out of that same prime-source ethernokrilno, and began to group themselves around each of the second-order suns, giving rise to new concentrations—and in this way more new suns appeared, but this time 'third-order suns.'

"These third-order cosmic concentrations are those which at the present time are called 'planets. '

 

[Nienna]

FWIW - in case you haven't found anything else on Cherubim and Seraphim, they are classes (a hierarchy) of angels, or spiritual beings, whichever definition you are looking at at the time. Cherubim are lower on the hierarchical ladder than Seraphim.

Hope that helps. :)

 

[SeekinTruth]

Oxajil, I’ve been following this thread with great interest. I think you’ve done some really good work. I’ve only read "Beelzebub’s Tales" through once so far and have been meaning to make the time to read it a second time in its entirety, so I’m not one with much understanding at all. But you’ve helped me to ponder many things.

Again, I made a sketch of this. However I think it's wrong, because as you can see, the fifth stopinder didn't 'change' here, but the 1st and the 4th did (Also the text said: resulting from its 'asymmetry' in relation to the whole process of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh and mine doesn't look that asymmetric I think...) Perhaps some kind of formula could make this correct, one that could 'make sure' that the 5th stopinder changes due to the other two changes. Or I haven't sketched this right at all.

What I noticed is that yes, you are right, the fifth stopinder didn’t "change;" however the symmetry of the entire sketch changed. And your sketch can be looked at as if "the asymmetry is 'centered' at the fifth stopinder," considering that "its disharmony came about by itself, simply as a result of the change of the other two stopinders," and "This disharmony of its subjective functioning, result[ed] from its 'asymmetry' in relation to the whole process of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh..." In other words, what I’m getting at is that it can be looked at as the angles at the fifth stopinder are asymmetrical -- the angles of fourth and sixth stopinders to the fifth (compared to the angles of the first and third to the second right across from it).

Perhaps you should look at it not as the 1st and the 4th stopinders "changing" as you’ve written, but as the 3rd and the 7th as is said in the book. It may be that the 1st should not be regarded as "changing" per se but as the beginning of a new octave / cycle (after the two changes were made and the third came about by itself).

Of course, I may be totally confused and way off the mark, but this is what I thought of so far with my very limited understanding.

 

[John G]

Very nice topic here. Here's some more law of 3 (Enneagram 3-6-9) and law of 7 (Enneagram 1-4-2-8-5-7) stuff:

The law of 3 and law of 7 above build up to a pattern of 24. The law of 7 here has its 1,2,4,8,7=1+6=16,5=3+2=32 powers of 2 pattern. It has 2 hexagons of 1-2-4-8-7-5, one hexagon of 3-9-6-6-9-3, and the 1-8-1-8-1-8 hexagon. For even bigger patterns there is this:

http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhspfskq_353tqfg5

The Enneagram is kind of a 3x3=9 representation of what is really a 4x4x4x4=256 thing. The idea of the Enneagram having 9 points, a 3x3 triad grid, 2 quaternities, a law of 3 and a law of 7 all hint at the bigger structure.

It can also be interesting to look at making the Enneagram smaller. For example when Gurdjieff goes down to the octave's 7 points, the 3 and 6 are the ones left out and if you take it down to a pentagon

Guess who else gets left out?... it's the 1 and 8 perhaps related to the 1-8-1-8-1-8 hexagon in the first image and to the 3 and 8 in the assertive triad and the 1 and 6 in the compliant triad. One more hint that the 1-8-1-8-1-8 hexagon may be another way of expressing two law of 3s numerologically is that the two 6s in the Process D3 (the D3 for the actual Enneagram) are SF and TJ which average to SJ (the One) and the two 3s are NT and FP which average to NP (the Eight). I'm using a Hurley-Donson-like scheme here with two law of threes. The Enneagram's 4-5 gap shows up in the above Pentagon.

Below are a couple "spiritual" images (Shambhala and Rennes-deChateau) showing an octavish gap and an Enneagramish Pentagon gap:

 

[RflctnOfU]

Here are just a few examples of 3 being intimately linked with 7.

The first example is of 3 non-parallel, non-tangent (is this the correct term??), without a common intersection - in a singular plane, divides said plane into 7 sections

The second is in a volume. XYZ axis - assuming the lines are instead line segments, yeilds 7 points.

The third is a triadic prism yeilding the 7 colors of the rainbow

 

[Oxajil]

Oxajil, I’ve been following this thread with great interest. I think you’ve done some really good work. I’ve only read "Beelzebub’s Tales" through once so far and have been meaning to make the time to read it a second time in its entirety, so I’m not one with much understanding at all. But you’ve helped me to ponder many things.

I'm glad I could help in some way:)

Again, I made a sketch of this. However I think it's wrong, because as you can see, the fifth stopinder didn't 'change' here, but the 1st and the 4th did (Also the text said: resulting from its 'asymmetry' in relation to the whole process of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh and mine doesn't look that asymmetric I think...) Perhaps some kind of formula could make this correct, one that could 'make sure' that the 5th stopinder changes due to the other two changes. Or I haven't sketched this right at all.

What I noticed is that yes, you are right, the fifth stopinder didn’t "change;" however the symmetry of the entire sketch changed. And your sketch can be looked at as if "the asymmetry is 'centered' at the fifth stopinder," considering that "its disharmony came about by itself, simply as a result of the change of the other two stopinders," and "This disharmony of its subjective functioning, result[ed] from its 'asymmetry' in relation to the whole process of the sacred Heptaparaparshinokh..." In other words, what I’m getting at is that it can be looked at as the angles at the fifth stopinder are asymmetrical -- the angles of fourth and sixth stopinders to the fifth (compared to the angles of the first and third to the second right across from it).

Perhaps you should look at it not as the 1st and the 4th stopinders "changing" as you’ve written, but as the 3rd and the 7th as is said in the book. It may be that the 1st should not be regarded as "changing" per se but as the beginning of a new octave / cycle (after the two changes were made and the third came about by itself).

Of course, I may be totally confused and way off the mark, but this is what I thought of so far with my very limited understanding.

Hmm very interesting! I've actually never looked at it that way. I've pondered a lot about this sketch and something was just bugging me. Now that I look at it again, it indeed also could be seen 'as if "the asymmetry is 'centered' at the fifth stopinder," ! It's interesting to notice how many things can be interpreted in different ways. I guess that's why a network like this could be quite helpful. Of course it might not mean that we are close to the absolute truth, but perhaps to a better understanding. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.

Very nice topic here. Here's some more law of 3 (Enneagram 3-6-9) and law of 7 (Enneagram 1-4-2-8-5-7) stuff:

The law of 3 and law of 7 above build up to a pattern of 24. The law of 7 here has its 1,2,4,8,7=1+6=16,5=3+2=32 powers of 2 pattern. It has 2 hexagons of 1-2-4-8-7-5, one hexagon of 3-9-6-6-9-3, and the 1-8-1-8-1-8 hexagon. For even bigger patterns there is this:

http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhspfskq_353tqfg5

The Enneagram is kind of a 3x3=9 representation of what is really a 4x4x4x4=256 thing. The idea of the Enneagram having 9 points, a 3x3 triad grid, 2 quaternities, a law of 3 and a law of 7 all hint at the bigger structure.

It can also be interesting to look at making the Enneagram smaller. For example when Gurdjieff goes down to the octave's 7 points, the 3 and 6 are the ones left out and if you take it down to a pentagon

Guess who else gets left out?... it's the 1 and 8 perhaps related to the 1-8-1-8-1-8 hexagon in the first image and to the 3 and 8 in the assertive triad and the 1 and 6 in the compliant triad. One more hint that the 1-8-1-8-1-8 hexagon may be another way of expressing two law of 3s numerologically is that the two 6s in the Process D3 (the D3 for the actual Enneagram) are SF and TJ which average to SJ (the One) and the two 3s are NT and FP which average to NP (the Eight). I'm using a Hurley-Donson-like scheme here with two law of threes. The Enneagram's 4-5 gap shows up in the above Pentagon.

Below are a couple "spiritual" images (Shambhala and Rennes-deChateau) showing an octavish gap and an Enneagramish Pentagon gap:

It's always a good thing to put all kinds of related information together. It does sound a bit complex to me! I guess I need to do more research on this matter to have a better understanding. Thanks for sharing!

Here are just a few examples of 3 being intimately linked with 7.

The first example is of 3 non-parallel, non-tangent (is this the correct term??), without a common intersection - in a singular plane, divides said plane into 7 sections

The second is in a volume. XYZ axis - assuming the lines are instead line segments, yeilds 7 points.

The third is a triadic prism yeilding the 7 colors of the rainbow

You know, I've always wondered how we could 'put' these two interlocking laws 'together'. I've had my sketches about that as well, but I guess they were totally off, since my understanding was based on very little knowledge of these laws or even mathematics. So thank you for sharing these.