PepperFritz is no longer here and so cannot partake of more discussion. However, I still think it'd be worthwhile to finally make a reply.
This is the third attempt. The first - a number of days after all those responses - was lost after I had come quite far in writing one. It was however in hindsight worse as my perspective had not yet grown as much as it would. As noted in that lost writeup, when I made my previous post in this thread I was bubbling under the surface with feelings of impending doom regarding my forum membership, fearing that the conversation between me and PF was on its way to escalating into an irrecoverable situation with me being ultimately banned as some sort of baked noodle or some such. It was a bit of a challenge - and as such the situation in hindsight a useful opportunity - to keep writing. I was surprised the next day upon seeing that a meaningful and involved discussion had erupted.
anart said:
I think I understand what you're getting at Csayeursost - the point is that want/desire is STS, which you are directly linking to pleasure for the self, which is STS - and we, as human beings existing on 3D planet earth in 2009 are STS. Perhaps the distinction you are missing is that Pepperfritz is discussing appreciation as opposed to desire? (If that is what she intends - if she intends the pursuit of pleasure just to feel good or better, then that idea might fall flat.)
I also think it's important to remember that imposing a lack of desire/want upon oneself is counterproductive - it should be a natural byproduct of development - not something imposed because you think it might quicken development. I think that deep appreciation of beauty, wherever one finds it, is more akin to Love than pleasure seeking or desire - it is more of an acknowledgment of the Creative face of the Universe - and being able to perceive that face, and appreciate it, is part of awakening and balance - but that's just my take on it.
When PF wrote of seeking out and enjoying pleasurable activities I associated it with pleasure-seeking, and then thought much like go2 with the idea that "seeking pleasure" is based on desire (and ultimately STS) while "experiencing pleasure" can be free from desire (and so free from STS, provided no such reactions occur).
I was missing (which I came to recognize re-reading your post some time after "breathing out" the remnants of the formerly buried fearful old emotions that had surfaced) what you were later to write above about genuine appreciation of beauty - and how it fit in the context, suggesting that something different might have been meant.
When I wrote that previous post, I was looking - with tunnel vision - for something to demonstrate my reasoning, trying and abandoning several trails of thought - including beginning to write something about the connection of Work to the elimination of "wants" and "desires" (how it follows from Work and so is ideally accomplished as a result), though failing to explain myself. What I finally settled on does not really correspond to my wider understanding, then or now, when taken plainly - giving the idea of deliberately "reducing" want in itself
somehow taken apart from all else. What I generally have in mind (I did not give a single thought to the
how when I wrote, it falling outside the scope of my tunnel vision) for reducing want is disillusionment (which causes it to successively fade, in my experience thus far), proceeding from contemplation and Thinking with a Hammer.
Taking some want connected to pleasant dreams and showing myself what it
really means - nasty STS business in its raw, coarse details - so building a deeper perspective in establishing these mental links - has several times gradually rid me of desires and allowed me to snap out of a specific bubble of wishful thinking.
Finally, as things have and continue to go, my practice is not in the first place immediately connected to my theory. "In the moment", I nearly always do things by feel. As such, hardly any long-term considerations enter into moment-to-moment Work (except for when I lose focus and dissociate), the theory being sort-of held and processed separately from the practice, though influencing its general direction (sort-of like a map).
PepperFritz said:
I think this is the most common misconception we see with those relatively new to the Laura's work and the Cassiopaea material: The idea that we can "become STO" by doing (or not doing!) this, that, and the other. When in fact, all we can do is consistently attend to our 3rd-density lessons and strive for objectivity through the Work, without expectation of the outcome -- not with the motivation of "becoming STO" or graduating to 4th density, but by simply doing what we need to do in order to grow and develop and expand. Becoming an "STO candidate" is something that will happen naturally in tandem with with that growth and development. Whether it happens "in time" (i.e .to coincide with the Wave and the transition to 4th-density), or in one of our next 3rd-density incarnations, is beyond our control, because we can only do what is in us to do -- no matter how much we may WANT and DESIRE otherwise.
Before when I read this, my mental tunnel vision had me focusing specifically on the issue discussed in this thread and concluding that this does not apply to me. But looking a bit more widely, I can see that for me, while practice is OK regarding this - though too narrowly focused on working within at the cost of not making much of my life's wider opportunities, like "coming out of my shell" and interacting more with people and working with the related 3D lessons - my theoretical thinking is in part tainted. It contains some muddy garbage - thinking subjectively of and dreaming about my future and future accomplishments - that I haven't removed.
The above message should at any rate be much clearer than the previous, abandoned effort (attempt 2). Whether that's enough remains to be seen.
