The Money Masters!

[paralleloscope]

yup you have right i'm using tran. maybe you know some better translator ?

No sorry I don't know a good translator, but I think it's worthy of it's own topic, as I know many write and read through them, perhaps others know better ones.
Google translate is OK in some languages- english to danish is good, especially if text is technical because your reading in that way but if it's is more personal it looses alot in translation. for instance Google's translations between spanish-danish is horrible and is not at all understandble on either end, or so I found.

my bad what I wanted to write, that when I change my thinking about money now there are opportunities to transfer creative energy with my action

I figured that you had applied some new ideas in your money/job relations, it's just what exactly that got lost in translation.

Personally I've been lost in poverty and squandering programs all my life, with finding this powerful and in itself opulent text I'm seeing the programming much clearer. The predator is guarding my every move to prosper. The other night I was so locked down with this entropic thinking that I resigned to the sauna and breathed my way out of it's ruling pestilence and saw it for the illusion it was, many I's are fed up with these small shoes.

 

[ana]

Well maybe the first thing to consider is the current difference that exists between the high standarts of balanced, collinear and knowledgeable beings, who give without expecting immediate reward, but knowing that they will receive for sure in any other way because that's how this side of the universe works in a reality where STS and STO are balanced, and our current situation in this reality where there is no balance just because it is an STS reality.

Reading it now, I see there was in me a forced and devoid of understanding concept coupled with narcissism.
I'm not sure I'm fully understanding it by now, just think that it has nothing to do with "high standarts" but with natural functions of the STO orientation, as knowledge is acquired, and the specific inner orientation conciously manifests.

 

[Buddy]

wants to share with you something I came across recently;)
a week ago I read this thread .. I printed myself what laura wrote and read to understand a couple of times, I've added to ee meditation money is energy and I started to look differently at work ENERGIE hm is that we create and we choose our work is not putting energy focusing on the money.
I made a website for a friend for free because I wanted to help her sister the same for ... turned out to instruct me and other people came up to me a project where I earned twice as much as I earn in a job within a month.

At work I started to look at the money not only on what I'm doing to do it best - it gives me satisfaction like it before I did, but sometimes subconsciously in your mind and told myself that I pay enough now not thinking about the money I make, I'm just wonder what happens:)

Thinking in terms of energy is right because 'energy' represents your capacity to do work and the only thing worth focusing on, OSIT. For anyone who will "do", that person can be self-sufficient at anytime - even while the economists who focus only on money and prices will never understand the concept of "physical constraints", thermodynamics or entropy and will continue to misjudge everything until their clients are bankrupt. :)

 

[BuAnn]

A great and curious topic.

It's wonderful to read of money being spoken of as energy.

One scripture from the bible that comes to mind is

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again (Luke 6:38)

Laura, you stated in your post much of the corrupted programmed self-talk about money I've been struggling with for a few years now.

There is one saying that runs through my mind often and it's "all money ain't good money" I heard the phrase said in the context of someone explaining why they didn't receive money from certain people. Or in the context of explaining why they wouldn't venture into a certain job/career/money making opportunity. I've also seen people in my life reject money because they said they didn't like the energy of the person who was giving the money. I acknowledge the self-importance interlaced through what you just read.

But what I'm wondering is if this idea is just more programming or is there any truth to the notion that money can sometimes carry a negative energy coming from someone wishing/desiring ill intent for the receiver of that money? Or can money carry the negative energy of someone? I guess what I am really asking is can money (not just tangible cash, but any form of currency) be imprinted with energy or is it like liquid water in that it takes the shape of it's container, so to speak?

 

[SolarMother]

Ana

Reading it now, I see there was in me a forced and devoid of understanding concept coupled with narcissism.
I'm not sure I'm fully understanding it by now, just think that it has nothing to do with "high standarts" but with natural functions of the STO orientation, as knowledge is acquired, and the specific inner orientation conciously manifests.

That is helpful, Ana.

Parallel

Personally I've been lost in poverty and squandering programs all my life, with finding this powerful and in itself opulent text I'm seeing the programming much clearer. The predator is guarding my every move to prosper.

Our off the grid experiment was a poverty program. I can see that more clearly--the programming behind that venture.
Can you elaborate on the predator guarding your every move to prosper?
FWIW, I am noticing that when my energy is up, I give more, and receive more in my work (more commissions/sales=energy/money. My energy was up yesterday, btw.

 

[go2]

What is money? Money exists in the collective mind of mankind. It is the collective memory of the relative value of things. It is not precisely energy, but serves to govern and distribute energy or value. If the mind’s of men were objective we could speak of money as units of energy; but since the minds of men are subjective, I prefer to speak of value rather than energy. What is the value of a unit of energy? It is subjective, isn't it?

Money is a unit of account of value, a unit of transaction of value, and a unit of storage of value through time. So, money is man’s collective memory of the relative value of things. Relative value is dynamic, changing with time and circumstance. In a society of intimates, trust can serve as money to regulate reciprocity, gift, or obligation in judging relative value. I heard as a child, “The laborer is worthy of his hire.” We have a store of knowledge and potential energy to manifest things which others value. Money mediates the exchange of things between people who do not have a basis for trust. Trust depends on personal relationship. Well, the world is bigger than our family or tribe. We need a medium of money to govern and distribute value among strangers who have no intimate basis for trust.

What is the medium of exchange of value between strangers? It is a dollar, a Yuan, a rupee, a ruble, a gram of gold, etc. Who determines the medium of exchange which represents the collective knowledge of the relative value of things? Well, this question is the crux of the matter. He, who produces the medium of exchange, can steal from those forced to use a particular medium of exchange by the coercion of legal tender laws backed by the state’s monopoly of violence. Who do you trust with money?

Let me back up to the list of money’s. You may notice that I included gold in the list. It is a special case, which has always been a problem for the sovereign as he sought a means of diverting the energy of people to his favorite or favorite’s use. So, these self appointed masters of money do not wish to earn money the honest way, where a laborer is worthy of his hire. They conceive a means to steal. It is a reason to study pathology and its manifestations. One manifestation is violence and the other is money as legal tender. Legal tender is simply what the sovereign accepts for payment of taxes.

Now, most people feel a social obligation to support the fiction of the state which claims a social contract with its citizens. I will disregard the fact that I did not voluntary sign a contract with any entity. The state and its minions are not content to honestly tax their citizens. They connive a way to steal the savings, which you recall is the excess energy generated by a man’s knowledge and labor. Citizens are forced to save in promises to pay the medium of exchange called money by the state and the banking monopoly. Those who create the medium of money surreptitiously create more of the legal tender money, than has been generated honestly, by the accumulation of man’s labor and knowledge. This method dilutes the unit of account function, thereby stealing man’s energy while he sleeps.

Some big players are tired of this stealing from their accounts and seek to separate the unit of account from control by thieves. Perhaps, gold can serve this function of money as a gram of gold is a gram of gold everywhere and always. This requires that gold be free of designation as legal tender or fixed in price by edit. The mind of man can determine the relative value of things, if they have a trusted unit of account and method of saving their surplus energy which does not require trusting thieves. We trust God who gave us gold to use as a measure of value and a store of value. The thieves can retain their monopoly on money of legal tender, but their ability to steal will be severely limited by a money system where the unit of account and the unit of store are separated from the unit of transaction.

I know this is a somewhat technical post on money, but until we know what we are talking about, we are lambs among the wolves. I do not like my labor being stolen. The first step to understanding money is to know it functions, especially the function of stealing on behalf of the psychopaths who control the money of man’s collective mind by legal tender laws.

 

[eternusphoenix]

The money programs that Laura outlined in her post are the exact type of thinking that first got me into (years ago) the ideas of Anarcho-Communism & Capitalism=Death.

I've never had the idea of money explained like this. I'm grateful for this explanation.

At the same time I feel like...
Maybe I'm missing something here or maybe I just can't see the whole picture. How can a person caught in a war zone (Palestine, Iraq, Afganistan, or the ghettos all over the world) possibly apply these principles and have any degree of success? It seems to me that these principles are most easily applied in affluent nations.

"Nature is infinitely and endlessly prolific. It is the involuntary and effortless nature of Nature to constantly and abundantly create and give of itself to ALL."

Isn't nature simply a mechanical organism that via it's own genetic code continues to reproduce for it's own survival? All living things have within their genetic code the impulse to reproduce but I don't see that as giving, I see that as survival of the machine.

I got the above idea in part from a really excellent documentary by Adam Curtis who also did Century Of Self.
All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C17zbTTYVME

I'm confused because I thought after having read ISOTM that EVERYTHING is simply mechanical (until mechanical man struggles for a very long time to BE something else and to be able to DO). Laura's above quote emotionally feels good but how is it true?

To someone who reads this (who is NOT involved in any esoteric work) and attempts to apply this, wouldn't the results amount to repeating mantras and dreaming of this possible reality?

(A close friend of mine posted Laura's post on $ on fb and these were the questions that I had. He suggested that I seemed to be confusing some different concepts and that it would be good for me to discuss my questions on the forum here.) I thank you in advance for any answers that you may provide.

 

[Oxajil]

Maybe I'm missing something here or maybe I just can't see the whole picture. How can a person caught in a war zone (Palestine, Iraq, Afganistan, or the ghettos all over the world) possibly apply these principles and have any degree of success? It seems to me that these principles are most easily applied in affluent nations.

Hmm, I don't think so. We all have our lives according to the lessons we chose to learn and the environment we chose to be in, on a certain level. And in every life, I think, opportunities will open up for people to learn how to Give and how to Receive in a natural and external considerate way. Poor people in the countries you mentioned can always be creative in their own way, small or big. They can help themselves and their families with gaining money (maybe even get creative and selling artworks or poems), they can help with cooking, they can help children cope with the reality they're in, and some might even start organizations or simply start a newspaper to spread their current knowledge of what is going on in their country. Success doesn't always mean, having lots of money.
Nobody is a nobody, and everyone can do something to make their lives richer, in whatever aspect that is suitable for them at the time of being and the place and circumstances they're in.

Isn't nature simply a mechanical organism that via it's own genetic code continues to reproduce for it's own survival? All living things have within their genetic code the impulse to reproduce but I don't see that as giving, I see that as survival of the machine.

I think there are many levels to it. Think about the Universe as infinite, think about the idea that souls live through all Creation in an infinite way, from start to end, from end to start, like an endless cycle, where death is merely a part of Nature, too. If there is such infinity, the main idea to do things solely to reproduce sounds limiting. Surely reproducing is part of Nature as well, and the same goes for survival, it's biology. But I don't think that's all there is. What about the ''drive'' to grow spiritually, to reconnect with Nature, or to simply learn the lessons we are here to learn?

I'm confused because I thought after having read ISOTM that EVERYTHING is simply mechanical (until mechanical man struggles for a very long time to BE something else and to be able to DO). Laura's above quote emotionally feels good but how is it true?

Think about the people who don't know about Gurdjieff. Many people go into therapy, and learn a lot about themselves, whether little or great things, some other people learn other things, maybe they learn to be independent, maybe they learn that being very selfish in certain aspects in their life isn't fruitful for others and themselves, so something is happening. We all learn, with the knowlegde we have, with the choices we make, in our own way and at our own pace. Just because everything and everyone is mechanical, doesn't necessarily mean that there is absolutely no opportunity for progress (or success/richness). So on one level, everything merely happens and everything and everyone is mechanical, but on another level there might be struggle and learning going on, too. And for those who actively work on themselves in a network like this, with the knowledge we have, some people might learn certain things faster than people who don't have such things. But yea, it depends.

To someone who reads this (who is NOT involved in any esoteric work) and attempts to apply this, wouldn't the results amount to repeating mantras and dreaming of this possible reality?

Maybe and maybe not. It would depend on the person, I think. Maybe someone who is not involved in esoteric work could realize from reading this that asking money for one's efforts doesn't have to be a bad thing. Or maybe someone will go about dreaming, as you say, and totally misunderstand and not achieve anything. There are many possibilities I think.
For what it's worth.

Interesting questions, by the way, eternusphoenix!

 

[ana]

"Nature is infinitely and endlessly prolific. It is the involuntary and effortless nature of Nature to constantly and abundantly create and give of itself to ALL."

Isn't nature simply a mechanical organism that via it's own genetic code continues to reproduce for it's own survival? All living things have within their genetic code the impulse to reproduce but I don't see that as giving, I see that as survival of the machine.

Do minerals, plants, animals, and humans learn?
If so, through which medium is it done?

I'm confused because I thought after having read ISOTM that EVERYTHING is simply mechanical (until mechanical man struggles for a very long time to BE something else and to be able to DO). Laura's above quote emotionally feels good but how is it true?

As the C's say we are in a school, in a school there are several levels, maybe Gurdjieff used mechanicity as a metaphor to differenciate between levels of awareness, and emphasize the differences in knowledge and being, and therefore freedom.
This does not exclude the fact that each being on their level is learning.

A teaching serves a specific purpose, mechanicity is a practical and usefull word to describe this differences.

And so, maybe organic life is just another natural manifestation of consciousness in its development.

 

[eternusphoenix]

Oxajil & Ana,

I thank you both for your perspectives. Putting Laura's note in the context of this reality being one big school with many many lessons to learn helps a lot.

Do minerals, plants, animals, and humans learn?
If so, through which medium is it done?

I never really gave much thought to minerals or plants learning. I'm not sure if they do indeed learn. I suppose they must as we all start out there and then slowly work our way up the densities. The school called life is the medium and since all of creation is its students, all are learning.

Money has always been a challenging subject for me. I'm appreciative for the data here. I'm starting to see money in a different light now. Thanks to all of you!

 

[Johnno]

So where does money come from? How is it created? At one time, thousands of years ago, there was none and now there seems to be a lot of it (mainly owed) around the place.

 

[stellar]

So where does money come from? How is it created? At one time, thousands of years ago, there was none and now there seems to be a lot of it (mainly owed) around the place.

I guess the old barter system was ponerised to give worthless 'currency' for something real/physical. At one time I remember that the US dollar was redeemable in its value for gold. I think something to that effect was printed on the actual notes. Now I think it is wothless.

 

[Hildegarda]

I guess the old barter system was ponerised to give worthless 'currency' for something real/physical.

I haven't read it yet, but some online friends highly recommended the book "Debt" by David Graeber,

_http://www.amazon.com/Debt-First-5-000-Years/dp/1933633867/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316619790&sr=8-1

Amazon intro:

Every economics textbook says the same thing: Money was invented to replace onerous and complicated barter systems—to relieve ancient people from having to haul their goods to market. The problem with this version of history? There’s not a shred of evidence to support it.

Here anthropologist David Graeber presents a stunning reversal of conventional wisdom. He shows that for more than 5,000 years, since the beginnings of the first agrarian empires, humans have used elaborate credit systems to buy and sell goods—that is, long before the invention of coins or cash. It is in this era, Graeber argues, that we also first encounter a society divided into debtors and creditors.

Graeber shows that arguments about debt and debt forgiveness have been at the center of political debates from Italy to China, as well as sparking innumerable insurrections. He also brilliantly demonstrates that the language of the ancient works of law and religion (words like “guilt,” “sin,” and “redemption”) derive in large part from ancient debates about debt, and shape even our most basic ideas of right and wrong. We are still fighting these battles today without knowing it.

He says, among other things, that coins were invented to easily pay mercenary armies.

 

[go2]

So where does money come from? How is it created? At one time, thousands of years ago, there was none and now there seems to be a lot of it (mainly owed) around the place.

Money is created and exists in the mind of man. It is the collective memory of the relative value of things.

So, money has existed as long as man has had the neural capacity to subjectivity judge the relative value of things.

Money's function is to facilitate the distribution of energy and time. It is the unit of account. It is the unit of transaction.
It is the unit of temporary storage of value.

 

[stellar]

So where does money come from? How is it created? At one time, thousands of years ago, there was none and now there seems to be a lot of it (mainly owed) around the place.

Money is created and exists in the mind of man. It is the collective memory of the relative value of things.

So, money has existed as long as man has had the neural capacity to subjectivity judge the relative value of things.

Money's function is to facilitate the distribution of energy and time. It is the unit of account. It is the unit of transaction.
It is the unit of temporary storage of value.

...and it' value is determined by those who created it to keep themselves in control?