The power of the word "Be"

[luc]

I was just reading Rätselhaftes Tibet (In Secret Tibet) by T. Illion the other day (for a discussion of Darkness over Tibet by the same author see this thread) and there was one concept there that I haven't read about before (or I forgot) and that strongly resonated with me: The distinction between "to be" and "to have" with regard to one's general attitude to life - "to have" pointing to the material world, to possession, ego and entropy, and "to be" pointing to a selfless life, a humble "just be", "radiating" attitude to life (my interpretation).

It says (translation mine):

The less selfish you are and the less you fragment everything in life into the "I" and the "Not-I", the more you relax mentally, and this mental/spiritual state of relaxation inevitably brings about a physical state of relaxation. The more we interprete life in the sense of the word "have" rather than the word "be", the more the desire-to-want-something-for-self leads to mental (spiritual) and physical tension.

The true Tibetan saints don't want to have anything for themselves. Their approach to life is all about the word "be".

If you look at a beautiful sunset or listen to wonderful music while completely forgetting that you are Mr. or Mrs. So-and-so, you feel at this moment the breath of the divine in yourself. You do not want to possess this sunshine, you do not want to have this beautiful music. And yet you are happy and feel the bliss of perfect selflessness that expects no reward for their selflessness. This is true spirituality.

And if you keep this view of life not only in beautiful and light moments of life, but also in moments of trouble and difficulty, then you live like the true saints, these simple and true human beings, for religion is a living thing and not just reciting prayers and brief moments of forced goodness.

Now later after reading this, when my usual worries about daily life, job etc. started kicking in again, I pronounced the word "Be" (as in "just be!") in my head and it gave me a rather deep feeling of tranquility, "extended presence" and connectedness, for lack of better words. It was a similar feeling I had sometimes during the POTS meditation when breathing out. It felt like I could truly feel the meaning of the concept "to be" vs. "to have". I realize that this feeling could have other origins, maybe I was just more aware than usual or whatever. However, I found that interesting and it seems to still work! So fwiw.

Has anyone noticed something similar? Or is there maybe a thread about something related to this? (I did a search but it's rather difficult to search for something so general.)

 

[pstott]

It seems that it is not easy to just "be". Part of the method to achieve just "be"-ing is the stoppage of chatter in the monkey mind.

As you probably know the mind continually produces thoughts, random associations, imaginings, worries, fantasies etc. mostly without control from any central "I". Be - ing while all of this is going on as a major distraction is nigh impossible.

In order to reach a state of "Be" - ing it is first necessary to turn all of that chatter off. This is not achieved by force of will, because if we try to actively "stop" thinking it generates more thought and becomes a vicious circle.

Rather it is a "letting go" that is necessary to achieve this. Meditation can be a help in this - focusing on a colour, or sensing a body part for example, in order to remove energy from the monkey mind.

In all my years I have rerely been able to achieve a momentary state of just Be-ing as thoughts immedietely try to start up - "hey I did it!" and the state is lost again. However it is worth all of the effort.

 

[luc]

It seems that it is not easy to just "be". Part of the method to achieve just "be"-ing is the stoppage of chatter in the monkey mind.

As you probably know the mind continually produces thoughts, random associations, imaginings, worries, fantasies etc. mostly without control from any central "I". Be - ing while all of this is going on as a major distraction is nigh impossible.

Thanks for the reminder, maybe I was a bit too enthousiastic. Indeed, who am I to think I can reach a state of true be-ing even temporarily?

Rather it is a "letting go" that is necessary to achieve this. Meditation can be a help in this - focusing on a colour, or sensing a body part for example, in order to remove energy from the monkey mind.

Well, my experience was such that I felt that by "meditating" (I was actually on the go, so this was not meditating alone in a quiet place) on the word "be", I could let go of draining thoughts and experience a more quiet and relaxed state of mind. It was like the thoughts were still there, but they seemed distant, not threatening. I think this is what is meant by "letting go"?

By the way, the Praying-thread conveniently popped up again today and I had the chance to read some of it - very helpful, since it touches these questions in some detail. Very interesting thoughts in there, thank you!

(I noticed that oftentimes, I "randomly" stumble upon the information I need most at the moment without being even aware of it, especially in the forum where old threads can be revived etc.)

 

[pstott]

Letting go - it's hard to describe.

The mind is difficult to control. Did you ever hear "Don't think of a white elephant"? It seems immediately that a white elephant pops into mind and the more you try to "not" think about it, the more thoughts are generated.

Letting go is just stopping all thinking - not by suppressing thought but by relaxing the mind. If a thought starts to form, try not to focus on it but let it drift away. Sometimes focusing on sensing a part of the body, without thinking about it, helps.

This is the best approximation I have for a description of the process.

 

[anart]

Letting go is just stopping all thinking

Why would anyone want to stop all thinking? Shouldn't the goal be to learn how to think, considering that most people never think at all?

 

[Iron]

Letting go - it's hard to describe.

The mind is difficult to control. Did you ever hear "Don't think of a white elephant"? It seems immediately that a white elephant pops into mind and the more you try to "not" think about it, the more thoughts are generated.

Letting go is just stopping all thinking - not by suppressing thought but by relaxing the mind. If a thought starts to form, try not to focus on it but let it drift away. Sometimes focusing on sensing a part of the body, without thinking about it, helps.

This is the best approximation I have for a description of the process.

Not sure if stopping all thinking would help in the quest for higher being. After all, our quest is in part to refine our thought, not to get rid of it. This buddhist eastern practice, surely has its meritis, but maybe only on the fine tuned and cleansed human, to empty the mind in order to tune to a higher "station".
Also, the idea of stopping everything, to have a empty mind, to not think, is kinda STS-ish if you think about it isn't it?

 

[Psalehesost]

It seems that it is not easy to just "be". Part of the method to achieve just "be"-ing is the stoppage of chatter in the monkey mind.

As you probably know the mind continually produces thoughts, random associations, imaginings, worries, fantasies etc. mostly without control from any central "I". Be - ing while all of this is going on as a major distraction is nigh impossible.

In order to reach a state of "Be" - ing it is first necessary to turn all of that chatter off. This is not achieved by force of will, because if we try to actively "stop" thinking it generates more thought and becomes a vicious circle.

Rather it is a "letting go" that is necessary to achieve this. Meditation can be a help in this - focusing on a colour, or sensing a body part for example, in order to remove energy from the monkey mind.

In all my years I have rerely been able to achieve a momentary state of just Be-ing as thoughts immedietely try to start up - "hey I did it!" and the state is lost again. However it is worth all of the effort.

I'm skeptical of your concept of what it means to Be. If one stops all thought and "empties the mind", then unless one has a solid connection to the real/higher self (higher centers), one will still be a machine, only a thoughtless one.

The lower centers will work a bit differently, which will make one experience things differently, but that does not imply being awake nor any increase in Being. Different does not equal higher.

This buddhist eastern practice, surely has its meritis, but maybe only on the fine tuned and cleansed human, to empty the mind in order to tune to a higher "station".
Also, the idea of stopping everything, to have a empty mind, to not think, is kinda STS-ish if you think about it isn't it?

It can have its particular uses: It can strengthen the ability to focus and direct the flow of thoughts. And it can be used to break thought-loops, give mental activity a fresh start.

In other words, while it does not lead to anything higher, it can be a practical tool in specific contexts - if used as such.

 

[ana]

I think being able to stop thought processes is a great step that meditators can achieve and I agree that in those very moments one can (which doesn't mean it's always the case) experience what means To Be, but it has its dangers specially if seen as an end, practiced continually and for prolonged periods of time, the mind can get used to a lazy passivity and meditators not "in charge" don't know how to change this state.

Buddhists for example have "antidotes" for these states and they know how to put them into practice but unexperienced meditators who enter very passive states may not have the same control and end with a vague mind, and, a vague mind is not usefull besides the possible dangers associated with possesion for those with low amount of Being.

Then I also think that we easily forget or don't realize that actually learning our lessons and a good amount of conscious suffering, understanding once for all the consecuences of our actions is actually the main Being "caller", and anyone who has ever find themselves in the middle of the chaos and shocks of life and has experience a moment of lucidity despite the torment or suffering has actually found his/her very core being and understands what is To Be, this is what must be practiced to grow in Being, I think.

 

[obyvatel]

When we observe nature, we can perceive state of being. Specially animals living in close proximity to human beings can illustrate what it means to "be". This state of being is not connected to non-action or non-responsiveness or any permanent state of any kind. It is rather a constant flux of change in which the organism participates/responds organically based on its own level of complexity.

Human beings have a level of complexity which is different than other organisms that we encounter in nature. We have the ability to think - yet most of the time we cannot master and use that ability to appropriately participate/respond, instead spending our time lost in illusory thoughts which are not organically connected to the reality that we inhabit. Thoughts are not the problem - our impaired ability to think is what we could strive to change. This would result in "being" which is appropriate to the level of complexity that the universe chose to endow us with - rather than attempting to strive for a "thoughtless" state of existence.

All this ties in with the fact that we are part of a bigger universe (which does not turn around us) with a responsibility corresponding to our level of complexity. The desire to float in bliss in a thoughtless state of being does not seem to be organically connected to the reality we currently inhabit, if we strive towards a STO dynamic -osit.

 

[whitecoast]

Letting go is just stopping all thinking

Is there a chance you could be referring to the formatory apparatus instead, pstott?

[quote author=Cassiopedia]
Thinking, Formatory

The formatory apparatus is Ouspensky's term for the mechanical aspect of the lower intellectual center. The natural function of this center is storage of information and its associative retrieval. The term formatory thinking Is used when this function replaces the less mechanical aspects of thinking. Formatory thinking is characterized by insensitivity to context, black and white statements or strictly agreeing or disagreeing. Repeating by rote and not taking specific circumstance into account are the main characteristics of formatory thinking.

Mouravieff states the the human intellect is blind to the 'third force.' This is specially true of formatory thinking.[/quote]

 

[luc]

Thank you all for the great input.

Then I also think that we easily forget or don't realize that actually learning our lessons and a good amount of conscious suffering, understanding once for all the consecuences of our actions is actually the main Being "caller", and anyone who has ever find themselves in the middle of the chaos and shocks of life and has experience a moment of lucidity despite the torment or suffering has actually found his/her very core being and understands what is To Be, this is what must be practiced to grow in Being, I think.

Ana, would you mind to clarify a bit? Do you mean a moment of lucidity as a consequence of conscious suffering? And what do you mean by "understanding once for all the consequences of our actions" being the main Being "caller"? Sorry that I'm a bit slow here, thank you!

If I think about it, what I described in my initial post may have been a success in reducing my mecahnical suffering, however small and temporarily it might have been. I felt drained by thought-loops about work/daily life, and I somehow managed to "disconnect the draining pipeline", so to speak. But I realize now that there is, as it seems to be the case with so many spiritual matters, a fine line, in this case between beneficial meditation to reduce draining and the wish to shut out from reality just to "feel better".

And this may have something to do with "having vs. being". Maybe a lot of "mechanical suffering" / draining has to do with our desire to "have" - be it job positions, recognition, people, thoughts, blissful states etc., osit. So maybe one way of looking at it is that the desire to "have" or "possess" a blissful state of emptiness is not the right approach, whereas "to be" in a blissful state of lucidity, where one is not drained by thought loops and can look at things more clearly, can be something of value.

Or, as obyvatel said:

[...] All this ties in with the fact that we are part of a bigger universe (which does not turn around us) with a responsibility corresponding to our level of complexity. The desire to float in bliss in a thoughtless state of being does not seem to be organically connected to the reality we currently inhabit, if we strive towards a STO dynamic -osit.

 

[ana]

Ana, would you mind to clarify a bit? Do you mean a moment of lucidity as a consequence of conscious suffering?

Yes, maybe these quotes from ISOTM can help:

The conditions of life in which a man is placed at the beginning of his work, in which, so to speak, the work finds him, are the best possible for him, at any rate at the beginning of the work. These conditions are natural for him. These conditions are the man himself, because a man's life and its conditions correspond to what he is. Any conditions different from those created by life would be artificial for a man and in such artificial conditions the work would not be able to touch every side of his being at once.

"If he carries out all these rules while he observes himself, a man will record a whole series of very important aspects of his being. To begin with he will record with unmistakable clearness the fact that his actions, thoughts, feelings, and words are the result of external influences and that nothing comes from himself. He will understand and see that he is in fact an automaton acting under the influences of external stimuli. He will feel his complete mechanicalness. Everything 'happens,' he cannot 'do' anything. He is a machine controlled by accidental shocks from outside. Each shock calls to the surface one of his I's. A new shock and that I disappears and a different one takes its place. Another small change in the environment and again there is a newI. A man will begin to under-stand that he has no control of himself whatever, that he does not know what he may say or do the next moment, he will begin to understand that he cannot answer for himself even for the shortest length of time. He will understand that if he remains the same and does nothing unexpected, it is simply because no unexpected outside changes are taking place. He will understand that his actions are entirely controlled by external conditions and he will be convinced that there is nothing permanent in him from which control could come, not a single permanent function, not a single permanent state."

But by observing in yourself the appearance and the disappearance of consciousness you will inevitably see one fact which you neither see nor acknowledge now, and that is that moments of consciousness are very short and are separated by long intervals of completely unconscious, mechanical working of the machine. You will then see that you can think, feel, act speak, work, without being conscious of it. And if you learn to see in yourselves the moments of consciousness and the long periods of mechanicalness, you will as infallibly see in other people when they are conscious of what they are doing and when they are not.

But even a momentary awakening of conscience in a man who has thousands of different I's is bound to involve suffering. And if these moments of conscience become longer and if a man does not fear them but on the contrary cooperates with them and tries to keep and prolong them, an element of very subtle joy, a foretaste of the future 'clear consciousness' will gradually enter into these moments.

Both consciousness and the different degrees of consciousness must be understood in oneself by sensation, by taste. No definitions can help you in this case and no definitions are possible so long as you do not understand what you have to define.

And what do you mean by "understanding once for all the consequences of our actions" being the main Being "caller"? Sorry that I'm a bit slow here, thank you!

Those very moments in which we understand that our "actions, thoughts, feelings, and words are the result of external influences" as Gurdjieff puts it, are moments of lucidity, of conscience awakening, of Being, prolonging those states is growing in Being, and only then can we consciously do and change the course of things.

If I think about it, what I described in my initial post may have been a success in reducing my mecahnical suffering, however small and temporarily it might have been. I felt drained by thought-loops about work/daily life, and I somehow managed to "disconnect the draining pipeline", so to speak. But I realize now that there is, as it seems to be the case with so many spiritual matters, a fine line, in this case between beneficial meditation to reduce draining and the wish to shut out from reality just to "feel better".

And this may have something to do with "having vs. being". Maybe a lot of "mechanical suffering" / draining has to do with our desire to "have" - be it job positions, recognition, people, thoughts, blissful states etc., osit. So maybe one way of looking at it is that the desire to "have" or "possess" a blissful state of emptiness is not the right approach, whereas "to be" in a blissful state of lucidity, where one is not drained by thought loops and can look at things more clearly, can be something of value.

Hopefully you undertand that reciting the word Be or meditating in certain ways, is not gonna change anything as long as you don't work to observe yourself in your every day life too, the aim is to achieve those very moments of lucidity and work to make them permanent. Only from there things can really change.
If you haven't done so you may want to read In search of the miraculous by Ouspensky.

 

[luc]

Thank you very much, Ana, that was very helpful. Thanks to your post and other posts I've read recently, it begins to dawn on me to what extend I'm still a reaction machine. This is horrible.

Hopefully you undertand that reciting the word Be or meditating in certain ways, is not gonna change anything as long as you don't work to observe yourself in your every day life too, the aim is to achieve those very moments of lucidity and work to make them permanent. Only from there things can really change.
If you haven't done so you may want to read In search of the miraculous by Ouspensky.

I've read ISOTM, but only once and it was at the beginning of my involvement in the work, so I'm sure I didn't truly understand most of it. I should read it again.

I know how important self-observation is, and I thought that I already had some success, sometimes. Now I'm not so sure anymore, or maybe I went from a few moments of successful self-observation straight to "dreaming of being awake". I will think more about that and try to focus on self-observation more. Thank you again for the feedback.

 

[obyvatel]

If I think about it, what I described in my initial post may have been a success in reducing my mecahnical suffering, however small and temporarily it might have been. I felt drained by thought-loops about work/daily life, and I somehow managed to "disconnect the draining pipeline", so to speak. But I realize now that there is, as it seems to be the case with so many spiritual matters, a fine line, in this case between beneficial meditation to reduce draining and the wish to shut out from reality just to "feel better".

And this may have something to do with "having vs. being". Maybe a lot of "mechanical suffering" / draining has to do with our desire to "have" - be it job positions, recognition, people, thoughts, blissful states etc., osit. So maybe one way of looking at it is that the desire to "have" or "possess" a blissful state of emptiness is not the right approach, whereas "to be" in a blissful state of lucidity, where one is not drained by thought loops and can look at things more clearly, can be something of value.

Hi Luc,
As far as I understand, mechanical suffering often happens to us because of faulty thinking which in turn has its roots in early childhood experiences, lack of proper education and bad input from people around us and society at large. The whole shtick about getting rid of desire to become free has been around for a long time. The devil lies in the details and in most cases, efforts towards achieving such freedom practically results in disconnecting from life in one way or the other.

It is worthwhile to focus on self-observation as you stated in your last post. When you get into this, you will be able to see when you can and when you cannot self-observe. When we lose the track of self-observing, like when under strong emotions or running thought loops, I find it useful to focus on the body. If strong emotions are running the show, it is useful to focus all attention on calming down by breathing deeply with pipe breaths, sensing the ground beneath one's feet supporting one's weight etc. When running thought loops, it helps to disengage by orienting oneself to one's surroundings - an example of which would be to see objects around and mentally noting their shapes and colors etc. If thoughts and emotions lead to a state of depression and helplessness, I find it useful to focus on physical posture - like lengthening the spine and standing straight, lifting the chin up, widening the shoulders, unlocking the knees - in other words expanding the body in the three spatial directions - up wide and forward. To me, such "embodiment", when we actually inhabit the body with our consciousness and attention, is a component of "being". From such a state, it is easier to self-observe and look deeper into why we are the way we are, and eventually work towards an adaptive, empowered and creative engagement with our real life.

fwiw

 

[luc]

Hi Luc,
As far as I understand, mechanical suffering often happens to us because of faulty thinking which in turn has its roots in early childhood experiences, lack of proper education and bad input from people around us and society at large. The whole shtick about getting rid of desire to become free has been around for a long time. The devil lies in the details and in most cases, efforts towards achieving such freedom practically results in disconnecting from life in one way or the other.

It is worthwhile to focus on self-observation as you stated in your last post. When you get into this, you will be able to see when you can and when you cannot self-observe. When we lose the track of self-observing, like when under strong emotions or running thought loops, I find it useful to focus on the body. If strong emotions are running the show, it is useful to focus all attention on calming down by breathing deeply with pipe breaths, sensing the ground beneath one's feet supporting one's weight etc. When running thought loops, it helps to disengage by orienting oneself to one's surroundings - an example of which would be to see objects around and mentally noting their shapes and colors etc. If thoughts and emotions lead to a state of depression and helplessness, I find it useful to focus on physical posture - like lengthening the spine and standing straight, lifting the chin up, widening the shoulders, unlocking the knees - in other words expanding the body in the three spatial directions - up wide and forward. To me, such "embodiment", when we actually inhabit the body with our consciousness and attention, is a component of "being". From such a state, it is easier to self-observe and look deeper into why we are the way we are, and eventually work towards an adaptive, empowered and creative engagement with our real life.

fwiw

Thank you, obyvatel, for this very helpful reply. Some of what you say I have experienced myself, like in situations where I could feel the predator's mind urge to "fight or flight" and I could overcome this by focusing on the body and breathing. And what you wrote about orienting oneself to the surroundings also rings true with me, as I already felt how this can pull you back to reality in a way. However, I think my success is as of yet limited to the most obvious thought loops, while I forget to self-remember very easily when all the thousand "little" thought loops appear. Still learning I guess. Thanks again for putting all this in such clear terms.

Thanks also for putting me "on the right track" regarding "the whole shtick about getting rid of desire". Maybe this should be seen more in light of the First Initiation, in the sense that the goal is not to become desire-free, but to take notice of the "I like this, I like that!"-screams of the little I's/predator's mind and change the appreciation of oneself, osit.