The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

Laura said:
After all we have learned over the past 5 years, I don't think that any government - or any group - can long survive being overtaken and destroyed from within by psychopaths IF the government itself is not aware of them and their specific issues. History shows this to be true, so the big question is: what to do about it?
One idea would be to carry out a 'psychopathy test' on anybody wanting to be a politician or moving into a position of power.
 
paulnotbilly said:
Laura said:
After all we have learned over the past 5 years, I don't think that any government - or any group - can long survive being overtaken and destroyed from within by psychopaths IF the government itself is not aware of them and their specific issues. History shows this to be true, so the big question is: what to do about it?
One idea would be to carry out a 'psychopathy test' on anybody wanting to be a politician or moving into a position of power.
And then the "testing authority" becomes the seat of power, and WILL subsequently be infiltrated.
 
Azur said:
And then the "testing authority" becomes the seat of power, and WILL subsequently be infiltrated.
Yeah, that's the same problem I saw... Lobaczewski actually suggests something along this line but I just don't know how anything at all can be done without it ultimately being infiltrated. You can't even make any hard and fast rules about who or what kind of group shoule be "in charge" because when you do, those get co-opted and twisted.

I don't know if any of you have ever read the Oera Linda book, but it describes a form of governance by "Burg Mothers" who, apparently, were selected by the outgoing Burg Mother after the new candidates had spent literally years in apprenticeship so that they could not only be taught how to handle the problems of the group, but also so she could have a long period of time observing and interacting with them so as to weed out the deviant elements.

Apparently, even this failed eventually... It seems as though the "pool" from which Burg Mothers were selected became less than optimum, shall we say?

The only other thing we are left with is to rely on ecological models of wildlife. When the rabbits become too numerous, the foxes increase and eat more of them until they are almost gone and then the foxes begin to die off from starvation and the rabbits then begin to increase. And of course, during any given period, "only the strong and smart" of either population survive during the dominance of the other.

Maybe this happens with the human population as well... at intervals.
 
Laura said:
Azur said:
And then the "testing authority" becomes the seat of power, and WILL subsequently be infiltrated.
Yeah, that's the same problem I saw... Lobaczewski actually suggests something along this line but I just don't know how anything at all can be done without it ultimately being infiltrated. You can't even make any hard and fast rules about who or what kind of group shoule be "in charge" because when you do, those get co-opted and twisted.
I've wondered about this. The most important thing seems to be that the knowledge of psychopaths is made common knowledge, so that any system (or lack of system) takes that into account. Also, it seems to me that there just can't be a huge centralised power structure - the heirarchical view doesn't work, is completely susceptible to pathocratisation.So is 'regionalism' useful?

The Aboriginal way of life is very interesting and has apparently continued largly unchanged for tens of thousands of years. Maybe that should be a model? This story has various ideas in it, and seems to illustrate how appropriate knowledge is used to deal with psychopathy at a local level so it is not allowed to spread:

http://www.dreamtime.net.au/minnawee/index.cfm
Peace and harmony are essential in any community. Find out what happens when someone is determined to cause trouble. The story of Min-Na-Wee and why the crocodile rolls contains a powerful message for young people about the effects of their behaviour on others.

As the last rays of the beautiful red-pink sun set on the small camp and the sweeping coastal plain, all the little girls played, enjoying themselves.

All the young boys were with their fathers, learning the ways of manhood. The mothers were preparing for the evening meal. There was fresh fish cooking on the coals, with freshly-caught mud crabs and mussels.

Everyone in the group was contented, the season had been good for them. Plenty of fresh food. Everyone except little Min-na-wee was happy.

Min-na-wee was different. From a little girl, Min-na-wee liked to cause trouble amongst the other little girls. Min-na-wee's face was so hard and scaly-looking, it mostly revealed her hatred.

The old people knew of Min-na-wee's efforts to start trouble, which led to fights. Not only among the little girls, but also their mothers.

The old people warned Min-na-wee's mother that if she did not stop Min-na-wee making humbug, then something terrible would happen to her.

Years passed and Min-na-wee grew into a young woman, but she still liked to cause trouble. One day all the young women, including Min-na-wee, had to prepare to be selected as brides. Min-na-wee stood in a line with all the other girls. The old people pointed out which men were to marry which women. By the end of the ceremony, Min-na-wee was left standing alone. She had not been chosen to become a wife.

Min-na-wee's hatred grew stronger and stronger. She caused more and more trouble in the camp. Fights were breaking out every day amongst the tribe. Min-na-wee sat back in her little humpy and watched. She was pleased with herself.

The Elders of the tribe agreed that Min-na-wee must be punished for what she had done.

Min-na-wee had little knowledge of the tribe's decision. As she approached the women to cause another fight, she was grabbed by the men and rolled around and around in the dirt.

She managed to escape and run in to the edge of the sea where she called on the evil spirits to change her into a vicious animal so she could stage a revenge attack on her tribe. Min-na-wee was changed into a large crocodile and slid into the muddy waters, awaiting her prey.

The tribespeople thought no more of Min-na-wee and carried out their daily events. As they wandered along the banks, hunting for mud crabs, Min-na-wee lay waiting. One of the men who had taken part in Min-na-wee's punishment jumped into the water. Min-na-wee crept up behind and grabbed him. She told him she would roll him around and around, as he had done to her. Over and over, she continued to roll him in the water, until she was satisfied he was punished enough.

To this day, Min-na-wee's spirit still remains with the crocodiles and that is why every time that a crocodile catches its prey, it always will roll around and around in the water.
 
sleepyvinny said:
The Aboriginal way of life is very interesting and has apparently continued largly unchanged for tens of thousands of years. Maybe that should be a model? This story has various ideas in it, and seems to illustrate how appropriate knowledge is used to deal with psychopathy at a local level so it is not allowed to spread
I am also wondering if the tribe lifestyle would not be better in some ways.

But Tribes are far from perfect, as shown in the BBC serie TRIBES, although some managed to retain their lifestyle through many years, society as whole is threathening them.
Moreover, some archaic superstitions or rituals aren't beneficial at all imho (Excision for example).

It's all easy for us to judge them for sure but you could see that some tribes were frozen in time with not much chance for spiritual evolution towards a better understanding of the world, as usual it is not clear cut, as some tribes show a considerable knowldege of things our modern society has forgotten but at the same time it paralyzes them into non-action.

I don't imagine us going back in a cave, I don't know if that wouldn't be counter productive.
Maybe there is some kind of balance to find between a modern lifestyle (with technology) and a tribe lifestyle (with an understanding of the world close to you.)

Just a few thoughts.
 
My opinion was that all normal people should become aware of psychopaths, and get together, have many children, raise them with the knowledge of psychopaths, if children are born psychopaths, to be raised in ways that tone down their psychopathy, etc. I'd make a good dictator, no? ;)

I then realized that most people with their "je m'en fous" attitute, truly don't give a damn about knowing about psychopaths, pathocracy, etc. So perhaps it is indeed as Laura says

The only other thing we are left with is to rely on ecological models of wildlife. When the rabbits become too numerous, the foxes increase and eat more of them until they are almost gone and then the foxes begin to die off from starvation and the rabbits then begin to increase. And of course, during any given period, "only the strong and smart" of either population survive during the dominance of the other.

Maybe this happens with the human population as well... at intervals.
So, my view now is that psychopaths have as much right to be psychopaths and do their psychopathic stuff, as we have to be ourselves with conscience (hopefuly!) and play the "save your soul/true essence" game by making sure we don't get infected by them, and try to spread the knowledge as far and wide as possible.

Remember the end of the Matrix? The Matrix went on as it forever did, though with no agent Smiths. People continued to live in the Matrix and feed the machines though. But the people who escaped were given a break and could live in their world in peace (for the time being) as they wished to live.
 
sleepyvinny said:
Also, it seems to me that there just can't be a huge centralised power structure - the heirarchical view doesn't work, is completely susceptible to pathocratisation.So is 'regionalism' useful?
There's a lot in this thread to ponder and I'm still pondering. I've wondered about this as well, especially in regards to the U.S. "Articles of Confederation." I know little about them, but that it was a far more decentralized form of government, with power being centered more in the individual states rather than in the centralized federal government. All I really learned about them was that they were not "successful"--and were abolished in favor of the U.S. Constitution. Successful for whom I now wonder? With the suspicion that I now look at all historical events, I'm very suspicious that the far more decentralized form of government represented by these "Articles" would not have allowed us to reach the point where we stand today--i.e. Pathocracy at the edge of global destruction.
 
paulnotbilly said:
Laura said:
After all we have learned over the past 5 years, I don't think that any government - or any group - can long survive being overtaken and destroyed from within by psychopaths IF the government itself is not aware of them and their specific issues. History shows this to be true, so the big question is: what to do about it?
One idea would be to carry out a 'psychopathy test' on anybody wanting to be a politician or moving into a position of power.
Maybe we can use dogs for that.
Apparently they can smell cancer: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/24/health/main645357.shtml
 
domivr said:
paulnotbilly said:
Laura said:
After all we have learned over the past 5 years, I don't think that any government - or any group - can long survive being overtaken and destroyed from within by psychopaths IF the government itself is not aware of them and their specific issues. History shows this to be true, so the big question is: what to do about it?
One idea would be to carry out a 'psychopathy test' on anybody wanting to be a politician or moving into a position of power.
Maybe we can use dogs for that.
Apparently they can smell cancer: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/24/health/main645357.shtml
I wonder what validity would be a (Health) kinesilogy test for this ?

But the problem would be what would happen then ?

It has often been said, they are not going without a fight and they have much power than we do for the moment, at least it seems like that to me.
 
To me it seems that psychopathy is inheritantly genetic, and therefore, once you identified markers for the trait you could test for it. They do this sort of thing with cancer genes, you can spend 300-5000$ on genetics tests that tell you what markers you have an concurrently - what that means in terms of your suceptibility to certain cancers.

Actually this is something id love to work on, there's an idea for a phD thesis... i guess it'd be a combined psychology/genetics program of some sort... wonder if there's any schools that would lean that way sotospeak.
 
My guess is that the pathocratic push for "mapping the genome" includes being able to indentify "normies" that may cause problems. Because, certainly, if there are genetic markers for psychpaths, maybe there are also markers for the "souled"variety of human as opposed to the OP type. And maybe the souled type is already targeted via "ethnic specific weapons"??

Not a pleasant thought.

As for what type of social/governmental structure would be best for keeping psychopaths out, Lobaczewski does address this and points out that large, imperialist type systems are way too prone to ponerization, and that smaller systems that are still capable of supporting "community type feeling" across the entire "domain" are far better able to resist ponerization.

For those interested in reading that particular series of comments by Lobaczewski, I paste them in below. A lot of food for thought:

Society

Nature has designed man to be social, a state of affairs encoded early, on the instinctual level of our species as described above. Our minds and personalities could not possibly develop without contact and interaction with an ever-widening circle of people. Our mind receives input from others, whether consciously or unconsciously, in regard to matters of emotional and mental life, tradition and thought, by means of resonant sensitivity, identification, imitation, and by exchange of ideas, and permanent rules. The material we obtain in these ways is then transformed by our psyche in order to create a new human personality, one we call "our own". However, our existence is contingent upon necessary links with those who lived before, those who presently make up our society, and those who shall exist in the future. Our existence only assumes meaning as a function of societal bonds; hedonistic isolation causes us to lose our selves.

It is man's fate to actively cooperate in giving shape to the fate of society by two principal means: forming his individual and family life within it, and becoming active in the sum total of social affairs based on his - hopefully sufficient - comprehension of what needs to be done, what ought to be done, and whether or not he can do it. This requires an individual to develop two somewhat overlapping areas of knowledge about things; his life depends on the quality of this development, as does his nation and humanity as a whole.

If, say, we observe a beehive with a painter's eye, we see what looks like a crowding throng of insects linked by their species-similarity. A beekeeper, however, tracks complicated laws encoded in every insect's instinct and in the collective instinct of the hive as well; that helps him understand how to cooperate with the laws of nature governing apiary society. The beehive is a higher-order organism; no individual bee can exist without it, and thus it submits to the absolute nature of its laws.

If we observe the throngs of people crowding the streets of some great human metropolis, we see what looks like individuals driven by their business and problems, pursuing some crumb of happiness. However, such an oversimplification of reality causes us to disregard the laws of social life which existed long before the metropolis ever did, and which will continue to exist long after huge cities are emptied of people and purpose. Loners in a crowd have a difficult time accepting that reality, which - for them - exists in only potential form, although they cannot perceive it directly.

In reality, accepting the laws of social life in all their complexity, even if we find initial difficulties in comprehending them, helps us to come, finally, to a certain level of understanding that we acquire by something akin to osmosis. Thanks to this comprehension, or even just an instinctive intuition of such laws, an individual is able to reach his goals and mature his personality in action. Thanks to sufficient intuition and comprehension of these conditions, a society is able to progress culturally and economically and to achieve political maturity.

The more we progress in this understanding, the more social doctrines strike us as primitive and psychologically naive, especially those based on the thoughts of thinkers living during the 18th and 19th centuries which were characterized by a dearth of psychological perception. The suggestive nature of these doctrines derives from their oversimplification of reality, something easily adapted and used in political propaganda. These doctrines and ideologies show their basic faults, in regard to the understanding of human personalities and differences among people, all rather clearly if viewed in the light of our natural language of psychological concepts, and even more so in the light of objective language.

A psychologist's view of society, even if based only on professional experience, always places the human individual in the foreground; it then widens the perspective to include small groups, such as families, and finally societies and humanity as whole. We must then accept from the outset that an individual's fate is significantly dependent upon circumstance. When we gradually increase the scope of our observations, we also gain a greater pictorial specificity of causative links, and statistical data assume ever greater stability.

In order to describe the interdependence between someone's fate and personality, and the state of development of society, we must study the entire body of information collected in this area to date, adding a new work written in objective language. Herein I shall adduce only a few examples of such reasoning in order to open the door to questions presented in later chapters.

~~~

Throughout the ages and in various cultures, the best pedagogues have understood the importance, regarding the formation of a culture and a person's character, of the scope of concepts describing psychological phenomena. The quality and richness of concepts and terminology mastered by an individual and society, as well as the degree to which they approximate an objective world view, condition the development of our moral and social attitudes. The correctness of our understanding of self and others characterizes the components conditioning our decisions and choices, be they mundane or important, in our private lives and social activities.

The level and quality of a given society's psychological worldview is also a condition of realization of the full socio-psychological structure present as a potential in the psychological variety within our species. Only when we can understand a person in relation to his actual internal contents, not some substituted external label, can we help him along his path to proper adjustment to social life, which would be to his advantage and would also assist in the creation of a stable and creative structure of society.

Supported by a proper feel for, and understanding of, psychological qualities, such a structure would impart high social office to individuals possessing both full psychological normality, sufficient talent and specific preparation. The basic collective intelligence of the masses of people would then respect and support them.

And so, in such a society, the only pending problems to be resolved would be those matters so difficult as to overwhelm the natural language of concepts, however enriched and qualitatively ennobled.

However, there have always been "society pedagogues", less outstanding but more numerous, who have become fascinated by their own great ideas, which might, sometimes, even be true, but are more often constricted or contain the taint of some hidden pathological thought processes. Such people have always striven to impose pedagogical methods which would impoverish and deform the development of individuals' and societies' psychological world view; they inflict permanent harm upon societies, depriving them of universally useful values. By claiming to act in the name of a more valuable idea, such pedagogues actually undermine the values they claim and open the door for destructive ideologies.

At the same time, as we have already mentioned, each society contains a small but active minority of persons with various deviant worldviews, especially in the areas treated above, which are caused either by psychological anomalies, to be discussed below, or by the long-term influence of such anomalies upon their psyches, especially during childhood. Such people later exert a pernicious influence upon the formative process of the psychological world view in society, whether by direct activity or by means of written or other transmission, especially if they engage in the service of some ideology or other.

Many causes which easily escape the notice of sociologists and political scientists can thus be broken down into either the development or involution of this factor, whose meaning for the life of society is as decisive as the quality of their language of psychological concepts.

Let us imagine that we want to analyze these processes: we would construct a sufficiently credible inventory method which would examine the contents and correctness of the area of world view in question. After subjecting the appropriate representative groups to such testing, we would then obtain indicators of that particular society's ability to understand psychological phenomena and dependencies within their country and other nations. This would simultaneously constitute the basic indicators of said society's talent for self-government and progress, as well as its ability to carry on a reasonable international policy. Such tests could provide an early warning system if such abilities were to deteriorate, in which case, it would be proper to make the appropriate efforts in the realm of social pedagogy. In extreme cases, it might be proper for those countries evaluating the problem to take more direct corrective action, even to isolating the deteriorating country until the appropriate corrections are well under way.

Let as adduce another example of a congenial nature: the development of an adult human's gifts, skills, realistic thought, and natural psychological world view will be optimal where the level and quality of his education and the demands of his professional practice correspond to his individual talents. Achieving such a position provides personal, material, and moral advantages to him; society as whole also reaps benefits at the same time. Such a person would then perceive it as social justice in relation to himself.

If various circumstances combine, including a given society's deficient psychological world view, individual's are forced to exercise functions which do not make full use of his or her talents. When this happens, said person's productivity is no better, and often even worse, than that of a worker with satisfactory talents. Such an individual then feels cheated and inundated by duties which prevent him from achieving self-realization. His thoughts wander from his duties into a world of fantasy, or into matters which are of greater interest to him; in his daydream world, he is what he should and deserves to be. Such a person always knows if his social and professional adjustment has taken a downward direction; at the same time, however, if he fails to develop a healthy critical faculty concerning the upper limits of his own talents, his daydreams may "fix on" an unfair world where "all you need is power". Revolutionary and radical ideas find fertile soil among such people in downward social adaptations. It is in society's best interests to correct such conditions not only for better productivity, but to avoid tragedies.

Another type of individual, on the other hand, may achieve an important post because they belong to privileged social groups or organizations in power while their talents and skills are not sufficient for their duties, especially the more difficult problems. Such persons then avoid the problematic and dedicate themselves to minor matters quite ostentatiously. A component of histrionics appears in their conduct and tests indicate that their correctness of reasoning progressively deteriorates after only a few years' worth of such activities. In the face of increasing pressures to perform at a level unattainable for them, and in fear of being discovered as incompetent, they begin to direct attacks against anyone with greater talent or skill, removing them from appropriate posts and playing an active role in degrading their social and professional adjustment. This, of course, engenders a feeling of injustice and can lead to the problems of the downwardly adapted individual as described above. Upwardly-adjusted people thus favor whip-cracking, totalitarian governments which would protect their positions.

Upward and downward social adjustments, as well the qualitatively improper ones, result in a waste of any society's basic capital, namely the talent pool of its members. This simultaneously leads to increasing dissatisfaction and tensions among individuals and social groups; any attempt to approach human talent and its productivity problematics as a purely private matter must therefore be considered dangerously naive. Development or involution in all areas of cultural, economic and political life depend on the extent to which this talent pool is properly utilized. In the final analysis, it also determines whether there will be evolution or revolution.

Technically speaking, it would be easier to construct appropriate methods that enable us to evaluate the correlations between individual talents and social adjustment in a given country, than to deal with the prior proposition of the development of psychological concepts. Conducting the proper tests would furnish us a valuable index that we might call "the social order indicator." The closer the figure to +1.0, the more likely the country in question would be to fulfill that basic precondition for social order and take the proper path in the direction of dynamic development. A low correlation would be an indication that social reform is needed. A near-zero or even negative correlation should be interpreted as a danger-sign that revolution is imminent. Revolutions in one country often cause manifold problems for other countries, so it is in the best interests of all countries to monitor such conditions.

The examples adduced above do not exhaust the question of causative factors influencing the creation of a social structure which would adequately correspond to the laws of nature. Our species-instinct level has already encoded the intuition that the existence of society's internal structure, based on psychological variations, is necessary; it continues to develop alongside our basic intelligence, inspiring our healthy common sense. This explains why the most numerous part of populations, whose talents are near average, generally accepts its modest social position in any country as long as the position fulfills the indispensable requirements of proper social adjustment and guarantees an equitable way of life no matter at what level of society the individual finds their proper fit.

This average majority accepts and respects the social role of people whose talents and education are superior, as long as they occupy appropriate positions within the social structure. The same people, however, will react with criticism, disrespect, and even contempt, whenever someone as average as themselves compensates for his deficiencies by flaunting an upwardly-adjusted position. The judgments pronounced by this sphere of average but sensible people can often be highly accurate, which can and should be all the more remarkable if we take into account that said people could not possibly have had sufficient knowledge of many of the actual problems, be they scientific, technical, or economic.

An experienced politician can rarely assume that the difficulties in the areas of economics, defense, or international policy will be fully understand by his constituency. However, he can and should assume that his own comprehension of human matters, and anything having to do with interpersonal relations within said structure, will find an echo in this same majority of his society's members. These facts partially justify the idea of democracy, especially if a particular country has historically had such a tradition, the social structure is well developed, and the level of education is adequate. Nevertheless, they do not represent psychological data sufficient to raise democracy to the level of a moral criterion in politics. A democracy composed of individuals of inadequate psychological knowledge can only devolve.

The same politician should be conscious of the fact that society contains people who already carry the psychological results of social maladjustment. Some of these individuals attempt to protect positions for which their skills are not commensurate, while others fight to be allowed to use their talents. Governing a country becomes increasingly difficult when such battles begin to eclipse other important needs. That is why the creation of a fair social structure continues to be a basic precondition for social order and the liberation of creative values. It also explains why the propriety and productivity of a structure-creation process constitute a criterion for a good political system.

Politicians should also be aware that in each society there are people whose basic intelligence, natural psychological world view, and moral reasoning have developed improperly. Some of these persons contain the cause within themselves, others were subjected to psychologically abnormal people as children. Such individuals' comprehension of social and moral questions is different, both from the natural and from the objective viewpoint; they constitute a destructive factor for the development of society's psychological concepts, social structure, and internal bonds.

At the same time, such people easily interpenetrate the social structure with a ramified network of mutual pathological conspiracies poorly connected to the main social structure. These people and their networks participate in the genesis of that evil which spares no nation. This substructure gives birth to dreams of obtaining power and imposing one's will upon society, and is quite often actually brought about in various countries, and during historical times as well. It is for this reason that a significant portion of our consideration shall be devoted to an understanding of this age-old and dangerous source of problems.

Some countries with a non-homogeneous population manifest further factors which operate destructively upon the formation of social structure and the permanent developmental processes of a society's psychological world view. Primarily among these are the racial, ethnic, and cultural differences existing in virtually every conquest-engendered nation. Memories of former sufferings and contempt for the vanquished continue to divide the population for centuries. It is possible to overcome these difficulties if understanding and goodwill prevail throughout several generations.

Differences in religious beliefs and the moral convictions related thereto continue to cause problems, albeit less dangerous than the above, unless aggravated by some doctrine of intolerance or superiority of one faith above others. The creation of a social structure whose links are patriotic and supra-religious has, after all, been demonstrated as possible.

All these difficulties become extremely destructive if a social or religious group, in keeping with its doctrine, demands that its members be accorded positions which are in fact upward-adjusted with relation to these people's true talents.

A just social structure woven of individually adjusted persons, i.e. creative and dynamic as a whole, can only take shape if this process is subjected to its natural laws rather than some conceptual doctrines. It benefits society as a whole for each individual to be able to find his own way to self-realization with assistance from a society which understands these laws, individual interests and the common good.

One obstacle to the development of a society's psychological world view, the building of a healthy societal structure, and the institution of proper forms for governing the nation, would appear to be the enormous populations and vast distances of giant countries. It is just precisely these nations which give rise to the greatest ethnic and cultural variations. In a vast spreading land containing hundreds of millions of people, individuals lack the support of a familiar homeland and feel powerless to exert an effect upon matters of high politics. The structure of society becomes lost in wide-open spaces. What remains is narrow, generally familial, links.

At the same time, governing such a country creates its own unavoidable problems: giants suffer from what could be called permanent macropathy (giant sickness), since the principal authorities are far away from any individual or local matters. The main symptom is the proliferation of regulations required for administration; they may appear proper in the capital but are often meaningless in outlying districts or when applied to individual matters. Officials are forced to follow regulations blindly; the scope of using their human reason and differentiating real situations becomes very narrow indeed. Such behavioral procedures have an impact upon the society, which also starts to think regulations instead of practical and psychological reality. The psychological world view, which constitutes the basic factor in cultural development and activates social life, thus becomes involuted.

It thus behooves us to ask: Is good government possible? Are giant countries capable of sustaining social and cultural evolution? It would appear, rather, that the best candidates for development are those countries whose populations number between ten and twenty million, and where personal bonds among citizens, and between citizens and their authorities, still safeguard correct psychological differentiation and natural relationships. Overly large countries should be divided into smaller organisms enjoying considerable autonomy, especially as regards cultural and economic matters; they could afford their citizens a feeling of homeland within which their personalities could develop and mature.

If someone asked me what should be done to heal the United States of America, a country which manifests symptoms of macropathy, inter alia, I would advise subdividing that vast nation into thirteen states--just like the original ones, except correspondingly larger and with more natural boundaries. Such states should then be given considerable autonomy. That would afford citizens a feeling of homeland, albeit a smaller one, and liberate the motivations of local patriotism and rivalry among such states. This would, in turn, facilitate solutions to other problems with a different origin.

~~~

Society is not an organism subordinating every cell to the good of the whole; neither is it a colony of insects, where the collective instinct acts like a dictator. However, it should also avoid being a compendium of egocentric individuals linked purely by economic interests and legal and formal organizations.

Any society is a socio-psychological structure woven of individuals whose psychological organization is the highest, and thus the most variegated. A significant scope of man's individual freedom derives from this state of affairs and subsists in an extremely complicated relationship to his manifold psychological dependencies and duties, with regard to this collective whole.

Isolating an individual's personal interest as if it were at war with collective interests is pure speculation which radically oversimplifies real conditions instead of tracking their complex nature. Asking questions based on such schemes is logically defective, since it contains erroneous suggestions.

In reality, many ostensibly contradictory interests, such as individual vs. collective or those of various social groups and substructures, could be reconciled if we could be guided by a sufficiently penetrating understanding of the good of man and society, and if we could overcome the operations of emotions as well as some more or less primitive doctrines. Such reconciliation, however, requires transferring the human and social problems in question to a higher level of understanding and acceptance of the natural laws of life. At this level, even the most difficult problems turn out to have a solution, since they invariably derive from the same insidious operations of psychopathological phenomena. We shall deal with this question toward the end of this book.

A colony of insects, no matter how well-organized socially, is doomed to extinction whenever its collective instinct continues to operate according to the psychogenetic code, although the biological meaning has disappeared. If, for instance, a queen bee does not affect her nuptial flight in time because the weather has been particularly bad, she begins laying unfertilized eggs which will hatch nothing but drones. The bees continue to defend their queen, as required by their instinct; of course, and when the worker bees die out the hive becomes extinct.

At that point, only a "higher authority" in the shape of a beekeeper can save such a hive. He must find and destroy the drone queen and insinuate a healthy fertilized queen into the hive along with a few of her young workers. A net is required for a few days to protect such a queen and her providers from being stung by those bees loyal to the old queen. Then the hive instinct accepts the new one. The apiarist generally suffers a few painful stings in the process.

The following question derives from the above comparison: Can the human hive inhabiting our globe achieve sufficient comprehension of macrosocial pathological phenomenon which is so dangerous, abhorrent, and fascinating at the same time, before it is too late? At present, our individual and collective instincts and our natural psychological and moral world view cannot furnish all the answers upon which to base skillful counteractive measures.

Those fair-minded people who preach that all we have left is to trust in the "Great Apiarist in the sky" and a return to His commandments are glimpsing a general truth, but they also tend to trivialize particular truths, especially the naturalistic ones. It is the latter which constitute a basis for comprehending phenomena and targeting practical action. The laws of nature have made us very different from one another. Thanks to his individual characteristics, exceptional life-circumstances, and scientific effort, man may have achieved some mastery of the art of objectively comprehending the phenomena of the above-mentioned type, but we must underscore that this could only occur because it was in accordance with the laws of nature.

If societies and their wise people are able to accept an objective understanding of social and sociopathological phenomena, overcoming the emotionalism and egotism of the natural world view for this purpose, they shall find a means of action based on an understanding of the essence of the phenomena. It will then become evident that a proper vaccine or treatment can be found for each of the diseases scourging the earth in the form of major or minor social epidemics.

Just as a sailor possessing an accurate nautical map enjoys greater freedom of course-selection and maneuvering amid islands and bays, a person endowed with a better comprehension of self, other people, and the complex interdependencies of social life becomes more independent of the various circumstances of life and better able to overcome situations which are difficult to understand. At the same time, such improved knowledge makes an individual more liable to accept his duties toward society and to subordinate himself to the discipline which arises as a corollary. Better informed societies also achieve internal order and criteria for collective efforts. This book is dedicated to reinforcing this knowledge by means of a naturalistic understanding of phenomena, something heretofore comprehended only by means of excessively moralistic categories of the natural world view.

In a wider perspective, a constantly improving grasp of the laws governing social life, and its atypical secluded recesses, must lead us to reflect upon the failings and deficiencies of those social doctrines expounded to date, which were based on an extremely primitive understanding of these laws and phenomena. The distance is not far between such considerations and a better understanding of the operations of these dependencies in former and existing social systems; the same applies to substantive critiques thereof. A new idea is about to be born based upon this ever-deepening comprehension of natural laws, namely the building of a new social system for nations.
Such a system would be better than any of its predecessors. Building it is possible and necessary, not just some vague futuristic vision. After all, a whole series of countries is now dominated by conditions which have destroyed the structural forms worked out by history and replaced them with social systems inimical to creative functioning, systems which can only survive by means of force. We are thus confronted with a great construction project demanding wide-ranging and well-organized work. The earlier we undertake the job, the more time we will have to carry it out.
 
Cyre2067 said:
To me it seems that psychopathy is inheritantly genetic, and therefore, once you identified markers for the trait you could test for it. They do this sort of thing with cancer genes, you can spend 300-5000$ on genetics tests that tell you what markers you have an concurrently - what that means in terms of your suceptibility to certain cancers.

Actually this is something id love to work on, there's an idea for a phD thesis... i guess it'd be a combined psychology/genetics program of some sort... wonder if there's any schools that would lean that way sotospeak.
I think it would make a great thesis too but it may actually require a wise as serpent approach. I don't think there are too many department heads who want to support a psychopath gene study even when they say, 'genetic studies into psychopathy" I am just starting a PhD program in biological psych/behavioral neuroscience. When I was applying to graduate programs, the ones doing serious psychopathy research stateside were mostly clinical programs. I wanted to do basic science and the schools that I applied to did not allow the interdepartmental work in this way, believe me I asked department heads. Sometimes you can't be so direct and I guess psychopathy research is compartmentalized for a reason. Most of the people researching and writing about psychopathy are also clinicians. This is important but for me personally, I don't have the fortitude to work directly with patients in this way so the clinician pathway is not for me. Those of us who have read lobaczwsky, Cleckly etc have a clinical picture but I also think the basic biological science research is desperately needed in this area. I am focusing on the schizophrenia spectrum disorders because I believe there is something there as far as getting insight into psycopathy. Fortunately for now the neurobiology of schizophrenia is one of the more funded areas of research because the disorder is most taxing for the meltal health care system. Neurobiology of psycopathy seems to be mostly brain imaging correlations with the psychopathy checklist scores. I think that fits with mostly what we would call the 'failed" psychopaths. Like the clinical studies they are also important but what about the genes?
The genetic identification is even more important considering that many never commit a crime. Write a thesis proposal looking into that. I KNOW the likelihood of it being accepted is very low.

Mark Lenzenweger at binghamton university in NY is interesting. He is beginning to look into the neuroendocrine aspects of personality disorders but not genetic stuff yet.
 
Not to change the direction of this thread, but I thought I would add that there are two "companion" films to The Revolution Will Not Be Televised:

Llaguno Bridge -- Keys to a Massacre

and

The Fourth World War -- History of the Bolivarian Revolution

Both are related to the Revolution film, but focus on different aspects. The Llaguno Bridge DVD is important in that it shows in very clear detail how the private, corporate media constructed the false footage which was aired during the coup. A engrossing and disturbing film, but it should be viewed after "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" as otherwise the viewer might not understand the context of what is being discussed.

The Fourth World War is a much broader history, and also includes extensive interviews with the people of Venezuela.

The venezuelasolidary.org.uk site offers all 3 DVDs at a reduced price. I am not advocating or endorsing them, just pointing out that they make them available.
 
nktulloch said:
Cyre2067 said:
To me it seems that psychopathy is inheritantly genetic, and therefore, once you identified markers for the trait you could test for it. They do this sort of thing with cancer genes, you can spend 300-5000$ on genetics tests that tell you what markers you have an concurrently - what that means in terms of your suceptibility to certain cancers.

Actually this is something id love to work on, there's an idea for a phD thesis... i guess it'd be a combined psychology/genetics program of some sort... wonder if there's any schools that would lean that way sotospeak.
I think it would make a great thesis too but it may actually require a wise as serpent approach. I don't think there are too many department heads who want to support a psychopath gene study even when they say, 'genetic studies into psychopathy"
I agree. I think even pitching it as something generic and innocuous like "genetic effects on social behavioural patterns" may ping up warning signs somewhere. Best to find some way to keep off the radar. I'm sure psychopathy is going to become a 'hot' subject pretty rapidly: with some cointelpro counter effort as we ramp up the publicity campaign to get the psychopathy/pathocracy info out there.
 
See : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3138104855919136585&hl=fr (spanish - french, maybe there is an english version somewhere)
for all the manipulations of RCTV

And news :

Silenced Venezuelan TV station moves to YouTube (cnn.com)
POSTED: 8:46 a.m. EDT, June 3, 2007


CARACAS, Venezuela (CNN) -- Radio Caracas Television, the station silenced by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, has found a way to continue its daily broadcasts -- on YouTube, the popular video Web site.

Although the station is officially off the air, CNN's Harris Whitbeck said its news department continues to operate on reduced staffing, and the three daily hour-long installments of the newscast "El Observador" are uploaded onto YouTube by RCTV's Web department.

In addition, RCTV's Colombia-based affiliate, Caracol, has agreed to transmit the evening installment of "El Observador" over its international signal. The program, which will run at midnight, could reach about 800,000 people in Venezuela.

Although this is drastically reduced from RCTV's previous audience, its continued presence is a sign of hope for the staff.

"We're just doing our job as journalists," said an employee of RCTV. "As long as somebody is seeing us, we consider what we are doing to be valid."

Thousands of people, most of them from area universities, took to the streets of Caracas in protest this week after Chavez refused to renew RCTV's broadcasting license, which expired last Sunday. (I-Report: Watch marchers fill street to protest station's closing Video)

Chavez accused RCTV of violating broadcast laws and supporting a botched coup against him in 2002. He replaced RCTV on Monday with a state-run broadcast station .

RCTV, which had been on air for 53 years, aired soap operas, programs and news broadcasts with a decidedly anti-governmental perspective. It was one of only a handful of private broadcast stations in Venezuela that openly criticized the government. Another, Globovision, has received similar threats from Chavez regarding its right to broadcast.

One of YouTube's many features is the option for viewers to comment on the posted videos, and recently old and new segments of RCTV programming on the site have been accompanied by fiery debate about the limits of free expression.

"Cerrar un medio de comunicacion es una monstruosidad sin excusa alguna," stated one commenter: "To close a means of communication is an inexcusable monstrosity."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/05/31/venezuela.media/index.html
 

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