The Situation In Germany

Ursus Minor

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thumbs down: The German elites have had it with Merkel

You know you're in deep trouble when ARD's main news program Tagesschau, usually known for pandering to Christian centrist coalition governments, has allowed one of its staff members to publish a lengthy rant about your personality, your job achievements and the fact that others dislike you. Especially when you're the German Federal Chancellor.

The following commentary was published this morning (June 25), following the weekend's EU emergency meeting on immigration and restriction of movement of asylum seekers that was intended to help Merkels ruling coalition from crumbling at home.

Apart from being broadcast on several affiliated radio stations it appeared on the Tagesschau website:

Tagesschau Kommentar 25.06.18


There's no trust left for Merkel in the EU

The EU meeting bore no results. Chancellor Merkel's style of politics provides for a bad mood on the European political scene. A restart will be necessary at the Chancellor's Office.

It's a declaration of bankruptcy by the EU: Nothing's doing with one of the most important political subjects of our time. The heads of state and governments could only manage to say things like: The EU borders will really have to be protected.
Nobody still has any trust for anyone, namely the German Federal Chancellor.

In many European countries just mentioning her name is creating a bad mood.

How could things end up this way? It's basically quite simple. It's the style of Angela Merkel's politics...

Merkel and European solidarity

When the number of people fleeing to Europe was continously rising in 2011 and 2012, Merkel let us know that is wasn't her main problem, rather that of Italy and Greece. It was only in 2015, when the columns of refugees had reached the Bavarian border that she discovered the much-heralded „European solidarity“ which at that time couldn't be brought about fast enough. Suddenly it turned out to be her problem and there was no time left for long negotiations.

Pressured, Merkel was even risking the splitting of the EU while sidelining the East Europeans, overruling them and trying to force them to accept refugees quotas.
Imagine what would have happened if Germany had been treated that way.

Scorched earth, everywhere you look

Similarly ruthless was her reaction towards Greece during the EURO common currency crisis, when she foisted her kind of austerity on the country and neglected rising youth unemployment in mediterranean countries.

Merkel has left scorched earth, everywhere you look.

Following her policy of no compromise and non-agreement, more and more countries were swinging to the right, or extreme right. In Germany the AfD is moving from victory to victory(..)

A need for a new beginning at the chancellor's office

Common European solutions that are necessary to get a grip on the problem of migration are receding into the distance because of the swing to the right.

Dear Angela Merkel, after being chancellor for 13 years there is nothing to gain for you anymore at the European level except palpable disgust which has been proved by all meetings during the last months.

Please help in stopping the seemingly inevitable trend for a European split-up!

Vacate the Chancellor's Office for a successor whose name is not as fraught as yours.

Someone who will still be listened to by Europe. Someone who can really be trusted to have an eye on everyone's interests.

Let us try a fresh start.


I understand that this commentary has not made it to a TV program, just to the radio and internet. There may be factions within the ARD media that are still trying to keep commentaries and articles of this kind away from the greater mainstream.

Within the commentary you can almost feel the sense of urgency that probably keeps the German and EU handlers up at night.
They must be worried that they could be losing their grip on the European situation and, as a first step, they definitely need a new tool to act as the (Deep State's) German branch manager if only to placate the populace and give it a sense of a "New Beginning".

Thumbs down: The German elites have had it with Merkel

I understand that this commentary has not made it to a TV program, just to the radio and internet. There may be factions within the ARD media that are still trying to keep commentaries and articles of this kind away from the greater mainstream.

Within the commentary you can almost feel the sense of urgency that probably keeps the German and EU handlers up at night.
They must be worried that they could be losing their grip on the European situation and, as a first step, they definitely need a new tool to act as the (Deep State's) German branch manager if only to placate the populace and give it a sense of a "New Beginning".

You know your on to something, when the NYT's say's that she is loved by 64%, and blames Trump for her issues.

By your information Trump is apparently is telling the truth.

Opinion | Trump Is Saving Germany’s Liberals

Larger Pic:
HEIDELBERG, Germany — Last week President Trump tweeted that German voters were beginning to rebel against Chancellor Angela Merkel over her refugee policy. “The people of Germany are turning against their leadership as migration is rocking the already tenuous Berlin coalition,” he wrote. Days later, he tweeted again, asserting — wrongly — that crime in our country was up because of the hundreds of thousands of refugees Germany has admitted over the last few years.

Both of these comments are demonstrably, laughably wrong. And more than that: Mr. Trump’s efforts to insert himself into German politics is having the opposite effect, driving together the parties that make up Ms. Merkel’s fractious center-right alliance, and pushing voters away from the parties on the fringe.

Let’s go tweet by tweet. Chancellor Merkel still has an approval rating of 64 percent; she is by far Germany’s most respected politician. And she’s on an upswing: People here love the idea of her standing up to Mr. Trump — she got a boost after a photo of her towering over him at the G-7 summit went viral.

Barack Obama all but literally passed on the mantle of “leader of the free world” to Ms. Merkel (and not Mr. Trump), and most Germans feel empowered by that new responsibility. A country that, due to its history, feels uncomfortable with being the leader of the free world is coming to understand its role in standing up for liberal democracy in a world turning more and more authoritarian.

In this respect, Mr. Trump’s tweets are clarifying: He and his followers have managed to mobilize more and more institutions and citizens to organize pro-European demonstrations and petitions, many of them demanding that Germany defend the values that underlie the “West.”

About that crime tweet: In fact, crime in Germany is currently at a 26-year low. But right-wing populists are using criminal acts committed by a relatively small number of refugees to create a climate of fear and thus cut off empathy for those in need. They are being assisted by parts of the German media who know that fear sells papers.

The populists and the news media have exploited several high-profile cases in which refugee men have raped and murdered young women. These are tragic stories, and horrific crimes. But in fact the number of murder cases involving young women has dropped from 30 in 2000 to 15 in 2017.

Yet the fear-mongering is creating a positive response. As the anti-immigrant faction picked up on these stories, German feminists rallied, demanding to know why violence against women in Germany gets so little attention unless it’s committed by a migrant. Rather than driving German feminists and refugees apart, a new avenue of conversation between them has opened.

Still, even as Mr. Trump is inadvertently bringing Germans together, there is something that troubles us. Germany has always been strongly pro-American — not always on policy, but in celebrating the sense that America is our most stable trans-Atlantic partner. In the last year, and especially over the last few weeks, we seem to have lost that alliance.

Germans have not always liked what America did in the world, but we deeply admired it for a postwar strategy that helped Germany become what it is today. Most Germans have stories like those my American studies professors would tell us at university. These stories all go back to a moment when they were children and met a G.I., often soon after the war, who introduced them to music they had never listened to before, gave them sweets they had never tried or simply behaved toward them in a way the soldiers of the Nazi regime never had.

Yes, they might be the nostalgic, infantile memories of a postwar child. But they also fit our self-conception. For decades after the war, Germans were democrats-in-training; we had to learn the rule of law and the values of liberalism. Democracy was nothing this country ever fought for. Instead, we learned it from America.

There has always been ambiguity about American leadership — one should not forget George W. Bush and his Axis of Evil — but it always felt safer than turning one’s head toward Russia or China. For the first time Germans cannot be sure of this. We don’t know where the United States is leading the world.

The anti-Trump dynamic is at work at home, too. A few weeks ago Horst Seehofer, the head of the Christian Social Union, hinted that he might pull his party out of Ms. Merkel’s coalition government, where he is the interior minister, unless she agreed to sharp limits on immigration. It was a trumpian move, designed to counter inroads made in the party’s home base of Bavaria by the far-right Alternative for Germany (known by its German initials AfD).

But instead of wrecking the government or forcing Ms. Merkel’s hand, Mr. Seehofer’s crude politics forced the majority of Germans who support Ms. Merkel’s position to ask why the 13 percent of far-right voters behind the AfD seem to set the agenda. And why should the elections in little Bavaria define the future of Europe? Instead of getting what he wanted, Mr. Seehofer has set off a wakeup call for his opponents, and is driving Ms. Merkel to work harder with her European allies.

Most Germans feel Ms. Merkel has it just right: After a too-permissive policy in 2015, she created Germany’s most restrictive immigration laws ever. The fact that even this doesn’t seem to be enough for the far-right angers liberal Germans. And it has set off a soul-searching among the center-right Christian Democrats as well. Is it right for a party rooted in faith to sacrifice empathy for the less fortunate? And it has both sides in a surprising alignment, fighting to preserve the postwar European heritage.

Ms. Merkel and Mr. Seehofer have now agreed on a two-week break from their fight. The German chancellor thus gained time to find allies for a European way out of the crisis; after a meeting Wednesday with French President Emmanuel Macron, she seems well on the way.

The far-right in Europe is happy to have the support of the American president. But for the rest of us — the vast majority of us — Mr. Trump’s endless, angry talk, and the images of children taken from their parents from the American border, is only strengthening the resolve of the German center. It is reminding us how important Europe and European values are, and that someone has to defend them.

Merkel Tops Migration Hard-Liners in Poll on Government Showdown
June 25, 2018, 12:17 PM GMT+2 Video Duration Time 1:46
German Chancellor Angela Merkel topped migration hard-liners in a popularity poll in Bavaria, suggesting she still has room to maneuver in a government rift over border security.

Voters identifying as backers of the Christian Social Union, the Bavarian ruling party that’s set Merkel an end-of-June ultimatum for tightening borders, gave Merkel 61 percent support, compared with 56 percent for state premier Markus Soeder, according to a Forsa poll for broadcaster RTL published Monday. Statewide, Merkel had 43 percent to Soeder’s 38 percent.

The poll gives a measure of support to Merkel in the breakdown between the CSU and her Christian Democratic Union, which threatens to tear apart their long-standing party alliance and is putting her three-month-old coalition government at risk.

“With their ruthless campaign against the chancellor, the CSU leadership isn’t just hurting the union” between the CDU and CSU, Forsa director Manfred Guellner said in the statement. “They’re hurting their own party.”

Read more: How Merkel is gambling on an EU solution to migration

German Interior Minister Horst Seehofer, who heads the CSU, has vowed to use his law-enforcement powers to send back certain asylum seekers at Germany’s borders if Merkel doesn’t reach agreements with European Union partners this month. Merkel rejects the border proposal, setting up a potential rupture that could leave her without a majority in parliament.

Seehofer himself is under pressure from Soeder and other Bavarian leaders, who are trying to outflank the anti-immigration Alternative for Germany party that’s polling about 13 percent in Bavaria ahead of a state election in October.

Yet 75 percent of those polled in Bavaria said that there are other problems “that are just as important or even more important” that migration, according to the June 21-22 Forsa poll of 1,003 people.
Hi all, I am German, too, and I am not the biggest one in networking here (cough) but I will try to do my best. I have quite a background in historical studies, as well as in the history of my local/home region, which is the bavarian-svevian City of Augsburg and surroundings, and in my university time I did a lot of studies in the field of Reformation/Luther, confessionalism, and church history, which is almost logical because Augsburg officially became an early bi-confessional city in the early 16hundreds. I myself am almost 50 and have a son of 17 years.

I have to admit I see things different from what the living force wrote.

First of all it is clear that Merkels loyalty is NOT with the german people. She said that in at least one Interview, where she was asked if, even in knowing that her way she wants things to be would go against the will of the Germans, she would insist on her path, against the will of the people, and she answered YES, of course she would! If you follow her carreer progression it is clear she is a globalist, at least a European and has nothing to do with the german people.

She was the one teaching the Germans that one cannot expect that there will be a bond for what was said before the election to what is done after it.(german: „Man kann sich nicht darauf verlassen, dass das, was vor den Wahlen gesagt wird auch wirklich nach den Wahlen gilt. Und wir müssen damit rechnen dass sich das in verschiedenen Weisen wiederholen kann.“) and that this will turn out to be a pattern for the future, or is likely to be repeated.

Those two things plus of course her several overrulings of the Grundgesetz (GG) where the rules for migration, border control and who is entiteled to political asyl are to be found, (as well as the article for freedom of speech and anti-censorship) formulated quite clearly and understandable.

Those are the things that brought and brings people up against her. I know. We own a little shop and have lots of customers from all social backgrounds. People are not stupid, as long as ideology hasn‘t devoured them.

Living force wrote:
„Most Germans feel Ms. Merkel has it just right: After a too-permissive policy in 2015, she created Germany’s most restrictive immigration laws ever.“

What do you mean by that? Is „too-permissive“ a nice way of saying that she broke the law? Again, read the GG! It is all clearly layed out there.

And what do you mean by „most restrictive immigration laws ever“? Did I miss something? Did she through all Immigrants out? Or close borders? What are you talking about?

I do not want to do any harm to others, nor offend someone on purpose. But it might happen (up to you).

That said, I have annother annotation: You, living force, wrote: „by the far-right Alternative for Germany (known by its German initials AfD).“ If you take the time and compare the political agenda of the AfD with what the CDU/CSU Coalition stood for only ten years ago, you will realize that there is no difference. Remember: Merkel is CDU. For me this is a clear evidence that Merkel moved the whole CDU to the left, just enough to not be conservative any more. And so – in my opinion – the right became the FAR-Right. But there is nothing extremist to the AfD, not even the Verfassungsschutz is interested in them. They are democratically elected and represent almost 16 % of the population in the Bundestag. So what? Even that can be found in the GG: The Bundestag should be a percential representation of the PLURALISTIC Society of Germany. I do not think it is in any way helpful to call them and everyone else who critisizes immigration politics as Nazi or racist. This will rather lead to a climate resembling the one we pondered upon in school when in history class THE 3rd Reich question arose: How could this ever happen? Why did nobody speak up? The left is being creating this situation right now with this exact behaviour.

And I think that the real FAR-RIGHT, which is in myopinion not in the open yet (and nobody will have a word for them, because all Merkel critisizers are already nazis now…), well, they will love this sitiuation, because people will have no other way of opposition/opposing the system than turning to them, when they emerge. This will end in a kind of over-patriotizing of people who normally wouldnt consider themselves as „patriots“.

Btw, The thing that concernes me about the AfD is their zionistic trait, but the left in Germany is so busy with outing them as Nazis they didn‘t even realize that.

I have to admit I was totally blown with Lauras prediction in the „Psychopathic God – Adolf Hitler“ Thread, because I had a similar fear raising concerning Germany. That the left will push way too far in ignoring all the problems Germany has with its migrants (of course not all migrants, one would be stupid to think that; and we know that only a small amount of people who are misbehaving is enough to spoil everything for all.) The left keeps ignoring the fact that the crminal statistics the police published are not representative, one for nor recording all crime (they clearly state that in the preface), neither for presenting the numbers in the right way (in proportion to the immigrants from the criminals country in our country; I mean the percentage they have in the whole population.

An old friend of mine who is a party member for Die Linke is of the opinion that all (ALL!) those dead girls and young women are fake. That only those migrate to Germany who are fleeing Islam and Sharia-Law, that Germans are much more criminal and that freedom of speech should not apply to right-wingers.

That leaves me speechless and I ask myself whether everybody needs an individual case in the family or among friends to wake up.

Just so it happened to another friend of mine. She owns a bar in the center of our city, consideres herself as a lefty – and that was the reason she kept silent for more than two years! A large group of Gambians (10 – 20 guys) „visited“ regularly her bar, aggressively touching girls (guests), arguing with guys, stealing liquor from the shelf, snatching the purse of the service girl, destroying furniture, fighting inside and outside the bar, several times the police came, one time they even had to draw the weapon before the gambian guy layed down his broken bottle… That was the point when she broke her silence

She is now on the brink of closing and nervous breakdown, simply because she couldn‘t do anything. She – as a Lefty – wanted to exclude the whole group- out of desperation. SHITSTORM! Nazi, of course, and racist. Plus, there are several anti-discrimination laws that make you vulnerable to legal prosecution in that case. Btw, Police didn‘t take one of her reports, not ONE! Quote: „Senseless“ „no prospect of persecution i. e. Success“

She rang me up and said: „Now I am a nazi, too, or so it seems. A destroyed nazi because law forbid me to take care of my business. Isn‘t that funny?“

It is exactly that what I fear. That people, normal, sensible and sensitive beings, will be shooed into the (far)right wing because nobody wants to hear about their problems, because the accusers, they are such gooood people who have empathy with everyone, even with their killers so to say. Andthis all is due to our indoctrination with guilt. This is where they think they have us (and they do to a vast extent).

Mod's note: I have increased the size of the characters to help members of this forum to read it more easily.
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Just a note Etezete that Ursus Minor and c.a. were quoting articles, which not necessarily reflect their own opinions as far as i understood.

And thanks for reporting from the ground, most interisting. This sort of insanity is exactly what Laura was talking about I think: the left is lost in ideological Lala-land, and those who realize this, often because they see what's going on in their own lives, are understandably angry and confused and may be pushed to the real far right because there simply is no alternative IF they want someone to solve the problem for them. Geez, without all the tools and knowledge we have here, who can blame them? All this is enough to bring even sane and strong people over the edge...

I wonder if you could help your friends in some way, even if it's just listening to them, reassuring them that they are not insane for seeing reality for what it is and that they don't need to seek comfort in far-right leaders? That it's okay to be a leftist and still call a spate a spate? Just a thought... and thanks again for sharing!
oh, luc, thank you for mentioning it. I originally realized that there were SOME quotes but obviously didn't realize that the sentences I stumbled upon were quotes, too. So sry for my misunderstanding.

My friend with the bar and I are fine, we can talk openly and do so quite often although we have different opinions sometimes. Not so with the other friend mentioned. Conversations are very difficult because he tends to turn ad hominem and lacks of arguments. He is - I am afraid -. lost in his believe system. Says: "And even IF there are some more rape victims... who cares???". So you see it is difficult to talk.
A genuine refugee in Germany meets her former ISIS kidnapper, a refugee from justice

A woman who was kidnapped by ISIS as a teenager in her native Iraq in 2014 and held for three months as a sex slave by the terror group eventually managed to escape and later resettled as a refugee in Germany after the harrowing ordeal.
But two years after her escape, she unexpectedly encountered her ISIS kidnapper while walking the streets of Stuttgart, Germany. The man she identified as Abu Hamam was living in Germany as a free man, and the police did nothing.
She told police and asylum officials about the encounter and although they identified the man from CCTV they said there was nothing they could do because the man was also registered as a refugee, The Times reports.

I was so scared, I could barely talk. I thought that in Germany it doesn't matter what I do. Nobody cares. I thought it's over for me.

'He started speaking in German, asking if I'm Ashwaq or not. I said no, then he started speaking Arabic.

'I continuously replied in German, saying I don't speak Arabic. I pretended to be Turkish, saying I only speak Turkish and German.

'He then said: 'I know that you've lived in Germany since 2015. I know that you live with your mother and your brother.'
'He even told me my own address. In short, he knew about my whole life.'

But she has now fled Germany after the terrifying encounter with the man who had enslaved her.

DAILY MAIL: Yazidi former sex slave...

Other sources: (only a small sample of them mentioned below)

THE TIMES: Yazidi slave girl meets ISIS Captor...

NEWSWEEK: Teenager who escaped ISIS slavery...

RT: Yazidi slave ISIS refugee...

ZERO HEDGE: Woman who escaped ISIS sex slavery...

Bad luck if you're living in Germany trusting the news media to keep you up to date on what's going on around you. I couldn't find a single German-language news outlet that dared to cover that story which must have been disseminated by international news agencies.

Oh, wait... The left-wing fringe newspaper ROTE FAHNE ("Red Flag") (owned by the MARXIST-LENINIST Party of Germany) which operates safely below everybody's radar screens did give it a mention...

ROTE FAHNE: Junge Jesidin flieht aus Deutschland

There is a lock down on many political subjects that make up the reality in Germany today and it's working just as well as it did in former communist East Germany.

So a 19 year old refugee girl has actually fled from Germany back to Iraq in fear of the machinations of an ISIS operative applying for political asylum...

The Germany political class and their minions are fighting tooth and nail to keep such stories from reaching the public.
For those interested in what's going on in Germany, here's some background on the Alternative für Deutschland (AfD), the new right-wing party which got around 12% in the last federal election.

I recently watched a bunch of speeches and debates of AfD deputies in the Bundestag. Very interesting - I found myself agreeing with most of what they say. They are kindred spirits to American conservatives in a sense (think Ben Shapiro, Jonah Goldberg etc.): classically liberal in their economics (free market, small government, no big EU bureaucracy ans do on) and they are, I would say, "reasonably conservative" when it comes to social issues: they fight against the gender insanity, are for traditional family values etc. Yet they are not at all the conservative extremists they are portrayed as in the media - for example, one of their prominent leaders, Alice Weidel, is openly lesbian. In a sense, their values are not so different from what used to be mainstream conservatism in Germany before the Merkel era.

Many of the AfD people at the top are climate change skeptics, saying that even if CO2 affects climate, which we don't really know, it wouldn't make a difference compared to other factors (sun, natural cycles etc.), and even if it did, Germany could never make a difference on a global scale with its massive programs that are just designed to control people and channel money into the pockets of the climate change industry. Spot on. Most also are very Russia-friendly and see through the imperial wars and deceptions in Syria, Ukraine and so on - here, they are pretty close to the pacifist left, but my sense is that many of the AfD people are even closer to the truth than them. As opposed to the pacifist left however, they are in favor of a strong, highly-functional military. All in all, sounds a bit like Putin, right?

Now here's the rub: I think German society is deeply divided about 50/50 between conservatives and liberals, as Haidt defined them, with their different moral tastbuds. The AfD clearly represents the conservatives with their "disgust" and "loyalty" tastebuds. The reason why the AfD has not 50% yet is because of all the demonization in the media, I think, that still works. Judging by the comments on YouTube, I predict that this will change the more people start watching the AfD speeches on YouTube or TV (even mainstream TV must show some of them). They simply speak to the hearts of those 50% conservatives, and they will reach them eventually.

Now, I also watched some AfD rallies, and you can clearly tell that people are indeed disgusted by mainstream liberal-left PC politics: by the erosion of any sexual moral and the family, by the gender insanity, by political correctness, by the fascist imposition of ideological projects such as renewable energy, by the mainstream defending antifa thugs and celebrating violent resistance, by the endless labeling of everyone disagreeing as Nazi and Fascist etc. etc.

Some of these people who are rightfully disgusted are demanding blood, so to speak. They are so enraged that they want to see the leftist-mainstream establishment crushed. And this is dangerous because it can easily be exploited by new leaders. I wouldn't be surprised at all if either an existing AfD leader takes this path for his or her own benefit or a new pathological figure will emerge once it's clear that this is a path to power and glory. Like it is pointed out in Political Ponerology: moral outrage about the pathological regime is understandable, but it's not enough; it's even dangerous. What we need to do in such a situation is take a step back and look at the phenomenon "clinically". Otherwise, we might be tempted to react to pathology with new pathology, instead of doing the opposite: working on ourselves to become better human beings, trying to understand other people, building bridges etc., despite the pathological elites doing the exact opposite.

Here is an interview with one prominent AfD guy who speaks English if you are interested - very smart guy who understands the financial games the EU elites play very well. He is also head of the budget committee in the Bundestag (federal parliament). According to wikipedia, he used to dabble in NWO conspiracy theories, but I can't judge whether this is just smear or there is something to it. Notice the case that the (idiot) interviewer brings up about the German commissioner for integration, a woman of Turkish descent who said that there is no such thing as German culture! This is exactly the kind of thing conservatives (in the Haidt sense) are completely disgusted with and freak out about!

Good summary luc. I think what makes the situation in germany somewhat unique in comparison with most if not all other countries is, that at least in the last couple of years/decades (and I would argue actually argue since Hitlerism started/ended) there was no strong movement/party that actually represented the conservative part of the population.

It seems that is mostly because people were fed the idea very thoroughly that anything that even slightly would represent conservatism is at least in danger to go the Hitler route. Conservatism is very strongly equated with Nazisms in germany which as we know by now is not true (read liberal fasiscm for that).

So in consequence for many many decades there were not really any major parties in germany that could even slightly be compared with conservative parties in other countries. So even the big party that still was at least considered to be somewhat conservative a couple of years ago in germany, which is called CSU ( Christian Social Union) still is very liberal/lefty when you compare it with pretty much any other conservative party in other countries.

So about 50 percent of the german population never (for many many decades, at least since Nazisms started) had any major party that would really represent their conservative thinking/interests in any real way. Then came 9/11 and everything that followed and even the major parties that were considered somewhat conservative, like CSU and the sister party CDU (Christian Democratic Union, which Merkel heads), got even more liberal/lefty in their politics, so that in the end, fueled strongly by the refugee crisis, there really was only strong shades of liberal/lefty thinking/action left in big politics, no matter which big party you looked at.

Then AfD comes along, very suddenly and strong, and promises to really uphold/consider all the conservative values that would be considered in other countries pretty normal and not extreme at all, that germans were denied to have for decades. Then all the mainstream goes crazy about it and screams "Nazis!", even though by now many millions of germans vote for it, so that it has come to a point that there is a real possibility that they pose a very real risk for the established parties. If it goes on like this, they have a good chance to, at least theoretically, come out out on top or second in the next election or the election afterwards.

As was recently pointed out in the german SOTT Radio-Show, what is happening right now here, with the AfD being demonized so strongly and thus the many millions of germans who voted for them, creates a very tense and dangerous atmosphere in germany.
Yes, I agree and I think that this was the plan from the beginning with the refugee crisis to stir the people up and to go at each others throats. And generally speaking their never was a real unification in Germany after the 90s, because unconsciously people are still dividing between east and west, because every statistic still shows east and west. And the most voters of the AfD are from the new German states which gives a lot of fodder for the liberals and even normal people that east Germany is more "brown". Of course there are also many idiots in the east as in the west, but the danger that comes a long with it when generalizations are happening. Maybe and this is just a vague hypothesis in some eastern German states some traditions are more kept and it should not be forgotten that the unemployment rate is highest in the country side.

Even my grandma voted for the alternative last year, because of the refugee crisis and she cannot be called "brown" at all, since her father was observed by the SS with house searchers or checks if everybody was still there or if anything was hidden. He supported war prisoners as good as he could and wasn't allowed to leave town and he hated Hitler.

Anyway, the danger that comes with every party is and even the AfD, that it could also be overtaken by pathological parts.

There also comes this video to mind:

Unfortunately it is not available on YouTube.
I recently watched a bunch of speeches and debates of AfD deputies in the Bundestag. Very interesting - I found myself agreeing with most of what they say.

Just mentioning this publically can get you into hot water in Germany today, that's how bad the situation already is.
It could end your career as a civil servant, it could destroy your small business, it could isolate you socially in certain neighborhoods, there may be repercussions for your children in school: "... but my dad thinks the AfD party is not so bad after all. He told me that he agrees with most of what they say!"

Parents have to watch what they say when their kids are around, a situation reminiscent of that in former communist East Germany.

My personal experience is that people tend to lower their voices when they're about to say something critical about left-wing politics, the "refugee situation" and their fears of being considered "Nazi" or "racist".

This is not 1933 and not 1953 in Stalinist East Germany - this is Germany today.

I think German society is deeply divided about 50/50 between conservatives and liberals.

May I alter the numbers to:

33% living in denial, busy with their mortgages and lifestyles, hoping that some future Chancellor or EU commission will solve all the accumulated problems. They are pacified by the evening TV news telling them all is well.

33% conservatives, pensioners, small business people, genuine "liberals"(= libertarians) and not least most eastern Germans who do not seem to be able to adapt to (western) Maoist and Green Party ideals. (After 40 years of communist rule, they know totalitarianism when they see it)

33% progressives, teachers, sociologists, helper-syndrom professionals, "activists", "aides", university dropouts, internationalists, idealists-without-borders, revolutionary cab drivers, LGBT parade organizers, militant vegetarians.
33% conservatives, pensioners, small business people, genuine "liberals"(= libertarians) and not least most eastern Germans who do not seem to be able to adapt to (western) Maoist and Green Party ideals. (After 40 years of communist rule, they know totalitarianism when they see it)

Yes, that may partly explain why in the east the AfD is stronger. The easterners also witnessed the "shock therapy light" that happened after the reunification, so they are more suspicious of the establishment in general I think.

As for your numbers - okay, but I think we should be careful to keep our emotions in check a bit in this situation. There was one AfD member who wrote in some chat about "Machtergreifung" (seizure of power) - this is what the justified disgust with the situation can lead to, and it's not good. It's the people calling for the guillotines all over again. Plus, it's just another variation of "the next chancellor will fix everything for me".

Let's also remember that on "the other side", there are still people. Many wonderful people in fact. So let's not play the game of the pathologicals. Let's not slaughter the liars, let's be better than them!
Hi all,
today there was an article in my local newspaper about the regional election in Bavaria on sunday, including a portrayal of all candidates and their answers to the political needs of today.

One candidate, party member of Die Linke (Left), Tobias Himpenmacher, said something very revealing: (this is my translation and probably it is bumpy here and there because i had to look up some words. But it is bumpy, too, in german, and the sentences do not make much sense. Whether this is due to redaction or to Himpenmachers lefty-religious world view i cannot tell...)

"The main problem lies in the lack of transparency and elucidation. This void is (now) squatted by extreme right-wingers, who are reluctant to integration and filled by their ideology - what must be seen as an attack on democracy. The dialog with citizens will meet these questions. The work of the media as well as public authorities has to be more transparent to reduce fears and to take the breeding ground for right hate. Integration has to improve. Language courses, education, integration courses and a centralized accommodation for neonazis are nescessary. The majority wants to live in freedom and tolerance."
(bolding from me)


At first I didn't even know what to think of this. Again, in german original it reads also very bumpy, please check, google "Tobias Himpenmacher Die Linke will zentrale Unterbringung für Neonazis / Rechte"

He wants gulags??? And, let me guess, what is "neonazi" is up to him?

The whole statement drips of falsehood, in my opinion. It bypasses reality completely. Integration courses, as well as language courses are vastely steered clear of by those to integrate. Only a small percentage attends more than some weeks, let alone that they mostly wont take part anyway. This is a known fact.

IIt seems to me that the left is seeing that all their "stategy" for integration is not adding up, but before critically having a look on their plan, they see the enemy, the group who somehow made the plan ineffective, maybe simply be naming the faults inbedded.

And now one of those who scream NAZI the loudest want to build and fill concentration camps for right wingers?

I mean, I do not know any nor do know someone who knows someone who knows a real nazi. But I am sure there are some. I mean real old school nazis, thinking about making the world their empire. But I also assume that here in germany there might be around 100 of those? I dont know, it is just a gut guess. So that makes me think: They mean by Nazi everone who doesn't agree with them, so that makes me also someone for such a gulag. Nice. Reminds me of the soviet union...

THEY tell us "Heart instead of Hate" whereby Hate is again only to disagree. And they don't talk. As soon as they make you out a right winger they only insult, offend and libel you.

I have lost almost all my friends over political discussions (or lack thereof). I was never offensive, always delivering facts, had all my references, was talking cautiously, signally that I might be wrong but this and that is my information/source. I never ever heard ONE argument, I only heard: This or that is a right lie, that is not true, that is something completely different. And that is ok for a start, but then you have to prove it - and all lefties failed up to now in my small world here. Maybe I know - knew the wrong peeps. For sure.

And the last sentence - I beg you pardon - what does he want to say here??? Does he even know what "tolerance" means? It means not dying from it, surviving, able to endure torture. Is that something really to seek?

I am tired.
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Language courses, education, integration courses and a centralized accommodation for neonazis are necessary.

Not even the overzealous Green Party has come up with such outlandish stuff up to now.

Why would millions of Germans he considers to be "Neo-Nazis" (because they are opposed to left wing, globalist policies) need language courses, education, integration courses and "centralized accomodation"?

I think that guy Himpenmacher made a gaffe (for whatever reason) and the AfD people will try to raise a stink because of it with the state elections only four days ahead.

All facilities for centralized accomodation in Germany are either occupied by asylum seekers or have to be reserved for epidemics. The leftists probably consider 10 to 15 million Germans to be Neo-Nazis which would require a lot of accomodation compounds and many enforcers that simply do not exist.

The German police is already stretched - not least by austerity and the German Army would be inhibited to meddle in German affairs for legal reasons.
They would have to call in the US Marines of the French Foreign Legion to do the job. ;-)

Honestly - I would be worried if some prominent Green Party or EU officials were demanding camps for Germans.
I am tired.

Feel you, @etezete! Please be safe and try not to get sucked too much into all this craziness. I think it's important to keep some critical distance to all this political hoopla in order to stay sane. Don't forget that there is goodness and beauty as well in people apart from the political circus. Sometimes it's helpful to focus on that, especially if you are talking to people in real life. Talk to them about what they love, about their hobbies and passions, and celebrate your common humanity. And have a walk in nature. Geez, all of this can drive us insane, Lord knows we sometimes need some time away from the news, ideologies and the general media freak show!!
It definitely sounds crazy. And this Himpenmacher is with these ideas a fascist himself, only that he doesn't realize it, like many people that follow (fascist) liberal ideas.

As luc wrote try to stay rational and these are elections days too in Bavaria and some people go to the extreme to stir the pot up to get more votes and some of course really mean it.

Try to stay neutral too and avoid political topics with your friends, also when it is hard when you know it is not true what they are saying.
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