The Strange Order of Things, by Antonio Damasio
- Thread starter Chu
- Start date
First off, great job elucidating this idea in the last 'Truth Perspective.' I finished this book and I'm getting close to finishing 'The Dopaminergic Mind' The latter made me think of the grand programming project of 4D STS. The C's said that when the infrastructure was sufficient they (4D STS) could just move in and take over at that point. So it occurs to me that this hyper dopaminergic mind was, and is part of that infrastructure. The physical infrastructure the result of the 'dopaminergic mind' itself.
So I just came across this: "Hence, reducing dopamine levels in both men and women will require more than just masculinization of women; rather, it will require the restoration of more traditional female values of nurturance and affiliation across society as a whole."
Now, notice how the energy is pushing in the opposite direction, at least in Western Nations. The emancipation of women from more traditional female roles. Dionysius syndrome activation?
Right, and the people who have the desire to be 'spiritual' most often confuse emotionalism with spiritualism. So it seems we have our work cut out for us to separate what has value to us as individuals and as a collective from both sides of the equation. Emotion without knowledge blinds. The Dopaminergic Mind without balance from intrinsic human values blinds. Think atheist/ materialist. OSIT
Studying the machine from all angles, learning everything we can about it, reminds me of Castaneda's "Three Phase Progression" which begins with holding your own against petty tyrants; there seems to be nothing more tyrannical than our own nervous system!
And never before in recorded history have people had the possibilities that we have of learning these things because of science and the exchange and promulgation of information.
We have to keep in mind bad science, too; science that is driven by politics. But I think that if we keep political agendas and trends in mind, we can sift the wheat from the chaff. And again, that is a process of holding your own against petty tyrants. All of this reading and learning is part of becoming aware and "paying close and careful attention to reality, right and left".
I know that, for myself, doing this course of reading/study during my recovery from serious physical injury and disablement, has played a big part in that recovery. And that makes me think that study/learning can have a profound effect on the psyche/psychology which underpins achieving wellness or - Damasio's concept - homeostasis.
And never before in recorded history have people had the possibilities that we have of learning these things because of science and the exchange and promulgation of information.
We have to keep in mind bad science, too; science that is driven by politics. But I think that if we keep political agendas and trends in mind, we can sift the wheat from the chaff. And again, that is a process of holding your own against petty tyrants. All of this reading and learning is part of becoming aware and "paying close and careful attention to reality, right and left".
I know that, for myself, doing this course of reading/study during my recovery from serious physical injury and disablement, has played a big part in that recovery. And that makes me think that study/learning can have a profound effect on the psyche/psychology which underpins achieving wellness or - Damasio's concept - homeostasis.
I think this is VERY true and precious advice! Homeostasis understood in Damasio's way is not just about balance, but also expansion and prosperity. Well, all this learning can have precisely that effect. When "stuck" in our own little problems, we can easily forget that there are many other factors involved, and lots of learn and do still.
At least for me, this year so far has been very important in terms of expanding horizons that way. It's as if little by little, all this reading was helping me have more answers or ideas, build a few more connections, and even "dare" explore more, in different fields, something I used to be quite bad at. What helps also is to find ways in which to make the information acquired turn into applied knowledge. Sometimes the simple fact of sharing it here provides an answer for someone else. Sometimes it can be small changes in perception or behavior, but they can make a huge difference in terms of "homeostasis". Not to mention the "happy hormones" that come from learning something new every day and trying to regain the curiosity of a child, and sharing, which in themselves can be very healing. OSIT.
JGeropoulas
The Living Force
Chu thanks for this sample of Damasio's book. And thanks to everyone else for their excerpts and insights. I'm in the middle of Evolution 2.0, which is so fascinating, not only in learning about basic genetics, but especially reconsidering the process of evolution as presented. This Damasio book seems like the perfect complement and will definitely be my next one to read.
I found an interesting article which documents various emotional "heat maps" generated by many volunteers who would draw where in their own bodies they would feel particular emotions:
_Scientists Have Mapped Where People Feel Emotions in Their Bodies
Scientists pooled this data to find generalizations and connections between different emotions in terms of how similar they were in terms of their heat map. I shared this in this thread because I thought it drove home the idea of emotions being a manifestation of bodily homeostasis, and on a continuum of other visceral sensations and responses.
Here are the heat maps themselves:
_Scientists Have Mapped Where People Feel Emotions in Their Bodies
Scientists pooled this data to find generalizations and connections between different emotions in terms of how similar they were in terms of their heat map. I shared this in this thread because I thought it drove home the idea of emotions being a manifestation of bodily homeostasis, and on a continuum of other visceral sensations and responses.
Here are the heat maps themselves:
I finished the book a few weeks ago and have been rolling some thoughts around my brain. Thank you to everyone that has posted their thoughts in this thread. I’d say the book has given me a new perspective on emotions, the body and the mind-body interaction in general. I guess it could be describing in detail a component of the ‘elephant’ that Haidt has described (ie the elephant and the rider) and in general great information to consider in terms of what a person is dealing with when it comes to working on their machine. As Laura mentioned, it is pretty amazing what is available to the average person to learn from and consider nowadays and I really appreciate that we are given the ‘golden nuggets.’
I had also highlighted for consideration the below quotes that Chu posted when reading the book, because they had me thinking about the wider application of the subject of homeostasis, such as a universal law or component of reality. My thoughts below after the quotes from Chu and an additional quote:
In terms of homeostasis being about enduring and prevailing, on the macroscale of things, maybe at the ‘universal’ level, the recent and past comments or allusion by the C’s that the earth benefits from periodic cleansing comes to mind. It can seem to be that humanity is a type of thermostat and transceiver in terms of homeostasis and allowing the ability for life to endure and prevail and a check against things becoming so lopsided that the earth and humanity are completely destroyed or corrupted totally by man, or rather psychopaths, and 4D STS. It is like the pendulum can only swing so far before the cosmic process (law?) of homeostasis relating to the viability of life and the ability for creation to advance pulls it back into balance or better yet activates processes that ensures life and creation in general won’t be totally subverted or abridged. Maybe some of it is destroyed, but the underlying system of creation of reality is maintained. And this also ties into what the C’s again have referred to on multiple occasions and the latest session:
So this aligns with what has been written about in the books ‘Comets and the Horns of Moses’ and ‘Earth Changes and the Human-Cosmic Connection.’ That humanities negative experiences and the cosmic connection can bring about or is related to disaster. And the mechanism of homeostasis as described by Damasio explains maybe a part of how it operates and why it operates this way.
This also got me to thinking about the balance between STO and STS in the universe. If I remember right the C’s in the past have said that it is 50% each if the whole universe or reality is taken into account. My thought is that this balance is not a law of reality, but inherent in a system of reality for learning lessons and the sustainability of reality to ensure this. If reality is to ensure the learning of lessons can endure and prevail, then it would seem to me to encompass a mechanism for ensuring that things can endure and prevail, such as via homeostasis. That the pendulum can swing one way in one part of reality, but in another area it is swinging the other way to ensure the viability of the system of reality for learning lessons. And Damasio’s explanation of homeostasis for humans, cultures etc could be scaled up to all of reality.
It is like every human or every being of creation is like a cell in the universal body feeding input into the universal information system via their consciousness and their actions in a feedback loop to maintain universal homeostasis. From DNA being a ‘receiver’ of the information system (as talked about in a previous C’s session), to beings being connected to 7th Density via the sexual center (see quote below), and to a human having the ability to develop themselves to a point where they are connected to their higher centers. And with all of these connections choices and actions are taken in life and existence to learn and grow down a certain path of existence (ie STO and STS). And these actions throughout all of creation taken with varied levels of consciousness keeps reality viable and dynamic for learning lessons as all is fed into the universal information system and then fed back or connected in some way into each individual being. All of these connections and feedback leads to a system of homeostasis where life and learning will endure and prevail.
Another quote from the book:
The quote had me thinking about the Wave, as the C’s describe the experiencing of it as “hyperkinetic sensate” and homeostasis.
As Damasio has related homeostasis to the human body it is connected to feelings and emotions and the central nervous system. If the Wave is some kind of increase in ‘free energy’ or an influx of information that a person and their mind and body systems have to deal with and experience as a feeling and/or emotion via hyperkinetic sensate, then it would seem a person properly prepared with the emotional systems ‘cleaned’ would bump up to the next level (4D) of steady state as Damasio describes in relation to homeostasis above.
I had also highlighted for consideration the below quotes that Chu posted when reading the book, because they had me thinking about the wider application of the subject of homeostasis, such as a universal law or component of reality. My thoughts below after the quotes from Chu and an additional quote:
In terms of homeostasis being about enduring and prevailing, on the macroscale of things, maybe at the ‘universal’ level, the recent and past comments or allusion by the C’s that the earth benefits from periodic cleansing comes to mind. It can seem to be that humanity is a type of thermostat and transceiver in terms of homeostasis and allowing the ability for life to endure and prevail and a check against things becoming so lopsided that the earth and humanity are completely destroyed or corrupted totally by man, or rather psychopaths, and 4D STS. It is like the pendulum can only swing so far before the cosmic process (law?) of homeostasis relating to the viability of life and the ability for creation to advance pulls it back into balance or better yet activates processes that ensures life and creation in general won’t be totally subverted or abridged. Maybe some of it is destroyed, but the underlying system of creation of reality is maintained. And this also ties into what the C’s again have referred to on multiple occasions and the latest session:
So this aligns with what has been written about in the books ‘Comets and the Horns of Moses’ and ‘Earth Changes and the Human-Cosmic Connection.’ That humanities negative experiences and the cosmic connection can bring about or is related to disaster. And the mechanism of homeostasis as described by Damasio explains maybe a part of how it operates and why it operates this way.
This also got me to thinking about the balance between STO and STS in the universe. If I remember right the C’s in the past have said that it is 50% each if the whole universe or reality is taken into account. My thought is that this balance is not a law of reality, but inherent in a system of reality for learning lessons and the sustainability of reality to ensure this. If reality is to ensure the learning of lessons can endure and prevail, then it would seem to me to encompass a mechanism for ensuring that things can endure and prevail, such as via homeostasis. That the pendulum can swing one way in one part of reality, but in another area it is swinging the other way to ensure the viability of the system of reality for learning lessons. And Damasio’s explanation of homeostasis for humans, cultures etc could be scaled up to all of reality.
It is like every human or every being of creation is like a cell in the universal body feeding input into the universal information system via their consciousness and their actions in a feedback loop to maintain universal homeostasis. From DNA being a ‘receiver’ of the information system (as talked about in a previous C’s session), to beings being connected to 7th Density via the sexual center (see quote below), and to a human having the ability to develop themselves to a point where they are connected to their higher centers. And with all of these connections choices and actions are taken in life and existence to learn and grow down a certain path of existence (ie STO and STS). And these actions throughout all of creation taken with varied levels of consciousness keeps reality viable and dynamic for learning lessons as all is fed into the universal information system and then fed back or connected in some way into each individual being. All of these connections and feedback leads to a system of homeostasis where life and learning will endure and prevail.
Another quote from the book:
The quote had me thinking about the Wave, as the C’s describe the experiencing of it as “hyperkinetic sensate” and homeostasis.
As Damasio has related homeostasis to the human body it is connected to feelings and emotions and the central nervous system. If the Wave is some kind of increase in ‘free energy’ or an influx of information that a person and their mind and body systems have to deal with and experience as a feeling and/or emotion via hyperkinetic sensate, then it would seem a person properly prepared with the emotional systems ‘cleaned’ would bump up to the next level (4D) of steady state as Damasio describes in relation to homeostasis above.
That's pretty deep diving, Mike, for sure! And very interesting insights. Yes, I think "as above, so below" applies, and the physiological systems we can examine may tell us a lot about the hyperdimensional and higher density systems we cannot.
I was thinking about Mike's post as well. Damasio's concept of homeostasis reminded me of Castaneda's indescribable force. There seems to be a driving force akin to instinct that compels all living things forward to seek out an optimized state of existence in order to propel themselves into the future. This seems to me operational below the level of awareness in the lower life forms that eventually reach the complexity to become self aware through evolution. Human beings have the freedom of choice such awareness gives them to make choices that go against achieving an optimal state of health, and they often do. With this added element of reasoned choices, homeostasis must be achieved at a whole other level. Now things get really interesting as individuals must navigate a world of lies and deceptions while attempting to reach an optimal state of existence. They become anchor points for forces and influences beyond their comprehension.
I was looking for the relevant quotes from Castaneda on the indescribable force but came across this instead:
"You must act like a warrior. One learns to act like a warrior by acting, not by talking. A warrior has only his will and his patience and with them he builds anything he wants. You have no more time for retreats or for regrets. You only have time to live like a warrior and work for patience and will . Will is something very special. It happens mysteriously. There is no real way of telling how one uses it, except that the results of using the will are astounding. Perhaps the first thing that one should do is to know that one can develop the will. A warrior knows that and proceeds to wait for it. A warrior knows that he is waiting and knows what he is waiting for. It is very difficult, if not impossible, for the average man to know what he is waiting for. A warrior, however, has no problems; he knows that he is waiting for his will. Will is something very clear and powerful which can direct our acts. Will is something a man uses, for instance, to win a battle which he, by all calculations, should lose. It is not what we call courage. Courage is something else. Men of courage are dependable men, noble men perennially surrounded by people who flock around them and admire them; yet very few men of courage have will . Usually they are fearless men who are given to performing daring common-sense acts; most of the time a courageous man is also fearsome and feared. Will , on the other hand, has to do with astonishing feats that defy our common sense. You may say that it is a kind of control. Will is not what one calls “will power.” Denying oneself certain things with “will power,” is an indulgence and I don’t recommend anything of the kind. The indulgence of denying is by far the worst; it forces us to believe we are doing great things, when in effect we are only fixed within ourselves. Will is a power. And since it is a power it has to be controlled and tuned and that takes time. When I was your age I was as impulsive as you. Yet I have changed. Our will operates in spite of our indulgence. For example your will is already opening your gap, little by little. There is a gap in us; like the soft spot on the head of a child which closes with age, this gap opens as one develops one’s will . It’s an opening. It allows a space for the will to shoot out, like an arrow. What a sorcerer calls will is a power within ourselves. It is not a thought, or an object, or a wish. An act of “will power” is not will because such an act needs thinking and wishing. Will is what can make you succeed when your thoughts tell you that you’re defeated. Will is a force which is the true link between men and the world. The world is whatever we perceive, in any manner we may choose to perceive. Perceiving the world entails a process of apprehending whatever presents itself to us. This particular perceiving is done with our senses and with our will . Will is a relation between ourselves and the perceived world. What the average man calls will is character and strong disposition. What a sorcerer calls will is a force that comes from within and attaches itself to the world out there. One can perceive the world with the senses as well as with the will. An average man can “grab” the things of the world only with his hands, or his senses, but a sorcerer can grab them also with his will . I cannot really describe how it is done, but you yourself, for instance, cannot describe to me how you hear. It happens that I am also capable of hearing, so we can talk about what we hear, but not about how we hear. A sorcerer uses his will to perceive the world. That perceiving, however, is not like hearing. When we look at the world or when we hear it, we have the impression that it is out there and that it is real. When we perceive the world with our will we know that the world is not as “out there” or as “real” as we think. Will is a force, a power. Seeing is not a force, but rather a way of getting through things. A sorcerer may have a very strong will and yet he may not see ; which means that only a man of knowledge perceives the world with his senses and with his will and also with his seeing. Now you know you are waiting for your will . You still don’t know what it is, or how it could happen to you. So watch carefully everything you do. The very thing that could help you develop your will is amidst all the little things you do."
I was looking for the relevant quotes from Castaneda on the indescribable force but came across this instead:
"You must act like a warrior. One learns to act like a warrior by acting, not by talking. A warrior has only his will and his patience and with them he builds anything he wants. You have no more time for retreats or for regrets. You only have time to live like a warrior and work for patience and will . Will is something very special. It happens mysteriously. There is no real way of telling how one uses it, except that the results of using the will are astounding. Perhaps the first thing that one should do is to know that one can develop the will. A warrior knows that and proceeds to wait for it. A warrior knows that he is waiting and knows what he is waiting for. It is very difficult, if not impossible, for the average man to know what he is waiting for. A warrior, however, has no problems; he knows that he is waiting for his will. Will is something very clear and powerful which can direct our acts. Will is something a man uses, for instance, to win a battle which he, by all calculations, should lose. It is not what we call courage. Courage is something else. Men of courage are dependable men, noble men perennially surrounded by people who flock around them and admire them; yet very few men of courage have will . Usually they are fearless men who are given to performing daring common-sense acts; most of the time a courageous man is also fearsome and feared. Will , on the other hand, has to do with astonishing feats that defy our common sense. You may say that it is a kind of control. Will is not what one calls “will power.” Denying oneself certain things with “will power,” is an indulgence and I don’t recommend anything of the kind. The indulgence of denying is by far the worst; it forces us to believe we are doing great things, when in effect we are only fixed within ourselves. Will is a power. And since it is a power it has to be controlled and tuned and that takes time. When I was your age I was as impulsive as you. Yet I have changed. Our will operates in spite of our indulgence. For example your will is already opening your gap, little by little. There is a gap in us; like the soft spot on the head of a child which closes with age, this gap opens as one develops one’s will . It’s an opening. It allows a space for the will to shoot out, like an arrow. What a sorcerer calls will is a power within ourselves. It is not a thought, or an object, or a wish. An act of “will power” is not will because such an act needs thinking and wishing. Will is what can make you succeed when your thoughts tell you that you’re defeated. Will is a force which is the true link between men and the world. The world is whatever we perceive, in any manner we may choose to perceive. Perceiving the world entails a process of apprehending whatever presents itself to us. This particular perceiving is done with our senses and with our will . Will is a relation between ourselves and the perceived world. What the average man calls will is character and strong disposition. What a sorcerer calls will is a force that comes from within and attaches itself to the world out there. One can perceive the world with the senses as well as with the will. An average man can “grab” the things of the world only with his hands, or his senses, but a sorcerer can grab them also with his will . I cannot really describe how it is done, but you yourself, for instance, cannot describe to me how you hear. It happens that I am also capable of hearing, so we can talk about what we hear, but not about how we hear. A sorcerer uses his will to perceive the world. That perceiving, however, is not like hearing. When we look at the world or when we hear it, we have the impression that it is out there and that it is real. When we perceive the world with our will we know that the world is not as “out there” or as “real” as we think. Will is a force, a power. Seeing is not a force, but rather a way of getting through things. A sorcerer may have a very strong will and yet he may not see ; which means that only a man of knowledge perceives the world with his senses and with his will and also with his seeing. Now you know you are waiting for your will . You still don’t know what it is, or how it could happen to you. So watch carefully everything you do. The very thing that could help you develop your will is amidst all the little things you do."
