The subject of stupidity (my own)

C

chezza

The Force is Strong With This One
Hello all.

Something that's been on my mind recently is what someone said to me during a work training course:

"Dave, you're a Tim nice but dim. You haven't got a bad bone in your body, you're just a bit thick."

I didn't get mad with this person -despite him being an ex marine. Instead I did what people on this board recommend which is to do a little reality testing.

There is no doubt that as human beings, we are all prone to doing stupid things in our lives from time to time. See the million plus videos on youtube of instances of stupidity being documented for the world to see. Yet at the same time, we all believe we are oh so intelligent.

Having said this, I am concluding that what he told me is correct. I am a bit thick. It's useful that someone has finally told me this (-hey its networking after all.) But I am wondering how he came to see this so clearly after just a couple of weeks of us knowing each other. Is it really that obvious?!

Any ideas from those who are less thick as to what I can do to be less dim, less thick - so I can sharpen myself up or something?

Has anyone else had similar experiences of things being so obvious to others but not to yourself and finding out the hard way?

Hopefully this makes sense, but cut me some slack if It ain't. :rolleyes:
 
First thing of all that struck me as a sign of your genuine wisdom here :) is the lack of egotistical reaction.
The standard reaction would be getting offended and retorting to such a claim in a similiar, or rather even more offensive tone.
Then in effect of that reaction such a claim would be ridiculed, brushed away, and a person who made it put on the black list. Ant that would be that.

You haven't done these things, they made you think instead.

chezza said:
You haven't got a bad bone in your body
Click to expand...

-This could also be a reason, especially being for an ex-marine, to consider that you're stupid, because you might have a difficulty recognizing broadly understood negativity around you. Sort of as not being suspicious of things enough. Trusting too easily, as is often the case when good-hearted people struggle to see through other people's deception/irony because they wouldn't consider someone else would do/say something that they would never.

So initially, just to me, it sounds like you are just a quite an open hearted person, and this alone could lead someone to think that this is equivalent of being thick, because who in the right mind is nice and open in this evil world? A marine would know it's not always a good idea.

Another thing is that if you yourself feel that you could be smarter, more informed, clever, knowledgeable, then all there is to do, is learn. The motto "Knowledge Protects" is a theme of this house in which the Knowledge is coming through the roof! That is reading, searching, asking and getting educated about the world in the broadest sense possible.

I think the base assumption of everybody who truly wants to learn should be that they are stupid; the esoteric Fourth Way, explored by the Cassiopaea/QFG group is called The Way of The Fool. In other words, to learn anything, one must first assume that one IS a fool. However, still knowing one's worth, and having respect to oneself: that is not in an all self-condescending manner because that, on the other hand, will hamper one's belief in any form of evolvement.

So in this way, we're all thick - we're all Fools. And without recognizing this state of 'being', there is no chance to progress.
Thus, IMHO, you have recognized the first and foremost motivation to learn. Which as seen from your previous posts you're doing, and the only advisable thing that comes to my (even younger than yours:) ) mind, is to simply keep on doing it, there's enough material out there to literally never stop, as there is no end to gaining and applying knowledge.

***
Also, there recently were some articles on sott.net, about how incompetent people are the last to recognize their own shortcomings and weaknesses, resulting in their lousiness. And the most competent ones, are the most aware of their incompetence.

found two of them:
http://www.sott.net/article/246561-Why-The-Incompetent-Dont-Know-They-re-Incompetent

http://www.sott.net/article/144690-Incompetent-People-Really-Have-No-Clue-Studies-Find

So after all, I bet it isn't that bad at all!

just my 2 cents..


/edit: There must also be something about you that made this ex-marine feel he can just say it to you and it won't result in a pointless quarrel. I would suppose it is the openness.

/edit2: Forgot to mention completely; Also had some experiences with finding out the hard way about my own stupidity, that was after all the lack of awareness of the incompetence that drove me through most of my relationship with people around me. It was even a harder way, dare I say, because it wasn't an honest moment with someone I knew (however there was this also), but it gradually came to me, from assembling bits and pieces of things some people said to me or around me, or also behind my back over the years that I got to know later or heard them, that in the end gathered up in this not-so-nice image of me that was very, very different to the one I held about myself. And the initial reactions were rather very egotistical. It took much time to actually reflect upon these things, my own incompetence, thickness, with less self-importance and not explaining it away to myself, and others with self-pity stories and such. And even more time then was needed to employ these reflections in life, which is a work in progress.
 
Hi cheeza,

Can you give any examples of when your "thickness" shone through? Are you talking book knowledge, or common sense type stuff? You're not so stupid if you have the wisdom to accept criticism, take it on board and honestly examine it.

The ex-marines observation came after a work training. Did it take you longer than others to grasp the content? If you find you have difficulty grok-ing things you may want to examine your learning style. Some people are better visual learners, auditory learners, or better learning through experience and hands-on practice.
 
chezza said:
But I am wondering how he came to see this so clearly after just a couple of weeks of us knowing each other. Is it really that obvious?!
Click to expand...

Is it possible for you to contact this person and ask him if he could give you a bit more feedback as to how he came to his conclusion and if he had any advice for you? If so, this may be helpful in gaining more information in order to discern whether his observations were objective or subjective. Basically approach him in a way that shows genuine interest in finding out more about yourself.

Another thing you might want to do is to ask those around you who've known you for some time (friends, family, etc) what their genuine thoughts are about you. This can also be a way to measure if what he said has some validity to it.

From there, you may have a clearer idea of what, if anything, there is that you specifically need to focus on. Just some thoughts.
 
In this instance being thick may be a matter of subjective interpretation. You may want to ask yourself if this is a common theme throughout your life? Bringing this matter up in the forum shows me that you may not be as "thick" as this person may think you are. This, imo, is the very place to get an honest, objective answer as to how "thick" you may be.
 
[quote author= chezza]
Any ideas from those who are less thick as to what I can do to be less dim, less thick - so I can sharpen myself up or something? [/quote]

The best way I've found to "sharpen up" is to give the body what it needs for optimal health and this includes our brains! Many members of this forum have spent years researching and experimenting with various diets to promote health, reverse disease processes, and eliminate aches and pains. A good place to start is the important threads in the Diet and Health Section, as well as the Ketogenic Diet thread.

What is your diet currently like chezza? We really are what we eat, and in today's world, many foods are downright toxic (loaded with sugar, soy, genetically modified foods, unstable vegetable oils, & gluten, which is non-digestible for humans) not to mention fluoridated water, which lowers IQ and calcifies the pineal gland. So diet is probably the first thing to address to eliminate brain inflammation and sharpen up. :)
 
quote :

Quote from: chezza

Any ideas from those who are less thick as to what I can do to be less dim, less thick - so I can sharpen myself up or something?
Click to expand...

quote from ex-marine:

"Dave, you're nice but dim. You haven't got a bad bone in your body, you're just a bit thick."
Click to expand...

Are you a very trusting kind of person? That's what I'm picking upor here - that maybe you don't understand when people are not being nice to you or don't have your best interests at heart.

Perhaps you could ask questions when you find yourself in situations like the one you described with the ex-marine. You might try something like, "What do you mean by that?" or what makes you think that I'm "dim?"

I take the ex-marines' words as protective. to me it seems that he sees you as a nice guy, and perhaps he doesn't want you to get hurt.

Maybe you can "sharpen yourself up" by observing how people interact with one another. When you observe people, sometimes you can tell when people are lying or uncomfortable, when they don't mean well and when they don't You could observe eye contact or the lack of it, tone of voice, body language, tension or relaxation in the body.

Of course I could be completely off base here, but the above is what occurs to me.
 
Hi Chezza,

Have you read Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout? Being thick headed may be a reference to dissociation and your ability to pay attention. Dr. Stout gives a great overview on what dissociation is and some tips on how to deal with it.

We also have a thread on the forum about positive dissociation which discusses it as well.

We all dissociate at one time or another, some more than others. It's a fairly normal function of our minds.
Happy Reading :)
 
Some good feedback and possibly very valid considerations in the previous posts. Is he talking about your IQ or 'street smarts'? I agree he could be thinking you are too trusting but there's not enough information yet. I'm not completely sure your friend has your best interests in mind however. Maybe he does... maybe asking him for clarification would be useful... but carefully evaluate any 'corrective action' he recommends.
 
chezza said:
Has anyone else had similar experiences of things being so obvious to others but not to yourself and finding out the hard way?
Click to expand...

Since others have given you lots of good advice on the "thick" part of your post, I'd like to address the above. :)

One of the things that is discussed on this forum is that we don't really know ourselves. We have built a "narrative" of who we are and it is most usually way off of who we truly are. (Reading Strangers to Ourselves and Thinking Fast and Slow will show how true this is.) The only way we can really see ourselves is through other people - even perfect strangers. They mirror to us what they see. Some can, of course, be wrong, but the majority of the time, they are right.

This network is one such source of seeing who we really are, at times, by people pointing out certain things to us. I've experienced people who hardly know me telling me much of who they see by what their reactions are, or what they say. We just have to pay attention and get out of our own way, as you have, to see ourselves as we are seen by others.

Of course, we need to look at what was said, or shown, to us critically to make sure that it was an observation by someone and not someone just trying to be hurtful.

I do agree that if you see that person again, to tell him that you would really like to understand what he was referring to when he said that to you so that you can start working on not being so "dim" or "thick". If he sees people taking advantage of you, or something similar, that would be a good thing to know. ;)
 
There's not much information to go on, but I just wanted to bring up the possibility that he could have also been seeing what your boundries are and was behaving in a predatorial way. He may have been talking about 'street smarts' as another mentioned, but if it's ambiguous that might lean towards it being predatory by masking what he was really talking about. He'd be feeding on you while saying you weren't aware of it. If this might be the case you may want to observe his behavior with others and see if he puts others down. If this could be the case, I wouldn't open myself up to him for more fedback, but it could be useful to approach others you do trust who know both him and you to see what they think.
 
ametist said:
First thing of all that struck me as a sign of your genuine wisdom here :) is the lack of egotistical reaction.
The standard reaction would be getting offended and retorting to such a claim in a similiar, or rather even more offensive tone.
Then in effect of that reaction such a claim would be ridiculed, brushed away, and a person who made it put on the black list. Ant that would be that.

You haven't done these things, they made you think instead.
Click to expand...

Very well put, ametist, I couldn't agree more!
 
Hey chezza, you have received some great replies from the others. From your post it's hard to discern whether your reference to 'thick' is with regards to intellect, or naïveté (sometimes called street smarts). Clarifying what your acquaintance meant will help you learn how he perceives you, and you can take it from there. The advice about diet is spot on too- depending on what you are eating it can really affect your capacity to think. I really enjoyed reading this post here about Atreides and The List, which details the how the diet as advocated by the forum came about.
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone it has been most useful :)

To answer some of the questions people have posted in reply:

(1) I don't have a problem with marines per se. What I meant by "despite him being a marine" was if I began to argue with him or become pugnacious I would have definitely come off second best (or perhaps ended up dead in a suitcase!) Plus, from my perspective I quite liked the guy (naïveté?) -it was interesting on hearing his views on various things, because in my circle of family/friends there is no one from the forces at all and they don't have his expertise/experiences. We can all learn something from anyone in my book.

Another thing he said was the forces look for strengths in people and then exploit them. One of his strengths was a "propensity for violence." I really didn't really want to piss this guy off!

(2) I'm not sure I will be seeing this guy again any time soon because he lives/works up north and I live/work down south (it was a course for new starters from all round England.) So clarification may not be possible unless we meet again -possibly on any follow up courses should they come up.

(3) My diet has been pretty bad of late admittedly, this is definitely a good avenue to go down, I am keen to get back into a low carb diet again but that means not impulsively bingeing on sugary snacks. Nyaaaaa! :scared:

(4) People have astutely asked whether I think I am thick in regards to intellect or "street smarts". I think where my deficiencies lie are in the "street smarts" department. Someone mentioned awareness, which is what I think street smarts are built on and mine isn't all that great. Something else for me to work on. Suggestions most welcome!

(5) I have read myth of sanity, but it has been a while and will be worth re-reading on disassociation. Thank you for that suggestion.

Again thanks for everyone's input.
 
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