The WRONG WAY to attempt the Paleo Diet

nicklebleu

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I have been thinking about this thread for a while.

I often get asked 1) what have you done to loose this much weight and look so healthy, or 2) why are you on such a crazy diet?

The answers to those two questions are not easily explained in a short conversation, as there are a lot of basic concepts that need to be explained and disinformation that needs to be dispelled too. So far my answer has been: It's a mixture of three things 1) ketogenic diet, 2) IF and 3) excentric resistance training. And I wasn't even touching on mitochondrial dysfunction. This of course produces mostly blank looks, so my next answer generally is: Read up on it, if you are interested (generally I recommend PBPM as starter and tell them to check back in, if they want more info - which doesn't happen very often).

Let's face it, most people won't put the effort in to read books about diet. They want the quick fix, preferably a drug that they can pop. But still I wonder if there was not another way - a recipe - that could be given to quick-start people that are somewhat interested. Kind of a general concept that they can work with. Because in the end, the more people end up on this particular diet, the better. This is not meant to violate free will - it is just to cater for those interested, but in the throes of everyday life, unable to read up on threads and books.

So I have jotted down some thoughts about said concept and would like to hear what you guys think about that. Remember, it is not about the nitty-gritty of how to do it, just the concept.

Here goes:

----------

1. Eliminate gluten completely. Do that for at least 6 weeks before proceeding.

2. Eliminate all dairy completely (except butter and ghee). Do this for at least 6 weeks before proceeding.

3. Eliminate all alcohol, caffeine, sugar and processed food (anything that comes packaged).

4. Go on an elimination diet for three weeks, eliminating everything except meat and non-starchy, green-leafed vegetables. Slowly reintroduce different foods and notice effects on your body and mind: Butter, ghee, eggs, different types of meat, fat, some nuts, some berries, some fruit. Once all this has been sorted out and you know what you tolerate and what you don't, proceed.

5. Start the excentric resistance exercise.

6. Transition into full ketosis: Fast for a weekend and at the same time introduce bone broth 2-3 times a day as basic staple. Limit protein intake to about 1 g/kg lean weight, preferrably in 2-3 meals. Add some days of IF to the mix (no longer than 24 h) if you want to loose weight.

7. Redluce carbs slowly towards zero. Once on zero carbs stay there for at least 6-8 weeks. This transition will likely be uncomfortable and will tax your resolve. Just persist.

8. Stay there as long as you want - best is to make this your permanent diet as you will reap many benefits - both physically as well as emotionally - on this diet.

----------

That's basically a rough outline of what we have found out so far. I would be greatful for everyone's input. Feel free to change things around or add to it.

The idea is to work out a concept that gives a timeline and an idea of what's involved.

ADDED: Maybe this would be worth its own thread - Mods feel free to move this post.
 

Mrs. Peel

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
nicklebleu said:
I have been thinking about this thread for a while.
Here goes:

----------

1. Eliminate gluten completely. Do that for at least 6 weeks before proceeding.

2. Eliminate all dairy completely (except butter and ghee). Do this for at least 6 weeks before proceeding.

3. Eliminate all alcohol, caffeine, sugar and processed food (anything that comes packaged).

4. Go on an elimination diet for three weeks, eliminating everything except meat and non-starchy, green-leafed vegetables. Slowly reintroduce different foods and notice effects on your body and mind: Butter, ghee, eggs, different types of meat, fat, some nuts, some berries, some fruit. Once all this has been sorted out and you know what you tolerate and what you don't, proceed.

5. Start the excentric resistance exercise.

6. Transition into full ketosis: Fast for a weekend and at the same time introduce bone broth 2-3 times a day as basic staple. Limit protein intake to about 1 g/kg lean weight, preferrably in 2-3 meals. Add some days of IF to the mix (no longer than 24 h) if you want to loose weight.

7. Redluce carbs slowly towards zero. Once on zero carbs stay there for at least 6-8 weeks. This transition will likely be uncomfortable and will tax your resolve. Just persist.

8. Stay there as long as you want - best is to make this your permanent diet as you will reap many benefits - both physically as well as emotionally - on this diet.
Laura quoted a "quickie version" of how to do the diet similar to this somewhere, probablyly in the LWB thread...
 

Gawan

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Mrs. Peel said:
nicklebleu said:
I have been thinking about this thread for a while.
Here goes:

----------

1. Eliminate gluten completely. Do that for at least 6 weeks before proceeding.

2. Eliminate all dairy completely (except butter and ghee). Do this for at least 6 weeks before proceeding.

3. Eliminate all alcohol, caffeine, sugar and processed food (anything that comes packaged).

4. Go on an elimination diet for three weeks, eliminating everything except meat and non-starchy, green-leafed vegetables. Slowly reintroduce different foods and notice effects on your body and mind: Butter, ghee, eggs, different types of meat, fat, some nuts, some berries, some fruit. Once all this has been sorted out and you know what you tolerate and what you don't, proceed.

5. Start the excentric resistance exercise.

6. Transition into full ketosis: Fast for a weekend and at the same time introduce bone broth 2-3 times a day as basic staple. Limit protein intake to about 1 g/kg lean weight, preferrably in 2-3 meals. Add some days of IF to the mix (no longer than 24 h) if you want to loose weight.

7. Redluce carbs slowly towards zero. Once on zero carbs stay there for at least 6-8 weeks. This transition will likely be uncomfortable and will tax your resolve. Just persist.

8. Stay there as long as you want - best is to make this your permanent diet as you will reap many benefits - both physically as well as emotionally - on this diet.
Laura quoted a "quickie version" of how to do the diet similar to this somewhere, probablyly in the LWB thread...
It took a while, but I remembered that there was something red in it ;)

Laura said:
Mariama said:
I am not sure what to do next, he is clearly not his usual self. Normally, he is quite easy-going.
Thanks for reading.
If you have read the whole thread here, you would have read about numerous people going through this because of changing too much too fast. Yes, it can be done if you want to get on with it rapidly, but you have to know how to compensate.

Trying to change too much too fast.

READ THE ENTIRE THREAD AND THE RECOMMENDED BOOKS BEFORE INSTITUTING CHANGES IN YOUR LIFE OR THE LIVES OF YOUR FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!

Having said that, here is a simple plan that I came up with for a friend of mine.


Step one, Day 1:
remove all gluten from your diet. All grains contain some amounts of gluten. The worst is wheat and the least bad is rice. So you can keep rice for a period of transition, say 10 days. After 10 days, ALL grains should be eliminated totally. Not even so-called “gluten free” breads are safe. This is hard, of course, but you can fill the gap by eating more vegetables and meats. Eat your vegetables with plenty of real butter on them (no additives). Eat meats with fat on them and eat the fat. This is an essential part of the cure. Start your day with bacon and eggs or ham and eggs and eat all you want.

Do this for TEN DAYS and then move to step two.

Step two, day 11: After 10 days, cut out rice and all beans (except haricot vert) completely. You should now be having no grains at all, in any form, in your diet. Read labels on everything. If there is a single word pertaining to a grain product, do NOT eat it. Continue to eat plenty of vegetables and meats with all the fat and added butter. Do not use cooking sprays, cook with duck fat.

Do this additional step for the next TEN DAYS. Then move to step three.


Step three, day 21: Remove all sugars from the diet. This includes all fruits. Do not replace this with any foods containing artificial sweeteners because they are excitotoxins and cause great harm. The only sweeteners allowed are xylitol, sorbitol, stevia. No honey, no corn syrup, NO forms of sugar at all. You can drink tea or coffee with xylitol and that will help with cravings. Increase your fat intake. The fat on beef, pork, duck, is good. You can continue to eat most vegetables. (Make sure that you use only olive oil and vinegar on salads; no commercial dressings.

Do this additional step for TEN DAYS.

Step four, day 31: Remove all dairy products except butter from the diet. All nuts, too. At this point, you will be eating only meat and vegetables. You should eat more cooked vegetables than raw (salad), and eat them with plenty of butter.

I've left dairy to this point because it can sometimes ease the issues that removing gluten creates.

Step five, day 41: Stop coffee; you can have green or black or mint teas. Gradually reduce the quantity of vegetables that you eat and fill the gap with meat and meat fats. This means that if you eat a piece of meat, it should have almost as much fat on it as lean. You can eat as much meat as you want, but be sparing with vegetables, giving preference to cooked ones over raw.
 

Gaby

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
How about dividing it in three parts: Beginners, the Paleo elimination diet (a paleo version for finding food sensitivities) and the Ketogenic diet. It could bring a person into ketosis the fastest but safest way. A fatty meal is introduced every two weeks to allow for digestive adjusting after a lifetime of carb metabolism and its stressful consequences. Adding limits to the grams of carbs will help people transition into ketosis more smoothly by the time they do the ketogenic diet. Some people might have more trouble than others, but perhaps as a general guideline...

BEGINNERS

First and Second Week

No more than 150 net grams of carbs per day.

Only homemade wholefoods allowed.
Cooking fats: lard, tallow, butter, duck fat.

Breakfast: bacon, butter and eggs.

Meals:
-Rice (preferably wild rice) – no more than 1 cup per day.
-Organs and meats of any kind including fish.
-Vegetables of any kind.
-Legumes
-Butter, olive oil, vinegar
-Salt, pepper, natural or herbal spices.

Drinks: tea, coffee with xylitol or stevia.

If hungry: bone broth or nuts (no peanuts)
Dessert: fruits with cream (no more than 1 cup)

To be eliminated:

Remove all gluten except for rice.
-no beer, nor grain derived OH beverage.
-no pasta, breads, flours, cookies, cereals, nor any grain-based product.
-no processed foods: if it comes in a package is suspect. No commercial food, nor dressings nor flavorings or flavored stuff, nor mayo or tomato sauce.
No artificial sweeteners nor sugar, nor high fructose corn syrup.
No soy or its products.
No MSG.
No transfats – avoid all processed food!
Not even so called “gluten free” foods.
No fruit juices nor sodas, except for homemade lemonade.
Read labels carefully!

Third and Fourth Week

No more than 100 net grams of net per day.

Cooking fats: lard, tallow, butter, duck fat.

Breakfast: bacon, butter and eggs.

Lunch time: Meat with a chunk of fat, eat the fat (use apple cider vinegar if indigestion)
Meals:
-Organs and meats of any kind including fish.
-Vegetables.
-Butter, olive oil, vinegar
-Salt, pepper, natural or herbal spic-es.
Drinks: tea, coffee with xylitol or stevia
If hungry: bone broth or nuts (no peanuts)
Dessert: fruits with cream (no more than 1 cup)

To be eliminated:

No grains allowed:
-Remove rice, all beans or legumes (except for green beans).
-Read labels carefully! Meat products might contain gluten.
No tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants.
Remember, no “gluten-free” products.

Fifth and Sixth Week

No more than 100 net grams of carbs per day.

Cooking fats: lard, tallow, butter, duck fat.

Breakfast: bacon, butter and eggs.
Lunch time: Meat with a chunk of fat, eat the fat (use apple cider vinegar if indigestion)
Dinner time: Meat with a chunk of fat, eat the fat (use apple cider vinegar if indigestion)
Meals:
-Organs and meats of any kind including fish.
-Vegetables.
-Butter, olive oil, vinegar
-Salt, pepper, natural or herbal spic-es.
Drinks: tea, coffee with xylitol or stevia
If hungry: nuts (no peanuts)
Drink at least 1 cup of bone broth

To be eliminated:

No fruit nor sugar of any kind (except for vegetables)
-Read labels carefully, meat products might have added sugar.
No more wine or other alcohol (it counts as sugar!)

Seventh and Eight Week

No more than 70 net grams of carbs per day.

Cooking fats: lard, tallow, butter, duck fat.

Breakfast: bacon, butter and eggs.
Lunch time: Meat with a chunk of fat, eat the fat (use apple cider vinegar if indigestion)
Dinner time: Meat with a chunk of fat, eat the fat (use apple cider vinegar if indigestion)
Meals:
-Organs and meats of any kind including fish.
-Cooked vegetables.
-Butter, olive oil, vinegar
-Salt, pepper, natural or herbal spic-es.
Drinks: tea, coffee (start decreasing coffee consumption) with xylitol or stevia and without milk or cream.
Drink at least 1 cup of bone broth
If hungry: a ham with butter and salt.


To be eliminated:

No dairy at all (except for butter)
-Read labels carefully, meat prod-ucts might contain lactose.
No nuts.

Ninth Week

Between 50 and 70 net grams of carbs per day

Cooking fats: lard, tallow, butter, duck fat.
Breakfast: bacon, butter and eggs.
Lunch time: Meat with a big chunk of fat, eat the fat (use apple cider vinegar if indigestion)
Dinner time: Meat with a big chunk of fat, eat the fat (use apple cider vinegar if indigestion)
Meals:
-Organs and meats of any kind including fish.
-Less cooked vegetables than meat
-Butter, olive oil, vinegar
Drinks: tea or herbal teas with xylitol or stevia and without milk or cream.
Drink at least 1 cup of bone broth with butter on it.
If hungry: a ham with butter and salt.


To be eliminated:

No more coffee.

Modified Laura's friend version:

Step one, Day 1: remove all gluten from your diet. All grains contain some amounts of gluten. The worst is wheat and the least bad is rice. Wild rice has no gluten on it. So you can keep rice, preferably wild rice, for a period of transition. After 2 weeks, ALL grains should be eliminated totally. Not even so-called “gluten free” breads are safe. No beer of course, nor any other grain-derived alcoholic beverage. This is hard, of course, but you can fill the gap by eating more vegetables and meats (includes fish) or organs like liver. Eat your vegetables with plenty of real butter on them (no additives). Start your day with bacon and eggs or ham and eggs and eat all you want. For two weeks, you are going to have a high fat meat breakfast. This is important, as decades of a high carb diet rich in processed food will make it difficult to digest the fats that your digestive system were made to digest. Switching to a higher fat meat diet will take one meal at a time for two weeks. If you are hungry, have a bowl of bone broth, you’ll find the recipe in Appendix B. You can have as much as you want. Only use natural sweeteners like xylitol and stevia (Caution: Sweet tastes can foster sweet cravings). Table sugar nor cane sugar qualify on this diet. Make sure you don’t eat more than 150 grams of net carbs per day.

Do this for 2 weeks and then move to step two.

Step two, day 16: After 2 weeks, cut out rice and all beans or legumes (except haricot vert – green beans), and the night shade family (tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants) completely. You should now be having no grains at all, in any form, in your diet. Read labels on everything. If there is a single word pertaining to a grain product, do NOT eat it. Continue to eat plenty of vegetables and meats. Do not use cooking sprays, cook with lard, tallow, duck fat, or butter. Other than your breakfast, take a second meal and eat meats with fat on them and eat the fat. If you have trouble digesting the fats, add apple cider vinegar to your meat, or get digestive enzymes or HCl. If you are hungry, have a bowl of bone broth, as much as you want.

If you are eating lots of fruits, tubers or starchy vegetables, or nuts, make sure you don’t eat more than 100 grams of net carbs per day.

Do this additional step for the next 2 weeks. Then move to step three.

Step three, day 31: Remove all sugars from the diet. This includes all fruits. Do not replace this with any foods containing artificial sweeteners because they are excitotoxins and cause great harm. The only sweeteners allowed are xylitol (or another sugar alcohol) and, stevia. Caution: sweet tastes can foster sweet cravings. No honey, no corn syrup, NO forms of sugar at all. You can drink tea or coffee with xylitol and that will help with cravings. Take your third meal and eat meats with fat on them and eat the fat. The fat on beef, pork, duck, is good. You can continue to eat most vegetables. (Make sure that you use only olive oil and vinegar on salads; no commercial dressings). If you have trouble digesting the fats, add apple cider vinegar to your meat, or get digestive enzymes. You don’t necessarily have to make 3 means if you 2 make you feel full. But don’t forget the bone broth if you get hungry with 3 meals.

By removing all fruits and sugars, you should easily stay below 100 net grams of carbs (net grams is total amount of carbs minus the grams of fiber) per day even if you eat lots of starchy vegetables and nuts. Remove all alcohol.

From now on, you are supposed to have at least one bowl of bone broth per day. If you are not hungry, it is better to sacrifice one meal (never breakfast) than to sacrifice your bone broth. It will help you transition from a lifetime of a crappy diet into a physiological one which will help you recover your health. It is nutrient packed in minerals and other elements that are needed to heal. It will save you lots of money in supplements as well!

Do this additional step for two weeks. If you have trouble digesting the fat despite the aid of supplements or apple cider vinegar, go back to the last step and stay there for another couple of weeks.

Step four, day 46: Remove all dairy products except butter from the diet. All nuts, too. At this point, you will be eating only meat or organs, and vegetables. You should eat more cooked vegetables than raw (salad), and eat them with plenty of butter. Add the butter to the bone broth as well.

Don’t consume more than 70 net grams in carbs. I would be surprised if you do, since by now you are only eating veggies as your sole carb source.

During these two weeks while you are on step 4, gradually decrease your coffee consumption. Substitute with black tea or herbal teas.

Step five, day 60: Stop coffee; you can have green or black or mint teas. Gradually reduce the quantity of vegetables that you eat and fill the gap with meat and meat fats. This means that if you eat a piece of meat, it should have almost as much fat on it as lean. You can eat as much meat as you want, but be sparing with vegetables, giving preference to cooked ones over raw. Vegetables will be the complement of meat, which should be the main meal. Don’t forget you can have as much bone broth with butter as you want.



PALEO ELIMINATION DIET

Keep your carb intake below 70 grams while you do the paleo elimination diet. You might find it hard reaching 70 grams of carbs since your sole carb source will be vegetables.

Step 1. Eat fatty meats or organs, your bone broth and vegetables for 4 days. No eggs or butter! You can choose ghee butter instead to add to your bone broth or vegetables. Always start with a big breakfast (even if it looks line dinner to you).

No cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, onions or garlic for a period - later, you introduce the sulfur containing veggies - the reason being some people are sensitive to sulfite containing foods. No other condiments than rosemary, cilantro, ginger, turmeric, black pepper and sea salt and olive oil.

Step 2. After 4 days, reintroduce eggs and see what happens in the next 3 days. If there was a reaction, eliminate eggs for at least 6 months when you can test it again.

Step 3. Proceed to test butter and wait for a possible reaction for the next 3 days. Same concept, if there was a reaction, eliminate for 6 months. You can substitute with ghee butter if you find you can’t tolerate real butter.

Step 4 and so forth. Test for the sulfur containing veggies, and other food culprits you might suspect. For some of us the natural sweetener stevia is inflammatory. For most of us coconut oil –despite its great fat - is inflammatory as well, which makes sense, it is a tropical fruit which was not around on the Northern hemisphere or else. Others can’t tolerate some spices. Most people can’t tolerate nuts except for cashews and walnuts. Nuts are often as high or even higher in phytic acid than grains! Dark chocolate (85% at the very minimum) can be tested as well. You can test all these foods with the paleo elimination diet.



KETOGENIC DIET

When you get up in the morning, have a nice protein breakfast rich in fat such as bacon, sausage maybe eggs if you tolerate them. Add a cup of broth if you like. This should be every single day.

Then, on normal days, have a bit of meat AND broth for lunch, a bit of meat and a bit of lettuce if you like, for dinner. Or just broth, or just meat. This meat should be the amount that is right for your weight. If you like, you can go a few grams over, but not more than that. Try to make sure you get the ratio of fat with this meat that is correct.

The amount of meat is calculated in the following way: Find out your weight in Kg (1 Kg = 2.2 pounds). Then calculate the amount of meat per day: from 0.8 tp 1 grams of protein per Kg of ideal weight per day. The ratio of fat and protein should be around 4 to 1. Keep in mind that fat is more energetic rich than protein, so a pork chop with a thick chunk of fat on it will do, also bacon. Typically, up to 85% of your energy will come as fat. You eat your allocated protein and then control satiety with fat. Works very well! People may have a bowl of fat rich broth and then they’re good for half a day.

Choose a convenient day when you can do intermittent fasting, i.e. on the weekends. On that day have your usual breakfast and then just bone broth for lunch and dinner and a snack if needed. You can add butter or ghee butter to your bone broth, and lard if necessary.
 

Psalehesost

The Living Force
Psyche said:
Keep in mind that fat is more energetic rich than protein, so a pork chop with a thick chunk of fat on it will do, also bacon.
Bacon is way too lean. If someone has a very high protein tolerance level, maybe an all-bacon meal could be possible, but I for one (perhaps it is the same for other skinny people) can't eat it to satiety without fogging up my head - at most I can have half a small pack, four or so slices, then all the rest of the meal must be fat.

More important at length than caclulating the protein level is experience - going very low on protein for a while and adapting to it, you'll then know if you exceed your level - much like your body would let you know it if you went on a carb binge, only the effect is less severe.

Skinny people like me might find (like I did) that fatty bone broth, whenever available, completely obsoletes meat.

Psyche said:
Choose a convenient day when you can do intermittent fasting, i.e. on the weekends. On that day have your usual breakfast and then just bone broth for lunch and dinner and a snack if needed. You can add butter or ghee butter to your bone broth, and lard if necessary.
As discussed in the ketogenic diet thread, we've pretty much done away with having specific days for it - we do it all the time. It's not really fasting, nor intermittent - we just cut down further on protein and keep up the fat and broth.
 
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