To Run before you can Walk

[Liberty]

Going back over what I have said in this thread and now at this point re-reading what has been offered is very exposing.
When I initially read Ailens words I felt judged and defensive.

Usually it is better to only concentrate on what we've done wrong before accusing or labeling others. For many people, this comes naturally, but for some, and maybe in your case, due to your upbringing or something, you have a defense mechanism that wants you to always feed the part where YOU are a victim, either alone or 50/50 with someone else? I don't know. The problem is that when you are a machine, you cannot understand yourself, and even less others. So you are not in a position to really assess the situation accurately. Hence, it is better and far more healing to take all the responsibility when you have a tendency to do the contrary.

So here I was revealed, in my head I was still saying what does this person know of my upbringing, or something, as though they have any idea.

Narcissists are (a) extremely sensitive to personal criticism and (b) extremely critical of other people. They think that they must be seen as perfect or superior or infallible, next to god-like (if not actually divine, then sitting on the right hand of God) -- or else they are worthless. There's no middle ground of ordinary normal humanity for narcissists.

And here I see, how being extremely sensitive to personal criticism has been an absolute bane in my life. I have become entrenched with people and felt they were being negative towards me, were as the truth is they were just trying to help or put forward their opinions and ideas. How could I grow and learn if I could not accept guidance or difference as part of life. It is a stagnant and negative way of being.

Also being extremely critical of other people, Oh yes I knew I had acted in this way, and what was the use of this, who benefited from this. Did it really make me feel, what superior, and why on earth did I want to feel above people or was it that I viewed myself as worthless. Either of these extreme positions is pretty hopeless.

A raw nerve was hit concerning my upbringing and education.

I learnt to read through the use of strong visual imagery and also by being read to, not by rote or memory. As to learning to write and comprehend language, I struggled through school, unable to retain the information as I seemed to have no way of storing and accessing this information. I learnt through practical experiences, and did well in Art, Cookery, Music and surprisingly Religious Studies, due to an inspired teacher who engaged with the subject and we studied and learnt through discussion and actively going out and meeting people from different religions.

Throughout my life I have consistently gone back to learning, taking on a Open University course in Health and Diet, training as a Reflexologist and studying a Fine Art Degree. Researching for my dissertation was a pleasure until I reached the point of over load in information and my mind would shut down and I would be unable to articulate my responses.

When I read the Myth of Sanity last year, I did recognise something within myself that I had never ever thought about until this point. I could only remember one name of a teacher at school. All of my primary school, all of my secondary school, no names, no descriptions of appearance, character, nothing at all. It was as if they were absent and played no part in my learning or I had completely wiped their memory and dissociated. I had assumed that this was due to poor recollection, I can however remember nearly all the kids I was at school with over the years, where they sat, their personalities and their names even the routines of school were all within my memory. Other people seem to have very vivid memories of teachers. Did I disassociate because I didn’t learn in the way that I was being taught? Or what.

In my initial post I wrote about wanting to break through a barrier and work within the network. I assimilate information visually and also by listening to pod casts, and I do find certain styles of writing easier for me to take on board like “The Works”, which I have said felt like more of a conversation that I was part of.

I am sorry if I have digressed, I can now read Ailens words and see that what is being said is advise, no judgement or criticism, how I interpret the language whether as a victim - defending myself against criticism or someone wanting to heal and take responsibility in my life as to how I can engage in thinking and seeing without disabling myself.

I have found this quote helpful.

“What good will it do to dwell on all this? I have to live my own life now.” I told her, as I have told many others, that blaming is surely not the point. The purpose of consolidating memories , and of making them verbal, is not to figure out who was a fault. “Fault” is a peculiar concept anyway, and has no place in the healing process, except perhaps to affirm that the victim herself was not at fault. And a preoccupation with blaming and avenging will blind a person to her own self-discovery. Rather the advantage of having a regular memories is in knowing, explicitly and as objectively as possible, what has happened in one’s life.

What you have written right here in the beginning poses something of a conundrum. You say that you "loved" this person, and then you say you were "blinded" by how the person went about leaving you. Perhaps you were blinded all the way around? Perhaps you didn't really love the person, but only an image that you had created in your own mind? When that person did not conform to that image or your expectations, perhaps you said and did things that made that person NOT feel loved at all? In the end, it's easy to say you love someone; the important thing is, does the person you claim to love actually feel loved?

Laura’s words and holding up this objective view concerning my relationship, made me confront this head on. I felt like I was battling against a huge emotional storm - wow what a negative intense response was felt. It was as if I was consumed by this indescribable part of me. It was me and also not me it was such a negative force of energy that I almost felt it would overpower me, the narcissistic personality was ranting that of course I love this person, and that I had not built up a false illusion of this person, and that I was not blinded on all sides. But this is the reality, did this person feel loved, I don’t think so.

As to being blinded as to how this person left. He had no choice, he considered what was best for both parties and this was the best option.

Is this also what happened with your first husband? It's also possible that the first husband was a real rotter - for whatever reason - and you took it all out on the second partner?

No this is not what happened with my first husband, but believing that I was a victim and taking this into my next relationship has been destructive to myself and my second partner.

It's all about YOUR pain and loss? Your hunger? Your need to have a victim to feed on? That sounds more like hunger pangs than love for another.

This appears to directly reflect my addiction and not love. I would tell myself that it was grief and loss in my life to no longer share a life with this person, but that pain is like some really unhealthy feeling and something I have never experienced before. It’s all consuming and frightening, to have such an extreme response as I said in my last post I had not wanted to eat or sleep and felt no hunger or tiredness.

I knew this to be detrimental, and I knew this was a pure source of negativity and I also started to see this as being the false and separate personality that would consume me if I didn’t act on the help from Laura and the network that was being offered to me.

You weren't doing any of it because you thought YOU had a problem, but because you wanted to be able to use the lingo as weapons against others and to pretend to authority. For you, engaging in reading and studying esoteric matters was all about maintaining control; it was about being envious and competitive.

The Hare and the Tortoise have nothing to do with your issues. You were racing ahead because you wanted to have all the jargon right, all the tools to hand to manipulate or hurt others with. It was all about control and feeding.

On the reading, If I have hurt anyone I am sorry. I will think on what you have said and try and take an objective view to respond to this.
What I’ve said about how I take in knowledge and understanding which is probably a slow process and one that I want to learn to develop, not to manipulate others but to help myself and hopefully help others.


Thank you Bud for what you have said, to show what is really going on as so often the world and environment around me reinforces an upside down view of reality.

You say that you blame yourself, but the entire rest of your post seems only to blame your 'pitiful' traits and circumstances that you do not really claim responsibility for. Your anger, contempt, and self-pity/aggrandizement show through in the way you use your language. Even in the sentence above, you cast yourself as the self-blaming victim abandoned by the uncaring man you loved.

I do care for this person and know that he is working and happy and know that the environment he is in is the right one for him.

I have really got in a pickle with the new layout and how to quote, just seemed to have mastered the last version. so please feel free to correct the quotes, but I thought it was better to post then to give up.

--
Edit: mod fixed quotes

 

[Ollie]

A raw nerve was hit concerning my upbringing and education.
I learnt to read through the use of strong visual imagery and also by being read to, not by rote or memory. As to learning to write and comprehend language, I struggled through school, unable to retain the information as I seemed to have no way of storing and accessing this information. I learnt through practical experiences, ...

Throughout my life I have consistently gone back to learning, ...

When I read the Myth of Sanity last year, I did recognise something within myself that I had never ever thought about until this point. I could only remember one name of a teacher at school. All of my primary school, all of my secondary school, no names, no descriptions of appearance, character, nothing at all. It was as if they were absent and played no part in my learning or I had completely wiped their memory and dissociated. I had assumed that this was due to poor recollection, ... Other people seem to have very vivid memories of teachers. Did I disassociate because I didn’t learn in the way that I was being taught? Or what.

What you have described, and as Martha Stout writes, this is a classic response to trauma experienced early in life - I can attest to the above, it has nothing to do with how you learned, or were taught. It is the result of a shift in brain chemicals brought on by the trauma. Consistently practicing EE helps, as does the therapy described by Peter Levine in 'In an Unspoken Voice'. There is also a CD in his book 'Healing Trauma' that may help overcome the effects of trauma.

 

[Laura]

Going back over what I have said in this thread and now at this point re-reading what has been offered is very exposing.

When I initially read Ailens words I felt judged and defensive.<snip>

So here I was revealed, in my head I was still saying what does this person know of my upbringing, or something, as though they have any idea.

We have a lot of experience ourselves not to mention extensive studies PLUS the experience of 16 years working with people. When it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, it's a duck. What most people don't realize is how NOT unique they are while, at the same time, being unique! Every situation has its own dynamics, and is unique that way, but the human responses are pretty categorizable along a spectrum. It's pretty easy to read people once you learn the cues and clues.

Narcissists are (a) extremely sensitive to personal criticism and (b) extremely critical of other people. They think that they must be seen as perfect or superior or infallible, next to god-like (if not actually divine, then sitting on the right hand of God) -- or else they are worthless. There's no middle ground of ordinary normal humanity for narcissists.

And here I see, how being extremely sensitive to personal criticism has been an absolute bane in my life. I have become entrenched with people and felt they were being negative towards me, were as the truth is they were just trying to help or put forward their opinions and ideas. How could I grow and learn if I could not accept guidance or difference as part of life. It is a stagnant and negative way of being.

Also being extremely critical of other people, Oh yes I knew I had acted in this way, and what was the use of this, who benefited from this. Did it really make me feel, what superior, and why on earth did I want to feel above people or was it that I viewed myself as worthless. Either of these extreme positions is pretty hopeless.

<snip>

Laura’s words and holding up this objective view concerning my relationship, made me confront this head on. I felt like I was battling against a huge emotional storm - wow what a negative intense response was felt. It was as if I was consumed by this indescribable part of me. It was me and also not me it was such a negative force of energy that I almost felt it would overpower me, the narcissistic personality was ranting that of course I love this person, and that I had not built up a false illusion of this person, and that I was not blinded on all sides. But this is the reality, did this person feel loved, I don’t think so.

As to being blinded as to how this person left. He had no choice, he considered what was best for both parties and this was the best option.

Are you beginning to see how long-suffering and patient the individual was in respect of you and your rages and need to control everything around you? Can you begin to get an inkling of the fact that it was your own behavior that brought on that which you claimed you did not want? That is, you wanted a warm, loving relationship, but everything you did was the opposite of a warm, loving relationship dynamic. And in the end, there was no one at all to blame but yourself for its ending. But still, all the blame was being dumped on the other person who did everything possible to make the separation as quick and clean and non-traumatic as possible - out of care and concern for you while, at the same time, trying to stay afloat in the toxic environment you had created.

In the end, the question is: do you really want to work on yourself so you don't have to go through this again and again and again? If there is the will, there is the way.

 

[Liberty]

What you have described, and as Martha Stout writes, this is a classic response to trauma experienced early in life - I can attest to the above, it has nothing to do with how you learned, or were taught. It is the result of a shift in brain chemicals brought on by the trauma. Consistently practicing EE helps, as does the therapy described by Peter Levine in 'In an Unspoken Voice'. There is also a CD in his book 'Healing Trauma' that may help overcome the effects of trauma.

Thanks Trevrizient for recommending "In an Unspoken Voice" by Peter Levine, this book seems to keep coming up on various threads so I will add it to my wish list along with "Polyvagal Theory" by Stephen Porges. I listened to Stephen Porges on Shrink Rap Radio and also watched some of the youtube interviews as it sounds quite a challenging read but one that keeps reinforcing its understanding of the autonomic nervous system. I have also at last got my sleep pattern back to normal, which I think is vital to my well being and back to the EE programme, which is the way to help clear past trauma.

Are you beginning to see how long-suffering and patient the individual was in respect of you and your rages and need to control everything around you? Can you begin to get an inkling of the fact that it was your own behavior that brought on that which you claimed you did not want? That is, you wanted a warm, loving relationship, but everything you did was the opposite of a warm, loving relationship dynamic. And in the end, there was no one at all to blame but yourself for its ending. But still, all the blame was being dumped on the other person who did everything possible to make the separation as quick and clean and non-traumatic as possible - out of care and concern for you while, at the same time, trying to stay afloat in the toxic environment you had created.


In the end, the question is: do you really want to work on yourself so you don't have to go through this again and again and again? If there is the will, there is the way.

I do feel like I've visited a virtual osteopath. The discomfort and pain down the right side of my neck and spine has reduced dramatically and even though my body still holds the memory of this misalignment and could so easily slip back into an old pattern that has been out of kilter for many years, I know I have to do everything in my power to stop this from happening.
I have to be aware of off kilter thoughts that distort the whole of my being, turning me into a negative energy.
I can not change my past behaviour and if I blamed and dumped on others this is not something I can reverse even if was possible, however sorry I am. What I can do is change my thoughts and actions in the present, and to learn and reflect on the past and the continued help that has been offered to me in the past and present.
What is said here, by the network, has greatly effected, how I now move forward. I can not be a stuck record and repeat what has happened over again.
Thank you all.