To Run before you can Walk

[Buddy]

The relationship I was in before I met and married my wife became toxic over time in a similar way. During the four years we were together, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out who was the crazy one, me or her, because there were times when I perceived evidence that would prove either case. That, alone, became disturbing.

It was just a crazy relationship. I agree with the idea that defining the exact pathology is not the most important thing right now. In my case, the relationship had some wonderful "ups" but the overall pattern seemed to be a downward spiral and getting dangerous, so it had to end...no matter who was what and no matter who was right or wrong. So it did.

Today, my understanding of how I participated in what happened to me is much fuller and involves my own narcissistic past conditioning that provided me with those unspoken "expectations" for partners and a whole lot of wishful thinking and some disregard for the small things that build up over time, among other things.

 

[Laura]

Today, my understanding of how I participated in what happened to me is much fuller and involves my own narcissistic past conditioning that provided me with those unspoken "expectations" for partners and a whole lot of wishful thinking and some disregard for the small things that build up over time, among other things.

This is a key part of the process.

The observable fact seems to be that the LEAST narcissistic of the individuals involved in a toxic dynamic is the one that is always asking "what am *I* doing wrong here?..." NOT the one who is pointing fingers and labeling someone else's behavior as wrong, bad, hurtful, etc. Indeed, there is acknowledgment of being hurt, but again, the least narcissistic individual usually blames the self, not others. There is hope for such a person; little hope for the one who is always looking for the mote in someone else's eye.

 

[Liberty]

What is important is to gather knowledge about the topic, and about the self, so as to better assess each and every situation we have ever been in until we discover how we, ourselves, participated in what happened to us. Whether it is from ignorance or our own damage. Blaming others for our situations is all too common, the first step to healing is to take responsibility.

Thank you Laura, in blaming an other person and not taking responsibility within my life I have allowed or made a choice to give up my free will. I did not see this at the beginning of our relationship but now can see that I had formed an attachment to N which was addictive and what I perceived as love was a feeding. In the early stages of our relationship we both managed to keep a level of independence, leading lives that both involved lots of travel separately and enjoying a very sociable life together. It was only later, after four years that we lived together that I gradually started to slip into giving up my free will and believed that I wasn't enough for N, this was a very gradual state - almost imperceptible like a tap slowly dripping.

You mentioned that one of your daughters has learning difficulties. Maybe your ex did also and the way he is now is a result of his environment in concert with similar difficulties?

My daughter's learning difficulties seem to stem more from being born with a cleft lip, very narrow air ways within here nose and a squint, her memory retention in certain areas of her brain seem to be effected, causing her to learn her maths one day and then forget it the next. She is creative and imaginative and can be lots of fun and these qualities far outway the difficulties that she faces. Understanding that both parents hand over biological and genetic information to create a new life is only part of the picture, it is when nurturing is included.
We have our physical body, our mental body but we also require that extra component that engages the heart and makes us complete.
I have felt that N environment as a child has effected his life and mine ultimately. For many years I thought that I was helping him with coming to terms with his childhood trauma but this is his responsibility to learn and do something about if he wants to, and not mine.

I agree with the idea that defining the exact pathology is not the most important thing right now. In my case, the relationship had some wonderful "ups" but the overall pattern seemed to be a downward spiral and getting dangerous, so it had to end...no matter who was what and no matter who was right or wrong. So it did.

Thank you, for both pointing this out, I have a long way to go but a sense of clarity is forming ,"Essays on Life" arrived in the post yesterday, which is the reason why I started this thread in the first place, and the network is helping me connect the dots, so thank you once more.

 

[Laura]

What is important is to gather knowledge about the topic, and about the self, so as to better assess each and every situation we have ever been in until we discover how we, ourselves, participated in what happened to us. Whether it is from ignorance or our own damage. Blaming others for our situations is all too common, the first step to healing is to take responsibility.

Thank you Laura, in blaming an other person and not taking responsibility within my life I have allowed or made a choice to give up my free will. I did not see this at the beginning of our relationship but now can see that I had formed an attachment to N which was addictive and what I perceived as love was a feeding. In the early stages of our relationship we both managed to keep a level of independence, leading lives that both involved lots of travel separately and enjoying a very sociable life together. It was only later, after four years that we lived together that I gradually started to slip into giving up my free will and believed that I wasn't enough for N, this was a very gradual state - almost imperceptible like a tap slowly dripping.

I think you are giving your free will way too much virtue here. You didn't have any then and don't have any now; you are a machine. You reacted according to your programs and so did he.

Perhaps you CAN catch a glimpse of how you were caught in the relationship but it does not appear that you as yet fully appreciate your own contribution.

Yes, most of what people think of as love IS feeding, but the observable facts seem to be that there is no way to really separate feeding from love; the issue is whether or not what each individual has to offer in the way of emotional food to the other is what the other really wants or needs.

You mentioned that one of your daughters has learning difficulties. Maybe your ex did also and the way he is now is a result of his environment in concert with similar difficulties?

My daughter's learning difficulties seem to stem more from being born with a cleft lip, very narrow air ways within here nose and a squint, her memory retention in certain areas of her brain seem to be effected, causing her to learn her maths one day and then forget it the next. She is creative and imaginative and can be lots of fun and these qualities far outway the difficulties that she faces. Understanding that both parents hand over biological and genetic information to create a new life is only part of the picture, it is when nurturing is included.

But studies are showing more and more that genetics carry a lot more weight than the previous 50 years of child-rearing philosophy have allowed.

Nevertheless, since you mention this, do you see the contradiction here? You do not grant your ex the possibility that he was damaged by his nurturing (or lack thereof).

Another thing to take into consideration is possible damage to the vagal system substratum. The problems with facial structures could be directly related to this part of the instinctive substratum which, in fact, has very rich connections with the cranial nerves including those that control the eyes, ears, breathing, mouth, lips, etc.

Right now, there is not a lot on polyvagal theory that is suitable for the layperson to read, but we are working on a presentation. Your daughter would benefit a great deal from the EE program which directly addresses problems with the autonomic nervous system of which the vagal system is only a part. It might greatly enhance her learning abilities.

We have our physical body, our mental body but we also require that extra component that engages the heart and makes us complete.

What does this comment have to do with anything under discussion? An individual without individuated soul potential can have physical, mental and heart components. A dog has emotions too, you know. So there is far more to the fully actualized human being than your comment allows.

I have felt that N environment as a child has effected his life and mine ultimately. For many years I thought that I was helping him with coming to terms with his childhood trauma but this is his responsibility to learn and do something about if he wants to, and not mine.

So true. As it is yours to do something about your own trauma - it is not someone else's responsibility.

I agree with the idea that defining the exact pathology is not the most important thing right now. In my case, the relationship had some wonderful "ups" but the overall pattern seemed to be a downward spiral and getting dangerous, so it had to end...no matter who was what and no matter who was right or wrong. So it did.

Thank you, for both pointing this out, I have a long way to go but a sense of clarity is forming ,"Essays on Life" arrived in the post yesterday, which is the reason why I started this thread in the first place, and the network is helping me connect the dots, so thank you once more.

Don't expect a sense of clarity this early in the process. The old self must die completely before the new self can be born. I don't know if you have read "In Search of the Miraculous" yet or not, but that is a very good place to start.

 

[Liberty]

I think you are giving your free will way too much virtue here. You didn't have any then and don't have any now; you are a machine. You reacted according to your programs and so did he.

Perhaps you CAN catch a glimpse of how you were caught in the relationship but it does not appear that you as yet fully appreciate your own contribution.

Yes, most of what people think of as love IS feeding, but the observable facts seem to be that there is no way to really separate feeding from love; the issue is whether or not what each individual has to offer in the way of emotional food to the other is what the other really wants or needs.

Thank you for this, yes I am a machine and did act according to my programmes. I have to take on board my own narcissistic side and realise that I did not give N what he needed nor did he give me what I needed and so a very unhappy loop was formed.

But studies are showing more and more that genetics carry a lot more weight than the previous 50 years of child-rearing philosophy have allowed.

Nevertheless, since you mention this, do you see the contradiction here? You do not grant your ex the possibility that he was damaged by his nurturing (or lack thereof).

I definitely do grant N the fact that he was damaged by his nurturing and thought at the time that I was helping him with this. I obviously couldn't do this for him as this involves him making a decision on how to do this ? and to be responsible.

Another thing to take into consideration is possible damage to the vagal system substratum. The problems with facial structures could be directly related to this part of the instinctive substratum which, in fact, has very rich connections with the cranial nerves including those that control the eyes, ears, breathing, mouth, lips, etc.

Right now, there is not a lot on polyvagal theory that is suitable for the layperson to read, but we are working on a presentation. Your daughter would benefit a great deal from the EE program which directly addresses problems with the autonomic nervous system of which the vagal system is only a part. It might greatly enhance her learning abilities.

I will get my daughter to join in with the EE programme. She has benefitted from seeing a cranial osteopath on a couple of occasions and couldn't stop laughing as he released areas within her head and neck. so it will be fun to see how long she can do before she cracks up doing EE. Joking apart I would do anything to help her with her learning difficulties.

We have our physical body, our mental body but we also require that extra component that engages the heart and makes us complete.

What does this comment have to do with anything under discussion? An individual without individuated soul potential can have physical, mental and heart components. A dog has emotions too, you know. So there is far more to the fully actualized human being than your comment allows.

I agree, I haven't got this knowledge or language for communicating and will need to engage in fully trying to understand and learn what makes up a fully actualized person.

Don't expect a sense of clarity this early in the process. The old self must die completely before the new self can be born. I don't know if you have read "In Search of the Miraculous" yet or not, but that is a very good place to start.

I started reading In Search of the Miraculous earlier on this year, but haven't currently got a copy, so I will add it to my wish list on Amazon. And yes, I do accept that these are very early days for me and I will need to keep my wits about me as programmes are very entrenched within me.

 

[Laura]

I think you are giving your free will way too much virtue here. You didn't have any then and don't have any now; you are a machine. You reacted according to your programs and so did he.

Perhaps you CAN catch a glimpse of how you were caught in the relationship but it does not appear that you as yet fully appreciate your own contribution.

Yes, most of what people think of as love IS feeding, but the observable facts seem to be that there is no way to really separate feeding from love; the issue is whether or not what each individual has to offer in the way of emotional food to the other is what the other really wants or needs.

Thank you for this, yes I am a machine and did act according to my programmes. I have to take on board my own narcissistic side and realise that I did not give N what he needed nor did he give me what I needed and so a very unhappy loop was formed.

And that dynamic continues with you, yes? But somehow, it's always somebody else's fault...

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

And why beholdest thou the mote ... - A mote signifies any "light substance," as dry chaff, or fine spires of grass or grain. It probably most usually signified the small "spiculae" or "beards" on a head of barley or wheat. It is thus placed in opposition to the word "beam."

Beam - The word used here signifies a large piece of squared timber. The one is an exceedingly small object, the other a large one. The meaning is, that "we are much more quick and acute to judge of small offences in others, than of much larger offences in ourselves." Even a very "small" object in the eye of another we discern much more quickly than a much larger one in our own; a small fault in our neighbor we see much more readily than a large one in ourselves.

 

[Avi]

I agree with that comment whole-heartedly Laura, particularly about the danger to find comfort in our doings and blame others, either overtly or even covertly hidden in our attitudes and thoughts whether verbally expressed or not.

Learning to take responsibility is not always an easy task but it is an imperative step towards healing and truly moving in life.

Just wanted to chime in with that.

 

[Alada]

But studies are showing more and more that genetics carry a lot more weight than the previous 50 years of child-rearing philosophy have allowed.

Nevertheless, since you mention this, do you see the contradiction here? You do not grant your ex the possibility that he was damaged by his nurturing (or lack thereof).

I definitely do grant N the fact that he was damaged by his nurturing and thought at the time that I was helping him with this.

Yet earlier in this very thread N is labeled as a psychopath. Would a psychopath necessarily be damaged by deficient nurturing, later come to a realisation of that deficit, of the problems it caused, and then try to approach their parents about it?

 

[Chu]

Yet earlier in this very thread N is labeled as a psychopath. Would a psychopath necessarily be damaged by deficient nurturing, later come to a realisation of that deficit, of the problems it caused, and then try to approach their parents about it?

My thoughts too. You seem to be engaging in contradictory thinking. Perhaps re-reading your posts and thinking about them would be a good idea. It seems you are still not assuming enough responsibility, and that you see yourself as much more of a victim than you really are?

I have to take on board my own narcissistic side and realise that I did not give N what he needed nor did he give me what I needed and so a very unhappy loop was formed.

Usually it is better to only concentrate on what we've done wrong before accusing or labeling others. For many people, this comes naturally, but for some, and maybe in your case, due to your upbringing or something, you have a defense mechanism that wants you to always feed the part where YOU are a victim, either alone or 50/50 with someone else? I don't know. The problem is that when you are a machine, you cannot understand yourself, and even less others. So you are not in a position to really assess the situation accurately. Hence, it is better and far more healing to take all the responsibility when you have a tendency to do the contrary.

You might want to read this excerpt from Myth of Sanity, where Martha Stout speaks about dissociation and what defines the people who can or cannot recover :

Are there souls, so to speak, for whom the prognosis is better than for others? And when I consider all my patients, over all the years, the answer is yes: there is in fact an astonishingly robust correlation between an individual's successful recovery on the one hand, and on the other hand, a person's preexisting conviction that she and she alone is responsible for something. This something could be an endeavor or a specific person, or is quite likely to be the conduct of her life in general. People who are compelled and organized by a sense of responsibility for their actions tend to recover.
And conversely, sadly, people whose directive meaning systems do not include such a conviction tend not to recover, tend to remain dissociatively fragmented and lost.
This distinction is other than that of perceived locus of control-Who has the power, I or the universe?-which is an understandably double-edged issue for nearly all survivors of trauma. Rather, the difference is that of tenaciously assuming personal responsibility for one's own actions, and therefore taking on personal risk, versus placing the highest valuation upon personal safety, both physical and emotional, which often precludes the acknowledgment of responsibility. (If I acknowledge responsibility toward my child-or my friend or my ideas or my community-then I may be compelled to stick my neck out. I may have to do or feel something that will make me more vulnerable.) Here, the psychology of trauma comes full circle, in that the original function of dissociation is to buffer and protect; and so by rights, patients who value self-protection above all else should be candidates for treatment failure, even though they may experience, in addition, an ambivalent wish to be rid of their devitalizing dissociative reactions.
A self-protective system of mind may express itself behaviorally in many ways. Three of the most common ways can be characterized as action-avoidant dependency upon another person or upon a confining set of rules, a preoccupation with reassigning blame, and actions and complaints that indicate a lack of perspective on one's own problems relative to the problems of others. In dissociative identity disorder, such behaviors-just like their "responsible" opposites in a very different "soul"-may be observed, along with some distracting variations in style; across all of the various personalities.
The third behavioral expression of a self-protective soul-acting upon a lack of perspective on one's own problems relative to those of others-is reflected in our society at large by the popular phenomenon of victim identification. Victim identification pre­supposes the belief that there is a finite group of victims within the larger population, and that one is either a member of this group or not. Membership is (paradoxically) attractive because it affords, first and foremost, a sense of belonging, and after that, all the special status, sympathy, and considerations typically given to those who have been preyed upon and hurt. Also, as an identity, as something to be, it may fill up the terrifying sense of emptiness that often follows trauma.
Unfortunately, forever holding on to an identity as victim bodes ill for the person's recovery from that very trauma. Holding fast to this way of seeing oneself and the world can keep an individual endlessly beguiled by his own misery. Also, victim identification blinds its subscribers to the leveling fact that we have all-yes, granted, some more so than others-but we have all been hurt at one time or another. We are in this together: patients, non­patients, therapists, everyone.
For these reasons, it is crucial that a fine balance be struck by therapists, and by anyone wishing to help those with DID, or any other dissociative disorder-in the session room, in the home, in survivors groups, and even in the newly developed context of mental health Web sites and chat rooms. A survivor of trauma is a victim, certainly; but "victim" does not comprise the totality of her, or anyone else's, identity. Helpers must support the healing process in both of its phases: the survivor must endure the discovery that she is a victim, and then she must take responsibility for being that no longer. Both parts are equally important, and in neither phase can self-protection be the primary goal. Enabling someone's long­term identity as a victim robs her of an important human right, that of being responsible for her own life.
Also, whether or not a particular person is willing, after a time, to relinquish the status of victim is important information for a helper, because it tends to predict who will and who will not recover. In this regard, I sometimes gently point out to a patient that if she will reflect for a moment, she will probably realize that extreme victim identification and self-pity were, truth to tell, prominent characteristics of her abuser. And is this really how she wants to live her whole life, too?

One also has to be aware of the fact that by staying in the victim attitude and blaming others, one does not really see how he/she is feeding, in the sense that they are getting something from the drama of the scenario where the image they have of themselves of the "martyr"/"innocent prey" is even enjoyed by the false personality.

 

[Lilou]

If N scores high on psychopathic traits, I don't think he would have any problem confronting his parents on issues of abuse/neglect during his childhood, even if the abuse never happened or he embellished the story . And he would do it loudly, so Liberty would think, ah, he is telling the truth, poor thing. Yet he is lying about his affairs with other women, etc. This could very well have been a tactic to garner pity and give him a convenient excuse for this behavior. He's lying & cheating - but it's not his fault, he was abused.

The reason I say this is, during my short lived experience with a pathological*, he claimed the same thing – a childhood of severe physical trauma and neglect. He even went so far as to confront his father on the alleged abuse, in front of me. His father acted like he had no idea what he was talking about. But the show he put on for me did the job of eliciting pity from me. I was incredulous on how his father could sit there like it never even happened. Because, in fact, it probably never happened.

*I say pathological, because I can't say 100% he is a genetic psychopath. He scores high on the list of traits, and since he was born on an AIR Force base, I figure that upped the odds for questionable genetics. And like Laura points out, it doesn't matter what the diagnosis is, a pathological is toxic, will damage our well being & most importantly, will never change!

You were married for a very long time, so you have to understand what part you played in this. Was it social conditioning that made you stay? Fear of being alone? Wishful thinking, that you could love him to wellness? Or a mutual feeding loop?

I've been rereading The Wave, and found this quote which you may find helpful:

For those who believe that it is Love to “accept enslavement” — which is to respond to manipulation and thereby serve the STS faction, it becomes clear that to do so is to neutralize their effectiveness as an STO candidate because they are then no longer “purely positive”! By accepting the manipulations, they become part of the other side!

The bottom line here is this: if you are duped or sucked into the illusions of the machinations of STS, you are effectively “one of them”, no matter what your intentions, and you thus further contribute to the unbalanced energies. This neutralizes the true nature of Service to Others.

Not to negate your responsibility in this relationship, it is possible that his childhood abuse story is simply a tool he used to keep you feeling sorry for him. Now that you are removed from the marriage, you can start to unravel your role, why you stayed so long, shed the victim attitude and start to heal!

 

[Liberty]

Thank you all for your very insightful posts.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

And why beholdest thou the mote ... - A mote signifies any "light substance," as dry chaff, or fine spires of grass or grain. It probably most usually signified the small "spiculae" or "beards" on a head of barley or wheat. It is thus placed in opposition to the word "beam."

Beam - The word used here signifies a large piece of squared timber. The one is an exceedingly small object, the other a large one. The meaning is, that "we are much more quick and acute to judge of small offences in others, than of much larger offences in ourselves." Even a very "small" object in the eye of another we discern much more quickly than a much larger one in our own; a small fault in our neighbor we see much more readily than a large one in ourselves.

Thank you Laura for this, I have a very entrenched programme, one that I will have to work very hard on, facing this and keeping it in mind at all times will be essential. Again, thank you once more, knowing that always what you offer is supportive and instructive.

I agree with that comment whole-heartedly Laura, particularly about the danger to find comfort in our doings and blame others, either overtly or even covertly hidden in our attitudes and thoughts whether verbally expressed or not.
Learning to take responsibility is not always an easy task but it is an imperative step towards healing and truly moving in life.

This is a position that I have been in for a long time, old patterns are hard to see in yourself as it had melded and become part of my makeup. It felt like I could not break free of this behaviour as it has become so much part of me, it was if I had moments of seeing and then falling back to sleep. I seemed unable to understand the dynamics of this destructive element within myself and as for knowing how to deal with it, it was not confronted. The question that did keep reoccurring in my mind and within my dreams at the beginning of the year , was what had become of me ? as now, all I could see was that I was nothing more then a machine. I was beginning to mentally start to trace back within myself at what point had this happened but doubted my thoughts, memories and questioned whether this was going to be helpful or locking me in the past. At that time I really could not or would not take responsibility for this situation and so became depressed and unhappy, making other peoples lives around me miserable.
I will have to learn how to break this, so that I can heal and move on in my life.

I will have to break off here as it is very late and I have work tomorrow. I will be going away early on Sunday for a week but will try and post tomorrow night my thoughts and the help that Ailen, Alada and Lilou have offered. Thank you all.

 

[Liberty]

3 months ago the man I love and had lived with for 4 years left me, and not a day has gone by that I didn't blame myself.

I was blinded by how this person went about this and focused on that, seeing myself as the victim yet again and partially blaming an other instead of being able to take full responsibility for the position I was in.

What has been a constant on waking each day was a jolt of pain, of loss - and that knowledge that it was I , who was responsible for what had happened.
But there was always conflict I still saw myself as the victim as this is a very deep rooted programme, and I didn't heal, I felt the knife within me at all times.

In the past year I had lulled myself into believing that if I could change my external situation, that my internal situation would be resolved. If I was able to move away from N's environment - from the financial control I found myself in and could take on my own path that I would be free of him and responsible for myself. My energy was spent on this and all the time I was becoming weaker and weaker. I was drained and believed this to be due to the length of time this financial settlement had taken, not to the underlying fact that I was not seeing myself. I again was perceiving myself as the injured party, the victim and blamed N for the tortuous delays.

Thank you Ailen for the passage from Martha Stout’s book, The Myth of Sanity . I read this book last year but I was not looking at myself whilst reading it. At the time I felt, yes sympathy(cringe) for others that were affected and damaged , I distanced myself and denied that any of this was in my life.

Also, whether or not a particular person is willing, after a time, to relinquish the status of victim is important information for a helper, because it tends to predict who will and who will not recover. In this regard, I sometimes gently point out to a patient that if she will reflect for a moment, she will probably realize that extreme victim identification and self-pity were, truth to tell, prominent characteristics of her abuser. And is this really how she wants to live her whole life, too?

I most definitely don't want to live my whole life long in this way, and will work on this as the imperative.

The desire to race through books so that I could catch up has been futile, I was hell bent on reading but did not allow and understand the relevance of each of these special books from the recommended QFS list for me. Many of the books I wrote notes on , thinking that I was engaging and part of me was. But not at a really deep level.
Taking time and being patient and knowing that in my case this is what was needed, has been a lesson and one that I will have to go back over. It seems to be the classic story of the Hare and the Tortoise.

Posting this thread has been hard and painful . I heard that voice within me that stopped me from networking as I was so full of ego or programmes, I could do this on my own I had the books, the threads on books as a resource and all the time I was also dragging down an innocent party.

I have not eaten or slept sometimes for days on end in recent months, this is not said to garner pity for me. This is obviously detrimental and I would eventually force myself to eat, but sleep has been elusive. This is something I have never done or felt like in my life, I eat with pleasure, I like the diet my body is so much healthier and clearer without the wheat, dairy, coffee, alcohol etc. I really don't miss a thing and here I was not even wanting to eat at all. This is said for others to hear, so that if this comes up, to network. This is 100% my responsibility but I felt no hunger or sleep deprivation, and I wanted to shut down.

At the last UKFOTCM meeting I discussed my resistant to the BAHA portion of the EE programme. I felt within 8 to 10 minutes of BAHA that I was going to not be able to breath, my airways were too narrow, lungs to small, my excuses. But it was more than that I felt like BAHA was mechanical, that a kind of engine was being switched on inside me and that it ran too fast . The EE programme is about unblocking emotional trauma of past programmes I know what it's there for and yet I resisted. I know that I am opening myself up by saying this as it is so fundamental and I am sure if I take all the advise offered on the EE thread I will understand that this is how it is for many until you can work on your past.
Last year I found the POTS breathing and meditation incredibly beneficial, but since March all I do is cry and cry.

I think what both Alada and Lilou have to say is valuable but seeing that I was not taking responsibility for myself. I am narcissistic and have blamed others. I've passed the buck for too long and this can not continue.
I am going to be away for the next week, but thank you all for your time and what you have offered me.

 

[Laura]

3 months ago the man I love and had lived with for 4 years left me, and not a day has gone by that I didn't blame myself.

I was blinded by how this person went about this and focused on that, seeing myself as the victim yet again and partially blaming an other instead of being able to take full responsibility for the position I was in.

What you have written right here in the beginning poses something of a conundrum. You say that you "loved" this person, and then you say you were "blinded" by how the person went about leaving you. Perhaps you were blinded all the way around? Perhaps you didn't really love the person, but only an image that you had created in your own mind? When that person did not conform to that image or your expectations, perhaps you said and did things that made that person NOT feel loved at all? In the end, it's easy to say you love someone; the important thing is, does the person you claim to love actually feel loved?

Then, perhaps when that person left you, you were still blinded, thinking it should be this way or that way, that he should conform to the "leaving protocol" that met your demands and expectations? In other words, the person could not meet your expectations or demands no matter what he did. He was there and you raged at him; he left and you raged at him. And now you are basically raging because you are in a situation of your own making.

Is this also what happened with your first husband? It's also possible that the first husband was a real rotter - for whatever reason - and you took it all out on the second partner?

What has been a constant on waking each day was a jolt of pain, of loss - and that knowledge that it was I , who was responsible for what had happened.

It's all about YOUR pain and loss? Your hunger? Your need to have a victim to feed on?

But there was always conflict I still saw myself as the victim as this is a very deep rooted programme, and I didn't heal, I felt the knife within me at all times.

That sounds more like hunger pangs than love for another.

In the past year I had lulled myself into believing that if I could change my external situation, that my internal situation would be resolved. If I was able to move away from N's environment - from the financial control I found myself in and could take on my own path that I would be free of him and responsible for myself. My energy was spent on this and all the time I was becoming weaker and weaker. I was drained and believed this to be due to the length of time this financial settlement had taken, not to the underlying fact that I was not seeing myself. I again was perceiving myself as the injured party, the victim and blamed N for the tortuous delays.

I don't think it is useful to drag N back into the drama that you began this post with. You are using him and that drama as an excuse for your behavior.

The desire to race through books so that I could catch up has been futile, I was hell bent on reading but did not allow and understand the relevance of each of these special books from the recommended QFS list for me. Many of the books I wrote notes on , thinking that I was engaging and part of me was. But not at a really deep level.

You weren't doing any of it because you thought YOU had a problem, but because you wanted to be able to use the lingo as weapons against others and to pretend to authority. For you, engaging in reading and studying esoteric matters was all about maintaining control; it was about being envious and competitive.

Taking time and being patient and knowing that in my case this is what was needed, has been a lesson and one that I will have to go back over. It seems to be the classic story of the Hare and the Tortoise.

The Hare and the Tortoise have nothing to do with your issues. You were racing ahead because you wanted to have all the jargon right, all the tools to hand to manipulate or hurt others with. It was all about control and feeding.

Posting this thread has been hard and painful . I heard that voice within me that stopped me from networking as I was so full of ego or programmes, I could do this on my own I had the books, the threads on books as a resource and all the time I was also dragging down an innocent party.

Indeed. I have some difficulty believing that you are truly sincere.

I think what both Alada and Lilou have to say is valuable but seeing that I was not taking responsibility for myself. I am narcissistic and have blamed others. I've passed the buck for too long and this can not continue.
I am going to be away for the next week, but thank you all for your time and what you have offered me.

Like I said, I don't have much confidence in your sincerity since it seems that you read books, absorb concepts, and try to parrot them back to maintain your self-image. Right now, your self-image is "I'm working on myself... doing the work... see? I know the words.... I know I'm supposed to say I'm narcissistic right now, so if I say it, all will be well and go back to normal and I'll get what I want..."

Consider the following written about narcissists in relation to yourself:

Narcissists are (a) extremely sensitive to personal criticism and (b) extremely critical of other people. They think that they must be seen as perfect or superior or infallible, next to god-like (if not actually divine, then sitting on the right hand of God) -- or else they are worthless. There's no middle ground of ordinary normal humanity for narcissists.

They can't tolerate the least disagreement. In fact, if you say, "Please don't do that again -- it hurts," narcissists will turn around and do it again harder to prove that they were right the first time; their reasoning seems to be something like "I am a good person and can do no wrong; therefore, I didn't hurt you and you are lying about it now..." -- sorry, folks, I get lost after that.

Anyhow, narcissists are habitually cruel in little ways, as well as big ones, because they're paying attention to their fantasy and not to you, but the bruises on you are REAL, not in your imagination. Thus, no matter how gently you suggest that they might do better to change their ways or get some help, they will react in one of two equally horrible ways: they will attack or they will withdraw.

Be wary of wandering into this dragon's cave -- narcissists will say ANYTHING, they will trash anyone in their own self-justification, and then they will expect the immediate restoration of the status quo.

They will attack you (sometimes physically) and spew a load of bile, insult, abuse, contempt, threats, etc., and then -- well, it's kind of like they had indigestion and the vicious tirade worked like a burp: "There. Now I feel better. Where were we?" They feel better, so they expect you to feel better, too.

They will say you are nothing, worthless, and turn around immediately and say that they love you. When you object to this kind of treatment, they will say, "You just have to accept me the way I am. (God made me this way, so God loves me even if you are too stupid to understand how special I am.)"

Accepting them as they are (and staying away from them entirely) is excellent advice.

The other "punishment" narcissists mete out is banishing you from their glorious presence -- this can turn into a farce, since by this point you are probably praying to be rescued, "Dear God! How do I get out of this?" The narcissist expects that you will be devastated by the withdrawal of her/his divine attention, so that after a while -- a few weeks or months (i.e., the next time the narcissist needs to use you for something) -- the narcissist will expect you to have learned your lesson and be eager to return to the fold.

If you have learned your lesson, you won't answer that call.

They can't see that they have a problem; it's always somebody else who has the problem and needs to change. Therapies work at all only when the individual wants to change and, though narcissists hate their real selves, they don't want to change -- they want the world to change. And they criticize, gripe, and complain about almost everything and almost everyone almost all the time.

 

[Buddy]

What has been a constant on waking each day was a jolt of pain, of loss - and that knowledge that it was I , who was responsible for what had happened.
But there was always conflict I still saw myself as the victim as this is a very deep rooted programme, and I didn't heal, I felt the knife within me at all times.

I don't think this is what is meant by personal responsibility. It's not about trying to make yourself believe "it's all my fault" and then suffering that "but it's really not all my fault" on the rebound.

As I have learned from experience, it's about first, understanding that we cannot see the whole picture of our scenario while we are still deeply embedded in it because our deeper assumptions and beliefs are motivating us and interpreting what we see to begin with. This is in The Wave.

Then, it's about understanding how our intent to have some control of someone or something (for example) sets up a system where all the behaviors, like manipulations and coercions that were previously learned, surface for us to use as the tools to accomplish the goal and we simply function automatically - mechanically. This is in the basic psychology books.

Even when we don't always know why we say and do certain things, sometimes we can get a sense that people we know from the past used these behaviors and they made quite an impression on us at the time (in more ways than one). For many of us, that's enough to make a useful program.

 

[Andromeda]

3 months ago the man I love and had lived with for 4 years left me, and not a day has gone by that I didn't blame myself.

You say that you blame yourself, but the entire rest of your post seems only to blame your 'pitiful' traits and circumstances that you do not really claim responsibility for. Your anger, contempt, and self-pity/aggrandizement show through in the way you use your language. Even in the sentence above, you cast yourself as the self-blaming victim abandoned by the uncaring man you loved.

I was blinded by how this person went about this and focused on that, ....

Can you imagine and describe how you think he should have done this differently?