Top 5 / Worst 5 foods?

truth seeker said:
Ailén's completely right and I apologize for encouraging you with this - I was under the impression that you were more knowledgeable due to the psychopathy talk.
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Ditto, every word of that.
I assumed for some strange reason that you were up to speed with the dietary information, otherwise why would you even think of giving a talk about it? Well, this is actually a good question. And the word retreat completely passed me by.
I apologize to you and everyone else for my blatant lack of attention and having made suggestions when you were clearly not ready to give this talk, not to mention a retreat.
 
Ailén said:
You have to be kidding. If that's the only consideration, and you haven't thought about any other dangers or disservice to others, then I'm really flabbergasted and your humungous ego.
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I'm really sorry about all this, and we have obviously not done our homework well enough (hence the initial question about food). On that note, I would like a clarification on this one: when you say "dangers or disservice to others", are you saying that it is possible to do pipe-breathing so wrong that it is actually harmful? Or is it something else? What exactly are the dangers that you foresee, and which we are missing? As it is we are still learning. Thank you.
 
foofighter said:
I'm really sorry about all this, and we have obviously not done our homework well enough (hence the initial question about food). On that note, I would like a clarification on this one: when you say "dangers or disservice to others", are you saying that it is possible to do pipe-breathing so wrong that it is actually harmful? Or is it something else? What exactly are the dangers that you foresee, and which we are missing? As it is we are still learning. Thank you.
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I was talking about the whole idea of the retreat, not just Pipe-Breathing, even if in some cases, you still need training in order to know how much a person can do safely.

The "dangers and disservice to others" I had in mind (but it's not an exhaustive list) were:

- When people are in a state of deep relaxation, they can be very vulnerable too, and anything you say to them could be dangerous. Self-hypnosis has a lot of that! A person could go deeper and deeper into their own lies and illusions, and never be able to See reality in spite of the potential being there.

- In those states, you open up a dangerous door for attachments and all kinds of things that we cannot even understand in our reality. This is why the EE meditation is different, since it builds a protection against that.

- Your own ignorance will be transmitted to your students. Being "the teacher", most people who lack in critical thinking (Authoritarian followers, or very wounded people who usually go to this sort of retreats because they are looking for healing) will believe anything or most of what you say. Do you realize your responsibility in that? I think you were just thinking of your ego.

- The dietary changes have to be done with a lot of knowledge, taking each person individually, and gradually. Your "top 5" foods were not even wrong to start changing a diet.

1) Buckwheat
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Disservice and danger. A person highly intolerant to gluten might have a reaction. And it is high in anti-nutrients and carbs, which, if you had been keeping up with the forum, you wouldn't be recommending.

2) Lean meat
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Disservice and big danger. People need the right amount of protein, and good fats. LOTS OF IT! Read the forum.

3) Coconut oil
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Disservice and danger. Not always the best kind of fat, not good for everybody.

4) Garlic
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Disservice and danger: Many people are alergic to it, and even if it is not bad for some, it won't improve their health! It is a detail.

5) Turmeric
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Disservice (at the least). You are teaching people to concentrate on a detail (and a spice which isn't good for everyone) instead of teaching them about REAL nutrition, good fats, bad carbs, good proteins, etc.

- With your "retreat", the way you seem to be going about it, you are lying to people BIG TIME, because you are lying to yourselves. I'd say that is a huge disservice! Don't you think there are enough lies in the world as it is? What is even sadder, is that you thought, after years of reading this forum, that you were "speshul" and that none of what is researched here applies to you.

- If anything, with self-hypnosis you might get some people to feel better about themselves for a moment, but that is also a disservice when you don't provide them with knowledge, with proper healing, with tools for them to understand. You are only patching up the symptoms, NOT healing the wound.

- Some people in these states can experience a trauma again, and if they are not guided properly, the result will be that they've made the trauma worse!

Like I said, that is not an exhaustive list, and I am not really sure that you wanted to know more than you wanted to nitpick, but I am taking your word for it, and writing for others too who might have thought your retreat was a good idea.

In a sense, what you were/are planning on doing is not much different from what happened recently to other members who got caught by their own hubris and ignorance.
 
foofighter said:
Ailén said:
You have to be kidding. If that's the only consideration, and you haven't thought about any other dangers or disservice to others, then I'm really flabbergasted and your humungous ego.
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I'm really sorry about all this, and we have obviously not done our homework well enough (hence the initial question about food). On that note, I would like a clarification on this one: when you say "dangers or disservice to others", are you saying that it is possible to do pipe-breathing so wrong that it is actually harmful? Or is it something else? What exactly are the dangers that you foresee, and which we are missing? As it is we are still learning. Thank you.
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Hi foofighter,

Some additional thoughts:

If the technique is learned incorrectly or lacking in efficiency the vagal stimulation would be weak to none at all, leading a student to eventually drop it due to not receiving the benefits for feedback necessary in any discipline.

If too many pipe breaths are performed in a row, the vagal stimulation may lower blood pressure to levels of risk.

If proper instruction in the need for diaphragmatic breathing is missing, there’s the danger of the practice literally reinforcing bad breathing.

Pipe breathing has been showing results of emotional cleansing similar to round breathing though on a milder scale. Without due awareness (instruction) regarding this process, there’s a possibility of psychological confusion or trauma.
 
Ailén said:
Like I said, that is not an exhaustive list, and I am not really sure that you wanted to know more than you wanted to nitpick, but I am taking your word for it, and writing for others too who might have thought your retreat was a good idea.
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Thank you, that is actually exactly what I was wondering about. We knew that we were not up to speed on the food discussions, but had no idea it was THAT complicated. So, given your comments we will definitely skip that part.

For the self-hypnosis, we are aware of all the issues you mentioned, and as far as we know the system, by Cal Banyan, that Starlight is certified in deals specifically with all of those potential problems.

For the breathing, we are now left wondering whether even we ourselves do it correctly. Given all that you said, is it advisable to try it on our own without first having gone to a live training? All we have is the video plus the audio from Laura. With all of those potential problems it sounds like that might not be enough.

Thanks again for your exhaustive reply!
 
foofighter said:
We knew that we were not up to speed on the food discussions, but had no idea it was THAT complicated.
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Sorry foofighter, I don't understand this. If you knew you were not up to speed on these matters, why did would you think you could teach others about it?
 
Shane said:
Sorry foofighter, I don't understand this. If you knew you were not up to speed on these matters, why did would you think you could teach others about it?
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Like I said, we mainly wanted to provide some good food (we all have to eat something anyway), and maybe some discussion around it. The purpose of me posting this topic was to see if it would be possible to do that, without going into a fullblown "teaching", which we agree we are not really able to do. It was supposed to be a very small part of the whole concept, overall. But even such a limited thing seems very hard to do properly, so we'll just skip it.

There is a bit of irony in this whole situation though, because one of the main reasons I included Buckwheat in my list is because of the "Buckwheat castle" videos that Laura did, and which we had just watched. So, I would agree that is indeed very difficult to provide truthful information about food, and teach about it, even with the best of intentions.
 
foofighter Today at 07:18:11 AM:
There is a bit of irony in this whole situation though, because one of the main reasons I included Buckwheat in my list is because of the "Buckwheat castle" videos that Laura did, and which we had just watched. So, I would agree that is indeed very difficult to provide truthful information about food, and teach about it, even with the best of intentions.
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I really enjoyed those videos, but the real point is that you ,as a forum member with aspirations of sharing your knowledge with others in this retreat, should known better. Anyway, regardlees of a video, you have learnt a lot about diet and nutrition here ,in the forum, and in your personal life, I suppose, so there's really no irony here, or at least I don't share the feeling. I most get the feeling your reluctant to getting the point that your first 5 top choices where really off and that they reflects on your actual view of a healthy diet, and that consequently shapes your world and understanding of it.
 
EGVG said:
I really enjoyed those videos, but the real point is that you ,as a forum member with aspirations of sharing your knowledge with others in this retreat, should known better. Anyway, regardlees of a video, you have learnt a lot about diet and nutrition here ,in the forum, and in your personal life, I suppose, so there's really no irony here, or at least I don't share the feeling. I most get the feeling your reluctant to getting the point that your first 5 top choices where really off and that they reflects on your actual view of a healthy diet, and that consequently shapes your world and understanding of it.
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I really do agree with that, and that the 5 I put there was so off base was a bit of a shocker, and a good reality check. And yes, I should have known better. I should have done more of the research on my own first, before posing the question. I should not have taken the advice in the buckwheat videos, without checking it for myself. I (or Starlight) should have gotten EE certification before even considering including it in the retreat (which we were planning to do, by the way). And many more things.
 
You may want to check the Life Without Bread and Vegetarian Myth threads. They are a goldmine of updated information about the forum's latest dietary research.

Buckwheat was indeed one of our staple foods at one point, but that's been long foregone since research combined with our own experience proved that grains are simply not suitable for human consumption. Well, likely any animal for that matter. But you'll be able to find much, much more information on those 2 threads as well as book suggestions that should help you get up to speed.
 
foofighter said:
I really do agree with that, and that the 5 I put there was so off base was a bit of a shocker, and a good reality check. And yes, I should have known better. I should have done more of the research on my own first, before posing the question. I should not have taken the advice in the buckwheat videos, without checking it for myself. I (or Starlight) should have gotten EE certification before even considering including it in the retreat (which we were planning to do, by the way). And many more things.
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foofighter, imo, it wouldn't have been a shocker if you and starlight actually practiced what you were about to preach. At the minimum, you would have to be present on the forum and follow the discussions. And that's not an extraordinary expectation, wouldn't you agree?

Imagine preparing for a conference on programming. You plan on making the main focus on Java, but then think that maybe you can include other languages in order to spice up your presentation, like Python and Ruby for example. But there is a problem. Not only both these languages are not your forte, you don't really bother learning the basics or keeping up with the new developments, except for a few reads on related blogs. But still, the idea of presenting a more knowledgeable image is quite appealing to you, so you go over some old documentation you had on the topic and compile a list of features, and then post it on the Ruby forum and ask for a feedback.

Now, can you imaging what the response would be? At the minimum it would be: Dude, you are so over your head, it's embarrassing.

Not only it would clearly show your incompetence, it would also show lack of respect for the subject and for the attendees. Think about it, would you want to participate in the conference where organizers include all kind of barely prepared and deeply ignorant lectures just to inflate the image and make it appear more than it is? Who would benefit? Certainly not the attendees.

Ok, so in the programming world inflated ego and ignorance may not lead to really dire consequences, except for maybe being a laughing stock of the community. But even then, your high self-image may protect you from that. But here, when much serious issues like people's well being, their chance at personal development, etc. are at stake, you have a chutzpa to "plan to do" something so out of touch and damaging. Especially, when you know that you don't have the knowledge, and when providing false information is worse than no information at all. Seriously, dude, that is beyond embarrassing and shows an enormous lack of respect for the topic and the hard work the Chateau and everyone else is doing.

In the above quote you give a list of several things you should have done before thinking to include breathing and diet topics in the retreat. But what is really scary, that you didn't have a doubt that you can pull this off, except for maybe tweaking a thing or two here and there. Our life and everything in it is a reflection of who we are, and in your place, I would be seriously concerned that this is how I run my life.
 
foofighter said:
For the breathing, we are now left wondering whether even we ourselves do it correctly. Given all that you said, is it advisable to try it on our own without first having gone to a live training? All we have is the video plus the audio from Laura. With all of those potential problems it sounds like that might not be enough.
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This question is redundant if you think about it, really. The doubts come from your own lack of familiarity with the program and associated topics, but you're avoiding having to face this in yourself by trying to find fault in the program and the way it's presented. Do you see that?
 
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