TSA pat downs

[Lilou]

For the past week or so, every time I turn on the computer, all I see is "horror stories" about someones recent pat down at the airport. These are the people who opt out of the "naked scanner". They talk about the humiliation, the groping, and how they felt assaulted.

The MSM is giving this way too much attention, as far as I'm concerned. A pat down involves being touched, period. I cannot see how someone can equate this with an assault. At least they are not being asked to take off their clothes and they are not getting a "cavity search". Now that - would cause some serious humiliation!

I can only see this headed in one direction - eventually - no one will be allowed to "opt out" of the naked xray scanner. I am quite relieved that the opt out is available. And while I don't prefer to be groped by a stranger, it certainly is better than being zapped by potentially harmful radiation.

But with all this complaining....the opt out will become a thing of the past. :(

 

[go2]

The MSM is giving this way too much attention, as far as I'm concerned. A pat down involves being touched, period. I cannot see how someone can equate this with an assault. At least they are not being asked to take off their clothes and they are not getting a "cavity search". Now that - would cause some serious humiliation!

Well, uninvited touching men, women, and children's genital area sets off alarm bells in the instinctive motor center predator detection function. How would you like to have your pubic area touched(felt) to see if you have a bomb in your panties, Lilou? We are entering a public transportation system, not a high security prison. Many people who fly are articulate and capable of public outrage. The MSM even hears the uproar.

The TSA is promoting the invasive screening justified by the "underwear bomber" who was escorted onto a plane in Amsterdam by a well dressed man. The "underwear bomber" did not have a passport. The airport security in Amsterdam is operated by an Israeli Security Company. The "backscatter x-ray" units are manufactured by a firm with ties to Michael Chertoff. He was the first head of Homeland Security. His family is connected to Israeli intelligence.

So, I object to being forced to undergo "backscatter x-ray" screening or alternatively a patdown of my genital area so Michael Chertoff can become a billionaire. Check out the following link, Lilou. It isn't security that is a problem, it is psychopaths who are corrupting airport security so they can profit. If we object to the real physical threat of radiation, we are forced to allow TSA to feel our genitals for bombs.

_http://www.wcvarones.com/2010/11/tsas-nude-scanners-former-homeland.html

[mod: quote fixed]

 

[Laura]

I don't see it that way at all. I think it is a good thing that people are getting hostile. They should have been getting hostile about a whole lot of things a long time ago. Of course, why the MSM is even publishing it is a good question. My guess is that they are trying to do damage control since such reports get put on youtube and go viral.

You just never know when the US public is going to reach the "Let them eat cake" moment... and either the psychopaths are trying to drive them to it or they actually think that it will never get to that point.

 

[Hildegarda]

People can tolerate a lot, especially is gradually conditioned to it. But revolutions happen when people's dignity is taken away. And this is what the scanning + grope search does. "They" are really blind not to see it.

 

[anart]

People can tolerate a lot, especially is gradually conditioned to it. But revolutions happen when people's dignity is taken away. And this is what the scanning + grope search does. "They" are really blind not to see it.

Yes, it's the 'nothing left to lose' moment - and they're approaching it at rapid speed.

go2, your response to Lilou seems a bit emotionally loaded, is there a reason, other than your anger at the intrusive screening?

 

[go2]

go2, your response to Lilou seems a bit emotionally loaded, is there a reason, other than your anger at the intrusive screening?

Yes, I intended to include the emotional context of the airport security experience for those who might not have personally been "patted down" by TSA. Is this inappropriate?

Edit: I just reread my post above and I apologize to Lilou for personalizing the post. It was not necessary to the thrust of outrage at the more and more aggressive intrusion into our lives.

 

[The rabbit]

What I find annoying (understatement) is that the u.k. does not allow an opt out so that we have something physical to be annoyed at. Unless you can now opt out at u.k. airports?

 

[Nević Nenad]

I think that person who have airport scanners and roentgens as one of the big problems in his/hers life can consider him/her as a very lucky one, maybe even spoiled. But, thats just my thoughts on that.


Was wondering lately what is general "mood" in the people in other countries. I can tell for mine where situation seems to be more and more close to rebellion.

What is interesting that people are not anymore divided in groups, where every group had their little different opinion than other groups. It is not that the students have their own opinion, workers their own, pensioners their own, and the politician use to exploit that a lot. It seems this time that there is one general opinion towards "government, institution, state" (and state as such really does not exist, its just couple of criminal gangs with masks, which is getting more clearer every day).

That opinion would be: "get lost, live us in our piece, we don't want you, no we don't wish another voting, get lost of our eyesight". That silent rebellion (but which getting louder every day) can be heard everywhere now.

Also, it is interesting that "the government" seems to be totally blind for that, and every step that they make, makes them more unpopular and closer to the edge.

I'm also wondering does the earthquake two weeks ago, and big meteor last week, have to do something with that, restrained anger, discomfort . . . energy bursting.

 

[pete02]

What I thought was also another good point to mention about the patdowns was what about people who have been sexually molested in their past? This patdown thing is certainly going to bring back some very ugly memories for them and then there's the children. Not that I have any but when I think of my precious little nieces being felt up by some stranger just because they wanna come visit their grandparents it doesn't seem right. I know what you mean though Lilou, I have had the same impression that after some time the government might just say no more patdowns and everyone has to go through the scanner but the airlines have also mentioned the fact that they've had a lot of cancellations due to people not wanting to be harassed and when it translates into money, they might reconsider. At least I'm hoping.

Fwiw, I think that Laura's suggestion of flooding them with lawsuits might be the only way to get the point across.

 

[Hildegarda]

I know what you mean though Lilou, I have had the same impression that after some time the government might just say no more patdowns and everyone has to go through the scanner but the airlines have also mentioned the fact that they've had a lot of cancellations due to people not wanting to be harassed and when it translates into money, they might reconsider.

Doing away with patdowns would be opening for numerous lawsuits. They cannot guarantee that scanners do not cause health damage and that privacy violations and abuse of scanner images absolutely will not occur. All these can and will be brought forward in a court of law, as well as psychological damage from having to be virtually stripped in a scanner by people with abuse history, and loss of livelihood by people who feel they can no longer air travel for their job requirements. Same thing may very well happen with the opting-out being in place, but this would be a much quicker way.

 

[Buddy]

And while I don't prefer to be groped by a stranger, it certainly is better than being zapped by potentially harmful radiation.

I agree with your concerns and your choice. Personally, I'm having a hard time knowing that public tax money is paying people to sit on their bottoms all day, looking at naked images of real people and kids - or groping/fondling them all day long. Sort of like legalizing porn ogling and forced-consent sexual molestation.

It's just flabbergasting to know that someone even wants that kind of job.

I actually wonder what these TSA employees say to kids and adults who want to know what they do for a living. You can bet they don't tell it exactly like it is.

 

[Gonzo]

Hi Lilou,

I'd be interested in knowing how you would feel upon having someone pat you down up to the genital region? One way to imagine it would be to see your mother having her breasts pressed to ensure she wasn't hiding something there and then, as the pat down proceeds downward, see the attendant press into the sides of her groin and immediately above it. We wouldn't want anyone doing this to our parents or our children anywhere else and yet we are supposed to not get upset when we have to choose between the lesser of two evils; having our DNA ripped apart via the scanner or have someone other than our doctor search our genital regions.
Another thought is, when considering the next steps, cavity searches. How far will it go?

I wonder what the consequences of having people either have their genetic makeup ruined or have themselves traumatized by invasive searches.

When will the people collectively admit the line has been crossed? Perhaps you are witnessing the early moments of such a realization.

It would be fair to put it into context as well. It's not just the groping. It is the groping as a long list of fear mongering, terrorizing, rights removal and violation and a growing sense that everything of true value is being taken away.

Regarding MSM coverage, there are some things they can't ignore or what little credibility they have would disappear quickly. Pack mentality drives each news agency to make sure they aren't the only ones not reporting a story. But fewer staff dollars means less original and in-depth reporting, thus generating an echo chamber in the newsmedia.

There could be an agenda to make the issue so bad that the pat down gets removed and everyone has to get scanned. But the outrage of the enhanced pat down signifies to me that people would rather a less intrusive pat down as they don't want to go through the scanner.

If the scanner were the only option, I doubt people would take it laying down.

This could also be a way of killing the aviation industry. If people want to avoid the security, they will have to opt out of air travel and the industry will falter.

Gonzo

 

[Buddy]

Remember all those Asch and Milgram social conformity experiments that clearly demonstrate a social reality (read: social trance)? People will conform with the behaviors of a group, even when everyone in the group is wrong and even when the individual knows he/she is right - that is, until someone speaks up, and then another someone, then another.

Something generally happens to break the trance first - a lone dissenter, for example, or a rising general discontent. Of course, the larger dissent can be just as mechanical and just lead to another trance state, but there's an opening, or window of opportunity for people to wake up a bit more and "tip the boiling cauldron" of their anger which is composed of those elements Gonzo mentioned, OSIT.

I guess we're sort of at the lone dissenter stage (plus one or two) at the moment and will have to see which way things go from here?

 

[Lilou]

The whole thing is like as a double-edged sword - nobody wants to be groped, but I see the backscatter x-ray as potentially very damaging health wise - so it is choosing the lesser of two evils. I remember reading about the naked scanners in early 2000's, and people were outraged, saying it would never happen. And lo and behold, scanners are in place, without much fuss.

I had to submit to a pat-down leaving Paris last month (set off the metal detector because I was wearing silver jewelry) and I did not find it too bad. I'm not sure I could say the same thing if this had happened in the USA. The female agent seemed bored, did check under my bra, but did not feel my "crotchal area". I suppose the experience has a lot to do with the attitude of the agent who's feeling you up.

I've read many accounts from people who have opted out. I can't quote exact statistics, but it seems that only a "handful" of people do so. Most, like cattle being herded, go thru the x-ray. That's why I was so surprised to see all these news stories about the pat down. Are they being overly aggressive on purpose? Trying to force compliance to the scan?

So even though I don't like it, I'll take the groping over the radiation. And Gonzo, you're right when you say "how far will it go?" Are cavity searches next? Revolting just to think about it.

 

[Gimpy]

This could also be a way of killing the aviation industry. If people want to avoid the security, they will have to opt out of air travel and the industry will falter.

With the recent reporting of sky weirdness, I'm thinking more and more that the PTB are angling to make air travel impossible, unless its military. The real cynical side of my brain looks at the whole pat down scam as another way the psychopaths get a cheap laugh and even cheaper thrills in forcing people to be groped or body scanned. They try to make money and have their 'fun' every way possible.

I haven't flown since long before 9/11. I doubt very much I ever will again, barring some miracle.

This whole issue punches a great big button in my head. It takes effort to be reasonable, especially when it comes to toddlers who scream when a stranger wants to fondle her/him for 'security reasons'.

I lose all sense of preservation, strategic enclosure, and no longer care if there is any way I'll avoid jail, tasering, or a bullet to the head. Every part of me goes from zero to ice cold rage and all I can think of is MAKING IT STOP RIGHT NOW. Pipe breathing is not cutting it, btw. To keep the keel even, I clean clean clean things, and make sure I do what I can with petitions and FB circulation of articles.

(And I apologize to anyone who is tired of seeing me rant on FB about this issue, its one of those things that literally drives me nuts.)