UG Krishnamurti

[Buddy]

Yeah I read it, obyvatel, but I may have automatically given the benefit of doubt since I didn't think having a non-functioning emotional center and having an honesty to say "I don't know" is mutually exclusive. I guess it depends on what we take them to be talking about when they say 'emotional ties' and I probably should have adopted the typical assumption, but was reluctant to.

For example, there are a few people, my wife included, with whom I have deep emotional connections. These are characterized by seeing and understanding some things about each other, about others and the world the same way and at a similar depth. With those people I have deep conversations and the emotional bonds (love, to me) are strong. Such relationships take time to develop and so you don't get to know very many people well enough to have those kinds of relationships. People often and routinely do not know their own spouses and children very well at all, but some pretend otherwise. Domestic violence, divorce statistics and elderly neglect by family members seem to tell the real story, however.

For me, relationships with ordinary people in daily life seem to have feelings of various strength associated with them, but it's often hard to decide if these feelings are actually emotional ties or just the ever-changing, fluctuating valuations that simply come with the territory, so to speak. There is also a very active 'commercial sentiment industry' in the West, especially in America. The kind of love or emotional ties promoted by this industry, always is accompanied with 'products' said to symbolize and 'show' the love, but this industry has been seen for what it is by others before me and the products it promotes follows on the heels of what has sometimes been called the love that was manufactured to sell pantyhose and roses. These are the special emotional ties, the special love that can be rationed because it's scarce. "You only get one chance in life to find your true love or to fall in love", etc and etc.

In consideration of all the above, I hope it might be clearer why I was a bit reluctant to speak with any assurance about UG's emotional center, but I do respect your knowledge. It's probably the way you said and I just screwed this up as usual. I didn't seem to be distinguishing emotional dependence anywhere.

 

[David]

I only just got a taste of UG through some of his interviews and a snip of information here and there, One thing strikes me he seems to have a little fire under the hood, so to say, and for a guy who has some issues with emotional centre, where dose this fire come from, the sex centre perhaps, I don’t know.

Though I wonder if he said, that he had no emotional ties to his family, as a way to protect them, given the malignant hatred that sometimes spews from pathological individuals of religious groups, who can be quiet in your face, death threats and so on, which I can only assume he received, given the nature of what he was attempting to do... in his own ‘unique’ way.

Also his mother died during child birth, though maybe mistaken information, if true that can effect ones emotional centre, and one of his sons died of cancer, and he was allegedly there for him through the whole thing, maybe I’m mistaken, why would he do that, if he didn’t care ?

And why he did not cheat on his wife, if he had no emotional ties to her, would he feel bad if he did, would he feel bad for his wife... it all seems a little contradictory.

His dislike for doctors might stem from the loss of his son, and maybe the mother he never new...?

Though perhaps Obyvatel is correct at reading it at face value, and UG seemed consistent right up the end, though that in itself, might be indicative of somebody who became stuck or had to suffer right up to the end having crystallised in the wrong way, that being the ‘calamity’ if that was, what that was.

I don’t know, just my thoughts/noise... FWIW

 

[obyvatel]

There is a comment by Gurdjieff: "If you want to lose your faith, make friends with a priest."

In my experience, this is often though not always true in the context of spiritual teachers as well, especially if you take a critical rather than a passive attitude towards them. Taking a critical attitude means seeing the teacher for what he/she is. It means taking into account his/her weaknesses and human failings and evaluate what they teach in that context. This would enable us to take what is useful and leave what is not.

Many people tend to take the all or nothing approach towards teachers. Such an attitude either makes Gods/Goddesses out of human beings or arch-villains/psychopaths. In milder terms, either they "smell like roses" or they are "merde" to paraphrase Gurdjieff.

I have not studied UGK extensively, other than the "Mind is a Myth". He had some useful things to say. My purpose is not to detract from them. Yet, what I saw as a psychological failing on his part I highlighted.

I think this is a point worth making in this general context, since I am going to post something about the other more famous and more revered Krishnamurti, Jiddu. Jiddu's writings as well as efforts towards education has generally been useful to people. Yet, he had a dark side as well, as expressed by Radha Sloss, daughter of Rosalind and D Rajagopal. Jiddu never married and was supposedly celibate. Yet, there were rumors of a long-standing romantic relationship between him and Rosalind, which soured towards the end. While it would be unfair to paint Jiddu as a fraud because of that, it would also be unwise to sweep this side of his character under the carpet to keep his image intact. So for anyone interested, here is an interview of Radha Sloss and how she viewed Jiddu Krishnamurti, whom she looked upon as a surrogate father. I have not read her book but in the interview she comes across as a balanced person with psychological insight.

http://www.tricycle.com/the-shadow-side-krishnamurti

 

[Buddy]

There is a comment by Gurdjieff: "If you want to lose your faith, make friends with a priest."

Thanks for that quote. It had the effect of reanimating my interest! That's one of those 'subjective sayings' of Gurdjieff's father that G talks about in MWRM. It's one of a list of such sayings and one of the few that follows the format: "If you wish to [ blank ], make friends with [ blank ]. Another example: "If you wish to be full, make friends with your mother-in-law.

I knew Gurdjieff's humor was understated and his father is where he got it, apparently. Also, in this section where he talks about his father, G describes his own upbringing. To read what 'G the boy' was put through while growing up, one might get the impression the father was cruel, but G himself said his father loved him even though he apparently showed no mercy in his discipline. G directly credits this 'no mercy' thing for his having survived the hardships and struggles he had to endure up to this point in his life.

So for anyone interested, here is an interview of Radha Sloss and how she viewed Jiddu Krishnamurti, whom she looked upon as a surrogate father. I have not read her book but in the interview she comes across as a balanced person with psychological insight.

http://www.tricycle.com/the-shadow-side-krishnamurti

I was interested, so I read it. I'm not that good at judging 'balanced', but I would say that Ms. Sloss loved this surrogate father and is mainly concerned with dismantling a false image. In that effort, she gets my applause.

Jiddu does appear to be an interesting study in a different way although his path seems to follow a more common pattern. Jiddu might use his own words to say something that both Gurdjieff and UG might also say in their own words, like:

"To divide anything into what should be and what is, is the most deceptive way of dealing with life."
~Jiddu Krishnamurti

...and he might get some ovation, because what's wrong with that? Today, though, we have a lot of bright and creative young folks around who would like us old'uns to realize that we might be getting memef*cked when we take stuff out of context as if it's some standalone truth. The simple fact being that "sayings in a vacuum" can be building blocks of "image" and Jiddu definitely had image.

Jiddu also started out with that whole "don't put me on a pedestal" schtick, but according to Radha Rajagopal Sloss, Jiddu apparently reached a point in his life when he didn't want to give up the lifestyle he had become accustomed to, so that previous teaching kind of slipped into the past. Jiddu apparently had better sense than to shoo away his means of support.

Given the choice of entertaining one of the two Krishnamurti's in my house, I'd choose UG. I'd rather have someone down to earth, who is not image-conscious and who could bust my chops in a good way than one who will talk sweet, yet have to be concerned about his image slipping.

Note: If my comments above come across as "unfair" or whatever, I'll apologize to you. I'm certainly not here to offend anyone.

 

[Catalyst]

Here is what's on my mind (call it what you may).

I wanted to share a picture to express what I see from what "I" (I hope a unified "I"). Laura's expression from a recent you-tube video "I" experienced.

Branching off because of choices.

I hope it works. I mean, it get seen?

 

[Merlin]

UG was a controversial person and his views demolished the hold that fake mystics had on the naive and gullible public.

Rather than trust websites, I would recommend an excellent Book by Gay Author "Robert Carr" which is much more illustrative, unbiased and highly revelatory in the workings of the mind of UG Krishnamurty. . .

God Men Con Men​

Front Cover​

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Author: Robert Carr ​

Robert Carr's unusually engaging life has spanned a good part of the 20th century and continues on into the 21st: Artist, magician, television producer, world-traveler, spiritual explorer and teacher, restaurateur - Robert has not simply dabbled but delved deeply with sensitivity into the many facets of his checkered career. His story reveals details of the deep impact made on his life and person by the two great spiritual exponents of our era, J. Krishnamurti and U.G.Krishnamurti. A tale told with scorching honesty and colloquial informality, it is a must read for anyone on life's secular and spiritual journey

- From the back cover​