United Airlines drags passenger off plane to make room for employees

Ant22 said:
snip~
I came across this article that shows airlines can legally overbook flights. And in case of overbooking the only option for the flight to take off is to remove passengers from the flight.

As physically abusive as the airline's behaviour was, I can imagine airlines do cover their back with appropriate points in their terms and conditions that allow them to get people off the flight.

If I read the article correctly, the flight was not actually overbooked, they needed to make room for 4 of their employees that had to be flown in to work.

[quote author=SoTT]
Sunday's incident was shared online by fellow passengers who said the airline randomly selected customers to give up their seats and get off the plane so its own personnel could make it to work the next day. [/quote]
 
Arwenn said:
Ant22 said:
snip~
I came across this article that shows airlines can legally overbook flights. And in case of overbooking the only option for the flight to take off is to remove passengers from the flight.

As physically abusive as the airline's behaviour was, I can imagine airlines do cover their back with appropriate points in their terms and conditions that allow them to get people off the flight.

If I read the article correctly, the flight was not actually overbooked, they needed to make room for 4 of their employees that had to be flown in to work.

[quote author=SoTT]
Sunday's incident was shared online by fellow passengers who said the airline randomly selected customers to give up their seats and get off the plane so its own personnel could make it to work the next day.
[/quote]

Sorry for the confusion!! I came across articles saying that Flight 3411 was actually overbooked.

Like this one for example: https://www.rt.com/usa/384230-united-airlines-passenger-dragged/
A United Airlines passenger was pulled out of his seat and dragged along the aisle floor after the airline overbooked a flight from Chicago to Louisville, Kentucky. (...)

Or this one: https://sputniknews.com/business/201704131052593859-united-airlines-passenger-incident/
MOSCOW (Sputnik) — On Sunday, a passenger was forcibly dragged by security officers from his seat aboard a United Airlines flight after refusing to leave the plane and give up his seat to an airline employee due to overbooking.

I guess if the flight wasn't overbooked the United staff could just take empty seats?

However, whether it was overbooked or not, there is not justification for the way the problem was handled.
 
[quote author=Ant22]
I guess if the flight wasn't overbooked the United staff could just take empty seats?

However, whether it was overbooked or not, there is not justification for the way the problem was handled. [/quote]

Yeah, there does appear to be conflicting reports about the over-booking issue. As you said above Ant22, there is no justification for their reprehensible behaviour. I so hope this incident is an example to them that they can't get away with treating passengers this way. Maybe I'm being too optimistic :rolleyes:
 
I read about this incident in a Chinese(Hong Kong) Newspaper, and if I am not mistaken, this whole incident occurred because of overbooking. Then they ran the computers to single out those that had to leave the plane(and the algorithm apparently ignored first class passengers) and they actually offered $400 compensation and free lodging first, which they then raised to $800. The doctor refused to get off the plane because he claimed he had to visit a patient at the destination the flight was headed to. He's also the one that claimed racism in that they allegedly selected him because of his Asian descent.

Anyhow, the Chinese Internet went wild over the racism issue, even though the airlines stated that they used an algorithm to single out the passengers that had to leave. So many issues in the world, and people still look for racial tensions everywhere...
 
Arwenn said:
(...) As you said above Ant22, there is no justification for their reprehensible behaviour. I so hope this incident is an example to them that they can't get away with treating passengers this way. Maybe I'm being too optimistic :rolleyes:

Arwenn, I must say I'm a bit optimistic that the whole event will bring some change too, but I have little hope the airline will realise that their treatment of another human being was absolutely outrageous. Given how hard they have been hit where it hurts, i.e. their wallet, passengers can have a bit more confidence this won't happen again. Businesswise, whenever I hear the "moral values" talk there's either money to be made or money to be lost.

And I must say I'm quite curious to see how long it will take them to bounce back after this.

Eulenspiegel said:
I read about this incident in a Chinese(Hong Kong) Newspaper, and if I am not mistaken, this whole incident occurred because of overbooking. Then they ran the computers to single out those that had to leave the plane(and the algorithm apparently ignored first class passengers) and they actually offered $400 compensation and free lodging first, which they then raised to $800. The doctor refused to get off the plane because he claimed he had to visit a patient at the destination the flight was headed to. He's also the one that claimed racism in that they allegedly selected him because of his Asian descent.

Anyhow, the Chinese Internet went wild over the racism issue, even though the airlines stated that they used an algorithm to single out the passengers that had to leave. So many issues in the world, and people still look for racial tensions everywhere...

Thank you for the testimonial Eulenspiegel! I came across a piece of news that mentioned the huge waves the United Airlines incident made in China as well:

The video has also sparked outrage in China as the man was overheard saying he was being profiled for being Chinese. The video was the number one trending topic on Chinese social media site Weibo on Tuesday, attracting more than 130 million views. Many people alleged that United were guilty of anti-Chinese discrimination and called for a boycott of the airline.
https://www.rt.com/viral/384326-united-airlines-trolled-ceo-defends-employees/
 
Thanks for further input hlat and Ant22 and no, there weren't any sources provided and I couldn't find any sources too. And regarding the overbooking it is all about money and making profits in case someone doesn't show up, also when it is a risky game being played on the passengers.
 
Looks like United has screwed up royally:

C9QzZ5VVwAAJrV4.jpg


If true, the real Dr. Dao may be set financially for life! I see lots of $$$s in his future!

doctor-222222222222.jpg


United Airlines Admits Controversial Flight Wasn’t Actually Overbooked

Peter Hasson for the Daily Caller reports, The United Airlines flight from which a passenger was forcibly removed to make room for airline employees wasn’t actually overbooked, a company spokesman told The Daily Caller, contradicting previous reports.

_http://dailycaller.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-admits-controversial-flight-wasnt-actually-overbooked/
 
JEEP said:
Looks like United has screwed up royally:

Not about the identification of Dr. Dao, apparently - appears to have been re-confirmed that they reported on the past of the correct Dao:

_http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-united-david-dao-20170412-story.html_
 
Yeah, they are greedy and this article describes it very good:

https://www.sott.net/article/348028-You-are-not-mad-at-United-Airlines-you-are-mad-at-the-United-States

And the response to the PR crisis was very revealing too, the CEO first defended their position and practices internally through a memo, looking arrogant and blaming the victim, only to do a 180 after United's stock value dropped and appearing on TV saying he was "very sorry" from the beginning, which is a total lie. And the media blitz against the passenger is just the icing on this unreal cake. Mad world indeed.
 
There seems to be some confusion about being denied boarding vs. being physically removed from an overbooked flight. I've flown a fair amount and gotten bumped a few times when I showed up late. It happens. It's usually not that big of a deal. In one case I got some kind of voucher for future travel, in another I was able to get on the next flight the same day. It's one reason why it's a good idea to show up early to the airport. As far as I'm aware, earlier check-ins are going to get a higher priority than later check-ins except when you factor in this higher value passenger nonsense.

Never in my life have I witnessed or even heard of this business of physically removing passengers from planes after they have boarded. This really doesn't make any sense to me. The airline should have computers keeping track of every change in status in the boarding process with every barcode on everything constantly being scanned. If they want to overbook and deny people boarding, fine, but they should be aware the second the seats on the plane are filled with bodies. If there was a time when they weren't, they should've made damn sure it wasn't going to happen again after that without it ever coming to this. Maybe I'm not understanding something about how airlines operate (employees show up late and aren't kept track of well?) but what is the possible justification for removing already-seated passengers as a regular practice?
 
The way I see it, they're just greedy and selfish. Guy paid for the flight, he was on the plane, and he had somewhere to go and refused to give up his seat. Now, I get that they wanted to get their employees to another flight so that flight isn't delayed/cancelled, and I get that this would be a pretty annoying inconvenience for a lot of people. However, this was the airline's mistake. They could've easily offered more money until someone agreed - pretty much guaranteed that before they reached $5k someone would've agreed. Having the person assaulted because your own mistake is causing you some inconvenience is completely unwarranted. You made a mistake, you do your best to fix it - beating someone up is just a way to save your precious money and avoid having to own up to your mistake, while simultaneously depriving someone of all human dignity and severely injuring them, which was apparently the option they chose over spending more money. Ultimately it was a decision - offer more money, cancel the other flight, or beat the shit out of someone, and they simply decided the latter works out the best for them. Offering money (and to them a few grand is chump change) was easily the least costly option. But human dignity, health, and life is worth less to them than the few grand it would've taken to fix their mistake.

Whatever their terms of use say, I guarantee they don't say "and we will use any amount of force necessary to ensure compliance". This is what happens when "you're just following orders" like holy writ. Look the rules say we can "bump" someone, they agreed to the rules, which implies we can pretty do anything we want to ensure compliance including just about killing them. There is no stipulation for this of course, but these types of people have no concept of "reasonable" and "context" and "judgement call". This kind of bullshit happens all the time - cops pull someone over for speeding or broken blinker, the person questions some part of the protocol (like showing their license, whatever), but because rules say you need their license, they will just about murder you and taser you to ensure compliance. Never does it occur to them that protocol for speeding tickets is never justification for injuring someone like they just murdered a family. These are authoritarians who don't care about how trivial and ultimately insignificant the situation, they have no value of human life or ability to assess what is reasonable in a situation. If you so much as steal a pen you can be beat half to death, because the punishment doesn't have to fit the crime - you're just following the rules, the rules say take the pen back, and if you have to murder the person and their family to get it back, I guess that's what it takes, right?

So yeah it's nice this got national attention, and it would be neat for something to change and the ridiculousness of it to be the catalyst. But with the people's and media's attention span, people will move on and forget it in 3.. 2.. 1... and done.
 
Dr. Dao was seriously injured & will need surgery:

Lawyer: Man dragged off plane will need surgery

CHICAGO (AP) ” The passenger dragged from a United flight lost two front teeth and suffered a broken nose and a concussion, his lawyer said Thursday, accusing the airline industry of having “bullied” its customers for far too long.

“Are we going to continue to be treated like cattle?”
attorney Thomas Demetrio asked.

The passenger, Dr. David Dao, has been released from a hospital but will need reconstructive surgery, Demetrio said at a news conference, appearing alongside one of Dao’s children. Dao was not there.

The 69-year-old physician from Elizabethtown, Kentucky, was removed by police from the United Express flight Sunday at Chicago’s O’Hare Airport after refusing to give up his seat on the full plane to make room for four airline employees.

Cellphone video of him being pulled down the aisle on his back and footage of his bloody face have created a public-relations nightmare for United.

One of Dao’s five children, Crystal Pepper, said the family was “horrified, shocked and sickened” by what happened. She said it was made worse by the fact that it was caught on video.

For Dao, who came to the U.S. after fleeing Vietnam by boat in 1975 when Saigon fell, being dragged off the plane “was more horrifying and harrowing than what he experienced in leaving Vietnam,” Demetrio said.

Demetrio, who indicated Dao is going to sue, said the industry has long “bullied” passengers by overbooking flights and then bumping people, and “it took something like this to get a conversation going.”

“I hope he becomes a poster child for all of us. Someone’s got to,”
the lawyer said.

Early on, United CEO Oscar Munoz added to the furor when he apologized for the incident but accused Dao of being belligerent. Later, Munoz offered a more emphatic mea culpa, saying, “No one should ever be mistreated this way.”

He promised to review the airline’s policies to make sure something like that never happens again, and said United will no longer use police to remove bumped passengers. The airline also said all passengers on the flight would get a refund.

In a statement issued immediately after Thursday’s news conference, United insisted that Munoz and the airline called Dao numerous times to apologize. Munoz himself said on Wednesday that he had left a message for Dao.

But Demetrio said neither Dao nor his family had heard from United.

Demetrio said his client accepts the apology. But the attorney questioned its sincerity, suggesting United acted because it was taking a PR “beating.”

The attorney was unable to say precisely how Dao was injured. Dao didn’t remember exactly what occurred because of the concussion he suffered, Demetrio said.

Pepper said her father and mother had been traveling from California to Louisville, Kentucky, and had caught a connecting flight at O’Hare. After what happened, Dao “has no interest in ever seeing an airplane” and will probably be driven to Kentucky, Demetrio said.

United had selected Dao and three other passengers at random for removal from the plane after unsuccessfully offering $800 in travel vouchers and a hotel stay to customers willing to give up their seats.

The three officers who removed Dao have been suspended from their jobs at the Chicago Aviation Department.

At a City Council committee hearing Thursday, aldermen ripped officials from United and the department about the episode.

“There are no excuses,” Alderman Michael Zalewski said.

John Slater, a United vice president, said that bumping passengers to accommodate airline employees happens infrequently, and that federal guidelines requiring rest for crew members made it necessary to get the employees on the Sunday flight to Louisville.

The Aviation Department’s roughly 300 officers guard the city’s two main airports but are not part of the regular Chicago police force, receive less training and cannot carry guns inside the terminals.

“To be quite frank, Chicago employees should not be doing the dirty work for the friendly skies airline,” said Alderman Ed Burke, who played video of Dao being removed.

Aviation Commissioner Ginger Evans told the committee that the officers had the authority to board the flight but that what happened on the plane is being investigated.

“Are we going to continue to be treated like cattle?” Well, YES - the traveling public rolled over & played dead right from the get go w/ TSA intrusive screening & total disregard for the 4th amendment. If you're going to act like cattle, why be surprised to be treated as such? How different is a taser from a cattle prod?
 
Russia Bans United Airlines From Russian Airspace

A United Airlines flight was ordered to stay out of Russia by authorities on Wednesday, just days after a doctor was violently dragged from a flight.

A United flight from San Fransisco to Shanghai, China was diverted away from Russian airspace for “diplomatic reasons,” according to reports from passengers.

The unscheduled diversion forced the flight to refuel at Tokyo’s Narita airport.

United has come under severe criticism over the last few days after a doctor was dragged from an overbooked flight by airport security after having had his teeth smashed for not cooperating with the airline.

Whilst the reason for the diversion hasn’t been made clear, some people believe it may be to do with the tense relations between the U.S. and Russia over the recent false flag attack in Syria on April 4.

In 2014, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev discussed the idea of banning Western airlines access to Russian airspace.

Dailycaller.com reports:

Flight logs tracked on the website FlightAware show that the flight from San Francisco was diverted at 7:32 a.m. Eastern Standard Time.

The flight, which normally takes less than 13 hours, was delayed nearly three hours. It left San Francisco’s airport at 2:10 p.m. local time on Tuesday and arrived in Shanghai at 8:22 p.m. local time.

A spokesman for United Airlines confirmed to The Daily Caller that the flight was re-routed and that because the airplane “required a longer route,” it was forced to refuel.

The spokesman declined to comment on whether diplomatic concerns were at play. He said that United is in communication with air traffic control, including the Federal Aviation Administration, to determine the reason for the diversion.

A spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration sent this statement after publication:

“A U.S. flight was routed around Russian airspace Tuesday. These kinds of reroutes are routine and most often

http://investmentwatchblog.com/russia-bans-united-airlines-from-russian-airspace/
 
Savage: Ju-Jitsu Instructor Gives A Defense Lesson Against United Police!


This would be interesting to see in practice on a plane! Of course, one might not live to benefit from any lawsuit against the airline.

southwest-we-beat-the-competition-not-you-18738880.png


Can I get the above on a t-shirt to wear the next time I have to fly? Wonder how the TSA would like it? Might be wise to wear some extra padding . . . and a helmet. :P
 
meta-agnostic said:
... what is the possible justification for removing already-seated passengers as a regular practice?

None. Zero.

JEEP said:
Russia Bans United Airlines From Russian Airspace
http://investmentwatchblog.com/russia-bans-united-airlines-from-russian-airspace/

Maybe Russia didn't want a false flag blown up United flight over Russia.
 
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