US Marine shares pictures from Iraq

[anart]

Ahhh, I see. I did use the word 'instead' - so ?

Why would your support of anyone or anything else negate or 'balance out' your support of the military in Iraq? (I suppose another question would be why you've taken two posts to protest the manner in which you've been questioned about this instead of answering the questions asked.)

In other words - are you unaware of what you are supporting - I mean - REALLY what you are supporting in Iraq - not what the handouts or flyers tell you that you are supporting? ( hard candy for the children??!? - do you even read the news?? ) If you are fully aware of the mentality and actions that you are supporting and that is what you choose to do, then that is absolutely, totally and completely your choice, of course. I just find it a bit difficult to swallow the idea that you're doing it out of compassion when your support is maintaining and furthering not only a mindset, but the day to day implementation of death, torture and destruction against innocent human beings.

Whether you like the way I ask the question or not - I would be remiss to not ask it.

 

[Peto]

Hi Mamadrama,

I apologize for stating that you only sent support to the party that needs it the least because I don't know if you also sent support to the Iraqi people or not. But think about it for a moment. I hope you will find the absurdity of sending care packages to those who commit the atrocities in Iraq. Whether the atrocities are done consciously or through pressure or order doesn't make much difference. You seem to bury your head in the illusions that either the troops (or at least those you adopted) just sit in the desert and play cards, to use Anart's phrase, or that they are not responsible for their acts because they are tricked, pressured, or ordered to do it by the psychopaths in the government. Reality is that they DO commit the crimes and they ARE responsible for it.

 

[vinny]

Yikes, what a gruesome story but thanks for sharing it, shizo. I just "adopted" a plattoon of 20 soldiers in Iraq and will be sending them care packages several times a month.

And as I said before, you have made an assumption without any facts. You have assumed that instead of sending support to other peace organiztions, etc., I am sending support to U.S. soldiers. And this is not the case.

OMG! mamadrama, you are on the defensive here? can't you see anything wrong in what you've done?
you've been around on the forum long enough to have some understanding of just how evil the US agression in Iraq is. and you support it??!!!!

...or... you don't support it? I'm confused. you seem to be contradicting yourself a bit here.

is it possible that you are just realising the implications of what you did and are in a bit of self-denial about it?

 

[Keit]

And as I said before, you have made an assumption without any facts. You have assumed that instead of sending support to other peace organiztions, etc., I am sending support to U.S. soldiers. And this is not the case.

I don't want to assume anything, but it still doesn't clear to me: do you send support to US soldiers in Iraq or not?

 

[Ruth]

Please tell me how you have decided that I am "only supporting the party that needs it least" or that I don't "send money to the Palestinian government or relief agencies, or to Iraqi relief agencies - or to anti-war or disabled veteran rehab organizations?" And to then conclude that you "find it very telling that instead of those options, (I am) sending support to the aggressors - that is what we are, Laurel, the aggressors." You do not know if I am doing this or not. But you have hastily assumed that I am not and you are wrong.

You are supporting the aggressors by 'adopting' them. If you do not support the war, why support the people who CHOSE to take part in it? At this point in time, they are not victims because they chose to be there. You should not be supporting a persons choice if it wrong. This is not the same thing as interfering with their choice - just not supporting them.

It would make more sense to me to 'support' people who are more aligned with your no-war philosophy, or at least, take another look at your reasons for supporting soldiers. If you 'need' to 'support' aggressors, then these can be found (home grown) in any prison population. There are far more worthy people to encourage and support than people who chose to do bad things - or to take part in bad things (ie. wars).

I would thoughly recommend further self analysis of your reasons for supporting these people.

 

[Peam]

[quote=“Mamadrama

 

[mada85]

Mamadrama, I cannot understand how you can support these murderers. There is a very strong disconnect in your post between your abhorrence of war and your support for the perpetrators of war. On the one hand you are outraged by the Marine’s enjoyment of his ‘trade’, he even laughed about his ‘duties’, while on the other, you are sending support to those very same marines who are carrying out the acts, the results of which you saw in the photographs.

As a parent myself I can understand that you would want to support the child soldiers, for that is what they are, far from home in a strange country and so on, but they are not victims. That is buying into the government lies about this war. You do not yet have conscription in the USA. These ‘kids’ chose to join the army, and that means they have made the choice to submit to the army’s demands. They also chose to carry out the kinds of atrocities you saw in the photographs. They always have a choice.

Join the Army
Learn a trade
Travel the world
Meet interesting people
And kill them…

The army exists for one purpose, and that is killing and war.

To be very clear, have a look at this section of the Cass site http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/warning1.htm.

Can you really continue to support those who fire the bullets, the missiles and the shells, throw the grenades, wield the batons, drive the tanks? There are plenty of Iraqi children in the photographs. Do you send them candy? They need something a bit more than candy, though, don’t you think? Some of them might like to have their mothers or fathers back, let alone their limbs or eyes.

If all the soldiers on the ground in Iraq decided to stop, lay down their weapons, and say to their commanders, ‘NO MORE KILLING!’, how long do you think the war could continue? They always have a choice. And so do you.

 

[mamadrama]

Thank you all for sharing your opinions and voicing your disapproval. I was asked why I am sending care packages to some soldiers in Iraq and I answered because of compassison. This answer does not satisfy you. I told you why I hold compassion for the soldiers and you do not agree with my decision. Is there anything more to say? I understand your position but I do not currently at least, agree with your assessment of my actions. If that changes, I will let you know. In the meantime perhaps I will start a thread on the nature of compassion.

 

[ark]

What you are doing is not a compassion, it is a support. Some of these soldiers are enjoying what they are doing (they kill and rape). Some not. There are predators and there are their victims. Some of these predators may even suffer from what they do (at least part of them). Would you then support the predator rather than the victim? You call it compassion? Compassion would be sending packages to the victims - and there are, unfortunately, a lot of them. You may try to say: but the soldiers are victims as well. But these soldiers have to obey orders and they obey them. And you feed them, so that they can obey orders better, so that they know that what they are doing is being supported. This is the RESULT of what you do. And the victims will know that they are NOT being supported, that no one cares for them. And this is your message. I do not know whether it comes from not thinking or from premeditation.

Additionally the fact that "American people support our army" will be used by the propaganda machine. You are helping this propaganda. Your help to one of the killers may result in the death of hundredths of innocent people. And you call it compassion?

 

[Laura]

I would say that if it was real compassion that it would include the victims of those soldiers as well. Why don't you adopt some Iraqis?

Meanwhile, if you really want to help those soldiers, educate them. Send them information that informs them that they are committing war crimes and that you really care about them and their souls and aren't just into giving token material support that will only fuel their descent into darkness.

 

[Ryan]

Thank you all for sharing your opinions and voicing your disapproval. I was asked why I am sending care packages to some soldiers in Iraq and I answered because of compassison. This answer does not satisfy you.

Perhaps it is you who are not satisfied with the responses received? Perhaps your ideas about what compassion is, are simply wrong?

I think that George Bush would say that you are a shining example of compassion and that the rest of America should follow your lead.

 

[CarpeDiem]

When a secret button gets located and pushed, what happens next follows in many cases pretty much the same script. But I better abstain from running in front of my pants here, as I sincerely hope today day being not the ‘rule’, but that rarest exception of a small window opened, so if you will see it you can use it in the future. Mamadrama, I think you have been offered a precious moment, a gift from the universe, to see today and to experience your predator coming out from the shadowlands from some secret tiny place inside yourself in the open. You are in the defensive – that’s a predator is out. You could see it and use that rare opportunity if you decide to act in favor of your destiny, yours, not that false possessor of your identity that usually is well-hidden. Today universe has shown to you an acting predator. I still can’t have even the smallest glimpse on mine. That means only that tiny beast of mine is elaborate-elaborate, and skillful predator and I will have, just maybe, to literary torn upside down whole mountains to locate that tiny little beast inside of me to force it come out in the open and challenge it. You remember the libretto of Tchaikovski Nutcraker? A beautiful abundant palace, lustful Christmas festivity, lots of presents hanging on richly decorated New Year tree, godly food…. But deep underneath that never ending celebration of masks, under the pavement, an army of little aggressive mice warriors with their Lilliputian mice-King rules the whole palace from a secret unknown location. Boy is transformed into a Nutcracker, a wooden toy who then has to go into the worst troubles to fight Mice King and his army, gets killed, then reanimated, and finally forces a mice king out of his sanctuary into the open, kills King and beats mice army, then miraculously restores his 'human-ity. The word i used here is not humanity, but chelovechnost', that in transliteration from russian would mean 'human temporal lobes - eternity'. I just wanted to let you know that little detail.
You think who is that mice king? You can use that to your advantage to fight for your destiny.

 

[PopHistorian]

<< most of them have found themselves in an aborrent situation which was not of their own making nor was it often of their own choosing. >>

In my own words now I'll reinforce what some other have said. I consider the word "army" in the military sense, and all of its synonyms, to be insidious euphemisms. What the word describes is an organized group of hired killers. Each one, immediately upon joining, is trained in homicide. This is what they willingly join. They are hired to kill and they willingly give up their rights to say "no." Wherever our hired killers are sent, they are sent to engage in homicide or to present the threat of death to people.

To be presented with the threat of death is something no one wants. To present someone with the threat of death is therefore to be a hypocrite or to be without empathy or any sense of fairness. They condone homicide by example. What if everyone in the media had to say "our hired killers" instead of "the marines," etc.?

I know people who are against the Iraq slaughter but maintain that invading Afghanistan was justified and the right thing to do because the Taliban were so bad. There is so much arrogance and elitism inherent in such a statement that it boggles the mind. I say, "Well, then how bad would things have to get in the USA before you would welcome an invasion by the Afghan military, unasked, so that they could exterminate our leaders and place us under their form of government? Suppose things weren't bad for you at all, but the Chinese government decided that they are, so they are going to invade the USA to liberate you. Is that okay? If you have any sense of fairness or empathy, then it is."

Doing is condoning -- otherwise it is unfair. Just turn the tables on any situation and think about it. If empathy exists -- if you can put yourself in someone else's shoes, then you must be willing to accept what you dish out. How about Congolese troops, or Indonesian? Does an invasion by people of a different majority race and religion somehow make it harder to contemplate? Important questions, OSIT.

The USA is ten times the size of Iraq, with ten times the population, each person (soldier) with ten times the wealth. It's like a 30-foot giant with a machine gun against a 2-year old with a stick. It is revolting.

 

[Z...]

I think you have been offered a precious moment, a gift from the universe, to see today and to experience your predator coming out from the shadowlands from some secret tiny place inside yourself in the open. You are in the defensive – that’s a predator is out. You could see it and use that rare opportunity if you decide to act in favor of your destiny, yours, not that false possessor of your identity that usually is well-hidden. Today universe has shown to you an acting predator.

So nicely said Carpe Diem

You are in the defensive – that’s a predator is out

I think I need to remember this forever

 

[Joe]

Please tell me how you have decided that I am "only supporting the party that needs it least" or that I don't "send money to the Palestinian government or relief agencies, or to Iraqi relief agencies [...] You do not know if I am doing this or not. But you have hastily assumed that I am not and you are wrong.

As a US citizen, if you sent money to a genuine Palestinian relief organisation you would be imprisoned for "supporting terrorism". So you are probably not doing that. If you are sending money to Iraqi relief organisations, you are sending money to the US government.

Laurel, I am not condemning you for your lack of awareness of the reality of the situation about which we speak, but your lack of awareness of it appears to be great indeed. Perhaps it is time to open up and reassess rather than 'digging in'.

Joe