US Marine shares pictures from Iraq

[sHiZo963]

Additionally the fact that "American people support our army" will be used by the propaganda machine. You are helping this propaganda. Your help to one of the killers may result in the death of hundredths of innocent people. And you call it compassion?

It IS used by the American propaganda machine. I can't count how many bumper-stickers I've seen with the yellow ribbon that says "Support Our Troops" - even more than that red-white-blue ribbon that says "God Bless America." When the Iraq War started, whole neighborhoods in the suburbs where I used to live would tie huge yellow ribbons to trees along the streets to "show our support." Today, now that the majority of Americans DON'T support the war in Iraq, these same people are still whole-heartedly "supporting our troops" there. Clearly, to NOT support our troops would be un-patriotic and who wants to be labeled a "terrorist"?

I know people who are against the Iraq slaughter but maintain that invading Afghanistan was justified and the right thing to do because the Taliban were so bad. There is so much arrogance and elitism inherent in such a statement that it boggles the mind.

I know people here who already FORGOT about the invasion of Afghanistan! I mean, it's not really in the news as much as Iraq and now Iran. Maybe this is on purpose...

The USA is ten times the size of Iraq, with ten times the population, each person (soldier) with ten times the wealth. It's like a 30-foot giant with a machine gun against a 2-year old with a stick. It is revolting.

The impression I got from the Marine guy is that this kind of discrepancy in power actually makes doing his duty that much more "fun." It's like playing a video game with cheat-codes for him: god-mode on, unlimited ammo, allweapons on, etc. In fact, I did hear/read somewhere (I've no idea of the source, but it does seem logical) that because of the popularity of FPS (first-person shooter) games, soldiers now require LESS training and are more adept at handling weapons and shooting accurately as the games have given them the practice in hand-eye coordination, not to mention exposure to the "war environment". It isn't such a far-fetched assumption to say that at least some of the more psychologically deviant youths join the army to get more "real-life action" that they SO enjoy when playing FPS's. The propaganda machine has been amped up so much here that the Army has begun hosting/sponsoring school-related events on my university campus and some of the commercials they air and booklets they pass out CLEARLY are meant to resemble the "video game experience". The army has even PUBLISHED some quite popular FPS video games!

The way I see it: this whole deal is an example of Lobaczewski's "negative selection" in the military. Not only do people join the military voluntarily (in the US) - which already "selects" for those who might have a predisposition to kill - those who die, die and those who get psychologically damaged by the experience don't get treated (see "To Iraq & Back"). Who's left? Those who enjoy the experience enough not to get killed or psychologically damaged (like the Marine I met) probably get promoted because of their "dedication" and "efficiency."

It's been ~6 years since we entered Afghanistan and Iraq. Over 3000 US soldiers have died in the latter conflict and, according to "To Iraq & Back" as quoted by rs, "the Veterans Administration is actually handling 200,000 Iraq war injuries when the Pentagon official tally is something like 24,000," many of which are internal injuries to the skull. In that time, I shudder to think what the psychological "composition" of the military has become - I'm willing to bet that it's MUCH higher than 6% psychopaths. We've given these humanoids big guns and training in homicide. We "support" them and their "sacrifice," too, which gives them more incentive to kill. When and if things get so bad here in the US that people actually start revolting and stop "supporting the troops", all the government has to do is label us "terrorists" and this killing machine will be sent in to deal with us... My "shocking" experience with the Marine that I shared in my first post was a slap in the face, indeed, and it made me realize the horrible reality what I have written about thus far. If I'm being overly paranoid, however, please let me know.

So, NO - I certainly do not agree to mamadrama's support of the troops. The forum members have pretty much stated what I wanted to say on that subject.

 

[henry]

And I notice that she still hasn't answered the question as to whether or not she is sending money to the Palestinians or other victims of the aggressors.

The whole propaganda meme that has arisen in the US about making a distinction between being against the war but "supporting our troops" is such an obvious manipulation! As long as the people are supporting the troops, that is support for the war. But it gets wrapped in some patriotic horsehockey.

And I somehow doubt that if a package of materials informing the troops what was really going on in Iraq was sent, that it would get through.

During the Vietnam war, there were groups of soldiers themselves who began organizing inside the Army against the war. There is an excellent documentary on it called "Sir, No Sir!" for those of you who weren't around then. If Laurel wants to help, maybe she could get in touch with such groups if any exist today. Help the soldiers that are against the war to spread the word.

 

[domi]

In fact, I did hear/read somewhere (I've no idea of the source, but it does seem logical) that because of the popularity of FPS (first-person shooter) games, soldiers now require LESS training and are more adept at handling weapons and shooting accurately as the games have given them the practice in hand-eye coordination

I would say that the accuracy is definitely true for me - I went through a period of playing first person shooters - when last year I used a shotgun for the first time to shoot skeet. To my surprise I was very good at it. So good in fact that my hosts had to get out the very difficult to shoot clay disks to make it any sort of challenge.
I can only attribute this to having played video games since I am from a country/background without a gun culture.

It worries me that reality and virtual reality are blending together for some people. It's not just video games, but also tv and printed media (through digital illusion) that are doing this. Already I am noticing that young people (in the US) nowadays are living very differently - more "plugged in" - then I was when I grew up. In fact, yesterday a couple I work with told me they are worried that their kids (4, 6 and 8) are going to spend too much time in front of the computer instead of doing art, music, physical excercise.

Henry:

You may not be far from the truth with the reference to complete programming. It is most likely a be a multi-facetted approach through tv's, computers, cell phones, music devices, etc. Otherwise "they" wouldn't get the coverage that is needed.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

mamadrama, I think you are probably convinced that your motivation is one of compassion. However, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." Even if we accept that a small minority of US troops are in fact psychopathic/characteropathic, consider what effect your support may have on one of those psychopaths. Can you imagine your hard candy being used to lure an Iraqi child into a position to be abducted, raped, and murdered?

I think your compassion would be better expressed if it is married with intellect. Support troops that are firmly AGAINST the war, and support VICTIMS of the war. Do not support those that support the war; not even those who are "against the war" but still follow orders.

 

[Mr. Premise]

It can often take several years or more before the effects of what soldiers do in war really affects them. At first, even the ones with consciences can dissociate from the reality of it, so we can't assume they are all psychopaths.

But military training IS programming, and they are programmed to kill, no doubt about that. But after they have done the killing for the programmers, years later those who are not genetic psychopaths will have nightmares and bad psychological problems as a result of what they did.

 

[manitoban]

The whole propaganda meme that has arisen in the US about making a distinction between being against the war but "supporting our troops" is such an obvious manipulation! As long as the people are supporting the troops, that is support for the war. But it gets wrapped in some patriotic horsehockey.

I've been hearing the same sort of thing here in Canada about Afghanistan. I've heard several people I know say, "I'm totally against us being in Afghanistan, ( and in the same breath)," BUT I totally support the troops." It makes no sense at all, and its really disturbing how many people sure do seem to be buying into it.

 

[rs]

The whole propaganda meme that has arisen in the US about making a distinction between being against the war but "supporting our troops" is such an obvious manipulation! As long as the people are supporting the troops, that is support for the war. But it gets wrapped in some patriotic horsehockey.

I've been hearing the same sort of thing here in Canada about Afghanistan. I've heard several people I know say, "I'm totally against us being in Afghanistan, ( and in the same breath)," BUT I totally support the troops." It makes no sense at all, and its really disturbing how many people sure do seem to be buying into it.

You know, its funny. In order for this current dynamic to play out, it was essential that we had people screaming "Baby Killers" at the soldiers returning from Vietnam. Kids were being literally dragged off to war (there was the draft at the time) and returning having made some terrible choices. The US went through this whole internal dialog about communism, the role of the USA and the horror of war as well as personal responsibility.

The results of Vietnam was this huge psychic wound on the collective consciousness where Old Fat White Men sent boys to war and we spit on the boys instead of the Old Fat White Men. Somewhere along the path to today, we collectively made the decision "never again will we blame the soldiers".

From the personal responsibility aspect, the current military is strictly voluntary, so you are not simply dragging someone off to war like the English navy "impressing" drunks in bars into service. These people sign up, presumably knowing what they are in for.

Still the wound persists.

In addition, the impeachment of William Jefferson Clinton was another essential piece of the puzzle. Bill is yet another psychopathic leader, just vastly more polished than Dubya. [A brick would be more polished.] When he lied under oath about having an affair (which as Gore Vidal points out, not too long ago, this is "what gentlemen did") the attack dogs came.

The public perception has become that Bill was made the "victim" of a politically motivated attack, not that he did anything really wrong. After all, the best president in our modern lifetime (JF Kennedy) had a veritable stable of willing nymphs.

The intense politicalization of the impeachment process of WJC left yet another psychic wound on our collective consciousness. The side effect to this is to make it essentially impossible to impeach Dubya. He could walk out onto Pennsylvania Avenue with a loaded Uzi and shoot up a McDonald's and nothing would happen.

So we have the confluence of two programs, can't blame the soldiers, can't do anything about the Old Fat White Men.

Its odd, two massive meme programs (among others) put into place over the course of decades, with a demonstrated mastery of the psychology of large groups. (To say nothing of the friction between Christianity and Islam which dates back centuries...) Its almost as if there are players in the background with a profound understanding, able to make plans across long periods of time and space, for reasons we do not fully understand...

 

[Mike]

Most of the soldiers are kids themselves, I believe the average age is 19 years old and most of them have found themselves in an aborrent situation which was not of their own making nor was it often of their own choosing. Many were pressured and/or misguided in their choice and many see it as their duty. They are the sons and daughters of this country and I would consider many of them to be victims of this atrocious war and our pathocratic government, too just as the innocents of Iraq are.

mamadrama,
They may have made the choice to join the military because of various problems and/or that they were misguided because of their ignorance, but sending them support of any kind is supporting this ignorance, supporting them being and keeping them a 'victim' of this ignorance. I've been on the receiving end of care packages and support in this manner only buffers a person against any doubts and questioning they have and enables them to ignore what their conscience might be trying to tell them.

 

[Alana]

...but sending them support of any kind is supporting this ignorance, supporting them being and keeping them a 'victim' of this ignorance. I've been on the receiving end of care packages and support in this manner only buffers a person against any doubts and questioning they have and enables them to ignore what their conscience might be trying to tell them.

I just bolded what Mike wrote mamadrama, i think it deserves the emphasis.

And i have a question, if i may: how does one end up "adopting" the soldiers? Is it something the church promotes, the community centers, the circle of your friends, or you just call a 1-800-adopt-a-soldier-or-more advertisement? I come from Cyprus and i don't really know how one gets to adopt "soldiers" in the US or anywhere. I am very surprised to hear this, and obviously ignorant.