Venezuela: Resistance or disintegration?

Deedlet said:
Eboard10 said:
IMO Hugo Chavez is just a really good actor, nothing more nothing less.

Well imo, Obama is more of an actor than Chavez. Looking at the big picture- is Venezuela better off since Chavez was elected as president? I'd say yes for at least 80 % of the population. 20 % being the super rich people, who aren't super rich anymore and are complaining that they're not super rich.

Then, let's look at Obama and his empty promises. He promised so much- and not only has he not come through with any of his promises he's deliberately gone against his own word. Case in point Guantanamo Bay.

Another person who is also more of an actor than Hugo is Ahmadinejad. He speaks out against Americans only to suit his own purpose. But doesn't care at all about the Iranian people. For instance, how he pushes this whole nuclear program, "it's Iran's right... " but he plays right into the hands of Americans and Israel.

In end you shall know them by the fruits of their actions.

Yes, they are all actors. Divide and conquer, like they say.
 
Here's a struggle between socialism and capitalism. Here programs are under way to give people tools that have enabled them to survive. Within the revolution some people do not care about anything, just want money wherever it comes and satisfy their own pleasures, this can be interpreted as consumerism, selfishness, etc. .. do not care that their actions affect others or the country. The food is hoarded, the main function is to create chaos regardless of the real problems that the country may have. Its vision is to come the U.S. and we "save" when you really want is to wipe us off the map, the poor as church here "are sinners who are down for what God put them where they belong, as sinners, those in high society are the representatives of God, the closer to god. " Here are people who believe that manipulated chaves has 666 on the back, because there is a "character" who claims to be "seer" and your page only talks about Chavez and predictions with the letters of David or da Vinci, I do not remember the name, and ufology WORSE! say that since Chavez became president, increase the UFO phenomenon and it is possible that Chavez has contact with them and has laser weapons. It's completely insane, there is no talk of those subjects and those who do, only stagnating.

People who believe in it, are people who come from a European culture deeply rooted in Christianity. It is well known that here we were an indigenous culture, believed in the connection with nature, with Mother Earth, with the soul. Their religion was imposed and killed in the name of their god.

Here's an example:

"Article 7 of the recently adopted Act on Education deals with secular education. "The State shall maintain in all circumstances its secularism in education, preserving its independence from all currents and religious organizations. Families have the right and responsibility of religious education of their children according to their convictions and in accordance with religious freedom and worship, under the Constitution of the Republic ". This article has been repudiated by the clergy. Do not forget that immediately after the earthquake that destroyed four fifths of our capital that 26th of March 1812, the Catholic Church called this phenomenon of nature as "a punishment from God to the Venezuelan people for having risen to the Spanish crown. Obviously, such a statement was made "in the name of God." Our Liberator and Father of the Nation Simón Bolívar, the priest replied saying such infamy, "Shut up fool" and alluding to the Spanish crown and the Catholic Church, he continued: "If nature is opposed to our purpose, we will fight it and we we obey. " Obviously, these words were regarded as heresy by the clergy. "

South America and countries that are not their slaves are not worthy to exist and are branded as terrorists, and invaded by "national security" of U.S.

Political leaders who do not support the revolution, are manipulated by the U.S. psychopaths can see the documentary "The War on Democracy", by John Pilger. It is the most complete documentary of our reality. the media block the positive, right now there is a channel called Globovisión, its director has been fired for other owners of private channels, because they just want money, there is a pyramid within capitalism, and betray themselves so here it has been lift the country while they go around fighting over money. We find the lies and continue to lie, is like the psychopath, the more you discover and just lie, they are fighting between them and their last option has been to call civil war, every time they protest their intentions is that someone dies, create a chain reaction of unprecedented violence, states that "This is politics" and always will be people who allow themselves to buy and willing to betray.

Private channels have taken off the air, it was to have called for the assassination of president and why do not satisfy the laws here have made contracts with foreign countries for not implementing laws here. Colombia has the largest army in South America and more than 700 U.S. military bases around the world, ignoring all the technology they have hidden. Venezuela is not military power, Venezuela has become proficient in giving life.

What's happening in Venezuela? There is a struggle of two systems, a system that respects life and a system that does not respect life. The only result will be more deaths, people who are fighting for their freedom are not willing to hand over the country if they kill Chavez, to some extent has created a dependency. Here one can talk of an exit ever "democratic". Every empire has its end but if we think of governments in the shadows ... the eagle has many nests.

There is no question of thinking only, "Chavez is not perfect," the main problem is that people do not act by themselves, they want everything the easy way and do not value anything. Chavez is one man and the country millions, the office of president is not solve the existential problems for people, there are plans to develop better quality of life and in turn some people there to destroy those plans.

In Honduras, many people died for nothing, you can talk about honor, freedom, etc.. the country will stay the empire and that was all that mattered. Everything runs its course, Colombia expects the signal to attack, they are not caused them know exactly what to do. United States each day is taking place globally to other attacks.

OTAN are theirs, the United Nations are theirs, not going to stop war, peace has never been a very lucrative business. They are pressing the UK to hand over the Falkland Islands.

Simply, they can not accept that people reclaim their freedom and right to live. They can not lose control over humanity.

Now thinking about organic portals, free will, everything is choice, actions and consequences is not easy ... but we also have our own struggles, fighting to awaken souls, to be free and most ironic, because we are ourselves so choose. There is a very large mirror out there.
 
May be I am generalizing, but to answer who is Chavez I would say - another figure at PTB chess game. I think what he is doing is just an illusion to make it seem there is an opposition in the world, or perhaps just a different perspective of how things should be played out.
 
What I like about Chavez is his vision, I've read that the criminal rate in Caracas is not the best, and what Galaxia has said about putting wrong people in important positions is a matter of concern. But at least he has ideology, vision and guts to say, do and live by his principles, which is much, much more of what can we say of other latin american countries like México. I like how the guy stands out, how he is very vocal and deeply concerned of the advances of the "fun and games" crowd. At the same time he may look like an amateur politician in the face of their more experienced and crafty opposition. But hey, thats fine with me, if the other guys look more competent but are in bed with you know who, I take a raw Chavez any day of the week.
 
agni said:
May be I am generalizing, but to answer who is Chavez I would say - another figure at PTB chess game. I think what he is doing is just an illusion to make it seem there is an opposition in the world, or perhaps just a different perspective of how things should be played out.

Hi Agni
I was wondering if you could provide some more data about your view please? It is easy to say such things, but what in particular would make you believe this?
 
Flashgordonv said:
agni said:
May be I am generalizing, but to answer who is Chavez I would say - another figure at PTB chess game. I think what he is doing is just an illusion to make it seem there is an opposition in the world, or perhaps just a different perspective of how things should be played out.

Hi Agni
I was wondering if you could provide some more data about your view please? It is easy to say such things, but what in particular would make you believe this?
Hi Flashgordonv !

What made me believe is looking back at the history of the world - it repeats :) Chavez is not doing anything spectacularly different that hasn't been done before. Look at the recent example of communist revolution in former USSR. Just a change of ownership over people. Things might look externally different, yet control prevails. I think this is just a matter of perspective.

With current state of politics as it is in the world, it's not about people, rather who gets control over people.

I would be glad to find out I am wrong.
 
I'm reviving this thread because despite not having updated it, I've been patiently trying to see what is really happening in my country all this time. I had previously said that many parts of government had been taken by psychopaths, yet the question remained to what degree especially when you hear the great humanist- pro-government propaganda, and especially Hugo Chavez speaking every day to exhaustion of imperialism. However in the last two or three years I saw so many outrageous things, that at least for me it is clear that we are in the hands of a group of insane. We were and still are about electric energy collapse for lack of investment in maintenance and repair of power plants and because the corruption took the money to build the power stations that had been planned.

On the other hand It were found at least 100,000 tons of food rotting in the ports of the country, food very needed, since we are importing almost 85% of these. Another big case of corruption.

But the straw that broke the camel is definitely what is happening in the Monagas state, where there was a large-scale oil spill on February 5 this year in the Guarapiche river that supplies drinking water to that state, for apparent lack of maintenance in the pipelines and the negligence by not starting the emergency work fast. There are no official numbers on the amount of oil spilled but is estimated at 100,000 barrels. The water service was shut off in the state and the governor tried to carry water through tankers, 450,000 people are affected. But there are elections for president in October, and this was not anything good for government, and they pushed for the resumption of water service only at two weeks of the spill. The state governor said no, because tests indicated that water was contaminated. The government tried to militarize the plant of water treatment (they couldn't). They (the government) through PDVSA said that they had made water analysis and that it was suitable, but even at 25 days of the spill those living near the river reported that the river stink, there was still oil floating in the surface and lots of dead fish. The ecological damage was enormous. A quarrel between the government party (PSUV) and the Monagas governor started, called him a traitor (he was also pro-chavez) and he was expelled from the party, only because he would not poison people, pumping contaminated water from the river when it was not yet ready, only for electoral reasons. There are also politics reasons because the 3 rd hand of chavez want the governorship of that state. But people is the last they think. Some experts said that it takes at least 6 months to the river for get rid of oil with the adequate treatment. Worst of all is that Chavez just came off the plane when arrived from a cancer treatment in Cuba, branded the governor as traitor for not obeying orders from above and pump the dirty water. Every day he talk about what a piece of sh... the Governor is for not to obey. For me this was the last mask in fall. It's been 50 days of the spill and it is until now that the governorship started to pump water to the purification plants that would have been damaged if it were used early.

It started to pop more problems with water from other states. In the capital where I live there is a reservoir that is covered 90% by a plant called bora. The government says they put it there on purpose! The reality is that government in its negligence left install "favelas" near the reservoir and its waste are yielding to the reservoir where we take water! Their waste produces ammonia that fed the plants, And they do nothing! Everything is a media sabotage according to them !. The amount of chlorine that are putting in water is terrible, I whip out the water tank of my building and I was choking on the fumes!. To make matters worse the government banned receives complaints about problems with the water!
Now they are reviving the famous Tascon list ,for which I and others have been excluded in several jobs, they are implemented it in a government college, dismiss teachers appearing in the list! Completely fascist.

Look at the difference in the reservoir that supply water to the capital after and before:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lerz/331676600/

http://www.6topoder.com/2012/02/20/situacion-actual-del-embalse-la-mariposa-falta-de-mantenimiento-fotos/

A PDVSA Manager trying to demostrate the water is fine to drink (look the color of the water):

http://www.talcualdigital.com/nota/visor.aspx?id=66772&tipo=AVA

The Guarapiche river:

http://www.petroleumworld.com/storyt12021401.htm

http://www.public-domain-image.com/public-domain-images-pictures-free-stock-photos/nature-landscapes-public-domain-images-pictures/river-public-domain-images-pictures/arial-view-of-oil-spill-polution-contaminants.jpg

http://forajidosdelanetwar.blogspot.com/2012/02/venezuela-salvemos-la-orinoquia.html
 
I guess that the bottom line is that only a group of people who have done extensive work on themselves, could effectively run a country, know when, where and how to act to prevent ponerization.
 
Yep! Ponerization in action! I think that even Chavez himself is aware of that, even though not completely especially with regards to those who are very close to him. Am thinking this because I've recently watched a video where he insists that people should own the revolution and actively partipate in its principles, as its primary goal is to improve their situation, and denounce those public responsibles who present themselves as revolutionnaires in their speech while doing nothing to improve the conditions of the people under their responsibility. Unfortunately the video was in spanish with french subtitles, but will post it anyway as soon as I'll retrieve it.

Wonder if a copy of Political Ponerology has finally been sent to him as discussed somewhere in the forum. It can be of great help to him and eventually his people if he can have the chance to read it as in my opinion, juging from the compassion he shows for human tragedies globally and his constant defense of the principle that life is sacred, he must be decent human who just can't do everything himself. This latter must explain his constant efforts to educate the others, whereas he often stops government meetings to explain his broader vision on a subject being discussed, insisting to his ministers they should ensure that the people understand that i.e. they sould spread the word.

And how many dictators or pathological leaders have let their opponents, who have imprisonned them after a coup, live in relatively decent conditions when back to power? It seems the Amiral who was involved in this coup is even free and has joined the opposition!

The guy has a noble vision and so far, seems to have been able to awake his people's hope with it. He still has to ensure that his people actively participate in materializing it instead of just watching him doing the work as it still seems to be the case currently.

IMO.

Edit: spelling
 
I believe a copy was sent to him via someone who claimed to know him and this was done a few years ago. Whether he actually got it or not, or read it if he got it, I can't say. Apparently not.
 
Marcus-Aurelius said:
And how many dictators or pathological leaders have let their opponents, who have imprisonned them after a coup, live in relatively decent conditions when back to power? It seems the Amiral who was involved in this coup is even free and has joined the opposition!

The guy has a noble vision and so far, seems to have been able to awake his people's hope with it. He still has to ensure that his people actively participate in materializing it instead of just watching him doing the work as it still seems to be the case currently.

IMO.

Edit: spelling

Caivs Ivlivs Caesar, and maybe a token mention to Hitler for his relative mild handling of his subordinates. But whereas Caesar was a true rebel with a real possibility of impact, Chavez is a breeze in the wind managing a long since conquered country. These former colonies are not independent. They just make them think they are to reduce cost and increase productivity of the province.

Chavez is a champion of socialism. Whether he knows it or not, that is playing right into the hands of the elite and their global vision. That should give you a clue to, if not motivation, his purpose.
 
jhonny said:
I know that most journalism is disinfo, but I have many friends who tell me that happens in venezuela.There is no food and everything will be state.

The "no food" situation resembles what happened to Salvador Allende in Chile. In that case is was a lockout by the big producers and industrialists, who were and are the real owners of the big private ranch that is Chile.
Venezuela, before the oil boom, produced all it needed to eat. The oil bonanza killed coffee production, cattle raising, and other sources of food production. The people from rural areas flocked to the cities to somehow get a share of the oil industry jobs. That's how the slums surrounding Caracas came to be. So you might say that the traditional owners of the country facilitated the down spiral of Venezuela's economy by keeping the oil loot and not really sharing with the common citizen.
Chavez made an effort to revert this process, but he was torpedoed not only from abroad, but also by the displaced "elite" and later by his own entourage to an extent. He may have his faults too, undeniably, but I think that the main cause of his illness is the spiritual poison that surrounds him, also bad diet and, who knows? a little help from "planted" toxins in his food?
Another possibility is that he is being used by the PTB to maintain this permanent state of turmoil to keep Venezuela from deciding its own destiny.
This last hypothesis is especially valid for Argentina, kept in constant agitation and internal discord, first by the British and after by the USA because it was a country that had a real shot at escaping the PTB's control, and we know this would be "breaking the rules".
I could go on and on, but my prediction is that when Chavez dies, Venezuela will traumatically revert to the traditional "owners", to the further detriment of the common citizen.
 
I think Chavez may be a victim of his own decency and naivete. When there are rotten apples in the barrel, you have to get rid of them AND the apples immediately around them in order to preserve the remaining apples.
 
Laura said:
I think Chavez may be a victim of his own decency and naivete. When there are rotten apples in the barrel, you have to get rid of them AND the apples immediately around them in order to preserve the remaining apples.

I agree. I also think that he might be a victim of his own ego. He might have thought that he could fight the "wolves" alone, and with his power over Venezuelian resources. That adds to his naivete in general. Thinking he had more power than he really had, that he could make a bigger change, without knowing enough about psychopaths, nor finding a network and increasing awareness about this, was unfortunately doomed to fail. He took a country over, at a point where it was decaying super fast, and destroyed by the "Tiger", Carlos Andrés Perez, working with the US. It was no easy task. But perhaps his biggest mistake was to think he could do it, without the proper knowledge/network.
 
Hello, and Sorry for the delay...

A few weeks ago to deliver the letter to Deputy Aristóbulo Istúriz
Here you can read a little about him: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arist%C3%B3bulo_Ist%C3%BAriz

Given the circumstances corrupt during the update documents for my mother's pension after the death of my stepfather, we have established a small friendly relationship. And take the opportunity to deliver the letter.

Talk a little about Ponerology and part of psychopathy, we talk a little bit of Laura and I provide the address of the SOTT page and that don't forget investigate even go through the health section could help the president. Even I expect the answer, but he told me he will make delivery of the letter to the Vice President and Chavez. But I inform you, that you can send a copy in English, that he will deliver the book.


If there are many bad apples, and ingenuity is great, believe the psychopathic mindset change with a basketball ball. During my short conversation with Aristobulus, I could see that they know little or nothing about psychopathy. But he drew attention to the knowledge about the types of psychopaths according to certain attitudes I've encountered some opposition leaders. In fact, opposition leaders have commented on blog Ponerology, and used articles of Ponerology, against the government.

Much naivete has led to impunity. Election year and that the smallest act of some opposition political group, will be used as a means to attack Venezuela. People rely too much on this leader, too much emotional connection with chavez, too that there is already talk that this country without chavez has no direction, and maybe there is manipulation by religion, political strategies. In part of that chavez has taken full responsibility for yourself, is because those around him do not have the same vision and initiative and to the real intension of helping the country / people. Distrust, by infiltrates and should reduce the working group, and this small group, due to high workload, health problems are presented.

I do not know if you have noticed, but several government leaders have died from addiction problems of health, heart attacks or cancer. A few days ago a governor was killed, but the major cause of their deaths, has been about health. Murders are occurring in people with high enough profiles to create noise outside. Nothing good is weaving here, and the naivete has given way to this, believing that a psychopath is going to reflect on their actions. Well, right now there are many websites where you can see all Venezuelan news, both from the side as the other. I sent you this pages on any occasion, or will have people doing their research deeper on what happens here.

With regard to the letter, in the letter I wrote my personal data, however, you can send the book that I can safely deliver and they will receive. Sorry for the delay, but the opportunity was presented of those ways quite foreign to me.

if the book is in English, they can translate the book.
If you want some more direct means, I will wait for your opinions, permission and decisions.

see ya.
 
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