Venezuela: Resistance or disintegration?

[Alma.Innovadora]

I know that most journalism is disinfo, but I have many friends who tell me that happens in venezuela.There is no food and everything will be state.

The "no food" situation resembles what happened to Salvador Allende in Chile. In that case is was a lockout by the big producers and industrialists, who were and are the real owners of the big private ranch that is Chile.
Venezuela, before the oil boom, produced all it needed to eat. The oil bonanza killed coffee production, cattle raising, and other sources of food production. The people from rural areas flocked to the cities to somehow get a share of the oil industry jobs. That's how the slums surrounding Caracas came to be. So you might say that the traditional owners of the country facilitated the down spiral of Venezuela's economy by keeping the oil loot and not really sharing with the common citizen.
Chavez made an effort to revert this process, but he was torpedoed not only from abroad, but also by the displaced "elite" and later by his own entourage to an extent. He may have his faults too, undeniably, but I think that the main cause of his illness is the spiritual poison that surrounds him, also bad diet and, who knows? a little help from "planted" toxins in his food?
Another possibility is that he is being used by the PTB to maintain this permanent state of turmoil to keep Venezuela from deciding its own destiny.
This last hypothesis is especially valid for Argentina, kept in constant agitation and internal discord, first by the British and after by the USA because it was a country that had a real shot at escaping the PTB's control, and we know this would be "breaking the rules".
I could go on and on, but my prediction is that when Chavez dies, Venezuela will traumatically revert to the traditional "owners", to the further detriment of the common citizen.

Here was sabotage on the part of the far-right, about food. There will be a lot of misinformation but remember and that many people see only what they want to see too.

The most interesting is that behind every complainant of the extreme right, is connected to a network of confabulation of the CIA. Cases and plans that have years to be executed. These characters have much story to tell, the private news channels that surround each complaint, businesses, shopping centers and all are family, friends of the same gusty.

Many things are connected. So some people do not defend their country without having an objective information base on these networks to conspiracy.

People have been kept informed about the reality of the control system, through the manipulation of information and even television. This is practically a preparation against this type of crowd control strategies. The people are now better informed and if they can choose their own ability to think. To some extent, they can see how they have been mastered through hundreds of years. And these are not 12 years-Chavez, we are talking about manipulation of historical memory of a country and the world. Books have been opened to knowledge.

But they are heavily dependent on a leader, a single person.

Have strengthened this dependence. The emotional connection is so strong that this will be ungovernable if they decide a murder to chavez. But his health condition seems favorable because not it leaves option to blame. On one side is an opportunity for the extreme-right for the persecution to death without break of civil government sympathizers may occur AGAIN. The order was given on 11 April, during the coup, people who had neighbors who were allocated to the government, which were reported. And every day, they are willing to kill and no matter who are.

Yes, there are people who are not qualified for some jobs, there is some inefficiency in the management of funds, but they do not say that this management of funds occurs in companies where the person that it has the highest position is just a rotten apple. A person who is clearly not collinear with another group that are working to assist in the progress of the country and its people. There are many complaints due to this type of corruption, involvement of people there that are no longer afraid to be killed due to make a complaint, as in previous governments.

The country is politicized, because there is a group of individuals who want the poor people die, and one that is already tired of being isolated within their own country and not endure any more to keep those who are up in the pyramid. There is a great line that separates these individuals.

If a company affects the government will hire people who obivamente this with the process, they will not hire people of the opposite political camp to suffer sabotage, and yet "by the money dance the monkey", the opportunist will be present. And this applies to public and private companies. It has its advantages and disadvantages, but obviously when a public company you have your full benefits unlike other private companies that the department of human resources is fully inhuman.

What can you do in these circumstances? sometimes, dance to the band that plays...

 

[irjO]

I'm from venezuela and all i can say its that i was a chavez suportter but i'm not anymore! I cant stay in my own country because is very dangerous! The crime is very high, all the institutions are very politized, the justice system only acts in favor only for people who support chavez and if you are against him you may be under arrest in some cases! We are importing almost everything and the production line of food and minerals is very low! Hi speech is very negative he insults a lot, he only appears on tv and talks for hours and the 60% of the things he say are bad words and insults... I think he was a person with the best intentions when he got elected back in 1998 but now i think he is a pysopath playing against other psycopaths only to keep the game going! I agree with everything that galaxea2002 said!

 

[Galaxia2002]

The electioneering for Chavez re re election has finished and I really don't now what could be the outcome of this. Seemingly could be a technical draw, but there were a surveys war so they are not dependable. I hope we don't have skirmishes between groups.

Something that left me was said by Chavez this week:

“On October 7 is not a small thing at stake. There might be people who might be unhappy about our failures of our government, that we did not fix the street, that there are power outages, that the water is gone, that I got no job, that you have not given me my house. That may be true in many cases and I assume the self criticism of the government [...] whether the road was paved is not at stake, if I have have been given a home, or if I'm angry at and fighting with regional leaders. No, what is at stake is much more than that comrade: We're risking the life of the country. “

So in other words you can live in the BS, but vote me!!!

 

[loreta]

So what you saying is that Chavez is an hypocrite? That he did nothing for Venezuelans except enrich himself and his friends?

I really thought that Chavez was a good president. It is true that he is a good "speaker". He has the gift for words and what he say in his speeches is always, for me, like the words I wanted to ear. He is also, because his gift with words, surely an enormous manipulator. I wish to all the people of Venezuela that you will vote a good president... and that seems to me impossible. There is no one good politician in this planet, no one. But, in the situation of America Latina, you need someone who is capable to fight the USA! You have petrol, this is good for you. But be aware of politicians that want to be friends with the Empire.



Good luck.

 

[Eongar]

Recently commented in an article this:

Hugo Chavez. An excellent speaker, which for many means of counter is considered a true leader, attentive to his people, fighter, brave and above all anti-imperialist. What is not talked about is its capitalist lifestyle, luxurious and wasteful, when he says that being rich is bad. Or it has been reported several times for alleged embezzlement, drug trafficking and elimination of witnesses regarding PDVSA. Or that in his country for almost 40% of the population lives below the poverty line.

Recently, reading about how to operate this type of government, I found a comment that I found interesting:

Generally these types of leftists governments base their popularity questionable in an intelligent and segmented society. For one sector of society most marginalized will usually give some relief material initially. Then perform some demagogic practices for propaganda purposes that give a false sense of equitable distribution. In this way can make something good or good consequences, but the primary intention, usually not usually that. In this section of society is what keeps them at bay with "bread and circuses".

For more critical social sectors (often the case that this sector is less urgent than the previous material), we proceed in two different ways: first it "pulls down" trying to seduce and tempt him with "trifles" (eg luxuries easier access to previously inaccessible materials, such as technology). Those who do not fall into this trap stigmatizes them as right-wing opposition, and they close their possible access to be heard.

A wealthier sectors, usually linked to a liberal political movements, the battle is using the laws (which manages state at will) to make very difficult the task of "opposition" or alternative. Of course in this battle usually fall old hegemonic economic groups have for years manipulated the country's politics, but generally fall to be replaced by some of the same characteristics. "

http://es.sott.net/article/14537-Patocracia-y-la-deformacion-de-la-Realidad

A Pathocrat with another style, and the fact that antiimperialist is not meant to be a saint.

 

[Galaxia2002]

It is so true Alvaro, one of things it is causing more damage is the discurse "to be rich is bad" from the government , because they considerate to be medium class "the American dream" and that is imperialism and savage capitalism then "bourgeoisie". With that discurse, Chavez, family and high position politicians are living as riches and we live with poverty wages. They are known as the new riches of the country "Boli-bourgeoise" who buy houses in USA "the imperium" travel to Disney, Paris, China and give money to another countries. What hypocrisy! Their inefficiency is astronomical, even with more money that ever things are turning worst.

Argentina, where I was short time ago run the same way. Cristina seems to be copy the same Chavez script. Dollar control, people whose savings in $ were converted automatically in pesos (people loosing a lot of money in the change). Rising crime. The campora, which is an ideological group leaded by Cristina's ' son to indoctrinate schools. high inflation as Venezuela, Constitution changes for allow 16 year teenagers voting, slogans like "being rich is bad" while she declares that her fortune grow a third this year. When I was in Argentina for the first time three years ago, nothing of this was heard at that magnitude. People in Argentina are really upset. Any place I was I heard complains. At least Argentina produces and have excellent meat but Venezuela each time produces less and import more. I can't imagine what would happen when producing countries start to suffer more drastic climate changes. We will eat oil...

 

[aragorn]

Just saw the news that Hugo Chávez has won the elections. :)

_http://www.chron.com/news/article/Chavez-wins-third-re-election-in-tightest-race-yet-3925843.php

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — President Hugo Chavez won re-election and a new endorsement of his socialist project Sunday, surviving his closest race yet after a bitter campaign in which the opposition accused him of unfairly using Venezuela's oil wealth and his near total control of state institutions to his advantage.

Hours of late voting due to the mammoth turnout and a long wait for the results produced high tensions, including a Twitter hashtag called BitingNails that became the most popular in the country. Finally, fireworks exploded over downtown Caracas amid a cacophony of horn-honking by elated Chavez supporters waving flags and jumping for joy outside the presidential palace.

With 90 percent of votes counted, Chavez had more than 54 percent of the vote to 45 percent for challenger Henrique Capriles, an athletic 40-year-old former state governor who unified and energized the opposition while barnstorming across the oil-exporting nation.

 

[Joe]

http://es.sott.net/article/14537-Patocracia-y-la-deformacion-de-la-Realidad

A Pathocrat with another style, and the fact that antiimperialist is not meant to be a saint.

I have to take issue with your comments on Chavez in that Sott Focus Alvaro. Your argument was very weak and relied on a single web site "el ojo digital", which provided VERY flimsy evidence that Chavez was enriching himself. Are you really unaware of what the ONLY alternative to Chavez in Venezuela is? Maybe both you and Galaxia are missing the broader picture that Venezuela has been under constant pressure from the American empire, both from without and within, for 10 years.

 

[Niall]

I'm from venezuela and all i can say its that i was a chavez suportter but i'm not anymore! I cant stay in my own country because is very dangerous! The crime is very high, all the institutions are very politized, the justice system only acts in favor only for people who support chavez and if you are against him you may be under arrest in some cases! We are importing almost everything and the production line of food and minerals is very low! Hi speech is very negative he insults a lot, he only appears on tv and talks for hours and the 60% of the things he say are bad words and insults... I think he was a person with the best intentions when he got elected back in 1998 but now i think he is a pysopath playing against other psycopaths only to keep the game going! I agree with everything that galaxea2002 said!

It is so true Alvaro, one of things it is causing more damage is the discurse "to be rich is bad" from the government , because they considerate to be medium class "the American dream" and that is imperialism and savage capitalism then "bourgeoisie". With that discurse, Chavez, family and high position politicians are living as riches and we live with poverty wages. They are known as the new riches of the country "Boli-bourgeoise" who buy houses in USA "the imperium" travel to Disney, Paris, China and give money to another countries. What hypocrisy! Their inefficiency is astronomical, even with more money that ever things are turning worst.

Argentina, where I was short time ago run the same way. Cristina seems to be copy the same Chavez script. Dollar control, people whose savings in $ were converted automatically in pesos (people loosing a lot of money in the change). Rising crime. The campora, which is an ideological group leaded by Cristina's ' son to indoctrinate schools. high inflation as Venezuela, Constitution changes for allow 16 year teenagers voting, slogans like "being rich is bad" while she declares that her fortune grow a third this year. When I was in Argentina for the first time three years ago, nothing of this was heard at that magnitude. People in Argentina are really upset. Any place I was I heard complains. At least Argentina produces and have excellent meat but Venezuela each time produces less and import more. I can't imagine what would happen when producing countries start to suffer more drastic climate changes. We will eat oil...

Things may be rough in Venezuela and Argentina, but have you been to visit the alternative lately (USA)? I think you are way off the mark calling Chavez a psychopath. In fact, I think he's a leader with a conscience and is one of the last of a dying breed. He may not possess a fully developed conscience as we discuss it in the Work, but I think most would agree that he is conscientious in the sense that people generally understand it. Chavez has been trying very hard (and against impossible odds) to bring about positive change in Venezuela and across the whole region. For that he finds himself up against powerful forces within and without the country, forces who can manipulate the currency exchange rate at will, hit the country with oil sanctions, block basic consumer goods from reaching the country, make frequent military incursions into the country in repeated efforts to antagonise Chavez into a reaction and say whatever they want about him because they own (most of) the media... to say nothing of repeated death threats, failed and attempted coups and very suspicious bouts with cancer. Chavez is trying to protect you and the Venezuelan majority - poor working class people - from these 'sophisticated barbarians'. But you can't see that and instead join them in spitting on his name.

Sott.net is 'the World for People who Think', so let's please apply a little critical thinking before regurgitating right-wing authoritarian propaganda.

 

[loreta]

I'm from venezuela and all i can say its that i was a chavez suportter but i'm not anymore! I cant stay in my own country because is very dangerous! The crime is very high, all the institutions are very politized, the justice system only acts in favor only for people who support chavez and if you are against him you may be under arrest in some cases! We are importing almost everything and the production line of food and minerals is very low! Hi speech is very negative he insults a lot, he only appears on tv and talks for hours and the 60% of the things he say are bad words and insults... I think he was a person with the best intentions when he got elected back in 1998 but now i think he is a pysopath playing against other psycopaths only to keep the game going! I agree with everything that galaxea2002 said!

It is so true Alvaro, one of things it is causing more damage is the discurse "to be rich is bad" from the government , because they considerate to be medium class "the American dream" and that is imperialism and savage capitalism then "bourgeoisie". With that discurse, Chavez, family and high position politicians are living as riches and we live with poverty wages. They are known as the new riches of the country "Boli-bourgeoise" who buy houses in USA "the imperium" travel to Disney, Paris, China and give money to another countries. What hypocrisy! Their inefficiency is astronomical, even with more money that ever things are turning worst.

Argentina, where I was short time ago run the same way. Cristina seems to be copy the same Chavez script. Dollar control, people whose savings in $ were converted automatically in pesos (people loosing a lot of money in the change). Rising crime. The campora, which is an ideological group leaded by Cristina's ' son to indoctrinate schools. high inflation as Venezuela, Constitution changes for allow 16 year teenagers voting, slogans like "being rich is bad" while she declares that her fortune grow a third this year. When I was in Argentina for the first time three years ago, nothing of this was heard at that magnitude. People in Argentina are really upset. Any place I was I heard complains. At least Argentina produces and have excellent meat but Venezuela each time produces less and import more. I can't imagine what would happen when producing countries start to suffer more drastic climate changes. We will eat oil...

Things may be rough in Venezuela and Argentina, but have you been to visit the alternative lately (USA)? I think you are way off the mark calling Chavez a psychopath. In fact, I think he's a leader with a conscience and is one of the last of a dying breed. He may not possess a fully developed conscience as we discuss it in the Work, but I think most would agree that he is conscientious in the sense that people generally understand it. Chavez has been trying very hard (and against impossible odds) to bring about positive change in Venezuela and across the whole region. For that he finds himself up against powerful forces within and without the country, forces who can manipulate the currency exchange rate at will, hit the country with oil sanctions, block basic consumer goods from reaching the country, make frequent military incursions into the country in repeated efforts to antagonise Chavez into a reaction and say whatever they want about him because they own (most of) the media... to say nothing of repeated death threats, failed and attempted coups and very suspicious bouts with cancer. Chavez is trying to protect you and the Venezuelan majority - poor working class people - from these 'sophisticated barbarians'. But you can't see that and instead join them in spitting on his name.

Sott.net is 'the World for People who Think', so let's please apply a little critical thinking before regurgitating right-wing authoritarian propaganda.

I am very happy with this clarification, Kniall. I was feeling very lost even if I admire Chavez for his character and his rhetoric and also his language and attitudes towards USA. It is clear that I don't live in Venezuela and my vision is not very clear but I felt a little lost with all this dramatic vision of him. You can say that I should have a personal vision of him without the comments of anybody but sometimes I am not sure of my personal vision. And that is because I feel that my understanding is not complete. But in my gut I think Chavez is a sort of hero, very strong against the Empire and his way. And just seeing all the people voting for him is an answer.

Thanks.

 

[Eongar]

http://es.sott.net/article/14537-Patocracia-y-la-deformacion-de-la-Realidad

A Pathocrat with another style, and the fact that antiimperialist is not meant to be a saint.

I have to take issue with your comments on Chavez in that Sott Focus Alvaro. Your argument was very weak and relied on a single web site "el ojo digital", which provided VERY flimsy evidence that Chavez was enriching himself. Are you really unaware of what the ONLY alternative to Chavez in Venezuela is? Maybe both you and Galaxia are missing the broader picture that Venezuela has been under constant pressure from the American empire, both from without and within, for 10 years.

Maybe my sources were not the most appropriate. The intent of my article was to suggest that all is not gold that glitters, and it is wrong position on one side or another, but you have to see things as they are. I failed in my attempt, perhaps, but here I leave a question:

So then there is an American empire that conquered countries, and that victims are eg Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad and others, and that these are the good guys, with Ahmadinejad and Chavez? The anti imperialists are saints? No dark point in them?

After seeing some inconsistencies, such as with Iran, Venezuela or the same (presumably with a high poverty rate), there are things that do not fit me. I leave that clear in the article. The same day, maybe I was wrong in my comments on Chavez, but also I'm wrong with Iran, an ally of Venezuela while North Korea?

I would know. Maybe not express myself well, but my idea is that we can not trust anyone.

 

[Galaxia2002]

Well I see I need to re-focus and see the big picture again. I didn't said Chavez is a psychopath, it is still an open issue to me, but I have a more stronger suspects from some of their ministers and another officials, because one of the signs of to be under the rule of a psycho or a bunch of them is that the things started to paralyze, to decay and I have seen that with my eyes. I didn't see that on TV, My family, friends and I lived on, and we are affected by that each day. My aunt works in goverment and what she describes of how issues of bit importance are manage is nerve-racking. So I suppose we have to deal with that inner ponerized faction from goverment and opposition but at the same time we can do anything because exposing them will affect Chavez image.

Edit: spelling

 

[Mr. Premise]

From my experience with Latin America and Latin Americans, I've noticed that the educated middle classes have an instinctive reaction against populist reformers who work to benefit the poor. This sector (educated middle class) of society while dependent on the upper classes for their livelihood naturally would like to see a well functioning, liberal society open to opportunity based on merit. They see that threatened by populist reformers and promised to them by the upper class. But even if the upper class gave that to them, I doubt that the majority of people would benefit, given the deep structural stratification of Latin American society. And also it might not be in the interest of the upper class.

As for corruption, inefficiency and bureaucracy, that seems to be everywhere in Latin America whether under right wing or left wing regimes, so I don't think we can use that against Chavez.

I would just ask, who benefits? From the outside it seems to me that the poor, who are the vast majority, have benefitted under Chavez, which is why he wins elections. It may have made things more difficult or inconvenient for the middle class and is definitely threatening to the upper class and the United States, which is why I was glad Chavez won.

 

[Joe]

http://es.sott.net/article/14537-Patocracia-y-la-deformacion-de-la-Realidad

A Pathocrat with another style, and the fact that antiimperialist is not meant to be a saint.

I have to take issue with your comments on Chavez in that Sott Focus Alvaro. Your argument was very weak and relied on a single web site "el ojo digital", which provided VERY flimsy evidence that Chavez was enriching himself. Are you really unaware of what the ONLY alternative to Chavez in Venezuela is? Maybe both you and Galaxia are missing the broader picture that Venezuela has been under constant pressure from the American empire, both from without and within, for 10 years.

Maybe my sources were not the most appropriate. The intent of my article was to suggest that all is not gold that glitters, and it is wrong position on one side or another, but you have to see things as they are. I failed in my attempt, perhaps, but here I leave a question:

So then there is an American empire that conquered countries, and that victims are eg Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad and others, and that these are the good guys, with Ahmadinejad and Chavez? The anti imperialists are saints? No dark point in them?

After seeing some inconsistencies, such as with Iran, Venezuela or the same (presumably with a high poverty rate), there are things that do not fit me. I leave that clear in the article. The same day, maybe I was wrong in my comments on Chavez, but also I'm wrong with Iran, an ally of Venezuela while North Korea?

I would know. Maybe not express myself well, but my idea is that we can not trust anyone.

The point is not necessarily to support Chavez, but we do not want to copying promoting US propaganda and their mouth pieces.

 

[Joe]

Well I see I need to re-focus and see the big picture again. I didn't said Chavez is a psychopath, it is still an open issue to me, but I have a more stronger suspects from some of their ministers and another officials, because one of the signs of to be under the rule of a psycho or a bunch of them is that the things started to paralyze, to decay and I have seen that with my eyes. I didn't see that on TV, My family, friends and I lived on, and we are affected by that each day. My aunt works in goverment and what she describes of how issues of bit importance are manage is nerve-racking. So I suppose we have to deal with that inner ponerized faction from goverment and opposition but at the same time we can do anything because exposing them will affect Chavez image.

Edit: spelling

More than anything we are interested in an informed opinion that is as objective as possible. Since you live in Venezuela, we might expect you to be able to do that; to understand the nuances of the situation and give the view point of someone from the inside, taking all aspects into consideration. But perhaps you are not able to do that because you are too 'close' to the situation and are being influenced by propaganda.