video games

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
Nela said:
I love computer games, and I am still playing from time to time (how would I othervise experience joy of saving Galaxy from Dominators, or explore
mysterious world of Morrowind?). I am 36 year old, and certainly at any time have more important things to do than running around with light saber saving...whatever there is to be saved. But I believe that even when we grow up, we remain children deep inside and that childish playfull side needs to be expressed from time to time.

True, but the problem is that video games are not only dissociative and addictive, they are literally mind programming. You seem to be engaging in black and white thinking in order to protect this 'sacred cow'.

nela said:
And anything that can be used, can be abused as well. Books are not different. If you don't believe, just ask my mother. When I was a child, I was not social, I was very shy and I used to spend most of my time reading books. Everyday, all the time, to the point of exhaustion. It was running away from reality, it was addiction, it was living in virtual world. One day, my mother announced
that if I don't stop that, and go out to play with other children, she would take me to doctor. So, even though I found nothing of big interest outside, I have started to play with other
children, just to satisfy her and behave according to "normality" in order to relieve her anxiety (ha, external consideration of a 12 years old child!). Today, I am aware of my addictive side, and I am trying to control it.

It sounds as if you spend a lot of time dissociating. Argue for your limitations and you get to keep them.

nela said:
Sometimes, only sometimes, I am allowing myself to play computer game, spend whole day reading andneglect chores, duties and work or eat whole pack of chocolate. But I am only limited and demented 3D STS being and on a day when and if I manage to let go of all those traits and do only what should be done, I probably won't be here any more.

This is also 'black and white thinking' - there is a place between being 'addicted and dissociative' and 'not being here anymore' -- -- that place is where one can Work to become conscious. It's your choice, as always, but don't pretend that playing video games is anything other than what it is just because you do not want to stop.
 

mkrnhr

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Addiction to games is very vicious. When I was young I discovered my first strategy game. It became an obsession. I even dreamed of how to deploy troops in order to protect my town from the Romans! When I understood that it was a problem. I managed to stop it for sometime. Then I returned into this game consciously in order to "affront it" i.e. playing without loosing control. I am still playing sometimes (my avatar is one of the electronic characters i play with from time to time) but that incident taught me to keep carefull about not identifying with the game realm, at least trying to.
A rather dangerous aspect in games is being unaware of the global logic. Many games are about violence in certain situations. For example, the post-apocalyptic mad-max like logic of the survival of the most violent can be imprinted in a mind and can trigger same responses in similar situations. In stressfull situations most people act by instinct and part of that instinct is taught indirectly by this type of inductions (game realms, movies, books...).
 

Bobo08

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
[quote author=Anart]Argue for your limitations and you get to keep them.[/quote]

Yes, it's amazing what rationalization the mind can come up with to defend what it wants to believe in. And I'm speaking from personal experience.
 

Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Bobo08 said:
[quote author=Anart]Argue for your limitations and you get to keep them.

Yes, it's amazing what rationalization the mind can come up with to defend what it wants to believe in. And I'm speaking from personal experience.
[/quote]

Very true. And the "I'm a 3d STS being so what do you expect" schtick is one of the easiest rationalizations for why you just can't do anything other than dream that you are actually accomplishing something. Or so I think.
 
S

Skipling

Guest
Video games are incredibly addictive if you are succeptible. Been playing them since about 1983/4. recently sold my xbox after realising that I was ignoring my studies and totally forgetting myself in order to chain smoke and play fifa08. Utterly addictive megalomaniacal player/manager sim, if you are a football nutcase. I woke up recently in a minor way when , during a blokey chat in work about the travails of our respective clubs, I raised the point if many of these superstar players ever do the reverse, and have a chat about the contract negotiations coming up for our supervisor in Llanelli. Silly, I know, but it raised a proper laugh and woke us all up a bit. I think it was gonzo rock poet Jim Morrison who said that we give so much of our energies and emotions to symbols and machines, but in the reality of our own lives we are emotionally dead. So true. Been there, still there to a lessening extent.

Also, the sheer competitiveness of them is not clearly discerned by many players. I would suffer searing neck pains on the knot of my spine in despearate matches on the footie sim, although I made it a principle to never foul or get a player red-carded. And for what? To bag that crucial goal for my Liverpool or Swansea teams, in my little ego retreat of a virtual premier league. The sheer emptiness after winning leagues and trophies also. The elation of a triumph seemed to last less and less each season I played. I guess you grow out of fascinations, addictions, when they no longer fit you, or your aspirations. After all, you never do something when you become bored of it, unless you're a masochist. :/
 

Sleepy

The Force is Strong With This One
anart said:
True, but the problem is that video games are not only dissociative and addictive, they are literally mind programming. You seem to be engaging in black and white thinking in order to protect this 'sacred cow'.


It sounds as if you spend a lot of time dissociating. Argue for your limitations and you get to keep them.

Yes, I do spend a lot of time dissociating, tend to get totally immersed in whatever I do, like reading a book, thinking, especially if I have some problem or have to make a decision, I also daydream a lot and when I am in this state, I become unconscious of my surrounding. Is that it? After I have seen your post, I have been trying to find something about that on the forum, internet and Cass sites,but whatever I have found is more related to certain pathological treats that I have never experienced (I have never lost memory on what I have been thinking of or doing during dissociation, never experienced problem in my daily life, never used drugs or alcohol, been treated for any mental disorder and I have never been on any medications, nor have inclination to any of things mentioned.
I have found only this (so far)>

From http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/adventures155.htm

Ring suggested that childhood dissociation might be a technique that an abused person might develop to adapt to a difficult situation. Because these people become strong dissociaters from an early age on, they find it easier to enter altered states of consciousness. Ring then proposed that since people in such altered states might have a wider range of perception than ordinary people, they might be more "prone" to experience paranormal events than a control group who might not be able to perceive them.

I have never experienced anything paranormal.

From http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/chan2.htm

Depersonalization and Dissociation: An alteration in the perception or experience of the self. A part of the self becomes alienated from the rest and is perceived as "other." Or a sudden, temporary alteration in the normal integrated consciousness.

And I don't find myself here as well.

Can you please point me to some source where I can find more on dissociative state?
 

Sleepy

The Force is Strong With This One
Nienna Eluch said:
Very true. And the "I'm a 3d STS being so what do you expect" schtick is one of the easiest rationalizations for why you just can't do anything other than dream that you are actually accomplishing something. Or so I think.

Sorry, but I'm a 3d STS being with all that it implies and that is not rationalization, it is a fact. Part "so what do you expect" I have never said. Like most of the people here I am struggling to maybe become something better, starting with becoming fully operational 3d, less operational STS being moving to STO part as much as possible considering point on which I am in the cycle of learning. But I don't think that I can just simply by acknowledging that something is not good for me, immediately stop doing it, all of it, all at once, just like that. Can you?
Moreover, it is not known to you wether I believe (dream) that I have actually accomplished anything or not, and my post certainly do not contain information from which you can derive that opinion. So, you are assuming what I think or believe. Or dream.
 

Tigersoap

The Living Force
[quote author=Nela]
Depersonalization and Dissociation: An alteration in the perception or experience of the self. A part of the self becomes alienated from the rest and is perceived as "other." Or a sudden, temporary alteration in the normal integrated consciousness.
And I don't find myself here as well.
Can you please point me to some source where I can find more on dissociative state?
[/quote]

It's quite "normal" not to be able to perceive these states, only if you start paying attention to who you really are at every moment that maybe you'll start noticing that you're not totally there, always on the run in your mind so to speak.


Maybe you could read The myth of Sanity by Martha Stout

And maybe these articles can give you a broader perspective:

The transmarginal Inhibition

A structural theory of Narcissism and Psychopahty


Nela said:
Sorry, but I'm a 3d STS being with all that it implies and that is not rationalization, it is a fact. Part "so what do you expect" I have never said. Like most of the people here I am struggling to maybe become something better, starting with becoming fully operational 3d, less operational STS being moving to STO part as much as possible considering point on which I am in the cycle of learning. But I don't think that I can just simply by acknowledging that something is not good for me, immediately stop doing it, all of it, all at once, just like that. Can you?
Moreover, it is not known to you wether I believe (dream) that I have actually accomplished anything or not, and my post certainly do not contain information from which you can derive that opinion. So, you are assuming what I think or believe. Or dream.

I don't see the need to be passive-aggressive in your reply.

I think that's a good example of what could be considered a common dissociation, it triggers you into reaction without the real you (essence) being aware. (it could be other things as well, I just thought it was fitting here)
You are not whole, you are split up into different persons who will react differently according to the events around you.
Your sense and understanding of self, until you start working on yourself, is basically incomplete.

Also check the definiton of Buffers in the glossary

"In order to understand the interrelation of truth to falsehood in life a man must understand falsehood in himself, the constant incessant lies he tells to himself.
"These lies are created by 'buffers.' In order to destroy the lies in oneself as well as lies told unconsciously to others, 'buffers' must be destroyed. But then a man cannot live without 'buffers.' 'Buffers' automatically control a man's actions, words, thoughts, and feelings. If 'buffers' were destroyed all control would disappear. A man cannot exist without control even though it is only automatic control. Only a man who possesses will, that is, conscious control, can live without 'buffers.'"

So in a sense, yes we are still 3DSTS, trying to get better but don't hide behind it to excuse everything you do.

Maybe the first step would be to realize how bad you think you know yourself.
 

vinny

The Living Force
Nela said:
anart said:
True, but the problem is that video games are not only dissociative and addictive, they are literally mind programming. You seem to be engaging in black and white thinking in order to protect this 'sacred cow'.

It sounds as if you spend a lot of time dissociating. Argue for your limitations and you get to keep them.
Yes, I do spend a lot of time dissociating, tend to get totally immersed in whatever I do, like reading a book, thinking, especially if I have some problem or have to make a decision, I also daydream a lot and when I am in this state, I become unconscious of my surrounding. Is that it? After I have seen your post, I have been trying to find something about that on the forum, internet and Cass sites,but whatever I have found is more related to certain pathological treats that I have never experienced (I have never lost memory on what I have been thinking of or doing during dissociation, never experienced problem in my daily life, never used drugs or alcohol, been treated for any mental disorder and I have never been on any medications, nor have inclination to any of things mentioned.
I have found only this (so far)>

I think, again that you are arguing in order to preserve a sacred cow here, and most probably you don't know that you're doing it. You are trying to lump videogames in with book-reading as an equivalent experience, and really they are not at all. I'm also speaking from personal experience.

edit: I should probably add that, yes, reading can certainly be a dissociative activity, but I'm just pointing out that videogames are a whole 'nother ball game. been there.

It is totally your choice to play videogames, but you seem to feel you have to justify it. This is the subconscious' way of preventing the discomfort of facing the reality of the situation.

Nela said:
Can you please point me to some source where I can find more on dissociative state?

'The Myth of Sanity' by Martha Stout PhD is an excellent read about dissociative states and how/why they happen.

edit: Tigersoap beat me to it ;)
 

vinny

The Living Force
Nela said:
Sorry, but I'm a 3d STS being with all that it implies and that is not rationalization, it is a fact. Part "so what do you expect" I have never said. Like most of the people here I am struggling to maybe become something better, starting with becoming fully operational 3d, less operational STS being moving to STO part as much as possible considering point on which I am in the cycle of learning. But I don't think that I can just simply by acknowledging that something is not good for me, immediately stop doing it, all of it, all at once, just like that. Can you?

nobody can immediately see what they are and stop doing it. We are outrageously mechanical beings and it is almost entirely impossible to stop being so. However, it seems that there may be a chance, and if you wish to change anything at all, the first and vital stage is to be able to really see yourself for what you really are. This involves learning about how the psyche hides from 'itself', and how you (I/everyone) continuously lie to yourself, and why.
 

Sleepy

The Force is Strong With This One
Yes,

I am most probably passive aggressive psychopath and narcissistic.

Thank you for your help.
 

Mrs.Tigersoap

The Living Force
[quote author=nela]I am struggling to maybe become something better[/quote]

Well, then a good place to start would seem to be acknowledging that video games may be a problem for you. I agree with what has been said before: video games send you in a state of dissociation. How would you be able to stare at a screen for such a long time otherwise? Also, you must be so fast in your reactions, the intellectual centre takes a back seat and the motor centre takes over. You become purely mechanical. Hence the loud screams, insults and anger which very often come with the playing. That's why I don't consider that playing these games are about letting your inner child out, as you suggested. I think it lets out a side which is usually a bit more primitive and/or sinister, imo.
If you didn't dissociate while you play these games, you would probably find them boring: you wouldn't be "caught up" in it, engrossed and you would leave it alone. I speak for myself when I say that: my motor center usually does not take over and I have to think a lot about what I do with my fingers while I watch the screen. As a result, I never really 'enter' (in fact, dissociate) enough, and just finds it really boring and repetitive.
 
H

Hildegarda

Guest
Nela said:
But I believe that even when we grow up, we remain children deep inside and that childish playfull side needs to be expressed from time to time. And anything that can be used, can be abused as well.


child's play is first of all creative and learning-directed. Video-games are neither. Playing them, you are not nurturing yourself or reconnecting with the best of your childhood spirit, as you seem to believe. You are indulging in your irresponsibility and laziness. I agree with what you said, one can disappear into books in the same exact way, and there's nothing good about it either. I also see how this things still could happen, despite one's best intentions. But saying, "oh, well, it's just me poor 3D STS", isn't a way to treat this subject, not on this forum anyway.
 

vinny

The Living Force
Nela said:
Yes,

I am most probably passive aggressive psychopath and narcissistic.

Thank you for your help.

No one said you were a psychopath. Psychopaths are incapable of self-reflection, and so if you were one this conversation would be a total waste of time.

However, passive aggressive behaviour is common and includes, for example, the pity hook and the guilt hook.

I somehow feel like you missed the point?

and maybe we're getting just a little bit :offtopic: ? ... though it is interesting how regularly these same issues come up whenever the subject is videogames.
 

NormaRegula

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Nela said:
Yes,

I am most probably passive aggressive psychopath and narcissistic.

Thank you for your help.

Sigh. There is no need for sarcasm, Nela. No one has accused you of being a psychopath. As for being narcissistic, a whole lot of human are to some degree due to the way our society has been programmed. The works and words presented by forum members were meant to help you see your false "Is" and begin to understand that dreaming and pursuing dissociative behavior...such as addictive video gaming...may be a major distraction to finding ones true "I."

Perhaps, it would be best if you are sincere in discovering the truth, not only about this world, but also about yourself, to reread the forum rules and understand that one of this network's goals is to point out, or "mirror", someone's sacred cows and/or behavior. It's not done to be mean, it's done to help them cut through the b.s. they tell themselves and others so they can continue to dream and not Do.

When one posts on this forum, their words...and excuses...as to why they must continue to pursue distractions that are detrimental to the Work, being in a destructive, feeding relationship, or clinging to belief systems that have no basis in fact, can be figured out quickly by astute members. (On occasion, there are true communication misunderstandings that usually are resolved.) Sarcasm, pouting, or anger towards members who are just doing their job in pointing out hypocrisy and dishonesty in order to help someone become free of their lies so they can move forward on the path to STO, is a pretty good indication that one's buffers (self lies) to avoid objectivity have taken a direct hit.

No one member here is immune from this action. It's not pleasant. Yet, if you are willing to look in that mirror and confront the lies that you tell yourself and others, there is the possibility of waking up fully.
 
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